Never mess with electricity,

Tringa

Tringa

Numpty of the Day'
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Dave
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Yes
even when it seems safe.

Realspeed's thread about ceiling lights and the other postings there reminded me of a close shave I had many years ago.

We had moved into a new house and I found a vertical piece of rusting metal conduit fixed to a wall in a bedroom. Out of the top were two cloth covered wires(red and black) with the copper exposed. I used my testing screwdriver and was relieved to find they were dead. After using the screwdriver I carefully touched them together - no effect and even got hold of copper in them. They were absolutely dead.

As the wires were dead I thought the easiest way of removing the conduit was to saw through it just below floor level, so set to work.

What I did not know and had not thought about was there was another wire in the conduit that did not project out of the top, and it was live - sparks. bang, burnt notch on the hacksaw blade. I was lucky and did not get a shock, well not an electrical one anyway, but it made me a lot more wary than I was about anything eletrical.

I'd love to know how a live wire got to left half way down a bit of conduit.

Dave
 
I started out as an electrician and I've had a few shocks in my time and I've managed to avoid a few too by checking and checking again even when told what's what by someone else as it's my life on the line.

Faced with your mystery conduit and wires I'd have done further investigation, for example finding the other end might have been a good idea :D
 
I cut through what I thought was a lighting cable in the loft, I had removed the fuse (so a few years ago) as my wife was cooking and needed the leccy on. Turned out it was the cable to the night storage heaters (I can hear Alan screaming from here), fortunately the scissors I used had insulated handles, yes scissors not wire cutters. sorry Alan I was very young and skint.
So, this flu from China, bring it on.
 
Even being careful I've had my share of shocks.

The worst was probably when I was climbing up the side of a metal cage housing machinery, H&S was a bit lax in those days, I felt myself slipping so put my right hand out and grabbed something. Unfortunately my had went straight into an open supply box and I grabbed a busbar. I wondered why my left had was quickly pulsing and then why there was a funny taste in my mouth as my saliva boiled. I realised what was happening and managed to let go and fell to the ground.

I know we all DIY sometimes but electrical stuff does need great care and respect.
 
Many many years ago when I was very young, I got a big lesson never to play with electrical things as I was poking a screwdriver in a socket in my bedroom when Bang and a bright orange sent me flying blowing everything in the family home. Mum and Dad were well angry with me, and the electrician who came out to repair it all said I was very lucky not to be killed as the shock it gave me was so high, and for the next week my vision was a bright orange colour. Since then I always get the experts out as that was a big lesson taught to me.
 
Two stories:

7 or 8 year old me decides to explore sockets in a bit more detail. The top pin of a plug is larger. Why? Because when it goes into the top hole, it lifts some plastic covering the bottom holes. I tried to poke something in there (think it was a lego piece) and got electrocuted. It was a short sharp shock. The sort that should have stopped me messing about with electricity. Obviously it didn't otherwise there wouldn't be a second story.

The boiler used to live in my bedroom in the airing cupboard. By the time I was 10, it was decommission and removed. Except they'd left the isolating switch in place. Given the size of it, I wanted to get rid of it and mistakenly thought it was dead. Cue me cutting the wire with some insulated pliers. Sparks and bang but no shock.

Now if I get involved with electricity, I test the wire with a beeping wand to check it's live, go to the fuse box and switch everything off, recheck that it's dead and then carry on.
 
I was a bit wary when I put security lights up, but I made sure I turned off the mains before hand.
 
A friend of mine put on a spectacular exhibition in the mid-1960s of why you should always discharge capacitors before playing about near them. He was an apprentice electronics engineer and was attempting to repair a TV. There was a sudden bang and he was flung across the room (about 15 feet or so). I thought I was going to get the opportunity to practice my first aid but he opened his eyes, held up his hand to inspect his burnt finger tips and muttered the immortal phrase: "Oh bugger"! :LOL:
 
When I was about 8 years old or so I went to a friend's house and he had a Scalextric set. Sadly they weren't hot on proper health and safety and having proper plugs on everything.

It didnt have a plug on it, just two bare wires poking out of the end, and what they used to do with stuff was just poke them in a socket and plug another appliance in over the top to wedge the wires in.
It was the 80's and I was young and impressionable, I wanted to play so I gave it a try.

Put the wires in the socket, pushed the plug on top and went to hit it with the back of my hand a bit to force it into the socket.

The back fell off just at the wrong time and I hit an open plug, ended up on the other side of the room wondering what the hell just happened.

Never said anything to his mum or mine but I realise now how serious that could have been!
 
Many years ago I needed to shorten the cable on a 4 way extension lead. Couldn’t be bothered going out to the shed to get my cutters so decided to use a carving knife instead. It was when I started slicing through the cable that I very quickly realised that, due to the loud bang, I’d also not bothered to unplug said extension lead from the mains. Good job the knife had a plastic handle.
The then girlfriend demanded documentary evidence of my Electrical and Electronic Engineering Degree [emoji16]
Also, the knife went on to deliver many years of service but always retained the gap where the bit of metal got blown out......
 
Things I have seen:
Bell wire used to supply a 13a socket.
External light earthed by wrapping the earth wire around a screw in the brickwork.
Cooker switch disconnected and removed but the cable was still live, apparently the wall steamed when it was plastered
Immersion heater fused connector removed and the cable cut flush to the wall - still live
Extention leads permanantly fixed so they could have sockets in the bathroom.
Lots of appliance leads with cracked or missing insulation
Appliance leads that have to held a certain way to work
Horrible 3 way plug adaptors with another adaptor plugged in to that.
and lots more!
When I worked on 11kv switchgear I used to check the tester with a test set, use the tester to ensure the supply was dead, re-test the tester, use an earthing rod (a bit like a javelin with a metal tip which had a cable connected to a known earth teminal) to touch the supply and finally connect the supply terminal to the earth connector, and I was still nervous about actually touching anything with my hands.
In the old days at work you could isolate something by removing the fuse and keeping it with you, nowadays with MCBs anyone can just come along and flip it back on
 
I once knew a guy who repaired CRT monitors/TVs. He used to build a wall of cardboard boxes along the back wall of his workshop, so when an HT circuit bit him, he'd have something soft to land in after he flew across the room.

The mains powered Xmas tree lights I grew up with had a B22 bayonet plug on the end, that went into a table lamp. The lamp had a non-standard BS73 two-pin plug, that went in to the wall via an unfused BS1363 adapter, so the only thing protecting the tree lights was the wire ring main fuse...
Electro.gif
I still have the tree, but not the lights (and the table lamp got rewired).
 
The xmas lights remind me of my BiL. After xmas one year he bought some cheap lights in a B&Q oddments sale. In his words "they had a funny little plug on the end so I cut it off and put on a 13a plug" in the words of my niece "Daddy plugged it in and all the light went poof, it was pretty, but they don't work now"
Moral - Do not plug low voltage lights directly into the mains
 
I have seen nails used as fuses in old style consumer boxes.
Much worse though when I had dealings supervising civils contractors, hitting underground mains cables isn't good.
 
I remember a computer shop back in the '90's got in some s*** because their supplier sent them some US market flat-bed scanners.
When customers brought them back, waving the NEMA 110v lead, the helpful salesman swapped those for a IEC-C13 > BS1363 lead.
The customers then went to trading standards to complain about the resulting explosions and fires.
 
woof woof said:
Faced with your mystery conduit and wires I'd have done further investigation, for example finding the other end might have been a good idea :D
Click to expand...

I did and eventually traced it to a junction box under the landing floor. The other two cables in the conduit went there too, but they had been disconnected and were lying close the the box but connected to nothing. I don't know why the live one was still connected in the junction box or why it ended half way up the conduit and so was invisible - until I tried to cut through it.

Dave
 
tijuana taxi said:
Much worse though when I had dealings supervising civils contractors, hitting underground mains cables isn't good.
Click to expand...

few years back I was working on a job at BAE Broughton, watched the civils contractor dig the trench for the HM ring extension, fill it back in after the cables had been laid, and about a week later accidentally dig it up. Same JCB driver, same JCB, thankfully the new ring wasn't live so the bucket lived to tell the tale
 
Some of the Oil & Gas projects I have worked on have been built oversees and we have had pictures from site showing where someone had dug up a whopping great cable with JCB Bucket or similar. On occasions if lucky there's just been a bit of a hole, on other less fortunate occasions, no sign of JCB bucket or driver, except for an even bigger hole.
 
Tori_T said:
I remember a computer shop back in the '90's got in some s*** because their supplier sent them some US market flat-bed scanners.
When customers brought them back, waving the NEMA 110v lead, the helpful salesman swapped those for a IEC-C13 > BS1363 lead.
The customers then went to trading standards to complain about the resulting explosions and fires.
Click to expand...
That reminded me of a Fools and Horses episode.
 
I do the odd bit of DIY electrical work but I am not a numpty and understand how a ring main is wired. However although I have a modern up to date consumer box and could isolate the circuit I am messing with I always turn the mains off fully !.

I do have a current inspection certificate btw ;)
 
A friend of mine bought a house with very suspect electrics. I had a sparky’s ticket back then and offered to check it all over. I was already a bit suspicious when the owner said the lights went dim when she put the kettle on. :confused: Turns out somebody had removed the 1930s 2 amp 2 pin light sockets and simply replaced them with 2 gang 13 amp sockets. Further investigation revealed that although there was a nice shiny new fuse box with MCB’s and RCD, all the wiring was the old original cloth covered wiring.
 
I heard about a guy who rewired his entire house with 5amp trailing flex because the DIY store had rolls of that on clearance.
After the cooker melted the insulation and tripped the circuit, he complained to his sparky mate about the s*** cable the store sold him.

Then there was the guy who decided to tile the wall behind the units of his new house's fitted kitchen. He found the extra sockets and concealed lighting had been connected up by zig-zagging twin-and-earth across the wall from the original plug point, hammering it into the plaster, and papering over it.
 
As a retired Electrician had a few shocks, but my earliest memory as an apprentice was the Electrician that could hold both L & N cables and then get me to hold a tester
to the back of his hand, and then invited you to do the same. OUCH!!
 
stryvya said:
As a retired Electrician had a few shocks, but my earliest memory as an apprentice was the Electrician that could hold both L & N cables and then get me to hold a tester to the back of his hand, and then invited you to do the same. OUCH!!
Click to expand...
There's a big poster on the wall of the power room at work about how to deal with your live electrician by poking him with the end of a broom handle, while standing on a book. Poke 2.gif
 
I'm quite happy doing mains wiring, part P be damned, as the physics involved is at the level they teach 13 year olds in school, it is easy to do safely. I do isolate first and check it's isolated before doing any work, and the work I do is always done to BS7671 even though I'm not an electrician.

I've heard about, and found and fixed, some dreadful bodges in household wiring.
 
Tori_T said:
There's a big poster on the wall of the power room at work about how to deal with your live electrician by poking him with the end of a broom handle, while standing on a book. View attachment 267104
Click to expand...
What's the book "Electricity for Dummies" :)
 
onomatopoeia said:
I'm quite happy doing mains wiring, part P be damned, as the physics involved is at the level they teach 13 year olds in school, it is easy to do safely. I do isolate first and check it's isolated before doing any work, and the work I do is always done to BS7671 even though I'm not an electrician.

I've heard about, and found and fixed, some dreadful bodges in household wiring.
Click to expand...

Not aimed at you, Mark as it's clear you know what you're dolng..ie to BS7671 .In my opinion, re the average Jo, electrical problems are the domain of electricians. Mess up some plumbing and the worst that can happen is a leak, mess up on electrics and you may not live to tell the tale.

Re your last sentence. Many years ago our new neighbour called round and we went into the garage to get him some tool he needed and didn't have and he saw that the two (separate) flourescent light strips were wired with bell wire..bad enough but they were blackened. He worked for BT back then..retired by now,I assume and offered to replace them which he did the following day. He said they could have caused a fire at any time. The bloke who sold the house was one of these DIY people who 'think' they know what they're doing but,in reality don't. It is said that a little knowledge can be dangerous. I'm really pleased with the high standards that are legally required here and now we have to have certificates for work done that are given to buyers of properties. It's frightening what you see in accomodation throughout the world and the same goes for gas. We've just had a new kitchen installed and the three workmen doing it,one an electrician, had to get a qualified gas fitter in to isolate the gas to the old gas hob. We now have an induction hob/electric oven.
 
Suvv said:
Things I have seen:
Bell wire used to supply a 13a socket.
External light earthed by wrapping the earth wire around a screw in the brickwork.
Cooker switch disconnected and removed but the cable was still live, apparently the wall steamed when it was plastered
Immersion heater fused connector removed and the cable cut flush to the wall - still live
Extention leads permanantly fixed so they could have sockets in the bathroom.
Lots of appliance leads with cracked or missing insulation
Appliance leads that have to held a certain way to work
Horrible 3 way plug adaptors with another adaptor plugged in to that.
and lots more!
When I worked on 11kv switchgear I used to check the tester with a test set, use the tester to ensure the supply was dead, re-test the tester, use an earthing rod (a bit like a javelin with a metal tip which had a cable connected to a known earth teminal) to touch the supply and finally connect the supply terminal to the earth connector, and I was still nervous about actually touching anything with my hands.
In the old days at work you could isolate something by removing the fuse and keeping it with you, nowadays with MCBs anyone can just come along and flip it back on
Click to expand...

What a horrendous catalogue of dangerous practices. Re. bell wire, have a look at my post above.

I'm surprised we don't hear of more fires..and deaths if that's just what you've seen. I'll bet if a few electricians got together they could produce a book full of such horrors. :rolleyes:

I didn't know what 'Part P' was so I Googled it. For anyone, like me, who wasn't aware of the detail, here's an explanation . As I understand it Scotland and NI aren't subject to the regs but do have an equivalent incorporated within their Building Regs.

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/find-an-electrician/part-p/

https://electrical.theiet.org/bs-7671/building-regulations/part-p-scotland-and-northern-ireland/
 
Nod said:
And if that leak is of gas...
Click to expand...

As I’m sure you’ll appreciate I was referring to water. To the best of my knowledge gas work is carried out by gas fitters. If they are also called plumbers then I was unaware of that as probably most people are.
 
Does anyone remember those old bar-type electric fires? The old fashioned ones where the guard in front of the bar type elements had gaps about an inch or so wide? Well, the one we had seemed to have a fault; one of the bars worked fine and glowed orange hot like it should, but the other bar just sat there doing nothing when switched on.

Being an inquisitive 10 year-old, I decided to investigate the problem; I tuned on the switch for the defective bar and gave it a few minutes to see if it would work. It didn't seem to be doing anything, so I thought I'd reach through the guard and touch it to see if it was getting warm. My fingers must have bridged the gap between the break in the wound wire element. I can only describe the force of the split-second shock as being something akin to a speeded up version of shaking hands with the business end of a pneumatic road drill at full chat (not that I've ever done that, but it's the closest thing I can liken it to)!

I finished up sitting about three feet away from the fire in stunned silence thinking "Well, I'm not going to do that again!". That taught me to have the greatest of respect for electricity, and to stop and think things through very carefully before acting. I probably wouldn't have lived to tell the tale if I hadn't been sitting on a goatskin rug in front of the fire at the time, which probably provided some insulation from ground. Hooray for 1970s fashion!
 
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JohnC6 said:
As I’m sure you’ll appreciate I was referring to water. To the best of my knowledge gas work is carried out by gas fitters. If they are also called plumbers then I was unaware of that as probably most people are.
Click to expand...


Many plumbers also deal with gas. Costs them a fair wedge to keep up their gas certification. Even a water leak can be fairly catastrophic should the water get into poor electrics.
 
Nod said:
Many plumbers also deal with gas.
Click to expand...
Before the certification laws came in, all handymen dealt with all utilities, not just their speciality; this work could vary in quality from competent to deadly.

In the '70's, there was a guy contracted to remove an old gas boiler from a house basement. He didn't have a cap for the gas pipe, so he just hammered it flat.
When the householder later went down into the basement, they turned on the light. The resulting explosion killed three people.
 
While I was a painter and decorator I was tasked with removing a Redifusion cable from where it had been run down the corner of the chimney breast. Easy! Snip cable half way down and pull on it then remove any cable clips that didn't come out using pliers. As the first clip came free of the wall, I heard a gentle hiss and smelled gas. Managed to get to the lady just before she sparked up a ciggy and found out where the shut off valve was, opened all the windows and allowed the room to clear. Poor old dear had to stay with the boss for a couple of days until the plumber was available to replace the gas pipe from floor to ceiling - EVERY nail had gone into the pipe so she was very lucky that there hadn't been any leakage before.

I'm happy to deal with electricity (as far as is legal) and have a mate who can sign off any work that needs it (and do anything I don't feel 100% about doing myself) but leave any plumbing to a professional (beyond washer replacement and the like.)
 
My father was an electrician, so of course I learned NOTHING AT ALL from him !!!

First time I needed to change a single light switch - bought light switch - went into garage to fuse box and found it had multiple switches, one marked 'Lights' - I turn that one off, turned on a few light switches, none came on - so I took the broken switch off the wall and in replacing it BANG - the electric shock deadened my left arm for nearly 30 mins !!!

I then turned off the power to the entire house !!! And finished replacing the new switch :)

Imagine how chuffed I was with myself when I showed it off to my wife later :) only for her to point out I'd fitted it upside-down :(

I've been BANNED from DIY ever since :D

Dave
 
Nod said:
Many plumbers also deal with gas. Costs them a fair wedge to keep up their gas certification. Even a water leak can be fairly catastrophic should the water get into poor electrics.
Click to expand...

Ok..I didn’t know that. If I could gently suggest Mr Nod..a little more explanation in you original post would have enlightened me at the time..:).
 
Tori_T said:
Before the certification laws came in, all handymen dealt with all utilities, not just their speciality; this work could vary in quality from competent to deadly.

In the '70's, there was a guy contracted to remove an old gas boiler from a house basement. He didn't have a cap for the gas pipe, so he just hammered it flat.
When the householder later went down into the basement, they turned on the light. The resulting explosion killed three people.
Click to expand...

B.....y hell.....Awful. :(
 
Nod said:
While I was a painter and decorator I was tasked with removing a Redifusion cable from where it had been run down the corner of the chimney breast. Easy! Snip cable half way down and pull on it then remove any cable clips that didn't come out using pliers. As the first clip came free of the wall, I heard a gentle hiss and smelled gas. Managed to get to the lady just before she sparked up a ciggy and found out where the shut off valve was, opened all the windows and allowed the room to clear. Poor old dear had to stay with the boss for a couple of days until the plumber was available to replace the gas pipe from floor to ceiling - EVERY nail had gone into the pipe so she was very lucky that there hadn't been any leakage before.

I'm happy to deal with electricity (as far as is legal) and have a mate who can sign off any work that needs it (and do anything I don't feel 100% about doing myself) but leave any plumbing to a professional (beyond washer replacement and the like.)
Click to expand...

When I bought my first house..a new build, I wanted to put up a mirror over the small cloakroom sink. In the context of what we’re discussing, you can guess the rest. The drill went into a gas pipe. Much hissing..lol. I don’t do panic and went outside to the inlet pipe and closed the valve. I made a point of location the inlets of the water and gas when I moved in. I then called the emergency number,,for leaks.of gas company. The lady was very pleased I’d isolated the inlet..she sounded it too..relieved.. Within 15 minutes the engineer arrived and criticised the builders for putting a pipe in a place where someone was very likely to want a wall mirror. I can’t recall what happened ..I did put up the mirror so I probably made a note..a mark, where the gas pipe was.
 
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JohnC6 said:
Ok..I didn’t know that. If I could gently suggest Mr Nod..a little more explanation in you original post would have enlightened me at the time..:).
Click to expand...

No problem.

FWIW, one of my golf buddies is a retired plumber and spent a lot of his working life doing roofing work on the local hospitals. Being an old fashioned plumber, he was a dab hand with lead work.
 
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