A2+ printers for things like panos

James Blonde

James Blonde

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Moving on from my Canon IPF8100 worth £350 post (answer - probably not, especially if it's actually an IPF8000) my question now is, what printers would you suggest for someone who wants to print A2 and above in a panoramic format and sell? Just to add to this, I also shoot infrared and generally convert to black & white, so I'm not just looking at excellent colour performance, but also B&W. I'd like it to take cut sheets as well as roll if possible. This would be my first grown up printer, and I understand I'll need to learn a fair amount to get the best out of it, but print labs just aren't an option any more.

I like the idea of larger format printers, mostly because it doesn't size restrict me, but I'm aware of the potential expense after looking into the IPF8100, and the need to use it regularly. Equally I don't want to be forking out for ink after 20 prints, as seems to be the case with the desktop printers I've used (and then not used cos they're just expensive to run) in the past, so larger ink capacity options is a bonus.

I don't have a limitless budget, I think I'd realised I could be spending in the couple of grand price range, with a possible need for more for consumables, but would happily pay less, and possibly a bit more if it's genuinely worth it. I need to be conscious about space (the IPF8100 just planted the seed of in idea - I hadn't actually figured out where to put it yet!) so something more compact would obviously be a bonus. I'm also aware that some printers need cartridge changes for different papers / print types which wastes ink. I'd like to avoid that, but it's possibly not a showstopper - as long as I know.

Used is an option, so could be interested in vague ideas on used prices, but I don't want used to mean "this is on its last legs, the wheels are falling off, the head(s) are dead and the main board is likely to fry"

I have a "great idea" of offering my print services locally to help subsidise this. This is of course silly, and it'll never happen, but if any of your suggested printers would allow for this, do please let me know!

Ta for any advice! :D
 
Epson SC-P800 was one on the list, and probably the "sensible" option so arguably at the top. However did I see somewhere that you needed to swap out black inks on that depending on paper type?

The Canon Pro 1000 might still be on the shortlist, despite it being A2 only, but that was probably because I'd hard about having to swap Epson inks out. Canon Pro 2000 is definitely on the table as an option. IPF8400 has been mentioned as a used option.

How sensible I want to be is open to question, but I'll probably settle down to more sensible levels when it comes to actually deciding and buying the thing! :D

One thing I was going to ask was, do 3rd party inks have the same print quality, durability and longevity as OEM, or cause issues for the printer? I have to guess OEM do something different to justify the cost, but then is it just PR to keep you hooked?
 
James Blonde said:
Moving on from my Canon IPF8100 worth £350 post (answer - probably not, especially if it's actually an IPF8000) my question now is, what printers would you suggest for someone who wants to print A2 and above in a panoramic format and sell? Just to add to this, I also shoot infrared and generally convert to black & white, so I'm not just looking at excellent colour performance, but also B&W. I'd like it to take cut sheets as well as roll if possible. This would be my first grown up printer, and I understand I'll need to learn a fair amount to get the best out of it, but print labs just aren't an option any more.

I like the idea of larger format printers, mostly because it doesn't size restrict me, but I'm aware of the potential expense after looking into the IPF8100, and the need to use it regularly. Equally I don't want to be forking out for ink after 20 prints, as seems to be the case with the desktop printers I've used (and then not used cos they're just expensive to run) in the past, so larger ink capacity options is a bonus.

I don't have a limitless budget, I think I'd realised I could be spending in the couple of grand price range, with a possible need for more for consumables, but would happily pay less, and possibly a bit more if it's genuinely worth it. I need to be conscious about space (the IPF8100 just planted the seed of in idea - I hadn't actually figured out where to put it yet!) so something more compact would obviously be a bonus. I'm also aware that some printers need cartridge changes for different papers / print types which wastes ink. I'd like to avoid that, but it's possibly not a showstopper - as long as I know.

Used is an option, so could be interested in vague ideas on used prices, but I don't want used to mean "this is on its last legs, the wheels are falling off, the head(s) are dead and the main board is likely to fry"

I have a "great idea" of offering my print services locally to help subsidise this. This is of course silly, and it'll never happen, but if any of your suggested printers would allow for this, do please let me know!

Ta for any advice! :D
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I have the SC-P800 and have printed several large pano's among other things. It's an excellent printer but you do have to switch black inks if you are printing on matt or glossy paper so generally I batch print either glossy or matt to minimise the amount of switching and wasted ink.
Fotospeed sell after market ink kits which I use and m happy with the results and also provide a free profiling service for papers bought from them.
https://www.fotospeed.com/Fotospeed-Ultra-4k-Pigment-ink-125ml/products/1269/
 
ecoleman said:
Epson SC-P800. A2, cutsheet and roll. Cancer Marrutt CIS or refillable cartridges to keep ink costs way down.
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Absolutely. I agonised for ages over the SC-P600 or 800 - I just couldn't afford the extra in cost. However, now I'm wishing I did go down the 800 route.
Nothing wrong with Marrutt inks :)

James Blonde said:
However did I see somewhere that you needed to swap out black inks on that depending on paper type?
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All the cartridges are located on the Printer - you don't have to physically change them - the software detects your paper type and makes the change. I assume the SC-P800 is the same
 
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chuckles said:
Absolutely. I agonised for ages over the SC-P600 or 800 - I just couldn't afford the extra in cost. However, now I'm wishing I did go down the 800 route.
Nothing wrong with Marrutt inks :)



All the cartridges are located on the Printer - you don't have to physically change them - the software detects your paper type and makes the change. I assume the SC-P800 is the same
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Me too. I have the P600 (also due to cost) and often wish I'd stumped up the extra for the larger format.
 
When mine dies it'll be a toss up between the P-5000 & P-800. I think the quality at this price point is exceptional - for both B&W and colour. Without going floor standing, these are really your only choices unless Canon decide to remove their silly paper size restriction on their Pro series.
 
Kiwi Paul said:
I have the SC-P800 and have printed several large pano's among other things. It's an excellent printer but you do have to switch black inks if you are printing on matt or glossy paper so generally I batch print either glossy or matt to minimise the amount of switching and wasted ink.
Fotospeed sell after market ink kits which I use and m happy with the results and also provide a free profiling service for papers bought from them.
https://www.fotospeed.com/Fotospeed-Ultra-4k-Pigment-ink-125ml/products/1269/
Click to expand...

Is there any way to batch it so you don't lose ink in the changeover - so so I guess using or minimising what's in the lines? Or is it just not worth getting het up about?


Looking back, the largest prints I've had done are 18" wide, but there's only a couple of those - the majority are A2, 16", or less, wide (length is the variable). I don't want to say at this point that maybe I'm over-speccing with the Pro-2000 or IPF8400 (or other floor standing printers) as I still have pie in the sky ideas above my station, but....
 
James Blonde said:
Is there any way to batch it so you don't lose ink in the changeover - so so I guess using or minimising what's in the lines? Or is it just not worth getting het up about?


Looking back, the largest prints I've had done are 18" wide, but there's only a couple of those - the majority are A2, 16", or less, wide (length is the variable). I don't want to say at this point that maybe I'm over-speccing with the Pro-2000 or IPF8400 (or other floor standing printers) as I still have pie in the sky ideas above my station, but....
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No, when changing paper either the printer automatically changes inks once you tell it the paper you are using or you can manually select it, I use manual selection to prevent accidental switches.
It's not that bigger deal, you do lose a bit of ink but it's not worth worry about unless you are constantly changing between matt and gloss paper.
The Fotospeed ink is cheap enough anyway.
Clogging isn't too bad either, sometimes its weeks between prints and it does usually do a bit of nozzle clearing, but when used fairly often it doesn't seem to need to.
 
We run an iPF6450 (24" roll - 12 colours) and the main reason for this was that for A3 and above on fine art papers, it's cheaper than a lab and of course, you have full control. As I also run a small framers it's also a service we provide to our customers too.

A few points in no particular order that might help:

This model has 2 greys and 2 blacks, so no cartridge swapping. The ICC profile for each paper picks the right ones.

Heads are removable and user replaceable.

If you are selling prints then I would advise only ever using genuine ink, especially if you are doing Limited Editions, they are a lot more colour accurate and repeatably so.

Pigment ink cartridges only have a date on to comply with EU laws, so can be ignored (info direct from a Canon rep off the record), which means bargains are available. Just bought a genuine 330ml Blue cartridge for £40 as an example.

Print from 16 bit TIFFs using the Photoshop plugin. This only applies if you shoot RAW, you get better tonal gradations and no banding which you sometimes get from JPEGs

Rolls of fine art papers are no cheaper than buying sheets, but far more flexible, especially if you can keep your panoramas within 24" wide as you might only be using 8-10" of paper. You can also ignore A sized papers, normal sizes I now use are 12x9", 16x12", 24x18", 36"x24". Everything print revolves around 24" it is either 24" long, 24" wide or half that with 2 prints done at once. If you do your own mounts, they work out well for good yields from mountboard too!

Use them regularly (at least once a week!).

If you're thinking of canvases as well, go as wide as you can as you will lose about 1.5" per side when stretching around stretcher bars.

IMG_0438.jpgIMG_0439.jpg

If you have any more questions, I'll do my best to help!
 
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Thanks Unlocker - that's really useful. You've made some good points about paper sizes particularly - flexibility has got to be a positive, and why I was looking at printers beyond my obvious / immediate needs. I haven't tended to crop to standard sizes, just to be awkward / daft, so again, this flexibility helps with that.

I'd been swaying back towards A2+ - which basically meant Epson P800, but having had a chat with one of the printer suppliers, he's thrown the Epson P5000, P6000 and P7000 in as options, and that they're on offer at the moment. You may have swayed me back towards bigger... I now need to look at the practicalities of finding somewhere for something of these sizes to live (and be easily usable) - and that might mean having to be wireless becomes a factor, which the bigger Epsons aint.... though I might have a spare powerline adapter, which probably gets round that.
 
Yeh, I think I'd now discounted 44" - I honestly can't see myself printing anything that would require one, unless I was printing 2 or 3 wide, meaning I'd be using it even less!
 
James Blonde said:
Yeh, I think I'd now discounted 44" - I honestly can't see myself printing anything that would require one, unless I was printing 2 or 3 wide, meaning I'd be using it even less!
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It depends. My stuff looks the better the bigger. I've done a few 24"36" canvas (actually 22"x34" after stretching) and they look really nice and I would expect that to be generally the largest size you sell to most customers, but I would very happily have that bigger version on the wall. Just in case you have access to customers who can afford dropping £500-600 for such a canvas (top quality paper, probably signed with worthless certificate, varnish) then you probably need one. You probably won't find many (any?) places that offer 44" short side prints. I'd personally buy one as printer no2 if the business picks up to that level.
 
I’ve had the scp800 for a couple of years and really pleased with the results, I have occasionally gone a week or two without printing and never a problem. The B&W on this is brilliant using the abw and you get the really dark blacks especially on matte. I have always used epson inks because when your printing on a regular basis and not wasting papers I haven’t found it that expensive. Even swapping it only purges the black now and takes about a minute. Obviously the larger the ink cart the cheaper. Also the footprint on this is really quite small for an A2 printer 27”x15”x10”. If your aiming to sell some serious prints I would always use the epson inks.
Luminous landscape is great value at £1 a month and there are some great video tutorials on printing as well.
 
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James Blonde said:
Thanks Unlocker - that's really useful. You've made some good points about paper sizes particularly - flexibility has got to be a positive, and why I was looking at printers beyond my obvious / immediate needs. I haven't tended to crop to standard sizes, just to be awkward / daft, so again, this flexibility helps with that.

I'd been swaying back towards A2+ - which basically meant Epson P800, but having had a chat with one of the printer suppliers, he's thrown the Epson P5000, P6000 and P7000 in as options, and that they're on offer at the moment. You may have swayed me back towards bigger... I now need to look at the practicalities of finding somewhere for something of these sizes to live (and be easily usable) - and that might mean having to be wireless becomes a factor, which the bigger Epsons aint.... though I might have a spare powerline adapter, which probably gets round that.
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Printer doesn't need to be wireless, ours isn't but if it's connected to your wifi router via ethernet, then you can print wirelessly as long as you are within coverage area. We've just replaced our MacPro (ethernet) with a MacBook Pro and it works fine.

Don't forget, the bigger you go, the cheaper per ml the ink is, so it could pay for itself overtime depending on how much work you do. Just because it's 24" doesn't mean you can't put a 17" roll in if you can get a deal on paper etc. The bigger ones tend to come on their own stands so can be moved around the room if space is tight.

If it helps, my only regret is not having the space or budget at the time to go for the 44" one!
 
So an update... I'd been coming down heavily on the side on the Epson SC-P7000, due to price primarily (~£2000 incl VAT) - couldn't find the other options even coming close to that, or close enough to justify the price difference. Also like the idea of the flexibility a straight through print path offers. May not be something I use in the end, but it's flexible! I haven't pressed "buy" yet as one of the suppliers was going to do a test print on a Pro 2000 and a Z9 (they didn't have an Epson to test on - they seemed surprised I was asking..!). Not heard back from the supplier after sending the image off. Would have been an interesting comparison, but the fact it's all gone quiet kind of helps make the decision for me!

The HP Z9 had been suggested elsewhere, but there just doesn't seem to be much experience of it and no obvious comparisons. I think the price was higher than the other options too. For a first time printer, I came to the conclusion that I'd probably prefer to have as much online support / experience as possible! :D

In the mean time it seems that the 2 P7000 suppliers that had prices ~£2000ish are now offering a free 3 year warranty on it (and the discount I was told would run out at the end of January didn't, hmm....!
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)

I'm glad I held off!
 
If you can hold off a month or so, might be worth waiting for The Photography Show, all the printers should be there and there's normally an offer of one kind or another. Sometimes you can even get demo prints too, so take a USB stick with high res files on.
 
Yeh, when I sailed past the January "deadline" I did start thinking that maybe I should go to the Photography Show..... Bit of a trek, but might be worth it on many levels. But then I've had a few more orders come in - something has clearly changed over the last 2 months...!
 
and demo prints I got! Certainly from one of the suppliers! Pro-2000 test looked outstanding, though the same suppliers P7000 less so (But it wasn't a like for like comparison - they were clearly pushing the Canon and.... maybe set the P7000 up to fail?)

That was a mental day - I really should have taken more than a day for the show, but was definitely worth the effort and journey! i think it's left me more confused than certain though

I'd gone with my head set on the P7000, but the show deals on inks on the Canon has possibly changed the game. There wasn't a lot of love for the Epson out there though :/

Best deal I saw on the Epson was around £1700 incl VAT, with 3 year warranty
Best I saw on the Canon (seemed to be the show deal - everyone seemed to be offering it) was £2400 incl VAT with either an extra set of 160ml inks (on top of the starter set) OR a 3 year warranty. So that's, what, £600 worth of ink??
Only saw 1 HP Z9, which was £2700 - in hindsight I'm not sure if that was incl VAT or excl. Looked nice, looked sleek, still not seeing any comparison reviews though.

I'm thinking the Canon might be in the running again. I think those inks might have levelled the playing field a little. Need to pull the trigger tomorrow really though to get the show deals. Urgh
 
Yeh I saw that too, but was too tired for it to register and was trying to avoid getting distrac.... SQUIRREL!

Nah, need to focus on the goal - Pro-2000 or P7000 - and MAKE A SODDING DECISION BEFORE THE SHOW DISCOUNTS VANISH! :banghead:
 
Well that's it done - Epson P7000 ordered!

Canon nearly had me persuaded yesterday, but the reasons I was looking at the P7000 haven't gone away, and I think I can accept the downsides in exchange for the price and the warranty, which covers the head.

Stand by for the incoming stupid questions about how to set it up and use it next! :D and thanks so much for all of your advice to get me this far!
 
James Blonde said:
Well that's it done - Epson P7000 ordered!
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Congratulations!! Screenies when it arrives plz!

As an aside, Fotospeed were doing a buy-one-get-one-half-price on their stand at the show which would be great value for rolls. I nearly plumped for their canvas-on-a-roll but budget just wouldn't stretch.
 
Were they really?? Hmm.... paper is the next challenge, that's for sure! I just didn't have time to even look at paper yesterday. I have an idea that I want a smooth art silk type paper that one of the labs was doing, but beyond that, I have no idea, and the sample packs I have are apparently all ancient! I should have gone for more than 1 day....
 
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