A Selling Scenario

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Jon
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Suppose you put your camera up for sale, on the classifieds on this forum or another place. You checked your camera over and it was in full working order. You the sold it, and you packaged it up carefully, with plenty of shock absorbing material, to limit impact damage. The camera got to it's new owner, who bought it off you. The new owner then messaged you saying it is not working, and they want their money back.

Would you give a refund and receive your camera back, that was no longer working? I have often wondered, what happens in a situation like this. :thinking:
 
IMO awkward from two perspectives.

Did the recipient receive it in damaged packaging.....if so, pictures to prove it. As such, on the surmise you sent it "insured", you could claim for loss/repairs?

The trustworthiness of the recipient...... i.e. possible they dropped it whilst using it for the first time?

PS maybe pilot error and it does actually work?
 
A photo of a calendar clock taken with the camera would prove that it was working at that moment in time but after that, anything could be done by any party to the item either wrapped or "naked". Similarly, a photo of the item against the same calendar clock would prove its condition.
 
I was more thinking of an untrustworthy buyer, who no longer wanted the item, and simply damaged it to get a refund.
I have not sold anything on the net for many years, last time I got conned. Buyer claimed item was faulty and returned item, and got a refund. He actually removed some bits, before returning item. That episode put me off selling.

Just that I was thinking of selling a few items, and don't want to get conned again, by buyer claiming item not working.

Plus, how about if buyer did damage item to claim a refund?
 
Ultimately if its the same camera I imagine the answer is get the camera back and then refund
 
A photo of a calendar clock taken with the camera would prove that it was working at that moment in time but after that, anything could be done by any party to the item either wrapped or "naked". Similarly, a photo of the item against the same calendar clock would prove its condition.

So, taking such a photo, would be enough to negate a claim for a refund. I know most buyers on forums are honest, but I always seem to find the deceitful buyer.
This has happened to me a few times, I did refund the monies but after getting my stuff back, items where missing.
 
Unfortunately, it is a risk. However, I think that risk is reduced greatly on here compared with anywhere else. I for one would certainly not sell on the Evil Bay - I know of too many people who have been ripped off and PayPal are (IMO) useless as they always side with the buyer.

I've bought and sold quite a lot on here and that includes some expensive lenses and cameras and every item, seller and buyer has been very good. You can take a look through my feedback to see if you feel like it.

If I'm buying, I'll only buy from someone that has a good feedback score or has been a member for a number of years with a high post count. If I'm selling, I video everything to demonstrate it fully working, photograph its condition and make sure the money has cleared before posting. I also fully insure the item for damage in transit.
 
With private transactions there inevitably needs the be mutual trust.

Though my low level OCD would mean that should I ever sell anything privately I would record all serial numbers and advise the buyer of all the items in the sale & parcel. Then if as in your situation I might be inclined towards advising them that all returned items will be confirmed as originally sent by the invisible identifiers on the items. Any missing or replaced items will result in a small claims action!
 
So, taking such a photo, would be enough to negate a claim for a refund. I know most buyers on forums are honest, but I always seem to find the deceitful buyer.
This has happened to me a few times, I did refund the monies but after getting my stuff back, items where missing.

By the way, I was not referring to TP as being conned via, it was someplace else.
 
Just that I want to sell loads of stuff off, but I can't be doing with silly things, such as being conned and taken for a fool.
 
As the situation returns to normal, be patient (if you can!) and deal face to face with shops or private buyers. If private buyers, meet in a public place, ideally with a friend and do cash deals. The buyer gets to see that the item is in whatever condition it's in and you get the cash.
 
As the situation returns to normal, be patient (if you can!) and deal face to face with shops or private buyers. If private buyers, meet in a public place, ideally with a friend and do cash deals. The buyer gets to see that the item is in whatever condition it's in and you get the cash.
I prefer face to face, but with further distances this option is not always possible.

Might have another try at selling my stuff, and hope I don't get stuffed. :)
 
Selling on here is lower risk for sure. But just as you should "buy the seller" you can also "buy the buyer", so to speak. If someone has no feedback then avoid. I've not had any problems on here but if there's a buyer that never gets back to you to thank you for the item and let you know its ok, it's always buyers that don't post anywhere else on the forum. Whenever selling to well known members the transaction will usually go as smooth as can be. I also like to talk to people I'm buying from, especially if it's a high ticket item. I recently bought a Z6 on here from a member who posts fairly regularly but not before I'd spoken to him on the phone for nigh on an hour in total and I had a good idea he was fine to deal with. eBay is different but even then I'll chat to sellers before purchasing more expensive items. Selling on there has been fairly smooth but I photograph items properly and also record the packaging and sending off of items and message the photos to the buyers, just as I do on here. It builds a mutual trust and ensures that no-one who buys from me is left wondering when they'll get their stuff. In fact, I'll guaruntee I ship quicker than Amazom Prime and provide better tracking info. Go the extra mile when selling and do the same when buying and most of the time you'll be fine. You'll always encounter the odd idiot but maybe you've already met yours for a while.
 
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Just that I want to sell loads of stuff off, but I can't be doing with silly things, such as being conned and taken for a fool.

John, whilst you wouldn't get anything like the true value you could just take/send the stuff to an auction house and have them deal with it. I'm in the North West too and deal with Ashley Waller and Warrington salerooms. Really nice stuff can go to Flints.

My experience as a seller over the past few months on eBay has been positive but in the past I have had issues that were not of my making.

I think Dunc nails it, this forum may be your best bet to try to ensure as little grief as possible and you'll likely get a fair price too.

Good luck.
 
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I think Dunc nails it, this forum may be your best bet to try to ensure as little grief as possible and you'll likely get a fair price too.

Good luck.

Definitely less stress than eBay but you do need a bit of patience on here as it takes a while for folks to log on and check out the Classifieds. Expect to wait a couple of weeks or so before selling on here. eBay is a wider audience and much quicker but you need your wits about you and a double layer of skin. I tend to list here first to give members here first dibs and then list at eBay if the response is too slow here or if I'm in a hurry.
 
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So, taking such a photo, would be enough to negate a claim for a refund. I know most buyers on forums are honest, but I always seem to find the deceitful buyer.
This has happened to me a few times, I did refund the monies but after getting my stuff back, items where missing.

No, it's not conclusive. As Nod pointed out, it shows the camera's condition and that it was working when the photograph was taken, but that's it. The buyer can argue that you must have damaged it after taking the photograph, or that damage occurred in transit.

There's always going to be some risk selling online but Talk Photography should be one of the safer options. You can assess the buyer up to a point (how long has he/she been a member, number and quality of posts etc) and the mods will try to resolve any problems for you. Obviously they can't offer guarantees but I'd prefer to have them batting for me than arguing with a complete stranger by phone/mail ...
 
When I sell high value things. I film my self demonstrating the device, packaging it and sealing the box, all one take. I also try and take a pictire in the post office of the box being sent.
Whilst it’s not infallible, it certainly stops the chancers in their tracks. I’ve had numerous time on eBay of someone complaining something doesn’t work or is damaged. As soon as I mention the video, they mysteriously vanish or fix the problem.
 
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Selling on here is lower risk for sure. But just as you should "buy the seller" you can also "buy the buyer", so to speak. If someone has no feedback then avoid. I've not had any problems on here but if there's a buyer that never gets back to you to thank you for the item and let you know its ok, it's always buyers that don't post anywhere else on the forum. Whenever selling to well known members the transaction will usually go as smooth as can be. I also like to talk to people I'm buying from, especially if it's a high ticket item. I recently bought a Z6 on here from a member who posts fairly regularly but not before I'd spoken to him on the phone for nigh on an hour in total and I had a good idea he was fine to deal with. eBay is different but even then I'll chat to sellers before purchasing more expensive items. Selling on there has been fairly smooth but I photograph items properly and also record the packaging and sending off of items and message the photos to the buyers, just as I do on here. It builds a mutual trust and ensures that no-one who buys from me is left wondering when they'll get their stuff. In fact, I'll guaruntee I ship quicker than Amazom Prime and provide better tracking info. Go the extra mile when selling and do the same when buying and most of the time you'll be fine. You'll always encounter the odd idiot but maybe you've already met yours for a while.

Thanks for the lengthy informative post. I have noticed things tend to move slowly on here, if not at all.
I know things will sell on here, if it a sought after product at a reasonable price.

My stuff is lower end stuff that will probably not sell on here, that would probably do better on local groups.
 
John, whilst you wouldn't get anything like the true value you could just take/send the stuff to an auction house and have them deal with it. I'm in the North West too and deal with Ashley Waller and Warrington salerooms. Really nice stuff can go to Flints.

My experience as a seller over the past few months on eBay has been positive but in the past I have had issues that were not of my making.

I think Dunc nails it, this forum may be your best bet to try to ensure as little grief as possible and you'll likely get a fair price too.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply..

Not sure it's really worth sending to an auction house, as it is only lower end items. So not a great deal of value, but just amassed a good few cameras and other bits and bobs over the years.
 
So I was on the other end of this a few months ago....

I bought a watch for my wife on eBay. She wanted a mechanical watch but nothing fancy so I found a perfect "vintage" Tissot from the year she was born on eBay. It arrived packed in tissue paper but sadly didn't work. It just wouldn't tick - the most likely explanation was that it had been shaken hard in the post and old watches don't like that. I contacted the seller and at first he was helpful (after all, not everybody knows how to wind a watch) but then started demanding I take it to a jewellers to prove it didn't work.

I calmed him down and we agreed that I would send it back (I paid the postage since it was only a couple of pounds) and he could examine it as much as he liked but (1) I wasn't paying for an expert inspection and (2) no matter what I wanted a refund.

When it arrived back with him, the crazy started.....I got a series of phone calls in short succession (apparently he can get my number from PayPal - I had no idea). He started off angry and quickly accelerated to shouting abuse at me. It wasn't really clear what he was saying but he was heart attack sort of angry. I of course hung up.

I then got a series of messages via eBay basically alleging that I had opened the watch (!), possibly removed parts or possibly just couldn't reassemble it and that I was a scammer and a crook who could expect a visit from the police very soon. He actually told me that he had spent some time at the police station already. A bit later (presumably when the police said they weren't going to do anything) he started making threats about "knowing where I live" and to "expect a visit".

I didn't take them entirely seriously because (1) according to his profile he is a pensioner (2) he lives > 300 miles away (3) at the time I was living on a gated estate with adequate security with neighbours who may or may not have been extremely charming criminals which meant they had some *serious* cameras that covered >£100K of cars on their drive and coincidentally the approach to my property (4) in my spare time I teach martial arts.

Anyway, I forwarded the threats to eBay, told them the item was broken, got my money back and bought a rather lovely Seiko instead.

BTW, the Tissot was £30. There are lots of people out there who take things way too seriously.
 
So I was on the other end of this a few months ago....

I bought a watch for my wife on eBay. She wanted a mechanical watch but nothing fancy so I found a perfect "vintage" Tissot from the year she was born on eBay. It arrived packed in tissue paper but sadly didn't work. It just wouldn't tick - the most likely explanation was that it had been shaken hard in the post and old watches don't like that. I contacted the seller and at first he was helpful (after all, not everybody knows how to wind a watch) but then started demanding I take it to a jewellers to prove it didn't work.

I calmed him down and we agreed that I would send it back (I paid the postage since it was only a couple of pounds) and he could examine it as much as he liked but (1) I wasn't paying for an expert inspection and (2) no matter what I wanted a refund.

When it arrived back with him, the crazy started.....I got a series of phone calls in short succession (apparently he can get my number from PayPal - I had no idea). He started off angry and quickly accelerated to shouting abuse at me. It wasn't really clear what he was saying but he was heart attack sort of angry. I of course hung up.

I then got a series of messages via eBay basically alleging that I had opened the watch (!), possibly removed parts or possibly just couldn't reassemble it and that I was a scammer and a crook who could expect a visit from the police very soon. He actually told me that he had spent some time at the police station already. A bit later (presumably when the police said they weren't going to do anything) he started making threats about "knowing where I live" and to "expect a visit".

I didn't take them entirely seriously because (1) according to his profile he is a pensioner (2) he lives > 300 miles away (3) at the time I was living on a gated estate with adequate security with neighbours who may or may not have been extremely charming criminals which meant they had some *serious* cameras that covered >£100K of cars on their drive and coincidentally the approach to my property (4) in my spare time I teach martial arts.

Anyway, I forwarded the threats to eBay, told them the item was broken, got my money back and bought a rather lovely Seiko instead.

BTW, the Tissot was £30. There are lots of people out there who take things way too seriously.

That'll teach you for buying your poor wife a cheap old watch! :D:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
I must be very unlucky with regard to TP then, as I have sold hundreds of things over the years, mainly on Gumtree and the only ONE time I've been conned was on here.

Really, I thought everyone was pretty good on here. :thinking:
 
So I was on the other end of this a few months ago....

I bought a watch for my wife on eBay. She wanted a mechanical watch but nothing fancy so I found a perfect "vintage" Tissot from the year she was born on eBay. It arrived packed in tissue paper but sadly didn't work. It just wouldn't tick - the most likely explanation was that it had been shaken hard in the post and old watches don't like that. I contacted the seller and at first he was helpful (after all, not everybody knows how to wind a watch) but then started demanding I take it to a jewellers to prove it didn't work.

I calmed him down and we agreed that I would send it back (I paid the postage since it was only a couple of pounds) and he could examine it as much as he liked but (1) I wasn't paying for an expert inspection and (2) no matter what I wanted a refund.

When it arrived back with him, the crazy started.....I got a series of phone calls in short succession (apparently he can get my number from PayPal - I had no idea). He started off angry and quickly accelerated to shouting abuse at me. It wasn't really clear what he was saying but he was heart attack sort of angry. I of course hung up.

I then got a series of messages via eBay basically alleging that I had opened the watch (!), possibly removed parts or possibly just couldn't reassemble it and that I was a scammer and a crook who could expect a visit from the police very soon. He actually told me that he had spent some time at the police station already. A bit later (presumably when the police said they weren't going to do anything) he started making threats about "knowing where I live" and to "expect a visit".

I didn't take them entirely seriously because (1) according to his profile he is a pensioner (2) he lives > 300 miles away (3) at the time I was living on a gated estate with adequate security with neighbours who may or may not have been extremely charming criminals which meant they had some *serious* cameras that covered >£100K of cars on their drive and coincidentally the approach to my property (4) in my spare time I teach martial arts.

Anyway, I forwarded the threats to eBay, told them the item was broken, got my money back and bought a rather lovely Seiko instead.

BTW, the Tissot was £30. There are lots of people out there who take things way too seriously.

That is the sort of thing that puts me off selling, sometime it is just not worth the hassle, for the measly few quid items sometimes go for.
 
There will always be situations that arise even if you do everything right Jon.

If you want to PM a list of what you have for sale I would be happy to give you some idea what it might fetch at auction (based on my experience) or on eBay. It might help you decide if the potential income is worth the possible grief of selling on eBay or a forum. If you already have an idea of value then I guess this is a decision for you to think about.

I listed a lens earlier today which in my experience is a lovely performer and a whole chunk of glass (a Vivitar 28-200 with a 72mm filter thread) and it will probably sell for about £10 to £15 which I think is a terrible reflection of the value in that lens. Yet, I can get £20 for a metal lens cap! BONKERS!
 
There will always be situations that arise even if you do everything right Jon.

If you want to PM a list of what you have for sale I would be happy to give you some idea what it might fetch at auction (based on my experience) or on eBay. It might help you decide if the potential income is worth the possible grief of selling on eBay or a forum. If you already have an idea of value then I guess this is a decision for you to think about.

I listed a lens earlier today which in my experience is a lovely performer and a whole chunk of glass (a Vivitar 28-200 with a 72mm filter thread) and it will probably sell for about £10 to £15 which I think is a terrible reflection of the value in that lens. Yet, I can get £20 for a metal lens cap! BONKERS!

Only bog standard Compact cameras, probably worth about £40 or £50 got a few collected over the years. I know they will not sell on here.
 
I had a GF who made a nice living online, building selling sites, running them for a while to show they were profitable and then selling them on and she also ran her own selling site. She told me many stories of the strokes people used to pull including buying an item, claiming it didn't work and returning an item with a different serial number. Some items that were returned weren't even the same thing.

A family member currently sells on line and is making good money. One fairly common ploy seems to be to claim that the items haven't been delivered but these go away when the reply is "I have a photo of the item being delivered to your door."

I suppose the message is that sellers have to assume that a percentage of buyers are liars who'll try just about anything on. It's a shame that there isn't some sort of sanction for what must be criminal activity of some description but I suppose the police have other things to do and even if they didn't it would I suppose be very difficult to get a conviction. There will also be innocent mistakes and innocent incompetence.
 
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I had a GF who made a nice living online, building selling sites, running them for a while to show they were profitable and then selling them on and she also ran her own selling site. She told me many stories of the strokes people used to pull including buying an item, claiming it didn't work and returning an item with a different serial number. Some items that were returned weren't even the same thing.

A family member currently sells on line and is making good money. One fairly common ploy seems to be to claim that the items haven't been delivered but these go away when the reply is "I have a photo of the item being delivered to your door."

I suppose the message is that sellers have to assume that a percentage of buyers are liars who'll try just about anything on. It's a shame that there isn't some sort of sanction for what must be criminal activity of some description but I suppose the police have other things to do and even if they didn't it would I suppose be very difficult to get a conviction. There will also be innocent mistakes and innocent incompetence.

Yep. Unfortunately, there's a whole cross-section of society that has been brought up to believe it's perfectly fine to simply get away with whatever you can get away with. "Lies" are no longer "lies", they're a "ways to a means". Say whatever you have to, do whatever you need to, as long as you get what you want and with the least amount of effort.
 
I had a GF who made a nice living online, building selling sites, running them for a while to show they were profitable and then selling them on and she also ran her own selling site. She told me many stories of the strokes people used to pull including buying an item, claiming it didn't work and returning an item with a different serial number. Some items that were returned weren't even the same thing.

A family member currently sells on line and is making good money. One fairly common ploy seems to be to claim that the items haven't been delivered but these go away when the reply is "I have a photo of the item being delivered to your door."

I suppose the message is that sellers have to assume that a percentage of buyers are liars who'll try just about anything on. It's a shame that there isn't some sort of sanction for what must be criminal activity of some description but I suppose the police have other things to do and even if they didn't it would I suppose be very difficult to get a conviction. There will also be innocent mistakes and innocent incompetence.

If I was selling my items as a business, I suppose I would have to add a percentage to the cost, to cover the losses some buyers would cause.
I am only selling my stuff, as I want a clear out. It is just that I can't be doing with buyers, looking to cheat the seller.
 
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