1905 • An Instrument for Pre-War Museum

Kodiak Qc

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French Canadian living in Europe since 1989!
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An industrial client of mine, who happens to be a very
serious antiques collector and a board member of the
Schloß Karbergsbach Heritage management, asked
to have photographs of a newly acquired instrument
for the museum, a 1905 built Nemetschke piano.

The instrument was temporarily stored in a messy ware-
house
where nobody would keep such instruments so a
lot of PP was require on the BG to achieve a presentable
scene.

D3X + Profoto D1, B1, B2 + octo and strips all gridded.



Piano%2009pp.jpg


Piano%2010pp.jpg


Piano%2016pp.jpg


 
BG looks too clinical and there are obvious and clumsy bits of cloning in the first one (lower left, just above the watermark.)
 
BG looks too clinical
Had I left the rubbish that was there, I wonder
what your comment would have been…
but don't say, I know!
obvious and clumsy bits of cloning
There was no cloning but healing and it was
toward the back of the piano and left side wall.

What did you want to achieve with these comments, Nod?
… at least you got a like for them and a reply…,
 
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My preference is #3. Stunning - Love the symmetry of the lines and the loss of BG. Love the warm glow of the piano in all 3. 1 and 2 do not have an optimal BG, although your love of the instrument shows in the care you lavished to showcase it.

Marie
 
Loving the definition in these, and the manipulation of the light is real quality.
 
Had I left the rubbish that was there, I wonder
what your comment would have been…
but don't say, I know!

There was no cloning but healing and it was
toward the back of the piano and left side wall.

What did you want to achieve with these comments, Nod?
… at least you got a like for them and a reply…,


I'd rather see the real scene, warts and all. Were you right?

Look just above your watermark and you'll clearly see repeated patterns of whatever on the floor - healing is a form of cloning IIRC...
KodiakPiano.jpg
 
repeated patterns of whatever on the floor - healing is a form of cloning

Depending on the software you're using,
as the one I use, healing is averaging
pixel values.

If that area had been touched, don't you
think I would have removed the debris at
the left of the ©?

This warehouse was a workshop before
and many such repetitive patterns on the
concrete flood were caused by standing
and operating machines.
 
If that area had been touched, don't you
think I would have removed the debris at
the left of the ©?


Maybe you were bored by then?

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this but I know what I can see in that area. Without seeing the original, there's no way to tell for sure.
 
The third is a nice artistic image, but is this the brief? There's not enough light in any of the to act as a catalogue image, or detailed enough for insurance purposes.

Two light sources? Both high, one to the front of the keys, one rear right?
Got any without the grids?
 
The third is a nice artistic image
Thanks Byker… it's all in the light!
but is this the brief?
this, I don't understand
There's not enough light in any of the to act as a catalogue image or detailed enough for insurance purposes.
For sure not! The buyer wanted a shot with tamed lights
as in a living room and as it will be lit in the museum
Two light sources? Both high, one to the front of the keys, one rear right?
Got any without the grids?
Three in #1 and #2 and only one in #3. None without grid
as no light spill on the warehouse was welcomed.

A 5' gridded octo above, a strip in a diagonal position for
the right side and the harp and one strip for the keyboard.
 
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Love that third image...really nice!
 
Fine images of a great looking piano, no 3 is my pick of the set, lighting really picks out the colour of the wood in all of them.
 
I'm assuming that whoever wanted these isn't going to be having the images large as that floor is really bad, shame really for such a nice instrument

#3 would be nice but for me I don't like the clipped edges
 
I'm assuming that whoever wanted these isn't going to be having the images large as that floor is really bad…
As said, this client is on the Heritage Management team.
This means that the purchase has to be approved by the
members in session. The purpose of these photograph is
to present the piano as it would look like in the salon on the
third floor of the castle. The presentation light is important,
that's why a photographer was needed as no one with the
usual family souvenir gear could achieve such take. The
environment was not important — though making it look less
messy was.
…shame really for such a nice instrument
No, you got it all wrong! The furniture is acceptable but the
instrument is horrible… a really bad piano in a nice furniture.
This is the only way to get this décor element at an affordable
price for a museum in a castle that should generates enough
money to pay for its own maintenance and operation staff.
I don't like the clipped edges
…/
 
I think they show what they will be getting very well.
Though I dont care for the chunky late victorian style of the instrument. But no accounting for taste.
 
BG looks too clinical and there are obvious and clumsy bits of cloning in the first one (lower left, just above the watermark.)

Also evident at the bottom right of the word in your cropped example too.
I actually quite like the industrial type setting and subdued lighting.
 
The purpose of these photograph is
to present the piano as it would look like in the salon on the
third floor of the castle

Wouldn't you think that the piano should have been placed on a type of flooring relevant to the third floor of a castle, probably oak wood, rather than a newish, dusty tampered concrete floor by the look of things?.... Even placing on a large rug would have been better.

I like the third photo though, apart from the clipping.
 
Wouldn't you think…


You are right in this, Simon but…
  1. When shopping for what ever, you have to imagine the
    end use situation most of the times as samples are not
    always readily available — like for paint, tapestry etc.
  2. The job phone order came after supper on a Sunday:
    "I would need the pictures for 08:30 for a meeting tomor-
    row!". So, quickly after supper, my son and I loaded the
    car and, after some planing, we setup the shoot and went
    to work. The instructions were clear, the time was quite late
    and very short.
  3. When this gentleman says: "I would need a personal favour"
    one does not want to refuse it, it is always worthwhile.
 
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The third shot works well for me; best out of those three, and I like it very much, but I'm wondering why you cropped the edges off?

I'm feeling that the cloning and manipulation doesn't work too well here. I'm wondering whether the shabby environment should have been left in. Wouldn't it have given it a context seeing as it is only a temporary storage? If the client wanted a more pleasing image, then would it not have been better to shoot it after it was removed from the warehouse? You say it was only temporary any way, so why not just wait?

The retouching is poor in places. Looks like you've used the heal tool too close to edges which has bled the colour of the wood into the surrounding walls. Particularly noticeable at the corner of the music stand on shot 2. There's some very noticeable clone patterning as well.
 
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The call came in after supper on Sunday evening
and I was very busy finishing the shoot of the end
of the works at a electric power dam to be delivered
early morning on Monday. There was no time really.

Like I said, these pictures were to be printed 10x15
(4 sets) for approval by the management. It was only
important to suggest "how it would look like once in
place".

I'm wondering why you cropped the edges off?
It was to show that it is a full keyboard piano (88 keys)
and that it was Austrian made, nothing else.
I'm feeling that the cloning and manipulation doesn't work too well here.
The PP was done by my 17 yo son late that evening.
His job was to clean up what he can and call me if any
problem or difficulty. The shots were for the manage-
meant that is not made of pixel peepers! :)

Anyway the job was done, the management did approve
the purchase of the instrument that was moved in the
castle-museum, and will be on display on time for Sep-
member first. I have a very happy client.

Thanks for dropping by!
 
It is so easy to criticise a photo, but as I have said before unless you are there when the picture was taken you don't know what the photographer has to contend with..
 
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It is so easy to criticise a photo, but as I have said before unless you are there when the picture was taken you don't know what the photographer has to contend with..


So we'll stop offering crit then... OK.



It was to show that it is a full keyboard piano (88 keys)
and that it was Austrian made, nothing else.


Which it still would have done if you'd not cropped the edges off :)


The PP was done by my 17 yo son late that evening.
His job was to clean up what he can and call me if any
problem or difficulty. The shots were for the manage-
meant that is not made of pixel peepers! :)

If the work is not your own, then you should really say so when you post it so we're not criticising things that are not your fault. You've done this before.... post images, and when critiqued, all of a sudden it's someone else's work/fault. I recall a thread where after several rounds of crit of a still life set, it suddenly transpired it was student work you were showing and not yours at all.
 
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So we'll stop offering crit then... OK.




Which it still would have done if you've have not cropped the edges off :) Besides... if that's all this shoot was for.. to show features of the piano to approve a purchase, why spend hours retouching it?




If the work is not your own, then you should really say so when you post it so we're not criticising things that is not your fault. You've done this before.... post images, and when critiqued, all of a sudden it's someone else's work/fault. I recall a thread where after several rounds of crit of a still life set, it suddenly transpired it was student work you were showing and not yours at all.

Seriously it's just not worth your energy,
1, He's made it very clear he's not here to learn, feels he doesn't need too.
2, any mistakes are met with excuses upon excuses, usually bordering on supposed "students" or his childrens work, (although surely if you pass work to said other person you then go over what needs doing)
3, if you don't say "wow Oh wonderful one" and deign to continue critique youre venomous and nasty or met with this as a reply (... / )
 
It is so easy to criticise a photo, but as I have said before unless you are there when the picture was taken you don't know what the photographer has to contend with..
So we'll stop offering crit then... OK.
Maybe my English is not good enough but I think Bazza's
reply was not meant this way!

Which it still would have done if you'd not cropped the edges off :)
Yes, but it was done this way and this was my decision.
If the work is not your own
Sorry David but this is a family operation and a location
shoot on such short notice could not have possibly done
without the help of my sons — to who I happily give credits
even if they only hold or set a flash head.
 
Sorry David but this is a family operation and a location
shoot on such short notice could not have possibly done
without the help of my sons

I'm saying you should say so if the work is not your own, which the above comment has no relevance to. I'd certainly not be posting images that were not entirely my own work without saying so.


Personally, I just think you can't handle any criticism of your work, and make excuses for it when it's not received as well as you wanted it to be. I don't mind people arguing a point or opinion, but this suddenly revealing it is not entirely your work when it's critiqued is getting a bit tired now.
 
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So we'll stop offering crit then... OK.
If the work is not your own, then you should really say so when you post it so we're not criticising things that are not your fault. You've done this before.... post images, and when critiqued, all of a sudden it's someone else's work/fault. I recall a thread where after several rounds of crit of a still life set, it suddenly transpired it was student work you were showing and not yours at all.

I'd only just taken KQC off ignore after a previous similar offence. I wouldn't have bothered but since he's once again posting advice on so many threads it disrupts the discussion to have odd gaps.

Back to this image and ignoring the processing. The tones are very attractive. I like the composition of all 3. I don't much like the lighting - the specular highlights are rather sharp, the shadows are somewhat hard, distracting and fall in all sorts of directions and the first 2 could do with a lot more light on the maker's name. I've never lit a piano but I'd have borrowed or bodged a huge scrim frame to do the same job.



The call came in after supper on Sunday evening
and I was very busy finishing the shoot of the end
of the works at a electric power dam to be delivered
early morning on Monday. There was no time really.

Like I said, these pictures were to be printed 10x15
(4 sets) for approval by the management. It was only
important to suggest "how it would look like once in
place".
It was to show that it is a full keyboard piano (88 keys)

and that it was Austrian made, nothing else.

The PP was done by my 17 yo son late that evening.
His job was to clean up what he can and call me if any
problem or difficulty. The shots were for the manage-
meant that is not made of pixel peepers! :)

Anyway the job was done, the management did approve
the purchase of the instrument that was moved in the
castle-museum, and will be on display on time for Sep-
member first. I have a very happy client.

Thanks for dropping by!

I'm pleased that you're posting work. Anyone who offers as much comment as you do should, IMO. But please make the scope of your work clear when you post it, and please make both the brief and restrictions clear at the time of posting. Pulling explanations, excuses, evasions and deflections out of the hat as each piece of negative crit is received comes across as rude and arrogant. The impression is that you're just not interested in what anyone has to say unless it's positive.
 
So, initially, it was maintained that only a little cloning was used at the rear of the instrument, when it's clear that there's a lot of lazy cloning on the floor.
Now the poor PP is blamed on the son?
OK. o_O
 
Piano%2010pp2 by mrcrow_uk, on Flickr

Piano%2010pp1 by mrcrow_uk, on Flickr

lots of shadows there and contra lighting..softer lighting i feel would make this monster more enjoyable...since this is pictorial it doesnt matter what it sounds like
the shot is hard and very domineering suggesting discord
sod the cloning...its not really an issue
cheers
geof
 
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lots of shadows there and contra lighting..softer lighting i feel would make this monster more enjoyable...since this is pictorial it doesnt matter what it sounds like
the shot is hard and very domineering suggesting discord
sod the cloning...its not really an issue
cheers
geof

I would agree, had the OP not insisted so strenuously that it hadn't even been carried out.
 
I would agree, had the OP not insisted so strenuously that it hadn't even been carried out.

An industrial client of mine, who happens to be a very
serious antiques collector and a board member of the
Schloß Karbergsbach Heritage management, asked
to have photographs of a newly acquired instrument
for the museum, a 1905 built Nemetschke piano.

The instrument was temporarily stored in a messy ware-
house where nobody would keep such instruments so a
lot of PP was require on the BG to achieve a presentable
scene.


my bad!! sorry K and Ruthie
see my edit and dont sulk
:D
 
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lot of PP was require on the BG to achieve a presentable scene.

That was my part as my son saw it as too difficult
and it was already late for him.
The purpose of these photograph is to present the piano as it would look like in the salon on the third floor of the castle. The presentation light is important,
This is the reason of the chosen rendition
i would assume cloning the subject would negate authenticity
Yes, you're right absolutely!
 
That was my part as my son saw it as too difficult
and it was already late for him.

This is the reason of the chosen rendition

Yes, you're right absolutely!

cheers
 
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