1D Mark IV vs 7D Mark II

Sporty_Tog

Sporty_Tog

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Hey folks,

I've read loads of threads on how people view the 1D Mark IV with various lenses and how effective it was/is. They were pretty old threads and this argument tends to pop up sometimes on forums but there's no real down the line answer. Most of the time someone will defend their purchase of one or the other and the thread decends into chaos.

My gut feeling is to buy a 1D Mark IV. I'll be buying it this week along with the Canon 300mm 2.8 IS. It seems to me like a tried and tested combination that vey few seem disappointed with. Granted those who moved up to the 400 2.8 felt there was a bigger keeper rate, but that's more expensive. I want to learn to walk before I turn up running with my shoe laces tied. I have the 5D Mark III and upgraded my 70-200 f4 IS to a 2.8 IS Mk1 the other day. Weight being the considerable change but a battery grip helped out with the balance and overall grip. Happy with that change so far.

I'm pretty much sold on the 300 2.8, with what I've read online so far and from others I've spoken to. It's this annoying niggling thought of an older camera being better than a newer camera. I had the 7D and moved to the 1D3 in 2013 and it was night and day. The 1D3 blew the socks off the 7d for me and even though it was only 10mp the files were so nice to work with. I kind of get the feeling that it may be the same way with this combo. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

Some have said, just get another 5D3, but I do feel that it's a wee bit slow and the used price slipping as it is worries me. With the 1D3 I learned that short controlled burst were useful because the buffer was pants. I kind of miss the the speed of it.

Anyway, to the point. If you were sending someone out to get a replacement camera what would you choose?

Any advice greatly appreciated :)

Paul
 
Nothing wrong with the 1DIV and nice examples are still fetching £2000 + second hand which speaks volumes. Coupled with the 300mm f/2.8 IS makes it a very good combo and if set up correctly can give outstanding results!
 
Thanks Jim for the input. I have to laugh at myself sometimes. When I had the 1D3 I longed for the 1DIV, as some predicted. High MP count would have helped with cropping and the support for UDMA cards coupled with the awful 1D3 screen and I'd have chewed the hand off anyone selling a 1DIV for the price they are going for now.
 
The 1d4 is leaps and bounds over the 1d3 you had... for serious sports its the must have only beaten by the 1dx ... get the 7dmkII if your a serious hobbyist with lots of dosh :)

PS my old one is going for 1200 quid on here..NOT by me as I sold it last yr..
 
I have the 5D MK III and the original 7D. I do a lot of sports photography and felt that the 5D was of little use except inside in low lighting situations. I decided to go for a second hand 1dMKIV and am very pleased with it. I use it with the 300 f2.8 MK II and it produces excellent results. I guess it depends what you are are shooting. If it is wildlife then the 400 is still a better bet than the 300 but cost does come into the equation. If it is sport, then I have no hesitation in recommending the IdMKIV and the 300m
 
Thanks folks. I've ordered the 1DIV. Should be here tomorrow. 300 2.8 is being couriered so I can have a look at it.
 
Sporty_Tog said:
Thanks folks. I've ordered the 1DIV. Should be here tomorrow. 300 2.8 is being couriered so I can have a look at it.
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top setup.. great at half way line as perfectly frames both goals... have you a 1.4 extender?
 
canon 1dmkIV + canon 300mm f2.8 IS mk 1 + canon x2 converter so 600mm

600mm_1.jpg


600mm_5.jpg
 
KIPAX said:
canon 1dmkIV + canon 300mm f2.8 IS mk 1 + canon x2 converter so 600mm

600mm_1.jpg


600mm_5.jpg
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Do not want to hijack the thread, but can you tell me Kipax if you tend to shoot these images AI Servo. I am sure that you do for football but wondered about cricket, given that there is less movement and you do have the chance to pre focus on a spot before the action "arrives"
 
Plumtreelad said:
Do not want to hijack the thread, but can you tell me Kipax if you tend to shoot these images AI Servo. I am sure that you do for football but wondered about cricket, given that there is less movement and you do have the chance to pre focus on a spot before the action "arrives"
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definitely ai servo.. with batsmen they tend to step forard a few steps..or not.. so pre focus no good.. and also you shoot the bowler as in this pic. then the batman hits a big one you want to be quickly pointing at a catcher not changing settings... therse a lot more goes on at cricket than people think.. so pre focus not much good and no good reason to use .... HTH :) Others might use pre focus to great effect.. but I fail to see how they can jump from one scene to another that could be anywhere and any distance...
 
KIPAX I cannot believe that IQ at 600mm. That's insane. I do plan to buy a 1.4x TC too yes. Makes sense. I heard a lot of folk moaning about the 2X but if I got that IQ I'd be happy. I don't expect to get that out of the box though. However, it's nice to see what's achievable.
 
Sporty_Tog said:
KIPAX I cannot believe that IQ at 600mm. That's insane. I do plan to buy a 1.4x TC too yes. Makes sense. I heard a lot of folk moaning about the 2X but if I got that IQ I'd be happy. I don't expect to get that out of the box though. However, it's nice to see what's achievable.
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you have to be a bit canny though.. these are at f8 and i could get a good pic most of the time... but wide open (2.8 x2 5.6) not so good.. PS that was taken 4 and a half yrs ago :)
 
I've bee looking at these two cameras for my next upgrade. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts and review once you receive it @Sporty_Tog. I mainly do wildlife and I feel my 60D is kinda lettin me down now especially with my Sigma 300 2.8 and 2x.
 
cropped in a bit more... you know how far away bowlers are on a cricket pitch.. so?

600cropped.jpg
 
On screen that is acceptable, in print it would be sterling.

@twhite87 I do a bit of wildlife in the downtime with footy, usually when I go a walk or something with my hide lol Yes I get strange looks. I'm dying to try it out so I'll let you know. I suspect 300 is going to be too short as I felt 400 was too short with the f5.6L on the 1D3. A 1Div and 300 2.8 isn't going to rectify that. However, a 1.4tc or 2x could help out given these results of KIPAX. Would need to be summer shooting though. There's no light in Scotland at this time of the year.
 
Sporty_Tog said:
Would need to be summer shooting though. There's no light in Scotland at this time of the year.
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hence why a mkIV beats a 7dII because if lights down and you still want F8 you can up the iso better on the 1dIV
 
Sporty_Tog said:
On screen that is acceptable, in print it would be sterling.

@twhite87 I do a bit of wildlife in the downtime with footy, usually when I go a walk or something with my hide lol Yes I get strange looks. I'm dying to try it out so I'll let you know. I suspect 300 is going to be too short as I felt 400 was too short with the f5.6L on the 1D3. A 1Div and 300 2.8 isn't going to rectify that. However, a 1.4tc or 2x could help out given these results of KIPAX. Would need to be summer shooting though. There's no light in Scotland at this time of the year.
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I have this image in my head of a hide shuffling along a footpath somewhere :) Where in Scotland are you - I'll have to keep an eye out.
 
I am based in Glasgow, I get about a bit with my hide. It's a crucial bit of kit I wouldn't do without in wildlife. Also great for hiding from folk at garden parties lol
 
KIPAX said:
hence why a mkIV beats a 7dII because if lights down and you still want F8 you can up the iso better on the 1dIV
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That's what I was thinking. Will the 1DmkIV focus at f8? I was thinking of having my 300 2.8 with a 2x and 1.4x stacked. Although 600mm for me is ample for grouse and kingfishers @Sporty_Tog
 
MkIV came this morning. Chuffed to bits with it. Going to see about the 300 2.8 after work. All change and one that my wee bag won't like. Saw some Peli style cases on Ebay for £45 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121538416274?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT -

I know the saying "You're going to drop thousands on gear and stick it in a case worth £45?" is going to be said, I just wondered if they are what you get or are the Peli cases inflated due to the name?
 
Well I ordered the case, cant hurt. I also left a deposit on the lens. Got it for £1440. Yes the Mk1 IS version. I was astonished too.

In a side note, and a wee notion to getting the 1DIV I bought a 800x Lexar card thinking it would be faster than my 400x card.

400x card popped off 32 RAW shots before it lagged then took 11.11s to clear the buffer on the 1DIV
800x card popped off 36 RAW shots before it lagged then took 14.3 s to clear the buffer on the IDIV

So an increase of 4 shots and only taking 3 secs to clear them. Marginal performance increase, however, a marked improvement over the 400x card in the 5D3 that I have been using lately.

400x card in the 5D3 only shot 18 RAW shots before it lagged and took 7.2 secs to clear the buffer. SO in a way I'm getting double performance but at double the time cost. Th einstances where I'll be firing off 36 RAW shots will be slim or none, but it's a useful exercise. I'm more a short sharp burts person.

For the purposes of experimentation, the 800x card saw 22 RAW shots before lag and 6.83s to clear the buffer.

I'm guessing the 7D2 numbers would be better with it being newer tech/cpu etc.
 
What a great thread, I love my mkiv both with the 300 and the 600..

Has anybody actually sold a mkiv for a 7dii and wished they hadn't..?
 
Sporty_Tog said:
I'm guessing the 7D2 numbers would be better with it being newer tech/cpu etc.
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These are the results I got testing a 7DMKII with various cards

Screen%20Shot%202015-01-26%20at%207.04.07%20pm.jpg
 
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Yeah that's pretty clear it's faster with the 1066x card. Might get one of those lol. The 600x card was close too.
 
KIPAX said:
hence why a mkIV beats a 7dII because if lights down and you still want F8 you can up the iso better on the 1dIV
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Is that from personal experience Tony?

I have a mate who has a 7DII and the high ISO looks pretty good to me and better than the 1DIV.
 
Tony you've probably pushed a MkIV further than any of us. What was its limit on ISO for your purposes. For me with wildlife it was 2500. After that and i felt that it softened detail too much.

Must admit I never used mine much after getting a 5D3, except when I wanted the frame rate now and again.

I'm not convinced that the MkIV is better than a 7D MkII, or vice versa, but I haven't had the chance yet to really put the MkII to a decent test although the MKIIs zone AF is pretty good.

Always felt that the AF on the MkIV was faster to lock on but couldn't track as well as the latest 61/65 point set ups on the 5D3 and now the 7D MkII.

Oddly, although Canon have said that the 7D MkII, with its smaller batteries, can drive the big primes as fast as the bigger batteries in the 1 series cameras that's not what I see with my 500 and the new 100-400 MkII lenses. My 1DX definitely snaps into focus faster.

As someone pointed out on a different thread the 1DX is now the smallest sensor DSLR in terms of MP that Canon produce. But for me in terms of overall image quality across a wide range of ISO it can't be beaten. I just wish that canon would release a firmware update for the 1Dx that incorporates a couple of the custom settings from the 7D MkII.
 
I ahve shot iso 12800 with the mkIV and been published
 
In print noise isn't an issue, It's just colour and sharpness that also become a worry at that level, again if it tells the story, the paper will print it.

Having used both the 1DIV and 5D3, I feel that while the 1DIV is faster, the 5D3 IQ is much better. Just a lot richer and more detailed. For some reason the 5D3 using the same settings as the 1DIV under exposes a wee bit.

I don't like the difference in the two bodies with regards to button placement. It's annoying when in the thick of it. I think the only real fast companion to a 5D3 would be the 7D2 in that respect but I am now wondering if I put the 1DIV on too high a pedestal. It's really just brought to light how good the 5D3 is. Albeit slower, but when looking at the images after, it's clear to see what was used. I worry that using a 1.6x sensor would make this worse as the light fades.
 
I felt the only limiting factor, excluding build quality, on the 5D3 was its FPS. Cropping in to the same field of view as the MkIV still gave plenty of MP. 15 I think if memory serves me right.

It was this ability to crop in that made my MKIV pretty much redundant. But then I'm not shooting football etc so maybe I would have found other limitations on the 5D3 if I did.

I don't think that the 7DMkII would fare any better than the MkIV. It's quite easy to see which have been taken on the crop sensor and which on the FF still. IMHO for ultimate image quality the 5D3 shows the 7D MKIi and the MkIV the door.

Looks like you're gonna have to buy a 1DX :)
 
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If I could get a 1D-X with a fast lens loading system. One that with the turn of the wrist loaded a different lens then it would be a win lol. Everyone else seems to get on fine with that combo I have so I'm probably being a dumbo.

I've been seeing a lot more people on the sidelines using Nikon lately. I wonder if there's a wind of change a foot.
 
Sporty_Tog said:
If I could get a 1D-X with a fast lens loading system. One that with the turn of the wrist loaded a different lens then it would be a win lol. Everyone else seems to get on fine with that combo I have so I'm probably being a dumbo.

I've been seeing a lot more people on the sidelines using Nikon lately. I wonder if there's a wind of change a foot.
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That wind of change happened a few years ago when Canon f***ed up the AF on the MKIII, bucket loads of pros switched to Nikon D3 and D3S's including myself, even the 1DX cant touch the D3S for low light high ISO noise free images and the Nikon has had 2 upgrades since then, even the D750 beats the 1DS for high ISO performance

I loved Canon but in my eyes they screwed up the AF after the MKIIN, they just over complicated everything, to this day with a Nikon you just turn it on, select AF-C (AI-Servo) and fire away

All these shot at ISO 12,800 and f/4 and a few in camera little tricks i learned to use to my benefit

http://gcsports.zenfolio.com/p976754773

http://gcsports.zenfolio.com/p955897307

http://gcsports.zenfolio.com/p1062467080
 
...and yet strangely there are quite a few agency stringers switching to Canon at the moment.
 
DemiLion said:
...and yet strangely there are quite a few agency stringers switching to Canon at the moment.
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It's because of the full moon Mark, a few go nuts once a month.

Theres always switchers, i did it 3 times myself but found Nikon was just right for me just like some will find Canon fits the bill for them.
 
twhite87 said:
That's what I was thinking. Will the 1DmkIV focus at f8? I was thinking of having my 300 2.8 with a 2x and 1.4x stacked. Although 600mm for me is ample for grouse and kingfishers @Sporty_Tog
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Depends which version of the TCs you have (both of mine are the MKII versions which you can stack), but I was surprised this worked on my 20D with the TCs stacked on the 300mm f2.8, also used this combination on my 1D MKIIn. That combination with MKII TCs would work on your 1D MKIV.
IMG_6377copy1.jpg
 
I can't really fault the MkIV, not that I would be qualified to anyway. I shot a youth football tournament all weekend with it. 73% battery left after 5-6 hours action shooting. It's just a beast of a camera. Anything above ISO2500 tends to be washed out and greeny looking which annoyed me a wee bit. Guy sat next to me in the last pro game I did and was using the D4S. I was very impressed. He did mention that he felt Canon has fallen right behind. It's horses for courses really. I use what will do the job and when it stops me doing the job I'll get shot of it. This kit is used by so many so i have no real reason to rubbish it.

The 7D2 flicker detection would have come in handy over the weekend though lol. Indoor lights were killing me.
 
I've just bought a 1dmk4 second hand to upgrade from the 5d2.
Got a 70-200 2.8 is mk 1.
Will this be a good (ish) combo?
 
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