Toxicity in Photography communities

There is a certain amusing irony.

Different fan forums often have a character that reflects the hobby that the forum is about. Bass guitar forums are usually technical with a lot of the membership being depressed and into cross-dressing. Mountain biking forums tend to be a bit hairy-chested and fixate on a particular female pop star and what tyres to use. Photography forums seem to examine every statement a person makes for minor flaws an inconsistencies, often ignoring that some statements are figures of speech etc and being un-necessarily blunt.

It's all part of who we are.
 
Hmm... not everybody on here is blunt - that's bit of a generalisation - and some of the most reflective people I know are photographers -but not all . It is disappointing when a thread is derailed like this as it could have lead to some interesting debate over the nature of photography and wherever that might lead. Ah, well. C'est la vie.
 
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Hmm... not everybody on here is blunt - that's bit of a generalisation - and some of the most reflective people I know are photographers -but not all . It is disappointing when a thread is derailed like this as it could have lead to some interesting debate over the nature of photography and wherever that might lead. Ah, well. C'est la vie.
This is nothing compared to what happens to a thread that tries to discuss art within photography. :LOL:
 
Quite right. Another thread ruined by childish bickering.

Baloo, if someone interprets your comments incorrectly, then instead of getting all huffed up, why not politely state "There's a bit of misunderstanding here, maybe I worded it poorly.... what I meant was ....."
I never got huffed up I stayed nice and calm wondering how long the insults would take, not long was the answer!
 
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This is nothing compared to what happens to a thread that tries to discuss art within photography. :LOL:

And that's really sad, because if we could discuss it without people trying to belittle what others think and do (on both sides) then it might be useful. Perhaps it's due the the fairly personal nature of our pictures that makes individuals more vulnerable and likely to respond to apparent rudeness they would otherwise ignore.

I've been watching some of the political threads too, and it's amazing how, when there could be an attempt to find common ground, key individuals will seemingly deliberately find an exploitable hole in a statement made by another member and then mine it for all the pain they can extract. I've been part of a lot of forums over the last 20 years, but I've never seen this kind of behaviour anywhere else between regular and long-standing forum members.
 
Perhaps you could tell us about some of the other forums! Recommendations, I mean.
 
And that's really sad, because if we could discuss it without people trying to belittle what others think and do (on both sides) then it might be useful. Perhaps it's due the the fairly personal nature of our pictures that makes individuals more vulnerable and likely to respond to apparent rudeness they would otherwise ignore.

Art tends to polarise people. As do politics and religion - which are banned on some forums.

I've been watching some of the political threads too, and it's amazing how, when there could be an attempt to find common ground, key individuals will seemingly deliberately find an exploitable hole in a statement made by another member and then mine it for all the pain they can extract. I've been part of a lot of forums over the last 20 years, but I've never seen this kind of behaviour anywhere else between regular and long-standing forum members.
I don't venture into the out of focus area here but I doubt it's as vicious as the politics section of a fishing forum I frequent. Even in the fishing sections it can get nasty!
 
And that's really sad, because if we could discuss it without people trying to belittle what others think and do (on both sides) then it might be useful. Perhaps it's due the the fairly personal nature of our pictures that makes individuals more vulnerable and likely to respond to apparent rudeness they would otherwise ignore.

I've been watching some of the political threads too, and it's amazing how, when there could be an attempt to find common ground, key individuals will seemingly deliberately find an exploitable hole in a statement made by another member and then mine it for all the pain they can extract. I've been part of a lot of forums over the last 20 years, but I've never seen this kind of behaviour anywhere else between regular and long-standing forum members.

You should check out some of the football forums. Threads on politics generally descend into death threats.
 
I have been trying to stick to some simple rules,
Do not put words in other peoples mouths, if you want clarification ask for it.
Do not tell others how they are feeling (moderators please note)
Do not create strawmen to get your point across.
Do not personalise it, post not poster.
Do not use insults.
I would of thought that was quite simple.
I have been guilty of all of the above in the past.
 
You should check out some of the football forums. Threads on politics generally descend into death threats.

There was a music forum based around an online radio station in the US (now closed). At the time of the presidential election between Bush and Obama I went through my account there to remove any possible contact information or way that I could be traced in the UK because of the behaviour of some of the people.

Curiously and in complete contrast, Bikemagic (MTB forum, still going I think) was almost entirely good-natured between around 98/99 to 2007ish when I stopped riding. There are people I've known from the late 90s who are still friends, and I recall only a single serious falling out due to one member pretending to be a girl to a young, single and not terribly bright chap, who became very upset when he realised he'd been sending very personal pictures to the wrong person. :oops: :$

Harmony Central used to be privately owned, and before being acquired by Guitar Centre was mostly 'self-policing'. The forum was absolutely huge, so busy that often it was more like a chatroom than typical forum, and that made meaningful moderation very very retrospective. Generally extremely good natured, generous and fun (we built a strat from donated parts shipped from all over the world for a Romanian girl who couldn't afford anything) sometimes guys would either come to shill their wares or occasionally have cheated another forumite, and would be 'ejected by the community'. There were threats of lawsuits from the guy who ran Fabamps and one or 2 others. There were also some real rock-star primadonnas, who would get upset wth anything less than a bit of brown-nosing, but out of more than 100,000 active members there was hardly any trouble.

The place is a ghost town now, made 'family friendly' by the requirements of the new owners. :banghead: Some of the key music forums (like The Fretboard) were started by refugees from HC.

TBH many forums are dead these days, killed by Bacefook. This is the most active UK photo forum I've found so far.
 
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As do politics and religion - which are banned on some forums.

used to be banned on here as well - worst decision that's been made since I joined was when that rule was relaxed. Problem is, genie's now out of the bottle and I already know who the despicable twatts on here are, so I can't un-know it and behave the same towards them as I do to proper human beings. And sadly, the boss won't let me just ban them all wholesale :(
 
As do politics and religion - which are banned on some forums.

There's a forum from which I know a few other members are also here, that banned politics and religion but still permitted destructively negative postings against faiths while objecting to positive descriptions or attempts at explanation. Many of the guys were great, but the atmosphere was toxic, and I made a positive choice to leave. I've visited a couple of times in the last 3-4 years, and nothing has changed. Actually that forum is also unique in that it's the only forum I've come across where a gay person claimed they were discrimiated against because of their sexual orientation. How do you know someone is gay on a forum unless they keep reminding you?
 
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The Internet inspired a generation of keyboard warriors who are "safe" behind their monitors.

If some of the comments on here (and other forums) were articulated in a pub face to face (like we used to do before the Internet) there'd be a ruck.

Everyone should just chill out a bit. It's only a hobby (for a large number on here).
 
There was a music forum based around an online radio station in the US (now closed). At the time of the presidential election between Bush and Obama I went through my account there to remove any possible contact information or way that I could be traced in the UK because of the behaviour of some of the people.

Curiously and in complete contrast, Bikemagic (MTB forum, still going I think) was almost entirely good-natured between around 98/99 to 2007ish when I stopped riding. There are people I've known from the late 90s who are still friends, and I recall only a single serious falling out due to one member pretending to be a girl to a young, single and not terribly bright chap, who became very upset when he realised he'd been sending very personal pictures to the wrong person. :oops: :$

Harmony Central used to be privately owned, and before being acquired by Guitar Centre was mostly 'self-policing'. The forum was absolutely huge, so busy that often it was more like a chatroom than typical forum, and that made meaningful moderation very very retrospective. Generally extremely good natured, generous and fun (we built a strat from donated parts shipped from all over the world for a Romanian girl who couldn't afford anything) sometimes guys would either come to shill their wares or occasionally have cheated another forumite, and would be 'ejected by the community'. There were threats of lawsuits from the guy who ran Fabamps and one or 2 others. There were also some real rock-star primadonnas, who would get upset wth anything less than a bit of brown-nosing, but out of more than 100,000 active members there was hardly any trouble.

The place is a ghost town now, made 'family friendly' by the requirements of the new owners. :banghead: Some of the key music forums (like The Fretboard) were started by refugees from HC.

TBH many forums are dead these days, killed by Bacefook. This is the most active UK photo forum I've found so far.

Snap. I spent a lot of time on "HC Electric guitar" in the day. It was a great place to hang out and was very busy. As you say they sanitised the life out of it and effectively killed it. Gibson own it now. I'm still a member but rarely look in.
A lot moved over to Mark Weins place and some (incl me) to a private Facebook group. Happy days.
 
The Internet inspired a generation of keyboard warriors who are "safe" behind their monitors.

If some of the comments on here (and other forums) were articulated in a pub face to face (like we used to do before the Internet) there'd be a ruck.

Everyone should just chill out a bit. It's only a hobby (for a large number on here).
Exactly. People just act completely differently on the internet. Only last week I had someone issuing threats on our village Facebook group and I play golf with his dad! He was very sheepish when I next saw him.
It's a strange phenomenon.
 
Hey Brian, who were you on HC? I was heavily active from 2000-2009/10ish before MaziBee banned me for a week for using a word he didn't like, and I realised how much time had suddenly been released! I had the same handle there, with Ogri as an avatar.
 
Trolling and arguing aside, I'm more and more seeing very valid arguments coming up where inexperienced by think-they-know-it-all 'photographers' make posts and statements which are fundamentally wrong, but admittedly repeated so often in the circle of ignorance that is the internet,, that many inexperienced photographers think its right.

The "Lightroom doesn't work with Fuji" is the one I see far too often.... It's completely wrong, as many here will agree, but I still see it on forums and FB groups.
 
I bet none of you understand the importance of always using a protective UV filter!
 
Has this been orchestrated? Is it a sketch? The first responses and subsequent squabbling are wonderfully indicative. Ho ho... forum people! (Well some people).
 
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Oh Toni, you didn't use the F word did you? (Fender!). :D ;)

It was regarding a Fender instrument, using an abbreviation of the name Japanese. [shrug] Nothing was meant by it, and a number of Japanese-heritage posters came along to say they didn't care, but he couldn't back down and I was happy to go in the end.
 
I already know who the despicable twatts on here are, so I can't un-know it and behave the same towards them as I do to proper human beings. And sadly, the boss won't let me just ban them all wholesale :(

That's probably the main reason I never go near the out of focus area(s). Once you know that someone you thought was reasonable has really obnoxious views, it is hard to not see them in a new light. It's not just that I might disagree with them ("if two people think exactly the same, only one of them is doing the thinking"), but rather that as I found on another (photo) forum some people are aggressively militant against sincerely held views that differ from their own. Actually, that's not quite what I mean - to react against views you consider to be wrong is OK (provided you can give a reasoned justification); it's when people of different views are regularly disparaged because of their views - the attacks are directed to the person and not the opinion.
 
Hey Brian, who were you on HC? I was heavily active from 2000-2009/10ish before MaziBee banned me for a week for using a word he didn't like, and I realised how much time had suddenly been released! I had the same handle there, with Ogri as an avatar.
I was "knotty" my avatar was an England flag, following my ban and the new boss (Dendy Jarret) reinstating me I changed it to a cartoon devil. Funnily my ban started with a story about me buying a 20 year old Fender that had never been played and me describing it with the Japanese abbreviation. The arguement escalated and that was it.
I also had many major jousts with a guy who was a Jaguar expert. I even spoofed a copy of his account and copied his avatar so people thought it was him posting. Fortunately the members thought it was hilarious and saved my bacon. The one I spoofed was Django. I've still got a "Django" account!
I thought I recognised your name. Small world.
 
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It was regarding a Fender instrument, using an abbreviation of the name Japanese. [shrug] Nothing was meant by it, and a number of Japanese-heritage posters came along to say they didn't care, but he couldn't back down and I was happy to go in the end.
Sorry to hear that, sounds like it probably did you a favour in the long run though. I have a Japanese Fender Strat that I bought cheap off eBay years ago, it was a 50s/60s reissue sunburst but in quite a worn state, complete with cigarette burns on the head from where people had wedged them behind the strings while playing (in the days when you could smoke on stage!).

It suited me as I wanted a 'player' not a collectors item, so I decided to customise it with a nod towards Stevie Ray Vaughan's 'Number one' Strat (Custom Shop Texas Special pickups, jumbo frets, 12 gauge strings, and black scratch plate with aged-white accessories). I didn't go as far as fitting a left hand bridge though! It plays and sounds nice, just wish I could play it like he did!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUXnWyz1mk4
 
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used to be banned on here as well - worst decision that's been made since I joined was when that rule was relaxed. Problem is, genie's now out of the bottle and I already know who the despicable twatts on here are, so I can't un-know it and behave the same towards them as I do to proper human beings. And sadly, the boss won't let me just ban them all wholesale :(


Thank God for that. I quite like it here occasionally!

I totally agree with you about politics though. That Hot Topic forum should be exploded, along with half of its regular contributors.
 
I was "knotty" my avatar was an England flag, following my ban and the new boss (Dendy Jarret) reinstating me I changed it to a cartoon devil. Funnily my ban started with a story about me buying a 20 year old Fender that had never been played and me describing it with the Japanese abbreviation. The arguement escalated and that was it.
I also had many major jousts with a guy who was a Jaguar expert. I even spoofed a copy of his account and copied his avatar so people thought it was him posting. Fortunately the members thought it was hilarious and saved my bacon. The one I spoofed was Django. I've still got a "Django" account!
I thought I recognised your name. Small world.

Yes, I DO remember you. Small world indeed, although I guess the internet was a very small world 15 years ago when computers were still expensive and required a certain level of arcane knowledge to use on the www. Django I remember too, though virtually nothing about him (I did something similar on Bikemagic to a guy who called himself Dan Dirtyrider - at one stage there were 5 or 6 different Dan accounts). Dendy was really a drummer, and seemed to have been employed to try to coax people back and explain why the tram-smash was OK really. I did go back a bit, to EG, pedals and amps forums. Many of the serious guys had disappeared by then, Krashpad appeared occasionally, Telephant not so much, JJ Pistols went walkabouts and never returned, Charles Saar Murray & Metalhead - the beardy punk guy who lived at Pevensey - formed a band and disappeared. There's loads of guys I'm half-remembering affectionately, Andy Timmons IIRC, allsorts. I still Miss Olaf Krampe and Peter Diezel from the amp forum - Olaf had some really cool mods for the Madamp A15 we both built.

I think Andrew Coholic is still building guitars and amps. There was the father of Dustin - the teenager with cancer - who was buddies at one stage, but his marriage came to bits badly & he moved on after Dustin recovered. You might remember mr5150 - he and Longhair had a studio in Liverpool docks, and held an 'ampfest' there - I still have Al Groves amp here that I brought home to try to fix, then lost contact. Still have an ancient MIJ strat body and neck that I PX'd with Loobs (Ben) for one of the first Dano Cool Cat vibe pedals in the UK, and I still have the Ceriatone 18 Watt clone that I got from Farmer Geddon. Suddenly I feel like I'm 30 something again instead of 57.

Ah nuts - I had to go back. Good to see Phil O'K is still going, Daddymack, VerneAndru, Deepend, Ratae Coritanorum (as was) t_e_l_e, Freeman Keller (still building) Danacoustic, RaVenCAD, Chordite, gardo, mrbrown49 and GAS Man.

Out of interest, were you around for the Zakk Wylde/Orange county choppers/Epiphone Les Paul guitar scam? That was the most surreal event in online forum history, EVAH. ;)

That was the best forum I've ever enjoyed, though perhaps not the kindest if you were an arse. Nuts - I'm ill and should be rehearsing for a Rock Cliche gig on Tuesday.

(y)

I have a Japanese Fender Strat that I bought cheap off eBay years ago, it was a 50s/60s reissue sunburst but in quite a worn state, complete with cigarette burns on the head from where people had wedged them behind the strings while playing (in the days when you could smoke on stage!).

It's still number 1 - bought new in late '89 from Rockbottom in Croydon (I spent half a day working through their wall of strats, and this was favourite) though sadly needs a refret now, and it's a maple fingerboard. :( She's quite battered, which isn't surprising for a well-used 30YO guitar


I'm supposed to be looking at a camera upgrade. Now I want a dobro. :p
 
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Another massive generalisation, but I find 'aviation enthusiasts' make most other forums/groups/hobbies seem like the most pleasant and well meaning pursuits on earth. I follow a lovely little aircraft museum on social media as my son absolutely adores the place, they occassionally share posts from other pages about flypasts, restorations and so on. Some of the comments threads on those pages make me wince, and without fail they blow up over the smallest most inconsequntial detail.

Sadly I don't think it's limited to online, I've been to arrivals day at RIAT and it was one of the most soul destroying experiences of my life, any sense of courtesy or decency is non existent.
 
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Another massive generalisation, but I find 'aviation enthusiasts' make most other forums/groups/hobbies seem like the most pleasant and well meaning pursuits on earth. I follow a lovely little aircraft museum on social media as my son absolutely adores the place, they occassionally share posts from other pages about flypasts, restorations and so on. Some of the comments threads on those pages make me wince, and without fail they blow up over the smallest most inconsequntial detail.

Sadly I don't think it's limited to online, I've been to arrivals day at RIAT and it was one of the most soul destroying experiences of my life, any sense of courtesy or decency is non existent.

That's a shame - reminds me of the old joke:

How can you know if there's a pilot at a party?

He'll tell you.
 
I've just come off a motorhome forum I've belonged to for several years. The technical and leisure sections were excellent but the general discussion areas were so bad I felt like I was in a large room full of elderly fascists.
Trouble was I was always drawn to them as I like political discussion but the "what's the country come to and lets shoot them" brigade seemed in the majority.
 
I've just come off a motorhome forum I've belonged to for several years. The technical and leisure sections were excellent but the general discussion areas were so bad I felt like I was in a large room full of elderly fascists.
Trouble was I was always drawn to them as I like political discussion but the "what's the country come to and lets shoot them" brigade seemed in the majority.
Maybe they are fascists. That could explain why they drive around in 'tanks' ! :)
 
Maybe that's just how society has developed online, especially since the internet is now full of ordinary people (see some of my reminiscing above).

*edit* I rather suspect it's partly down to the change from modern to post-modern thinking, where relativism is now much more normal and there's a perception that if it's true for you then it's true. I just found myself getting cross in another thread where someone suggested what I said was only opinion, when instead there's plenty of data to support my understanding. The change has brought much greater diversity and you can always find someone else who will support your viewpoint, however odd, but fewer people are likely to step back and suggest "well, let's look at the evidence, shall we?".
 
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Art tends to polarise people. As do politics and religion - which are banned on some forums.


I don't venture into the out of focus area here but I doubt it's as vicious as the politics section of a fishing forum I frequent. Even in the fishing sections it can get nasty!
You should check out some of the football forums. Threads on politics generally descend into death threats.


I used to frequent the fishing forum concerned, and also a football forum.
Anglers are supposed to be calm and reflective, and football fans aggressive and quick-tempered...

My experience of those two forums suggest the sterotypes are miles off from reality! Even the religion and poiltics discussions on the football forum almost never got as heated as the ones on the fishing one.
 
The thing I find most infuriating about forum chat is, when I'm right about something and then someone argues the toss.
I can't recall the last time I was wrong and I defy anyone to prove otherwise.
 
All you guys are missing a trick here, you need to get over to a Bonsai forum,
its coming up to re potting season, the arguments about which is the best "soil" mix is almost just outside of being polite
:D

And I've never seen a religious or political argument on the couple that I frequent.
 
The thing I find most infuriating about forum chat is, when I'm right about something and then someone argues the toss.
I can't recall the last time I was wrong and I defy anyone to prove otherwise.

Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do
 
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