‘Sharpening’ and ‘Noise Reduction’

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I use Lightroom to process my photographs.

Should I use the ‘Sharpening’ section before the ‘Noise Reduction’ section?

The reason in asking is, when ‘Sharpening’ doesn't that also sharpen the ‘Noise’?
 
Sharpening comes before noise reduction if you vertically down the options on the left of the Develop screen. I have always seen that as indicating Adobe's suggested order of adjustment.
 
Doesn't make any difference at all to the quality of the file you export. Lightroom works on your raw files in a non destructive manner.
 
Craig_85 said:
Doesn't make any difference at all to the quality of the file you export. Lightroom works on your raw files in a non destructive manner.
Click to expand...
There must be a difference between removing sharpened noise and sharpening a low noise image. This has nothing to do with being destructive or not, but the order that Lightroom carries out the actions on Export.
 
I've always been told that sharpening is the final step and should be done to suit each individual use. A 1500x1000 pixel screen image will need a different amount, radius etc. of sharpening than an A3+ print's file.
 
Jedi Colin said:
The reason in asking is, when ‘Sharpening’ doesn't that also sharpen the ‘Noise’?
Click to expand...
It does.... however Lightroom bases its sharpening on the three pass method. The first pass is capture sharpening which is there along with noise reduction, simply use the masking slider to limit the sharpening to where it is needed and unless you are using a very high ISO just use a small amount of noise reduction. The second stage is creative sharpening which you can brush in with the adjustment brush, you can also do the same with noise reduction. The final stage is output sharpening which you specify in the output/print dialogue. Lightroom is very good at matching the amount of output sharpening to the destination use.

Unless you are into pixel peeping or using very high ISO's do not worry too much about the 'noise' in an image...
 
john.margetts said:
There must be a difference between removing sharpened noise and sharpening a low noise image. This has nothing to do with being destructive or not, but the order that Lightroom carries out the actions on Export.
Click to expand...

There is a difference when working with pixel editors like PS.

In LR there will be literally no difference at all to the outputted file. The only difference will be the changes you see in the develop module as you are making the adjustments.

They are not burned in so to put it until you export. Personally I sharpen then noise reduce in lightroom and use the toggle on/off feature to make sure I'm happy with the overall combined adjustment.
 
I prefer to crank the sharpening right down until I'm happy that I've reduced noise to level I want. I then mask the image (holding down alt to preview) and then last step is to dial back in some sharpening until I'm happy. Order doesn't make any difference but I find it easier to see what I'm doing tackling things in this order. That said, I don't actually worry too much about NR unless it's an image that's likely to be printed.
 
I sharpen first, but hold down the alt key and use the masking slider to make sure I'm only sharpening edge detail. No point in sharpening things I want blurred, or - as you say - noise.
 
As I see it, if we sharpen noise we may run the risk of making it more obvious. This could well be an issue with high ISO images. So it's best to target noise and reduce it first. It's the same with film grain. Just today I used noise reduction at 50% in a masked sky to lessen the appearance of grain. If I'd sharpened globally before noise reduction I would have made the grain more noticeable and noise reduction less effective.
 
you can always wind back the sharpening at anytime or just reset the raw,i honestly havent found it makes a bit of difference to the end image in which order you do anything,what it does do is give some order to the process
but if your ok jumping around ,go ahead,
 
Thank you all for your comments and help.
 
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