Critique A Little Feedback and some questions

sunnyside_up said:
You could always get yourself an off camera cord... that's an option too.
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ah, so like a wire that goes from the camera to the flash? That could work, knowing me I'll fall over the flipping thing lol I'll try having a look on ebay for one now!:)
 
You can get them in 1m, 3m and 10m lengths... it's just an option. But eventually when you're firing two flashes at once, you'll need wireless triggers. This is just an alternative suggestion for now.. for one flash.
 
sunnyside_up said:
You can get them in 1m, 3m and 10m lengths... it's just an option. But eventually when you're firing two flashes at once, you'll need wireless triggers. This is just an alternative suggestion for now.. for one flash.
Click to expand...

I think I already have a PC sync cable I used to plug it into my laptop and then into my camera too and be able to use it remotely, maybe I'm thinking of something different I'll get another just in case!
 
I think i have one of those from the flash that Phil sent me, I'll double check before buying one but if I don't have one then I'll pick one up! Thankyou!
 
juggler said:
I thought they were constant CFLs? Or maybe she has those two?
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She definitely has a couple of these (older version though), which I don't think have ever been used by her.

Which didn't stop her buying some CFL's, despite many times being told not to.

And now a flashgun is the answer? :banghead:
 
It sounds like you have the necessary equipment already Caitlin.
I've seen something similar before where another person collected the necessary kit for a particular project. They wanted everything in place before starting but I don't think they ever got around to it.
You need to practice, make mistakes, practice again, rinse and repeat IIRC this has been previously mentioned too.
Reading between the lines, I think you need to bite the bullet and get stuck in. There's loads of fantastic advice above, just go for it.
 
Phil ive mentioned many times on this thread, several infact that I struggle with the things that I got from you, no fault of yours not saying that at all but I just couldn't figure them out, I did tonnes of re search and struggled to find anything on them I have mentioned this previously, the orange glow I couldn't seem to remove and the very powerful brusts of light even on the low setting I feared would hurt the eyes of a child. I have already mentioned this.

I have been recommended to get the flash guns off lots of people now and it seemed to be the way forward for me. At the moment I feel a little stuck with the should I shouldn't I what should I use what is right situation. Each photo I have posted on here lighting has been an issue and my soft boxes, as you and many others have said are not suitable there for the flash would be.

You can clearly see my plans and what I want to do with them I'm not getting them for the fun of it I'm getting them to practice lighting and make my photos better and learn what I can about lighting. You say I don't listen to anything you say and then when I do litern and just about to purchase them...you say I have already got everything I need.

I really don't know what more I can do I can't go any further having my soft boxes can I so I don't know what more to do lighting wise to make them better. It's very frustrating and just when I feel I'm on the right track im back to square one lol.

What's the harm in me buying a flash to learn about lighting and totally ditch the soft box which isn't giving the effect that is pleasing at all? I can't see any harm I need to move forward some how so this is what I plan to do I already have most of what I need I just need the flash and an umbrella and it's £30 for everything I need including the flash. I'm going to hold off buying them until Monday, if your saying I have what I need then I will try and try and see. I'll have another go with what you gave me phil and try to find some more info on the internet about it.

I have seen some courses in Manchester for the new year that I'm really interested in going for so I'm going to bite the bullet and go for those especially the lighting for beginners one I have seen and one on studio lighting too. Hopefully that will give me more insight to the whole thing.

All I can do is try, so that's what I'm going to CONTINUE to do.

Thankyou for your advice if I haven't already thanked you!
 
Don't buy anything else!!!! A softbox is usually easier to control than a brolly.

For the orange glow.. Learn about white balance.

As to whether flash is bad for newborns - you need to consult either an optician or a specialist newborn photography tutor.
 
juggler said:
Don't buy anything else!!!! A softbox is usually easier to control than a brolly.

For the orange glow.. Learn about white balance.

As to whether flash is bad for newborns - you need to consult either an optician or a specialist newborn photography tutor.
Click to expand...

It's something I'd certainly like to ask about and find out. When I say softbox it's a continuous lighting one and have taken on everyones comments about not using it in my photos. All photos on this thread I used my soft box and all photos were lacking good lighting etc in the comments. So I thought that the continous softbox light was ruled out. It's just one bulb very bright but with the diffuser too but of course, now way to control the strength so it was advised not to use it.

I mean the flash actually fires orange, if I use a white back drop it tends to put an orange cast on the background it doesn't actually make the entire photo orange if that makes sense!

So don't buy anything else but don't use what I've got? What should I do then lol
 
caitlinjade95 said:
It's something I'd certainly like to ask about and find out. When I say softbox it's a continuous lighting one and have taken on everyones comments about not using it in my photos. All photos on this thread I used my soft box and all photos were lacking good lighting etc in the comments. So I thought that the continous softbox light was ruled out. It's just one bulb very bright but with the diffuser too but of course, now way to control the strength so it was advised not to use it.

I mean the flash actually fires orange, if I use a white back drop it tends to put an orange cast on the background it doesn't actually make the entire photo orange if that makes sense!

So don't buy anything else but don't use what I've got? What should I do then lol
Click to expand...
Lay all your gear put and take a photo and post it.

Also take some orange pics and post them too.
 
caitlinjade95 said:
It's something I'd certainly like to ask about and find out. When I say softbox it's a continuous lighting one and have taken on everyones comments about not using it in my photos. All photos on this thread I used my soft box and all photos were lacking good lighting etc in the comments. So I thought that the continous softbox light was ruled out. It's just one bulb very bright but with the diffuser too but of course, now way to control the strength so it was advised not to use it.

I mean the flash actually fires orange, if I use a white back drop it tends to put an orange cast on the background it doesn't actually make the entire photo orange if that makes sense!

So don't buy anything else but don't use what I've got? What should I do then lol
Click to expand...
If you watch a few newborn tutorials online, you'll see they all use flash, you can ask about, you can go on a course, you can buy a book, but one of our resident newborn photographers told you flash is the way to go right at the beginning of this. (I'll return to this)

The orange on your backdrop is your 'not flash' exposure, it's the tungsten light in the room because you have exposed for the ambient, or allowed too much of it into your shot.
More later, I'm off to work.
 
caitlinjade95 said:
It's something I'd certainly like to ask about and find out. When I say softbox it's a continuous lighting one and have taken on everyones comments about not using it in my photos. All photos on this thread I used my soft box and all photos were lacking good lighting etc in the comments. So I thought that the continous softbox light was ruled out. It's just one bulb very bright but with the diffuser too but of course, now way to control the strength so it was advised not to use it.

I mean the flash actually fires orange, if I use a white back drop it tends to put an orange cast on the background it doesn't actually make the entire photo orange if that makes sense!

So don't buy anything else but don't use what I've got? What should I do then lol
Click to expand...

1. Put your studio strobes in your softboxes
2. Learn about white balance
3. GET SOME TRAINING

Seriously, we're all trying to help but it doesn't seem to be working. Admittedly an Internet forum isn't always the best medium for giving detailed explanations - especially when lots of people join in - but by your own admission you're not good at following written or video instructions.
 
caitlinjade95 said:
Phil ive mentioned many times on this thread, several infact that I struggle with the things that I got from you, no fault of yours not saying that at all but I just couldn't figure them out, I did tonnes of re search and struggled to find anything on them I have mentioned this previously, the orange glow I couldn't seem to remove and the very powerful brusts of light even on the low setting I feared would hurt the eyes of a child. I have already mentioned this.
Click to expand...
This made me go all Yoda...
Do or not do, there is no try.

I can sense your frustration, and it is quite contagious too ;),
If you could be more specific about the problems you have with the kit as they occur you'll get help, but 'I struggle with the things..' isn't really enough to go on.

The problem seems to be that you compound your problems by adding further issues you don't understand to make something really complicated when it needn't be, this increases your frustration needlessly, and is the reason we all start this by saying 'one light first - understand it then build', your reaction to your lack of success is to start off in a different direction, that'll never help.

Put the lights up, and take an image and tell us or show us what you've got and we'll sort out the issue. I promise.


caitlinjade95 said:
...
I have been recommended to get the flash guns off lots of people now and it seemed to be the way forward for me. At the moment I feel a little stuck with the should I shouldn't I what should I use what is right situation. Each photo I have posted on here lighting has been an issue and my soft boxes, as you and many others have said are not suitable there for the flash would be...
What's the harm in me buying a flash to learn about lighting and totally ditch the soft box which isn't giving the effect that is pleasing at all? I can't see any harm I need to move forward some how so this is what I plan to do I already have most of what I need I just need the flash and an umbrella and it's £30 for everything I need including the flash. I'm going to hold off buying them until Monday, if your saying I have what I need then I will try and try and see. I'll have another go with what you gave me phil and try to find some more info on the internet about it...
Click to expand...
People who are recommending you get a flashgun, have done so not knowing that you already have studio lights. Flashguns are fine, studio heads are easier to use by a factor of 10.

If you want to dump the flash heads and go for a speedlight kit, I can give you a shopping list (I've done it for plenty of others) but it won't help with your issues without the tenacity you have lacked thus far. In fact it'll make it harder for you.

caitlinjade95 said:
...
You can clearly see my plans and what I want to do with them I'm not getting them for the fun of it I'm getting them to practice lighting and make my photos better and learn what I can about lighting. You say I don't listen to anything you say and then when I do litern and just about to purchase them...you say I have already got everything I need.
I really don't know what more I can do I can't go any further having my soft boxes can I so I don't know what more to do lighting wise to make them better. It's very frustrating and just when I feel I'm on the right track im back to square one lol...
Click to expand...

I understand your plans. I train adults on a regular basis, and there's nothing more frustrating than someone who has already closed their mind to an idea. As I said above, when you get to a problem - ask. Don't wait till you've made it more complicated,learning is based on one step at a time, and there are lots of us here that have gone through the same learning, your only 'uniqueness' is that when you get stuck, you go off on a different course of action. and then come back for guidance, having confused yourself more by adding more problems.

You need to start at the beginning, take baby steps and it'll come together.

You should never have to start from square one. But you keep doing so because you don't ask for help at square 2 or 3. So you see the only course of action is to return to square 1.
 
Phil V said:
People who are recommending you get a flashgun, have done so not knowing that you already have studio lights. Flashguns are fine, studio heads are easier to use by a factor of 10.

If you want to dump the flash heads and go for a speedlight kit, I can give you a shopping list (I've done it for plenty of others) but it won't help with your issues without the tenacity you have lacked thus far. In fact it'll make it harder for you.
Click to expand...

I'd just add a +1 on the above... The studio lights are FAR easier to control than a flashgun/speedlight - their output power is simply controlled by a rotary knob on the back - turn it one way the flash gets brighter, the other way the flash gets less bright. Speedlights are similar, but often controlled via menus, and can be much more involved / faffy to adjust for a newcomer (hell, I've been around cameras/photography lighting work for 30+ years and I still have to think about it with some of the flashguns).

BUT the real benefit isn't in that simplicity - it's that the studio flash also has a "modelling light" - so you can put the light on and move the studio head around until you get the light shining as you want to see it. Better still, you can sit behind the camera and ask someone else to move the light around and watch the effect of the movement through the viewfinder. Then when you've got the light shining where you want it, you can switch the modelling light off, connect the synch cord or wireless trigger between the head and the camera and press the shutter and see what it looks like with the flash. And if it's too bright, you turn the flash dial down, Too dim and you turn it up. press the "test" button on the back of the head, then go back to your camera and press the shutter again. And eventually you'll home in on what you want.

Incidentally - I'm guessing that the "orange" look you're getting is by having the camera set to "flash" white balance, and shooting at a shutter speed that is slow enough to capture some of the modelling light output as well as the flash... that's why I said above to turn off the modelling light after you got the light setup as you wanted it. If you actually set the camera properly with a short enough shutter speed, then it shouldn't matter if you turn off the modelling lights or not...
 
UaeExile said:
Lay all your gear put and take a photo and post it.

Also take some orange pics and post them too.
Click to expand...
Ill get a photo on here this weekend I'm going to spend the day tomorrow with my attention on the lighting off phil, I'm going to see if I can figure out the orange cast in the photos
 
Phil V said:
If you watch a few newborn tutorials online, you'll see they all use flash, you can ask about, you can go on a course, you can buy a book, but one of our resident newborn photographers told you flash is the way to go right at the beginning of this. (I'll return to this)

The orange on your backdrop is your 'not flash' exposure, it's the tungsten light in the room because you have exposed for the ambient, or allowed too much of it into your shot.
More later, I'm off to work.
Click to expand...
but when i use my soft boxes this doesnt happen?
 
caitlinjade95 said:
but when i use my soft boxes this doesnt happen?
Click to expand...
When you're using flash, are you putting your camera in Manual mode, ignore the metering, and choosing 1/160, ISO 100 and an aperture of around 5.6?

Or are you using the metered settings from the camera?


I know the answer to the above, you're using your metered settings, even though I did suggest those settings as a start point a while ago.

Using the cameras meter, is allowing in the ambient light, your flash is overpowering it (just) on your subject, which is giving you an unsharp subject and an orange background. It'll also be difficult using your ambient light metering to get the flash exposure low enough, which is why you think it's very bright.

That doesn't happen with the continuous lights, because they're closer in colour to your ambient and your metering for them is close to how you're used to shooting, so you are getting your expected results.

The answer is, when using flash as the only light source, start with the settings above and experiment till you get the exposure right on the subject. But only change the flash power, ISO and aperture, and do it carefully.

A flashgun would have given you exactly the same situation as the studio heads, leading to increased frustration and you looking for a different solution.
 
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Phil V said:
This made me go all Yoda...
Do or not do, there is no try.

I can sense your frustration, and it is quite contagious too ;),
If you could be more specific about the problems you have with the kit as they occur you'll get help, but 'I struggle with the things..' isn't really enough to go on.

The problem seems to be that you compound your problems by adding further issues you don't understand to make something really complicated when it needn't be, this increases your frustration needlessly, and is the reason we all start this by saying 'one light first - understand it then build', your reaction to your lack of success is to start off in a different direction, that'll never help.

Put the lights up, and take an image and tell us or show us what you've got and we'll sort out the issue. I promise.



People who are recommending you get a flashgun, have done so not knowing that you already have studio lights. Flashguns are fine, studio heads are easier to use by a factor of 10.

If you want to dump the flash heads and go for a speedlight kit, I can give you a shopping list (I've done it for plenty of others) but it won't help with your issues without the tenacity you have lacked thus far. In fact it'll make it harder for you.



I understand your plans. I train adults on a regular basis, and there's nothing more frustrating than someone who has already closed their mind to an idea. As I said above, when you get to a problem - ask. Don't wait till you've made it more complicated,learning is based on one step at a time, and there are lots of us here that have gone through the same learning, your only 'uniqueness' is that when you get stuck, you go off on a different course of action. and then come back for guidance, having confused yourself more by adding more problems.

You need to start at the beginning, take baby steps and it'll come together.

You should never have to start from square one. But you keep doing so because you don't ask for help at square 2 or 3. So you see the only course of action is to return to square 1.
Click to expand...
Thankyou for this reply phil, It literally sums me up. I get really frustrated at not being able to do things and understand them . I worry about posting here so often because there are so many professional photographers on here that are amazing at what they do and you have me come along and basically p*** everyone off lol.

I'm going to have a serious look at what you have given me over the weekend and I'll post some pics. Are they just studio lights when looking them up on the internet ive no idea what they are. I know what theyre not but there is so much out there that I don't actually know the correct term for what they are.

I do want to use one light and then build it up, I only use one light at the moment and was only going to get one flash too and then when my photos were improving I would maybe add another one but not for a long time!!

I haven't closed my mind to ideas, I'm always up for ideas I had done the most research on speedlights and had a much better understanding of any other lighting options plus as you say majority of new born photographers will use flash.

I will get some photos across this weekend :)
 
TheBigYin said:
I'd just add a +1 on the above... The studio lights are FAR easier to control than a flashgun/speedlight - their output power is simply controlled by a rotary knob on the back - turn it one way the flash gets brighter, the other way the flash gets less bright. Speedlights are similar, but often controlled via menus, and can be much more involved / faffy to adjust for a newcomer (hell, I've been around cameras/photography lighting work for 30+ years and I still have to think about it with some of the flashguns).

BUT the real benefit isn't in that simplicity - it's that the studio flash also has a "modelling light" - so you can put the light on and move the studio head around until you get the light shining as you want to see it. Better still, you can sit behind the camera and ask someone else to move the light around and watch the effect of the movement through the viewfinder. Then when you've got the light shining where you want it, you can switch the modelling light off, connect the synch cord or wireless trigger between the head and the camera and press the shutter and see what it looks like with the flash. And if it's too bright, you turn the flash dial down, Too dim and you turn it up. press the "test" button on the back of the head, then go back to your camera and press the shutter again. And eventually you'll home in on what you want.

Incidentally - I'm guessing that the "orange" look you're getting is by having the camera set to "flash" white balance, and shooting at a shutter speed that is slow enough to capture some of the modelling light output as well as the flash... that's why I said above to turn off the modelling light after you got the light setup as you wanted it. If you actually set the camera properly with a short enough shutter speed, then it shouldn't matter if you turn off the modelling lights or not...
Click to expand...

This is brilliant, thankyou it's give me a great starting point for getting to grips with it!! The section where you wrote about the modelling light was very helpful and I'll put that into practice this weekend to see what things I can do!
 
Phil V said:
When you're using flash, are you putting your camera in Manual mode, ignore the metering, and choosing 1/160, ISO 100 and an aperture of around 5.6?

Or are you using the metered settings from the camera?


I know the answer to the above, you're using your metered settings, even though I did suggest those settings as a start point a while ago.

Using the cameras meter, is allowing in the ambient light, your flash is overpowering it (just) on your subject, which is giving you an unsharp subject and an orange background. It'll also be difficult using your ambient light metering to get the flash exposure low enough, which is why you think it's very bright.

That doesn't happen with the continuous lights, because they're closer in colour to your ambient and your metering for them is close to how you're used to shooting, so you are getting your expected results.

The answer is, when using flash as the only light source, start with the settings above and experiment till you get the exposure right on the subject. But only change the flash power, ISO and aperture, and do it carefully.

A flashgun would have given you exactly the same situation as the studio heads, leading to increased frustration and you looking for a different solution.
Click to expand...

No, I use my camera on manual and yes the shutter speed I do for is 1/160 It's really bright so I use 100 iso and I don't use 5.6 I use 3.2 but I'll change that and see the difference.
 
We don't really have a simple generic name for studio lighting; we call them
Monolights
Studio lights
Studio flash
Mains flash
Studio heads
Flash heads

Technically there's a difference between a studio head and what you have, but you don't need that level of detail.

Put a girls world head on your dressing table and do what Mark suggested moving the light round it.
 
caitlinjade95 said:
No, I use my camera on manual and yes the shutter speed I do for is 1/160 It's really bright so I use 100 iso and I don't use 5.6 I use 3.2 but I'll change that and see the difference.
Click to expand...
At those numbers you shouldn't see the ambient on the background. If it happens again post an image. If you want help rather than critique post it in the lighting section with all your settings.

There's loads who visit there can give advice.
 
Ok so this is what I see on the back of the flash of course the sync bit is the lead that connects to the bit that goes on top of my hot shoe on my camera. Then when I press test it gives me a flash of light
The red one is on and off although when I switch it on there is not light coming through the actual softbox but the one on the far right if I flick that one it puts a warm light on that stays on. then the picture of the eye, is this to reduce red eye? I really don't know on that one!! and then the dial controls the power when I turn it to the right fully the burst of light is really strong I used it mostly on 1/4

IMG_6681.JPG
 
IMG_6683.JPG Light to the left on 1/4
IMG_6685.JPG then I tried it on full power and it was very bright to the left hand side
IMG_6690.JPG then I did it to the right but noticed alot of shadows to the left hand side then

I've played around with it lots this morning, not finished yet just wanted to send some photos across but I'm going to keep on having a go with it

Going to see if my mum will let me have a go so I can move the light fully around her to get a better perspective!!
 
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caitlinjade95 said:
Ok so this is what I see on the back of the flash of course the sync bit is the lead that connects to the bit that goes on top of my hot shoe on my camera. Then when I press test it gives me a flash of light
The red one is on and off although when I switch it on there is not light coming through the actual softbox but the one on the far right if I flick that one it puts a warm light on that stays on. then the picture of the eye, is this to reduce red eye? I really don't know on that one!! and then the dial controls the power when I turn it to the right fully the burst of light is really strong I used it mostly on 1/4

View attachment 48987
Click to expand...
The left switch turns the flash on,
The middle (with the eye) switches on the slave sensor (so it'll flash if it sees another flash)
The right switches on the modelling light.
The dial controls the power.
 
caitlinjade95 said:
View attachment 48988 Light to the left on 1/4
View attachment 48989 then I tried it on full power and it was very bright to the left hand side
View attachment 48990 then I did it to the right but noticed alot of shadows to the left hand side then

I've played around with it lots this morning, not finished yet just wanted to send some photos across but I'm going to keep on having a go with it

Going to see if my mum will let me have a go so I can move the light fully around her to get a better perspective!!
Click to expand...
1. A little bit over exposed, try a smaller aperture, or turning the flash power right down.
2. A lot overexposed
3. The flash is further away than in the first one, that's brought the exposure down (inverse square law) but also made the light relatively smaller, therefore making the shadows harder.

Edit to add
You need to lift your light higher, and obviously you wouldn't put a subject that close to a background unless you were aiming to 'use' the shadow for artistic effect.
 
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Phil V said:
The left switch turns the flash on,
The middle (with the eye) switches on the slave sensor (so it'll flash if it sees another flash)
The right switches on the modelling light.
The dial controls the power.
Click to expand...
nearly got it lol!
 
Phil V said:
1. A little bit over exposed, try a smaller aperture, or turning the flash power right down.
2. A lot overexposed
3. The flash is further away than in the first one, that's brought the exposure down (inverse square law) but also made the light relatively smaller, therefore making the shadows harder.

Edit to add
You need to lift your light higher, and obviously you wouldn't put a subject that close to a background unless you were aiming to 'use' the shadow for artistic effect.
Click to expand...

yes it was on the lowest and ut my aperture to f8 but yes could have lifted it higher. I did correct that when I used my mum.

I'mgoing to try again now with the doll
 
IMG_6707.JPG IMG_6707.JPG IMG_6709.JPG IMG_6710.JPG IMG_6712.JPG

are these any better? I made my f number a little higher F7 and used the light higher and further away
 

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Tell me what you think?

Which has correct exposure?

Which has the most pleasing (to you) light?

What do you like about it?


(The good news is the questions mean you're heading in the right direction)
 
I think that the second one is quite over exposed so not much a fan of that one first one looks ok but I love brighter photos so doesn't look as nice as the rest to me

I like the last two the most they are brighter and think they have more of an even lighting and not as much shadow, second to last one has a really bright spot though in comparison to the rest of the photo.

I'd probably pick the last image for the favourite of the lighting

woohooo! lol
 
Now you've learned that you can learn from your own results.

The differences from subtle movements and changes are quite big in the camera, once you have learned your starting point though, the world is your oyster.

Pretty soon you'll be able to predict where you want your light to be.


Great days work though. (y)
 
Thankyou
Doing that has helped me understand it alot more and it helped to do it with my mum too, she wont let me post them though lol!!
I'm glad I managed to figure out what was what now I just need to keep going with the practising!:)
 
Will this help me a achieve a whiter background too? When I use my softboxes it comes out quite grey and from the method I posted previously each image takes me about 45 minutes to edit lol below shows before editingand then after editing, I've already had opinions on these and I know they also weren't great but just an example for the backgrounds

IMG_4939 (2).jpg IMG_4939.jpg
 
caitlinjade95 said:
Will this help me a achieve a whiter background too? When I use my softboxes it comes out quite grey and from the method I posted previously each image takes me about 45 minutes to edit lol below shows before editingand then after editing, I've already had opinions on these and I know they also weren't great but just an example for the backgrounds

View attachment 49101 View attachment 49102
Click to expand...
The background needs to be lit seperately, that's going to give you some more balls to keep in the air. Lighting it evenly and bright enough without it intruding onto your subject, means creating distance between subject and background.

That's why we always advise newbies against white backgrounds.
 
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