A Car Related Driving Question?

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stryvya

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Lennard
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Hi,
Scenario, I,m following some cars the Traffic Lights change to Red and I`m sat behind 6 Cars.
I stop and put on my Handbrake, select Neutral and take my foot off the Clutch.
I notice that all 6 cars in front of me have their Brake Lights on, so Brake Pedal depressed and Brakes holding the car in position.
I presume that at least half of these are also in gear with the Clutch Pedal depressed and the clutch held open
.
What effect and wear is placed on the Brake and Clutch parts of these Cars?

And at night it's blinding.

Am I just relating to older style Cars, I am 76 and been driving for 60 years, maybe on a modern car this is not relevant.?

Oh and just saying, would love to see the "Start/Stop" function kick in, a rare sight.
 
Some of them may be automatics but that said, when I drove manuals, I rarely put the car in neutral at traffic lights unless I knew I was going to be there for a while, never had an issue with clutch or brakes.

Different for me now though as I drive an automatic with hand controls so I put it in park when at traffic lights otherwise it kills my shoulder.
 
FWIW Lennard, I agree it's bloody annoying as well as 'blinding' at night.

Of course it's putting unnecessary wear on the clutch and IMO is bloody dangerous staying in gear.

The trouble is it's the way lazy drivers drive and even worse - the bloody instructors are now teaching them that way. :banghead:
 
I should add that even when I drive automatics, I still apply the handbrake and take it out of gear - auto clutches wear the same as manual ones do.
 
I'll admit, I do usually use the brake. But I'm anyways in neutral, I've always done that since I started driving..... 26/27 years ago.

Part of it stems from when I used to use the Mk1 Escort as my daily car years ago. The paddle clutch is so heavy on that holding it clutch down is impossible!
 
Stop/Start
 
I suspect a good percentage of them will be automatics or semi automatics. Also on the last two cars I’ve owned the stop/start function kicks in when you’re not moving and have the brake depressed, so at least some of those cars in front won’t actually have their engine idling.
 
The problem with everyone being in neutral at lights is the time taken for everyone to get moving. Leaving the car in gear with the clutch depressed and handbrake applied will cause next to no wear as it’s not engaged or slipping.
 
boogie man said:
I suspect a good percentage of them will be automatics or semi automatics. Also on the last two cars I’ve owned the stop/start function kicks in when you’re not moving and have the brake depressed, so at least some of those cars in front won’t actually have their engine idling.
Click to expand...

Yes, I meant to say that my last car had stop/start and that only worked with the brake pedal depressed
 
I've got an auto, and I generally have my left foot on the brake at lights. As soon as I put it into park, the lights change, happens all the time, I must have a transmitter in the gearbox!!
 
Marc said:
Yes, I meant to say that my last car had stop/start and that only worked with the brake pedal depressed
Click to expand...


Should also work if you stick it in park & release the pedal.
 
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I tend to not use the handbrake at lights because it's in an awkward place on the focus, so just keep my foot on the brake and put it in neutral so the stop/start kicks in
 
Jelster said:
I've got an auto, and I generally have my left foot on the brake at lights. As soon as I put it into park, the lights change, happens all the time, I must have a transmitter in the gearbox!!
Click to expand...
Why your left foot?
 
My car is auto and has a "Hold" operation, such that when I come to a halt with braking, it will automatically engage the brake as well as the stop/start function. (with auto-lights, adaptive cruise control and lane assist, and emergency auto-braking, I hardly need to be present!)
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Why your left foot?
Click to expand...



Marc said:
Quicker to get on the gas when the lights turm green?
Click to expand...

Exactly. In fact, if I really want to get away quickly, I bring the revs up to about 1500 and hold it on the brake, slam my right foot down and dump the brake. As this is my 3rd "sports" auto, I've also got used to using my left foot for gentle braking on country roads too.
 
I do the same as the OP. I don't think that the couple of seconds it takes to release the handbrake whilst depressing the clutch pedal makes much difference.
If you are sitting there with the handbrake off and someone crashes into the back of you it could push you into the car in front. If you hit that then your head will jerk forward causing problems, as well as smashing the front of the car in addition to the back.
Regarding the clutch it all depends on if it is fully disengaged or if it still biting a bit and the thrust bearing can get extra wear.
 
Jelster said:
Exactly. In fact, if I really want to get away quickly, I bring the revs up to about 1500 and hold it on the brake, slam my right foot down and dump the brake. As this is my 3rd "sports" auto, I've also got used to using my left foot for gentle braking on country roads too.
Click to expand...
I left foot brake all the time in my car, much smoother when driving enthusiastically.
 
rick448 said:
The problem with everyone being in neutral at lights is the time taken for everyone to get moving. Leaving the car in gear with the clutch depressed and handbrake applied will cause next to no wear as it’s not engaged or slipping.
Click to expand...

Seriously? I can get the car in gear to pull away while amber is showing and still pull away on green!
 
stryvya said:
Hi,
Scenario, I,m following some cars the Traffic Lights change to Red and I`m sat behind 6 Cars.
I stop and put on my Handbrake, select Neutral and take my foot off the Clutch.
I notice that all 6 cars in front of me have their Brake Lights on, so Brake Pedal depressed and Brakes holding the car in position.
I presume that at least half of these are also in gear with the Clutch Pedal depressed and the clutch held open
.
What effect and wear is placed on the Brake and Clutch parts of these Cars?

And at night it's blinding.

Am I just relating to older style Cars, I am 76 and been driving for 60 years, maybe on a modern car this is not relevant.?

Oh and just saying, would love to see the "Start/Stop" function kick in, a rare sight.
Click to expand...

Those are people who don't care for other road users when brake lights can blind the driver behind. Even worse when it's dark. It annoys the hell out of me.

Yes riding the clutch will put more wear on it. Sucks to be those people.
 
LeeRatters said:
Seriously? I can get the car in gear to pull away while amber is showing and still pull away on green!
Click to expand...
Maybe you can, also whilst it may be green while you go through, the chances are others could also get through if everyone else got moving quicker. Most can’t do this quickly that’s why it’s not taught to learners, or certainly wasn’t when I was instructing.
 
Jelster said:
Seriously Rick, you should have no problem with all those horses mate!!! :LOL::LOL::LOL:
Click to expand...
By smoother I mean the transition between power on / brake / power off / power on. :wave:
 
My auto Saab’s owners manual told you not to take it out gear at traffic lights, but to stay in d and keep your foot on the brake.
you talk about wear to clutches etc, but what about wear to the gear changing mechanisms... they wear out too.

In a manual, holding on the brake and clutch in won’t wear the clutch as the clutch is disengaged. You’ll wear the handbrake mechanism out more though.
 
For me, it depends very much on what I'm in/on and the exact circumstances. In mine (auto with stop/start), I'll sit on the footbrake if there's nobody waiting behind me - this engages the s/s and shows the brake lights which might help someone coming up behind see me sat there. As soon as I have someone behind, I'll put the handbrake on and if I know it'll be more than a few seconds until the lights change, I'll slip into neutral which keeps the s/s working. When I get a clue the lights are about to change, back into D and off I go (car restarts and releases the handbrake automatically.)
In Mrs Nod's Leaf, I'll stick the parking brake on straight away but will usually keep a foot on the brake as well for the reason given above. Since the "hand" brake is left foot operated, I'll treat it almost like a clutch, releasing it as I prod the go-faster pedal.
In her M-X5, it's handbrake, neutral etc.. As soon as there's a clue the lights are about to change, back into gear and away we go, using brakes if necessary (hill start etc..)
On a bike, if you're on any gradient, you pretty much need to use a brake. Sorry about that, following drivers but it's a single bulb and not at too high a level so as to cause too much of a problem, even at night.
 
Always some exceptions but in general:

Manuals: drivers being lazy and risk of roll forward/back when they change from brake pedal to accelerator. Clutch wear depends on them keeping the clutch pedal below biting point or not.

Full autos: likely additional clutch wear.

Semi autos/ DSG: different implementations by different manufacturers mean some cars can hold either with foot on brake pedal and some can hold themselves without a foot on any pedal and disengage the clutch so it isn’t wearing.

All of them: holding on the footbrake after slowing down will cause front brake pads to hold on the discs leading to uneven disc cooling. Over time can warp the brake discs. Rear discs don’t get as hot so less of an issue.

Personally, I apply handbrake if I think I am going to be stationary for more than ~5 seconds with someone behind, and I drive a semi auto which can do the foot brake hold without foot on pedal, exactly because I don’t want to blind the driver behind, or trash my brake discs. I’d leave it to hold on the brake pedal for longer if no one behind so an approaching car can see my brake lights/stationary, and then apply handbrake after they have pulled up behind me.

Then you have those that hold on the clutch biting point and end up moving back and forward - really unsympathetic to the clutch.

Most people these days have cars on PCP lease for ~3 years so don’t care as issues only manifest later.
 
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JohnM100 said:
All of them: holding on the footbrake after slowing down will cause front brake pads to hold on the discs leading to uneven disc cooling. Over time can warp the brake discs. Rear discs don’t get as hot so less of an issue.
Click to expand...

Applying the handbrake will also cause those pads to hold the disc. It doesn't seem so different.
 
rick448 said:
The problem with everyone being in neutral at lights is the time taken for everyone to get moving. Leaving the car in gear with the clutch depressed and handbrake applied will cause next to no wear as it’s not engaged or slipping.
Click to expand...
But thjat is the reason for the amber light - to give you the half a second it requires to put the car in gear.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Applying the handbrake will also cause those pads to hold the disc. It doesn't seem so different.
Click to expand...

It will, but to be quite honest, just how hot are most discs likely to be when driving in areas with traffic lights? On track days and I never apply handbrakes after the session, although in my current car the handbrake is a stupid version of a drum affair within the rear disc assembly so not likely to cause an issue, though I very rarely use the handbrake at all on this car, the DCT 'box engages park when the car it switched off when in D or R.
 
rick448 said:
It will, but to be quite honest, just how hot are most discs likely to be when driving in areas with traffic lights? On track days and I never apply handbrakes after the session, although in my current car the handbrake is a stupid version of a drum affair within the rear disc assembly so not likely to cause an issue, though I very rarely use the handbrake at all on this car, the DCT 'box engages park when the car it switched off when in D or R.
Click to expand...

The amount of heat in the discs will be proportional to how much braking has been required (;)) - I have 'happy' memories of smoking brakes and near total fade when driving past Milton Keynes & the roundabouts/traffic lights there. Those cars were anything but sports models however.

I was just trying to point out that for most designs of car there is no benefit to using one system over the other when it comes to warping discs - in fact using the hand brake might be worse, clamping cold pads onto a hot disc and drawing heat far quicker than holding warm pads against the surface.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Applying the handbrake will also cause those pads to hold the disc. It doesn't seem so different.
Click to expand...

.. but the handbrake holds the rears only and they don’t get as hot as the fronts, so unless you are on a track it’s not a real issue.
 
rick448 said:
Maybe you can, also whilst it may be green while you go through, the chances are others could also get through if everyone else got moving quicker. Most can’t do this quickly that’s why it’s not taught to learners, or certainly wasn’t when I was instructing.
Click to expand...

Well, if I can do it being first in the queue I'm pretty sure the people 4th, 5th & 6th can pull away as quickly as possible too because they will have even more time to put their car in gear!!

Three of the four traffic lights I encounter on the work commute you can go into gear just before they change anyway if you pay attention to the other lights & the red/green man ;)
 
ancient_mariner said:
The amount of heat in the discs will be proportional to how much braking has been required (;)) - I have 'happy' memories of smoking brakes and near total fade when driving past Milton Keynes & the roundabouts/traffic lights there. Those cars were anything but sports models however.
Click to expand...
Been there but not in MK - Scottish highlands windy roads several decades ago before ventilated discs & with brake fluid not long due for a change. Brake fade is scary.

ancient_mariner said:
I was just trying to point out that for most designs of car there is no benefit to using one system over the other when it comes to warping discs - in fact using the hand brake might be worse, clamping cold pads onto a hot disc and drawing heat far quicker than holding warm pads against the surface.
Click to expand...

Since it’s the pads that heat the discs in the first place, a cold pad and hot disc is not a normal scenario.
 
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i'm usually still upating my facebook status when lights go green, so not in much of a rush but generally handbrake and neatrul
 
Neutral and handbrake for me, also taught to stop far enough back for TnT (able to see tyres and tarmac under the car in front), if at night and blinded with brake lights I just go to main beam in their mirror, childish maybe but it's better than other forms of road rage?
 
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