Snow Leopard killed

Cobra said:
o far no one has been killed by a lynx, there are a couple of reports of attacks by pet / captive Bob Cats( Lynx Rufus)
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You have to wonder what part being captive played in these attacks

Lynx, Snow Leopards and wolves all are relatively shy and will avoid human contact in the wild, but in captivity they are
in constant contact so to speak, does it desensitise them so they longer try to avoid and would be more likely to attack.
It has been proved before that escapees can catch and kill for themselves albeit domestic livestock, (I have no doubt
they could do the same to wild deer etc if left for a while) but you have to wonder whether they would shy away
from populated places as they would no longer see humans as a threat
 
Gremlin said:
You have to wonder what part being captive played in these attacks
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The problem is of course this is the USA we are talking about, are they Kits taken from the wild or generations of captive breeding?, knowing them probably the former.

Gremlin said:
Lynx, Snow Leopards and wolves all are relatively shy and will avoid human contact in the wild,
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Have you never seen life below zero? where they are always trying to get into someones camp to steal their food stash. And that includes Wolverines too.
Not forgetting the bears, these being the most opportunistic of the lot ( if the programme is to be believed)

Gremlin said:
but you have to wonder whether they would shy away
from populated places as they would no longer see humans as a threat
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As Mark said above ...
I know someone that makes a killing sorry fortune out of controlling urban foxes, in / from peoples back gardens.
They really have no fear these days.
 
Cobra said:
I have no problem with people supporting animal welfare charities, but PETA are fanatical hypocrites and that makes them dangerous.
Its always worth digging in the back ground if *you* are going to support any charity
https://www.petakillsanimals.com/proof-peta-kills/#petakills
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That's actually quite shocking and probably not something that many are aware of when it comes to PETA.

On that website there is a case discussed regarding a family's pet been taken and killed. The outcome of the court case was on the telegraphy website:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/17/peta-pays-family-50000-taking-euthanising-pet-chihuahua/
 
rob-nikon said:
and probably not something that many are aware of when it comes to PETA.
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I agree, but then some people only see what they want to see.
 
Cobra said:
From what I've been able to find out, so far no one has been killed by a lynx, there are a couple of reports of attacks by pet / captive Bob Cats( Lynx Rufus) ( it also seems they can keep them as pets in the USA)
A handful of attacks by wild ones, but when they were shot, all were suffering from Rabies !

European Lynx ( lynx lynx) I've found nothing to suggest that anyone has been mauled by one. Although they do attack and kill sheep in the wild.
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Chris cheers mate,thanks loads,appreciated.!!...................Ok here's the pondered deeply thought,back at ya...from what we know from your bit of research a bit more science based than a simple layman like me and taking into account more knowledge might be found than we know at this time.......

essentially and very simplistically) We have just seen the second case of a zoo shooting an animal because of a perceived danger to us humans. I'll ask everyone find me a case of a snow leopard or a european Lynx actually killing a human being :, These two animals have been killed simply because they are a big cat in the wrong place.again our doing. and our eprception that they will endanger our lives Am I wrong???


I would on every level accept the loss of a few sheep,to have the European Lynx here . Chris Whilst bears and wolves might be WAAAY too much !! An apex predator like the Lynx,would be a real asset,ecologically. It would enhance our eco system so much. .I don't think they would barely be noticed bar those sheep attacks( always going to happen). With a deer population booming and boar booming, it also would help with man's need to control which would always be best.

I can never see bears or wolves returning to these shores,I'd love it,but how could it happen. it;s just not doable. But a lynx................?..
give it a few years and our expansion rate tis all probably moot anyway:(


thanks kiddo I know it's not QED,but it certainly makes one think
 
Stuart Philpott said:
I would on every level accept the loss of a few sheep,to have the European Lynx here
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Try telling that to the hill farmers up here, trying to scratch out a living...

GC
 
Cobra said:
Have you never seen life below zero? where they are always trying to get into someones camp to steal their food stash. And that includes Wolverines too.
Not forgetting the bears, these being the most opportunistic of the lot ( if the programme is to be believed)
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Hardly a densely populated area but an escapee in this country would be put in a situation due to increase in built up
areas, I do wonder if they got past that whether they would just disappear into an open space ?

I deliberately left bears out of my post, they aren't anywhere near as shy as the others and are known to
enter urban areas, quite a pest in some places I believe

DemiLion said:
I think the best answer to that is the urban fox. Thirty plus years ago there were hardly any, and now...
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Mainly bought about by humans leaving food stuff laying about, used t see them often in the village I lived in,
the introduction of wheelie bins decreased their numbers
Where I am now, although on the edge of the town we rarely see them, but in the more central part you often see
bin bags left next to bins torn open and foxes around. Thankfully the local council now refuse to take anything not left
in bins, the downside being you see the bin bags dumped by the road instead !!
 
Oddly, we've seen more (semi) urban foxes since the introduction of wheelie bins. And (come to think of it!) fully urban ones. I'd put it down to an increased population since the banning of hunting and the maturation of the area we live in - it was relatively new when we moved in but is now (obviously!) some years more settled.
 
This wont go down well but I don't care. I'll keep it short...

I think anyone wanting to see bear, wolves or even lynx loose in the UK is an idiot.
 
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Cobra said:
Granted, there are zoos and then there are "zoos" the better zoos...
Many creatures in zoos are bred in captivity, they know no different, their life expectancy is greatly increased, they no longer have to hunt for food,
to survive. The females no longer have to hunt or forage for food, to produce milk, to feed the young.
Survival rate is very high in the off spring. If they should get sick or damaged some kind "thing" fixes them up.
They have no predators to hide from, no wild deer to hunt down, as some kind "thing" throws half a cow or indeed a bale of hay / bamboo and other vegetable matter, in their pens regularly as nature intended.

As for Snow leopards after several inquires and searches.
They all say pretty much the same as the one quoted.


Snow leopard expert Dr Tom McCarthy also says, “I can say with much certainty that humans in snow leopard habitat are in no danger from these big cats. Snow leopards have simply never been known to attack people. Even when they are cornered by herders who find them in their livestock corrals snow leopards do not try to attack. I have captured many of the cats, and even when they are in a snare, they do not act aggressively towards me as I work to sedate them – they just try to avoid me.”
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Is saddens me how the human race seem to believe we have ownership over the earth, all its contents and can play god with other animals lives. As someone has said the population is over 7 billion and is ever expanding with no control on growth. If any other species was expanding as we are, humans would initiate a cull.
A Snow leapord, a species with no history of attacking humans is shot dead. When a shark attacks a surfer by mistake in Australia, there is a cull of local sharks. Who are we to decide the oceans now belong to us?

I guess its natural instinct to protect the species...

No leader is ever going to suggest population control, but the world is a finite space, with finite resources, yet our population growth shows no signs of slowing down.

Not sure what the answer is but I cant imagine what the world is going to look like in another 200-300 years. I imagine there will be very little wild habitats and species left.

A bit off topic.
 
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benhben said:
Is saddens me how the human race seem to believe we have ownership over the earth, all its contents and can play god with other animals lives. As someone has said the population is over 7 billion and is ever expanding with no control on growth. If any other species was expanding as we are Humans would initiate a cull.
A Snow leapord, a species with no history of attacking humans is shot dead. When a shark attacks a surfer by mistake in Australia, there is a cull of local sharks. Who are we do decide the oceans now belong to us?

I guess its natural instinct to protect the species...

Not sure what the answer is but I cant imagine what the world is going to look like in another 200-300 years. I imagine there will be very little wild habitats and species left.
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It's sad but how would you or I feel if your/my (I don't have any) child was playing in the park while a frightened and potentially dangerous animal was loose? Perhaps you/I would rather see your/my child killed or scared for life rather than see the animal shot? After all thousands of children are born every day so if one child dies it's no great loss.

Yes it's sad that animals are caged, abused and killed and I too don't know what the answer is. We could ban zoos and wildlife parks and all research and trade in animals but I don't think that will cure every ill as where these animals live in the wild they'll continue to come into contact with humans and those humans will have their own children and livelihoods to worry about and I don't think that we in the comfortable west have the right to for example tell and Indian father he can't kill a leopard that's about to eat his baby girl. It's a hard life for some and us lucky ones have the luxury of worrying about stuff like this.
 
woof woof said:
It's sad but how would you or I feel if your/my (I don't have any) child was playing in the park while a frightened and potentially dangerous animal was loose? Perhaps you/I would rather see your/my child killed or scared for life rather than see the animal shot? After all thousands of children are born every day so if one child dies it's no great loss.

Yes it's sad that animals are caged, abused and killed and I too don't know what the answer is. We could ban zoos and wildlife parks and all research and trade in animals but I don't think that will cure every ill as where these animals live in the wild they'll continue to come into contact with humans and those humans will have their own children and livelihoods to worry about and I don't think that we in the comfortable west have the right to for example tell and Indian father he can't kill a leopard that's about to eat his baby girl. It's a hard life for some and us lucky ones have the luxury of worrying about stuff like this.
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TBH I would rather run the risk of a small child being hurt or attacked by a big cat that has no history of attacking humans than having it shot dead. Lets face it; there is far more chance of another human hurting that small child than this beautiful animal.

As the alpha species on the planet we are making a 'god awful' job of completely wrecking it very quickly! The human race really does disgust me at times :-(
 
woof woof said:
It's sad but how would you or I feel if your/my (I don't have any) child was playing in the park while a frightened and potentially dangerous animal was loose? Perhaps you/I would rather see your/my child killed or scared for life rather than see the animal shot? After all thousands of children are born every day so if one child dies it's no great loss.

Yes it's sad that animals are caged, abused and killed and I too don't know what the answer is. We could ban zoos and wildlife parks and all research and trade in animals but I don't think that will cure every ill as where these animals live in the wild they'll continue to come into contact with humans and those humans will have their own children and livelihoods to worry about and I don't think that we in the comfortable west have the right to for example tell and Indian father he can't kill a leopard that's about to eat his baby girl. It's a hard life for some and us lucky ones have the luxury of worrying about stuff like this.
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I completely understand your points. I would probably do the same were it one of my family members (although highly unlikely an animal would leave a zoo and immediately go on the hunt).

Its this view and natural instinct to protect our own kind, as you have described, coupled with our technology which is leading us to expand at an unstustainable rate.

I am not advocating killing off the human race btw, but at some point in future, some generation is going to have to tackle the issue of overpopulation and destruction of all earths natural environments...or look at a different way of living.
 
What most life on the planet needs fairly quickly is a human plague. (Not a plague of humans, it already has that).
 
woof woof said:
It's sad but how would you or I feel if your/my (I don't have any) child was playing in the park while a frightened and potentially dangerous animal was loose? Perhaps you/I would rather see your/my child killed or scared for life rather than see the animal shot? After all thousands of children are born every day so if one child dies it's no great loss.
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If that dangerous animal that MIGHT harm a human child is a human adult would we all be so quick to say yeah go ahead, shoot it?

Heres an scenario, theres a big continent called Africa where lots of children play with their mothers and fathers (most of the four legged variety). Many dangerous animals of the two legged variety go into the playgrounds there and kill, wheres your outrage with that?
 
This was an animal born and raised in a zoo.

Let's take a step away and think about people that go on safaris in Africa etc. sit in Landrovers taking picturesy of wild big cats
Now think what would happen if you tried this in an open Landrover in a safari park, any one fancy trying it /
 
Gremlin said:
This was an animal born and raised in a zoo.

Let's take a step away and think about people that go on safaris in Africa etc. sit in Landrovers taking picturesy of wild big cats
Now think what would happen if you tried this in an open Landrover in a safari park, any one fancy trying it /
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Isn't that part of the psychological behavioural change imparted on the animals. In Africa its hot and the predatory animals sit in shade to conserve energy to fulfil their natural instinct to hunt to eat to survive. In a Safari Park in Kidderminster is a bit cooler and the animals are handed their food. So when a Chelsea tractor arrives like a tin can full of yummy fresh meat of course they're going to be poised for the smorgasbord
 
jamesev said:
Isn't that part of the psychological behavioural change imparted on the animals. In Africa its hot and the predatory animals sit in shade to conserve energy to fulfil their natural instinct to hunt to eat to survive. In a Safari Park in Kidderminster is a bit cooler and the animals are handed their food. So when a Chelsea tractor arrives like a tin can full of yummy fresh meat of course they're going to be poised for the smorgasbord
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My point exactly, we aren't talking about a animal in it's natural habitat (y)
 
Gremlin said:
My point exactly, we aren't talking about a animal in it's natural habitat (y)
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So if we can't manage the impacts of taking an animal out of its natural habitat without killing it on a whim when WE fail in its protection then maybe we should leave it in its natural habitat and if we want the privileged of seeing it in its magnificence, go to it rather than make it come to us.
 
Gremlin said:
I do wonder if they got past that whether they would just disappear into an open space ?
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There are plenty of reported sightings of various big cats in rural areas :D
Actually a few years ago, I did see a few big cat tracks about 5 miles from me, in open and wooded farmland.
benhben said:
No leader is ever going to suggest population control,
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China had a one child policy until 2015, when they introduced a two child policy.
They are now thinking that should also be abolished, ( in 2020) due to an aging population and low birth rate ...
 
Stuart Philpott said:
Chris cheers mate,thanks loads,appreciated.!!...................Ok here's the pondered deeply thought,back at ya...from what we know from your bit of research a bit more science based than a simple layman like me and taking into account more knowledge might be found than we know at this time.......

essentially and very simplistically) We have just seen the second case of a zoo shooting an animal because of a perceived danger to us humans. I'll ask everyone find me a case of a snow leopard or a european Lynx actually killing a human being :, These two animals have been killed simply because they are a big cat in the wrong place.again our doing. and our eprception that they will endanger our lives Am I wrong???


I would on every level accept the loss of a few sheep,to have the European Lynx here . Chris Whilst bears and wolves might be WAAAY too much !! An apex predator like the Lynx,would be a real asset,ecologically. It would enhance our eco system so much. .I don't think they would barely be noticed bar those sheep attacks( always going to happen). With a deer population booming and boar booming, it also would help with man's need to control which would always be best.

I can never see bears or wolves returning to these shores,I'd love it,but how could it happen. it;s just not doable. But a lynx................?..
give it a few years and our expansion rate tis all probably moot anyway:(


thanks kiddo I know it's not QED,but it certainly makes one think
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Does cougars count?

https://www.google.dk/amp/s/amp.the...n-bikers-fatal-cougar-attack-washington-state
 
Or take advantage of horny ones!
 
Nod said:
Or take advantage of horny ones!
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Horny? I guess you are thinking of the Jackalope, they live in the same terrain as a cougar.
 
Urban dictionary's definition of a cougar is probably different from Webster's...
 
gcgraphs said:
Try telling that to the hill farmers up here, trying to scratch out a living...

GC
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G,I have farmed.well maybe better put cared for sheep,I've lambed a few been out in all weathers with the buggers ,so maybe I apprecaite the hardships of smaller farming more than most and within in that, is also the fact that I would probably understand the actual personal loss(more than the just a dinner aspect of farmer/ beastie relationship. .It's lovely of Mark ( Demilion ) to chime in with fixed compensation at good rate for the farmers. This has to be a given. I'd think that is what now happens to Mr Yak farmer when the subject of this thread has a munch of the wrong beast,well to man

.It's hard but good G . We can breed a few more sheep we can compensate farmers for loss:) What we are not terribly good at doing is being an apex predator. I wouldn't get all torn up at orphened baby boars or hundreds of deer underweight if true natural selection with a native apex pred was in place here. We do our best and there are some incredible stalkers also making a liviing the hard way,just like the farmers whom might also be effected.


Ok why are foxes in towns.??

...because they are incredibly adaptable animals ,very capable of finding a niche and exploiting it,sure. Could it possibly be that numbers without predation spiral in the countryside so they are all but driven there searching for food?

just musing:D

Oh, my, god.................. a hare with horns I need some piccies...anyone know of a guide......please:whistle: I learnt something there.... no knowledge of a jackaloup prior:cool:

Oh Chris I thought everyone ignored my beastie(five yard max I wasn't wrong:)) ,but slowly slowly the prints in the mud appear huh?.:LOL:

My neighbour came back swearing they heard a growling sound not far away, country folks 60years old brother and sister,"came home right away!!!!! ".ha local farmer was in the press with a kill.

It's lovely having these musings I think they would,just disappear as Ingrid says.............................. and have been a while now.,
 
soeren said:
Does cougars count?

https://www.google.dk/amp/s/amp.the...n-bikers-fatal-cougar-attack-washington-state
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Hey buddy,let's try again, this time there is a joke............Hi David:oops: :$:LOL::LOL:

Sorry Soeren,I just had to:D. Buddy no not that one they don't count. they can't come here Yes I'm aware of Puma and kills sad ,but very very VERY rare,when one considers there are a couple of folks living in America.

Soeren, big cats don't all prey on man only some, even consider it. Those species are really VERY few, but there's lots of big cats, I keep banging on because over and over PERCEIVED danger is being confused with a real danger. They are apex predators they have teeth and claw but they don't all consider to harm us.

But no they can't come here "bull in a china shop"

Soeren Lynx lynx has crept in here because recently there was, let us say, the saddest mess with this species similar to this thread. It is also our native big cat that would be here if we didn't clatter everything so vividly

stu
 
Stuart Philpott said:
Ok why are foxes in towns.??

...because they are incredibly adaptable animals ,very capable of finding a niche and exploiting it,sure. Could it possibly be that numbers without predation spiral in the countryside so they are all but driven there searching for food?

just musing:D
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Two different breeds in my view, countryside foxes are bigger then the ones I have seen in towns and far more stunning
Where I used to live I often walked the dogs very early, I'm talking just before sunrise, and have urban foxes being released
from a van, of course these would then move straight to the nearest village, you could tell they were the released ones, they
just couldn't survive in the countryside so went straight to the villages to scavenge, ultimately they would be shot
 
Cobra said:
I can sort you one out for £10K they are very hard to track you know!
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Not sure your guide would be any good. You referred to the jackalope whereas stu referred to a jackaloup which must be cross between a hare and a wolf :) . And then there are also the werehares .... ;)
 
sphexx said:
Not sure your guide would be any good. You referred to the jackalope whereas stu referred to a jackaloup
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They are similar, they are just a tad short sighted, they have a monocle type lens attached to one eye :D

sphexx said:
there are also the werehares .... ;)
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Ah yes I'd forgotten about those, nasty nocturnal things!
 
Cobra said:
They are similar, they are just a tad short sighted, they have a monocle type lens attached to one eye :D


Ah yes I'd forgotten about those, nasty nocturnal things!
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I met one in broad daylight a few years back. I was walking across farmland with hares going left right and centre and this chap started talking rather earnestly about werehares. Bonkers, I thought, but then I remembered his name was John Crossfield ... and I thought hang on a minute ... what name would a werehare go under that would be more appropriate than John (ie Jack) Crossfield :( ?
 
Gremlin said:
Two different breeds in my view, countryside foxes are bigger then the ones I have seen in towns and far more stunning
Where I used to live I often walked the dogs very early, I'm talking just before sunrise, and have urban foxes being released
from a van, of course these would then move straight to the nearest village, you could tell they were the released ones, they
just couldn't survive in the countryside so went straight to the villages to scavenge, ultimately they would be shot
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That's really interesting Ingrid,I'm a country boy I nuffin of an urban fox. I would actually have expected urban to be bigger,I have no reason why:) Not every one would see this Ingrid,you'ld have to be like you seeing both frequently enough to have an awareness and actually "SEE" this. I don't doubt you at all ,I'm so sure I see these in hares,nuances of size ,also within a species,but one has to stare at a few damn hard before one starts to maybe realise

really interesting that,thank you!!

sphexx said:
Not sure your guide would be any good. You referred to the jackalope whereas stu referred to a jackaloup which must be cross between a hare and a wolf :) . And then there are also the werehares .... ;)
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Yeah, but that's because I'm braindead Rich and can't spell or even copy what's under me nose. .it is funny:LOL: I was actually quite careful and still invented something else;)

Chris I battered myself senseless,to grab me tools, they would buy your guide. But mate,me tools:eek:............................OK link me his or her portfolio,actually I better have both huh :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:

The picture above (linked by Marc) is of a guy that knows a bit.....please god folks listen to him,he isn't only a national treasure. Please god those important folks listened too !!

Rich your last post, is so far over my head ,its stratospheric:D:ROFLMAO:.. hey ho

Cheers lads and lasses life's harsh at the mo coupled also with this thread and it's topics. They are brutally sad, but I'v just smiled and learnt a bit from Ingrid while trying to reply which is lovely

mad sods !!:D
 
Cobra said:
Ah yes I'd forgotten about those, nasty nocturnal things!
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Werehares! :rolleyes: You daft lot, I've never heard anything as bloody daft in my life... any countryman worth his salt knows that a hare behaving strangely is bound to be a witch.
 
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Mr Badger said:
Werehares! :rolleyes: You daft lot, I've never heard anything as bloody daft in my life... any countryman worth his salt knows that a hare behaving strangely is bound to be a witch.
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Nearly right, puss (ie hare) is a witches familiar rather than a witch itself ;)
 
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