Critique A Little Feedback and some questions

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caitlinjade95

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caitlin
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So I've been a little inactive recently and not posted a thread in a while. I've been practising different methods as much as I can and had the opportunity to take some photos of a little boy who is a friend of the family. I wondered if anyone had any websites they know of or can recommend from experience who sell backdrops. I love the look of black and white backdrops but I want to add a little variety and try some different ideas.

For images with a white background my usual go to method is to adjust the levels to brighten up the whites (usually lasso around the subject and invert it then it just selects the background) from there i will zoom in super super close and pick up my dodge tool and go around the child and neaten up any edges. I do the same for the black. Is this anything like what anyone else does? I find my white backgrounds don't show up as white as they are to the eye, probably down to lighting?

I have been researching alot about lighting and I wondered what set up everyone uses for newborn/toddler child photography portraits. At the moment mine is very basic I just use one continuous lighting soft box to light my subject, natural light just isn't as light as I would like my place is quite dim. So i thought hearing others lighting go to's may help me in my research!

I still need to touch up on the black background I just wondered if i could get any feedback on the lighting/images!

IMG_6363.jpg IMG_6113 bw.jpg IMG_6006.jpg
 
Achieving pure white, blown backgrounds usually involves a little touch up. To do it properly, you need to overexposed the BG by around 2 stops to the subject. So typically if your subject is at f8, the background is f16. Quickest way to clean up is with the adjustment brush in LR. Set the exposure at +2 stops, make sure the box is ticked to protect edges and paint away, done in 20 seconds. I reckon you will struggle though with one light, you need a bit of power to blow the BG out and continuous generally won't give you the punch that a studio flash will. Experiment with a nice grey BG and forget the White ;)

You need to control the spill with black backgrounds by flagging the lights and bringing your subject away from it. Exact exposure is made all the more difficult if you have kids moving around, so best bet is to have your light not so close. It means you will lose a little softness but there's a bit more latitude with light fall off, space permitting. I find that shooting at home normally means that there's a compromise somewhere in there.
 
Use the flash you have, I don't understand how you can be consistently given exactly the same advice and choose to ignore it so consistently.

Unless I've missed all the threads where other people have told you continuous light is great for portraits :thinking:
 
Thanks for the tips on the white background I'll have a play around with light room! I find it quite intimidating, im so used to Photoshop but with some tutorials online I'm sure it wont be as hard as I make it!!
Yes, I don't have a great amount of space, it involves me moving furnutire around to have just enough space haha! But there is some room to move the light around Thankyou for your help and tips!
 
Phil V said:
Use the flash you have, I don't understand how you can be consistently given exactly the same advice and choose to ignore it so consistently.

Unless I've missed all the threads where other people have told you continuous light is great for portraits :thinking:
Click to expand...

I struggle with the flash I don't understand it very well and ive looked so many times to find an unboxing video, tutorial, how to use it and what it all does. I had some plays around with it taking photos of my mum but I couldn't stop the orange colour coming through and when I could get it to flash it would flash alot in one go, I'm just worried it's not good for babies eyes? I want to be able to use the flash but I want to try to understand it first :)
 
caitlinjade95 said:
I struggle with the flash I don't understand it very well and ive looked so many times to find an unboxing video, tutorial, how to use it and what it all does. I had some plays around with it taking photos of my mum but I couldn't stop the orange colour coming through and when I could get it to flash it would flash alot in one go, I'm just worried it's not good for babies eyes? I want to be able to use the flash but I want to try to understand it first :)
Click to expand...
Those units are about as low powered as it's possible to buy, they'll do no damage to a babies eyes, it shouldn't take longer than an hour to learn how to put it together and get it to fire :).

Set the camera on manual, choose a nice fastish shutter speed and low ISO (to kill the ambient) and you can chimp for the right aperture.
100 ISO, 1/160 shutter speed and try f5.6 at a reasonable distance. But remember that the shutter speed doesn't control your exposure at all (it's just a safe speed - set and forget) so to alter your exposure you have to use: ISO, aperture, power setting on the flash and the distance from flash to subject.

Your framing and camera craft is improving but you haven't grabbed the 'technical' by the scruff of the neck yet. It's really not difficult and you have to do it before the other stuff will come together.
 
Hi Caitlin

I'm not going to comment on the photos above as, no offence, your lighting issues have been covered time and time again. But, I'd just like to share with you some friendly advice that I think relates to where you are now. Take it or leave it, it's offered with the best intentions. It's what I've learned. :)
  1. Know the shots you want and learn how to (technically and kit wise) achieve them.
  2. Know your kit, inside and out, take the time to learn all you can about it, specifically your lighting. Be accepting in it's limitations, be encouraged by what it CAN do. Google is your best friend, so do your homework.
  3. Evaluate your own kit against point 1, what is honestly achievable, what isn't.
  4. Accept the things you cannot change.
  5. Understand that just because you did everything point by point, it may not work the first time. And that's ok.
  6. Don’t put all your eggs in the ‘I can fix it in post’ basket.
  7. Get to your happy place technical and style wise with what you’ve got, don’t try to over-complicate things trying to get those shots that realistically you need more or better kit for.
Oh.. and get yourself a grey card for white balance. :)
 
All that work in post sounds awful to me. I hate selecting stuff, does my nut in.

See if you can get a vopy of Zack Arias One Light or Joe McNally Language of Light. They're very inspirational and jam packed with info and advice.

Stick with one light first. Learn it. Learn how it works and how you can modify it to make it work for you. Then and only then add a second light if you feel that one light is holding you back. Then learn how to use a main/key light along with a kicker/hair light and so on.

Just my opinion, feel free to tell me shut up. :D
 
Phil V said:
Those units are about as low powered as it's possible to buy, they'll do no damage to a babies eyes, it shouldn't take longer than an hour to learn how to put it together and get it to fire :).

Set the camera on manual, choose a nice fastish shutter speed and low ISO (to kill the ambient) and you can chimp for the right aperture.
100 ISO, 1/160 shutter speed and try f5.6 at a reasonable distance. But remember that the shutter speed doesn't control your exposure at all (it's just a safe speed - set and forget) so to alter your exposure you have to use: ISO, aperture, power setting on the flash and the distance from flash to subject.

Your framing and camera craft is improving but you haven't grabbed the 'technical' by the scruff of the neck yet. It's really not difficult and you have to do it before the other stuff will come together.
Click to expand...

I'm getting better at using my camera and I can see that im improving and thankyou for the above information, this weekend im going to have a proper sit down and have a look at it. I have it up and running ETC it's the putting it into practice I was struggling with and also a little cautious about the brightness against babies eyes. It's just another thing I need to get used to which of course is why I asked about lighting because that is the thing now that I really want to improve on!
 
sunnyside_up said:
Hi Caitlin

I'm not going to comment on the photos above as, no offence, your lighting issues have been covered time and time again. But, I'd just like to share with you some friendly advice that I think relates to where you are now. Take it or leave it, it's offered with the best intentions. It's what I've learned. :)
  1. Know the shots you want and learn how to (technically and kit wise) achieve them.
  2. Know your kit, inside and out, take the time to learn all you can about it, specifically your lighting. Be accepting in it's limitations, be encouraged by what it CAN do. Google is your best friend, so do your homework.
  3. Evaluate your own kit against point 1, what is honestly achievable, what isn't.
  4. Accept the things you cannot change.
  5. Understand that just because you did everything point by point, it may not work the first time. And that's ok.
  6. Don’t put all your eggs in the ‘I can fix it in post’ basket.
  7. Get to your happy place technical and style wise with what you’ve got, don’t try to over-complicate things trying to get those shots that realistically you need more or better kit for.
Oh.. and get yourself a grey card for white balance. :)
Click to expand...

No no I totally appreciate any advice given to me and I'll work my bum off to improve them. My lighting was really frustrating me I don't know any other photographers so the only place I can ask is on here for advice etc but when googling lighting and looking at tutorials what works for what etc my brain gets flooded with millions of lighting that is supposed to be the best but I leave still non the wiser lol I figured if I asked on here I might be able to hear lots of different suggestions and get a little more from them :)

Im quite happy with the kit that ive got the backgrounds drive me insane because I just don't feel like I have a variety and I've got lots of people asking for photos and they are all either with a blanket or with a black or white sheet but I'm sure as time goes on I'll collect things along the way.

Im naturally the type of person that wants everything they need to get started but sadly that isn't going to work lol so I guess I just need to build but my lighting is what I really want to improve on now!

Thankyou for your advice!
 
minnnt said:
All that work in post sounds awful to me. I hate selecting stuff, does my nut in.

See if you can get a vopy of Zack Arias One Light or Joe McNally Language of Light. They're very inspirational and jam packed with info and advice.

Stick with one light first. Learn it. Learn how it works and how you can modify it to make it work for you. Then and only then add a second light if you feel that one light is holding you back. Then learn how to use a main/key light along with a kicker/hair light and so on.

Just my opinion, feel free to tell me shut up. :D
Click to expand...

I won't tell you to shut up lol any advice I appreciate!
I'm using one light at the moment but it's just a softbox with no control over the power it has it's literally on and off and that is all!

I'll have a mooch on amazon for those, I'm sure they will have them! thanks
 
Putting the technical aspects to one side for a while...
Something Bethy said here:
sunnyside_up said:
...
Evaluate your own kit against point 1, what is honestly achievable, what isn't.
Accept the things you cannot change.
don’t try to over-complicate things trying to get those shots that realistically you need more or better kit for.
Click to expand...

I spent my first few years of portraiture and weddings depressing myself because I didn't have the best gear, I didn't have the fancy locations and beautiful subjects etc. I was trying desperately to recreate images that were impossible for me. Now there's some learning that happens when you do that, but the learning doesn't land until you realise that the impossible really is the impossible. You can only shoot your subject, and you can only use the gear you have to hand.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, but with careful composition and lighting, you can make a great picture of a sows ear. I wish someone had told me that 25 years ago. Make the most of what you have rather than trying to make it into something it isn't.
 
caitlinjade95 said:
I struggle with the flash I don't understand it very well and ive looked so many times to find an unboxing video, tutorial, how to use it and what it all does. I had some plays around with it taking photos of my mum but I couldn't stop the orange colour coming through and when I could get it to flash it would flash alot in one go, I'm just worried it's not good for babies eyes? I want to be able to use the flash but I want to try to understand it first :)
Click to expand...

It sounds as though trying to google things and apply the results to your situation has confused you senseless.

Find a local photographer you respect and pay for a couple of hours 1-1 training to get your head around the flashgun - and white balance.
If and when you start using studio lighting do the same again.

Seriously, the best money I've spent on photography has been on training, and I'm good at interpreting books and videos.
 
juggler said:
It sounds as though trying to google things and apply the results to your situation has confused you senseless.

Find a local photographer you respect and pay for a couple of hours 1-1 training to get your head around the flashgun - and white balance.
If and when you start using studio lighting do the same again.

Seriously, the best money I've spent on photography has been on training, and I'm good at interpreting books and videos.
Click to expand...

This.
 
Thankyou I do find i learn much better hands on rather then trying to gather information I get all confused and it drives me insane lol!!

I did ask the photographer if I could pay for a couple of her hours to have a chat etc but she wasn't very happy with my messaging dispite me being very polite and asking for a helping hand. I paid for my neice to have a photoshoot when she was a newborn and my sister went to school with her so I was a little taken aback, it put me off a little too!
 
I'm not defending the photographer's actions, but it could be that she was just too busy, or perhaps didn't want to share her knowledge... which is a shame.

Caitlin, if you can get down to my area, I'm more than happy to have you sit in on a shoot sometime in the new year... show you how I work a shoot...
 
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caitlinjade95 said:
Thankyou I do find i learn much better hands on rather then trying to gather information I get all confused and it drives me insane lol!!

I did ask the photographer if I could pay for a couple of her hours to have a chat etc but she wasn't very happy with my messaging dispite me being very polite and asking for a helping hand. I paid for my neice to have a photoshoot when she was a newborn and my sister went to school with her so I was a little taken aback, it put me off a little too!
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm not surprised. There are those who happily share their knowledge and expertise and offer this as part of their business but the overwhelming majority don't and would see you as potential competition. Also asking for a "couple of hours" might have insinuated to her that's all you thought it would take.

If I were you I'd look for workshops or photographers who specifically offer 121 or group tuition.
 
sunnyside_up said:
I'm not defending the photographer's actions, but it could be that she was just too busy, or perhaps didn't want to share her knowledge... which is a shame.

Caitlin, if you can get down to my area, I'm more than happy to have you sit in on a shoot sometime in the new year... show you how I work a shoot...
Click to expand...

That is so kind! I appreciate that ALOT!
I didn't take offence it did put me off reaching out but I wasn't angry at her, I can kind of see how she would have felt too!
 
UaeExile said:
To be honest I'm not surprised. There are those who happily share their knowledge and expertise and offer this as part of their business but the overwhelming majority don't and would see you as potential competition. Also asking for a "couple of hours" might have insinuated to her that's all you thought it would take.

If I were you I'd look for workshops or photographers who specifically offer 121 or group tuition.
Click to expand...
That's my next goal! I can kind of see where she's coming from an I wasn't angry by it or offended etc I was just a little bit taken a back but I can see from what you have said how she may have seen it!
 
caitlinjade95 said:
That is so kind! I appreciate that ALOT!
I didn't take offence it did put me off reaching out but I wasn't angry at her, I can kind of see how she would have felt too!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't if i were you... She might come across as all sweetness and light on here, but in real life she's a complete f*****g nutter. :runaway:

:D
 
Hi Caitlin

Having photographed my two boys for many years now the best advice I can give here is to get down onto the level of the children or below when photographing them, as adults we get used to looking down on small children but getting down onto their level or even looking slightly up towards them makes the images far more interesting as far as I am concerned.

If the child is very small this will unfortunately involve lots of lying on the floor or (my favorite ruse) a high chair and something to occupy them while you take photos.

Can post some examples if you like but don't want to fill up your post with pictures of my kids :)

HTH

David
 
minnnt said:
I wouldn't if i were you... She might come across as all sweetness and light on here, but in real life she's a complete f*****g nutter. :runaway:

:D
Click to expand...
Haha! THAT is too funny! Only one other person ever referred to me as 'sweetness and light' and I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic too! :p
 
Phil V said:
...

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, but with careful composition and lighting, you can make a great picture of a sows ear. I wish someone had told me that 25 years ago. Make the most of what you have rather than trying to make it into something it isn't.
Click to expand...
Just to put an update on this; I thought I'd put my camera where my big mouth was, so I've started a mini project inspired by my post above, it's here if anyone is interested.
 
Phil V said:
Just to put an update on this; I thought I'd put my camera where my big mouth was, so I've started a mini project inspired by my post above, it's here if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...
You've lost your mind, you know that right, Phil? Lol!
 
Anything other than your pop up flash is going to help improve things. A speedlite used on camera, with it's movable head, will allow you to bounce the light about, rather than hitting someone with it head on, thus the 'dear in the headlights' look. It's the first step in upping your game. But get it OFF camera, and you're opening yourself up to a whole new world of creative potential. Off camera lighting will help you to achieve shape, depth and dimension. Use it in conjunction with light modifiers such as umbrellas, softboxes, grids, gels, barn doors (the list goes on) and you've got yourself a party. I'd suggest though to look at being able to fire that baby wirelessly. The same company make some awesome triggers / receivers so I hear (I use SMDV so can't comment from experience).

I'm actually surprised that you don't have a speedlight already... that purchase alone will help you to produce better results than what you're getting now, in my opinion. You just need to take the time to learn...
 
I find them very intimidating/not actually knowing if they will do what I want but I've been re searching like crazyyyyy on lighting and have put some money aside for when the time comes that I can step up. So ditch my softbox (continous and what ive been using) and switch it up for the one I sent you on the link?

My softboxes came with a spare stand so I think i need an adapter for the speedlite for it to fit on, would it be a hot shoe adapter? and then was also going to ask what would be best an umbrella or a soft box for it? I've also seen some triggers from the same brand that will fire it but not quite sure how they work but more re search will fix that hopefully lol!

I will get the hang of it im constantly trying to get better and take on board what everyone suggests to me. I love taking photos, always have now I just need to get better at the actual execution and techniques!:)
 
The problem is Caitlin you just don't seem to listen. I remember Phil writing several lengthy posts to you about lighting a subject then you ask the most basic question about OCF. It's like groundhog day whenever I read your posts.

The answer is YES!!!!!! Taking the flash off camera opens up an unlimited amount of lighting possibilities and removes the restrictions of pop up/on camera flash. There's no right or wrong answer on what to buy and everyones opinions will differ but if I were you on a limited budget then I'd buy the following.

1. Two cheap Yongnuo manual speedlights.... Cheaper than the ones you've linked because you don't need TTL. IMO you need to learn about light, not have your flash do it for you. You can get two of these for the same price as the one you linked.
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/YONGNUO-YN5...1445490971&sr=1-1&keywords=yongnuo+yn-560+iii)

2. Two light stands to put them on..... I think you have these already. You just need something like this to put your flash on....... £6.99.
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kaavie-Univ...421_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=02AP7VFWV0KTJ32SRSG5)

3. Shoot through umbrella. Cheap but effective for softening light....... £4.50.
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Phot-R®-Professional-Translucent-Collapsible-Umbrella/dp/B00IIQAYUO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1445490938&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=white+umbrella&psc=1)

4. A soft box for speedlights. Tons on Amazon but I've not used any.

5. Receivers & a trigger.... cheap Yongnuos.

That lot there will probably come out at just over £100 brand new but you could look to ebay and drive that price right down. You could also just go with one light one umbrella to get you started.

You really need to get over the fact you find flash intimidating. What's the worst that could happen? You take a ton of crap photos? Who cares? I'd rather take 1000 s***ty photos intentionally than fluke one amazing shot and you should feel the same. If your scared of screwing up in front of people buy a big teddy and practice on that. Take your stand with flash and umbrella and plonk it just off to the side. Is the photo too bright? Turn down the flash. Literally. Just press the DOWN button a few times. Is it too dark? Yup, you guessed it, press UP a few times. Is the light too harsh with strong shadows? Move the umbrella closer to your subject. Is it too soft? Move it away... Respond to what you see and make adjustments as you go.

I know you want to create amazing newborn/toddler images but you also need to be realistic, like Bethy says, about what you can reasonably achieve given your experience, equipment, and all of the other factors that come into play. Are you going to create the same images you're probably looking at online with the gear I've listed above? Probably not. Most of them are as a result of hours and hours of taking crappy images of the big teddy bear and learning from their mistakes. that and building up their gear to huge lighting modifiers and elaborate backdrop set ups.

Practice. Practice. Practice.
 
I listen to every word everyone says to me I practise constantly at weekends and it may not seem that I do but I really do. I'm not expecting to be the next big shot out there, I'm really not I just want to achieve nice photos I aim for people to say 'nice lighting' when I post my pics up for crit. That may not be for the next 8 months but I'm learning what I can.

Thanks for the flash recommendation and yes, I was going to get an umbrella and light stand and use it that way and then just need to find a trigger for it.

I'm not expecting to be perfect at it, nobody is are they I guess but I just want to move away from my continuous lighting and progress onto something that's a good starting point for me to learn (isn't that what everyone has been saying?)

The teddy is a good idea, gives me a chance to practise without chasing my niece around the place to snap some photos lol. I know some of my questions may seem basic but im sure you guys would put me in the beginner category so I try and take every chance to ask about things I don't understand but I see your point.

Thanks for those recommendations, they helped alot and I'll be getting the flash some point this weekend!
 
caitlinjade95 said:
I find them very intimidating/not actually knowing if they will do what I want but I've been re searching like crazyyyyy on lighting and have put some money aside for when the time comes that I can step up. So ditch my softbox (continous and what ive been using) and switch it up for the one I sent you on the link?

My softboxes came with a spare stand so I think i need an adapter for the speedlite for it to fit on, would it be a hot shoe adapter? and then was also going to ask what would be best an umbrella or a soft box for it? I've also seen some triggers from the same brand that will fire it but not quite sure how they work but more re search will fix that hopefully lol!

I will get the hang of it im constantly trying to get better and take on board what everyone suggests to me. I love taking photos, always have now I just need to get better at the actual execution and techniques!:)
Click to expand...

juggler said:
It sounds as though trying to google things and apply the results to your situation has confused you senseless.

Find a local photographer you respect and pay for a couple of hours 1-1 training to get your head around the flashgun - and white balance.
If and when you start using studio lighting do the same again.

Seriously, the best money I've spent on photography has been on training, and I'm good at interpreting books and videos.
Click to expand...

Caitlin, it's so frustrating watching you flail around and struggle to achieve what you want. I'll say it again..

Go and pay for some training
​
I know the first photographer you approached wasn't interested but there are many, many more out there who will be.
If you really can't afford 1-1 training then get yourself to a camera club where someone will only be too glad to help.

It's up to you whether you buy flashes first or not but without training I suspect that you'll end up with a pile of kit and no idea how it goes together.
 
Adam, I'm going through the process of getting the flash you suggested and there is a discount code on ebay, even better! found the flash there you suggested and I know you said two flashes 2 light stands so I'll need two umbrellas, right? Do you think it'd be possible to get one flash one stand one umbrella and one adaptor as I can't afford anything at the moment and then put the other flash on my birthday wishlist in December haha! I'm just thinking it'll allow me some time to practise with the one and introduce the second? I just thought I'd see if that would help me at all!

and when it's off the hot shoe on the camera and on the light stand it won't work without a trigger, will it? I'm trying to hunt one down, does it need to be the same model etc?
 
I think it's more than reasonable to start with one flash Caitlin.. don't run before you can walk. Master a one light setup. Then move onto two.
 
sunnyside_up said:
I think it's more than reasonable to start with one flash Caitlin.. don't run before you can walk. Master a one light setup. Then move onto two.
Click to expand...

I would like to add to Bethy's one light suggestion and say, add a reflector too Caitlin.
One flash plus a reflector and you could achieve such a lot on a relatively small budget.
 
sunnyside_up said:
I think it's more than reasonable to start with one flash Caitlin.. don't run before you can walk. Master a one light setup. Then move onto two.
Click to expand...
I thought that I think I'm going to stick with one for the time being get to grasps with the basics of lighting and work up from there! It's just finding the right trigger I'm struggling with at the moment
 
caitlinjade95 said:
I thought that I think I'm going to stick with one for the time being get to grasps with the basics of lighting and work up from there! It's just finding the right trigger I'm struggling with at the moment
Click to expand...
You could always get yourself an off camera cord... that's an option too.
 
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