About time too.

Dave70D said:
It has taken far too long for it to happen, must be horrible for the families and us who sadly saw it, but sending him to prison won`t do a thing at all.
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It won't. It was a terrible accident. The full facts will come out but it does appear he was doing the wrong thing in the wrong place and it went wrong. Whether it was just an honest mistake or pure negligence is probably quite hard to prove.
 
Dave70D said:
It has taken far too long for it to happen, must be horrible for the families and us who sadly saw it, but sending him to prison won`t do a thing at all.
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Dont jump to conclusions.
So far he's innocent (until proven guilty) and who knows what the sentence will be, there's no minimum unless it involves an hand gun.
 
Three times sanctioned previously for making the same risky manoeuvre in the same aircraft iirc.
 
viv1969 said:
Three times sanctioned previously for making the same risky manoeuvre in the same aircraft iirc.
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I wonder if they can bring that up in court? Isnt going to help his case or his sentence if found guilty.
 
cambsno said:
Whether it was just an honest mistake or pure negligence is probably quite hard to prove.
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I don't want to be argumentative, but.... Really? Surely, creating a situation where a mistake can kill somebody is virtually the definition of negligence.
 
yeah guilty as hell send him down for a long stretch.
 
I see the 'hang em and flog em' brigade have already decided upon his guilt but if the court finds him guilty as charged it might be appropriate to treat him in the same way that a car driver would be penalised for committing the same offence.
 
seems straight forward

causing death by dangerous flying?
 
Dave70D said:
They will have to prove it was dangerous flying, when we were there I said to the wife, he is low. He then started his loop and you could tell he was fighting the jet and imo saved more lives that were lost.
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Yeah I guess they will but looking at the catalogue of failures and his history I reckon he is responsible for the deaths.
I haven't seen any evidence the jet was faulty in its construction, all pilot error.
 
Mr Bump said:
Yeah I guess they will but looking at the catalogue of failures and his history I reckon he is responsible for the deaths.
I haven't seen any evidence the jet was faulty in its construction, all pilot error.
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I hope he does not go down for it, I remember when the radio lot interviewed me and all they wanted me to say was, Ban all airshows as they are dangerous and I said they are not.
 
Dave70D said:
I hope he does not go down for it, I remember when the radio lot interviewed me and all they wanted me to say was, Ban all airshows as they are dangerous and I said they are not.
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why do you hope he doesn't have to answer for all those deaths?

I don't have anything against airshows either but all those people are dead pretty much because of him whichever way you try and sell it.

dunno how else it looks.
 
Mr Bump said:
why do you hope he doesn't have to answer for all those deaths?

I don't have anything against airshows either but all those people are dead pretty much because of him whichever way you try and sell it.

dunno how else it looks.
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I did not say I don`t want him to answer for a mistake, yes he should be punished IF he is found guilty. His knowing he accidently killed 11 people will be hard enough for him to handle as it will be on his mind forever. If he gets guilty, then fine him and probation plus never fly again.
 
Dave70D said:
I did not say I don`t want him to answer for a mistake, yes he should be punished IF he is found guilty. His knowing he accidently killed 11 people will be hard enough for him to handle as it will be on his mind forever. If he gets guilty, then fine him and probation plus never fly again.
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but that's the same as saying someone kills 11 people at a bus stop going to fast and loses control gets probabtion and a driving ban?
 
Dave70D said:
You should never have an airshow so close to a road in the first place, sadly a lot of folk made a mistake that day, not just him.
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So how do you propose that people travel to said airshows?

Duxford is right next to the M11 - Better not mention places like Heathrow, Stansted etc... I mean, what happens if a 747 has difficulties 30 secs after take off, straight into houses and busy high streets!!
 
cambsno said:
So how do you propose that people travel to said airshows?

Duxford is right next to the M11 - Better not mention places like Heathrow, Stansted etc... I mean, what happens if a 747 has difficulties 30 secs after take off, straight into houses and busy high streets!!
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Red Arrows will not do Shoreham because as they say, there is no fall out place. Heathrow and Stansted don`t do airshows, but if a 747 crashed then they would have to have a re think.
 
Dave70D said:
He did not know enough about the jet as he usually flies a smaller and faster jet, yes had had been told to not fly low again but I don`t think he thought, Right I will fly in at 100ft try a loop and fight not to crash in the middle of the road, save some folk but kill 11.
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A super trained pilot like him should have looked at all the risks including the landscape around and his flight plan.
He was being a show off just like some kid going to fast up old bank road and comes off and kills a kid.
everything that happened that day was his to control and he just didn't keep it in his pants.
 
Snip...

Dave70D said:
I don`t think he thought, Right I will fly in at 100ft try a loop
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So, if he didn't think it, who made the decision for him? And, as the pilot, didn't he make the final decision?
 
Mr Bump said:
A super trained pilot like him should have looked at all the risks including the landscape around and his flight plan.
He was being a show off just like some kid going to fast up old bank road and comes off and kills a kid.
everything that happened that day was his to control and he just didn't keep it in his pants.
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Yes he showed off, but Shoreham SHOULD of known his flight path, as I said a lot of mistakes that day.
 
that airshow crash was just another wake up call to how much stupid stuff is still allowed because no one has looked at it in a long time.

It is one of those weird things regarding the whole risk assessment culture and health and safety.

If that had all been done properly on that day all those folk would probably been alive.
 
Nod said:
Snip...



So, if he didn't think it, who made the decision for him? And, as the pilot, didn't he make the final decision?
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How he was fighting that jet when he knew he was going to crash, saved many more. Yes he was silly to show off, he has to live with it forever as do those families who lost loved ones.
 
Dave70D said:
Yes he showed off, but Shoreham SHOULD of known his flight path, as I said a lot of mistakes that day.
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I agree they should have known his flight path but flying a vintage jet like the one he binned was a two way street.
He should have submitted his plans for inspection even if he was not asked to but he didn't he just TOP Gunned it on the day.
 
sorry @Dave70D but you are mumbling tosh, defending a guy for killing 11 people to not hurt his feelings?

he might as well have just pulled the trigger on them so incompetent were his actions.
 
Dave70D said:
Red Arrows will not do Shoreham because as they say, there is no fall out place. Heathrow and Stansted don`t do airshows, but if a 747 crashed then they would have to have a re think.
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Wouldn't it be better to think before the event. At some point a crash will happen at a commercial airport, it is unlikely and could be in 50 years time but could happen tomorrow!

If a plane suffers catastrophic breakup then it doesn't matter if there is a fallout place or not!
 
cambsno said:
Wouldn't it be better to think before the event. At some point a crash will happen at a commercial airport, it is unlikely and could be in 50 years time but could happen tomorrow!

If a plane suffers catastrophic breakup then it doesn't matter if there is a fallout place or not!
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Air France flight 4590...
 
Mr Bump said:
that airshow crash was just another wake up call to how much stupid stuff is still allowed because no one has looked at it in a long time.

It is one of those weird things regarding the whole risk assessment culture and health and safety.

If that had all been done properly on that day all those folk would probably been alive.
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Not really, aerobatics is dangerous. My dad was a pilot and knew of a number of pilots killed, all were doing aerobatic manoeuvres.

Yes he was at fault (based on what we have seen so far). He should not have been doing that where he did. However, he probably wont be the last to make a mistake, last time I looked I was human and make lots! When driving, I know I have gone to pull out and almost hit someone, either through not looking properly or mis-judging speeds/distances. Now if I was driving at 80 in a 40, while on the phone and hit people that's one thing, but doing 30 in a 30 and mis-judging something and hitting people is different.

I don't know the context of the crash - was he in a routine at the time? He may have come out of a manoeuvre a bit lower/faster/slower than he thought but you only have seconds to react.
 
Mr Bump said:
It is one of those weird things regarding the whole risk assessment culture and health and safety.

If that had all been done properly on that day all those folk would probably been alive.
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Would you care to expand on that?
 
Dave70D said:
How he was fighting that jet when he knew he was going to crash, saved many more. Yes he was silly to show off, he has to live with it forever as do those families who lost loved ones.
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His living with it doesn't even compare to the loss of the families of those he killed.
He didn't save any lives, he took 11, executing a dangerously low manoeuvre that he had previously done and been told not to do again.
 
viv1969 said:
His living with it doesn't even compare to the loss of the families of those he killed.
He didn't save any lives, he took 11, executing a dangerously low manoeuvre that he had previously done and been told not to do again.
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As you say, he killed 11, as I say he saved more as I was there and saw it.
 
Dave70D said:
As you say, he killed 11, as I say he saved more as I was there and saw it.
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Congratulations, but being there doesn't make you an expert.
 
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