Advice regarding coronavirus wage subsidy

Mr Bump said:
lots of positive info, my accountant sees now issues he thinks if the HMRC hold back on not paying PAYE claims for directors and PSCs then they will see a revolt.
I am confident I should get my 80% back :)
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Are you paid via PAYE ?if so there is no problem, your accountant or whoever is doing your payroll should be ensureing your wage slips show the 80% and anything else additional, if you are not PAYE then, revolt or not your not allowed to claim.
 
Brentor said:
That is the problem. The rules of the scheme are not clear particularly around the edges. Several directors are on a salary hence PAYE and also receive dividends which do not go through the PAYE system. Hopefully it will become clearer when HMRC issues more guidance.
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whats not clear, it is crystal clear, get paid via PAYE and claim back 80% if furloughed that is it simple.
 
The way I read it is that just because you are paye doesn't mean you are an employee, to be regarded as an employee you will need to prove you are and that may mean a written contract between your Ltd Co and you the employee.
I personally see this as a potential loop hole HMRC could use to refuse to pay the "employee". The link I posted above was through an accountancy firm and tbh I think they know more about this than any of us on here.
 
I understand that as well so basically its a f*** you to the employees that make your money as the employer is more important. Not you by the way my bosses. That's a despicable attitude. Why wouldn't they get it back? It is clear who qualify and doesn't. They simply don't give a s***.
Mr Bump said:
the problem with placing a person on furlough is the company still has to pay you while they wait for the HMRC to sort out the JRS portal which still isn't active and personally I don't expect it to be active until end April, given the speed of how they work I don't expect companies to receive any pennies until late May.

so basically they are not wanting to front your salary on the off chance they should get the money back, a fair few companies are behaving that way as they don't have faith in the HMRC coffing up, can you blame them?

personally I have large cash reserves in my ltd company so I can keep paying myself and hopefully the HMRC will pay me out my 80% but if they don't hey ho.
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Brentor said:
You may think so, but the rules for single director companies are not.
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They are, what’s not clear? It’s in the guidelines, if you are a single director, paid the rough PAYE then you can claim 80% of,your wages if you have furloughed yourself, it’s not rocket science.......
 
Studio488commercial said:
Are you paid via PAYE ?if so there is no problem, your accountant or whoever is doing your payroll should be ensureing your wage slips show the 80% and anything else additional, if you are not PAYE then, revolt or not your not allowed to claim.
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Yep PAYE all the way with rest going to pension.
 
MatBin said:
The way I read it is that just because you are paye doesn't mean you are an employee, to be regarded as an employee you will need to prove you are and that may mean a written contract between your Ltd Co and you the employee.
I personally see this as a potential loop hole HMRC could use to refuse to pay the "employee". The link I posted above was through an accountancy firm and tbh I think they know more about this than any of us on here.
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If you carry out services to the ltd company and indeed get paid for those services, especially through PAYE then LEGALLY you need a contract of employment, so why would you not have one ?
 
Mr Bump said:
Yep PAYE all the way with rest going to pension.
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Then you are fine, if you haven’t already, then document your furlough. With details of why, when and how, give a copy to your accountant, belt and braces. good luck with the pension bit. Ours fell of a cliff, i have a couple of months to move many many pounds notes into ours, but am very very reluctant, looking for other avenues at the min, worse case is we pay the tax, which is around 16 grand so not a great option.
 
Studio488commercial said:
If you carry out services to the ltd company and indeed get paid for those services, especially through PAYE then LEGALLY you need a contract of employment, so why would you not have one ?
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Without wishing to be right pia as a director receiving a salary and it being subject to paye you do not legally need an employment contract unless you take employment income, how that differs from director's income I do not know, apparently it's all part of employment law. However an individual could take an employer to court if no contract exists but a director and shareholder would not take their own company to court so single director/employee is seen as a different case.
 
Just to add from an chat with my accountant yesterday, where he said their info is that...

The Govt will add a portal for applications to its HMRC website, they are hoping to have this up & running by the end of April - this is for the employed 80%

The S/E 80% has no clearer timescale as yet, but they are still hoping to having it in place sometime before the end of June

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Just to add from an chat with my accountant yesterday, where he said their info is that...

The Govt will add a portal for applications to its HMRC website, they are hoping to have this up & running by the end of April - this is for the employed 80%

The S/E 80% has no clearer timescale as yet, but they are still hoping to having it in place sometime before the end of June

Dave
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^this, ours said the same, to add, they said we wouldn't expect any payments until mid to end May if we are lucky :|)
 
DG Phototraining said:
Yup - the plan must be to bankrupt everyone who is entitled to claim so they don't have to pay it

Dave
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Alternatively take a loan from a bank (Govt backed) and pay staff etc until payments come through then pay bank back. Isnt that something you would do in any downturn to save your business, except you'd have to back the loan up with the bank taking a charge on your assets/home, something the Govt have told banks in theses circumstances not to do?

Do businesses really not have a fund that allows them to continue trading for a few weeks if there's a sudden loss of income?
 
MatBin said:
Alternatively take a loan from a bank (Govt backed) and pay staff etc until payments come through then pay bank back. Isnt that something you would do in any downturn to save your business, except you'd have to back the loan up with the bank taking a charge on your assets/home, something the Govt have told banks in theses circumstances not to do?

Do businesses really not have a fund that allows them to continue trading for a few weeks if there's a sudden loss of income?
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The Govt backed loans are a minimum of £25K and you must have been refused commercial credit first. Which is more than most small businesses need or want.

On top of that, you have to have a business case for borrowing the money, and it's not allowed to be for paying wages.
 
MatBin said:
https://www.british-business-bank.c...us-business-interruption-loan-scheme-cbils-2/

Seems you can get less than £250,000

Didnt see anything regarding not allowed for paying wages, although I guess that is maybe implicit but it is for cash flow disruptiuon.
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Less than £250K, but none of the banks in the scheme will give you less than £25K.


And the reason paying wages can't be a reason for borrowing it, is that you have to have a business case for it that would be valid if it wasn't for the impact of COVID-19. If you click on to the SME page it states:

"The borrower must:
Have a borrowing proposal which the lender would consider viable, were it not for the current pandemic "

Most banks are being helpful though, a friends business was given a £10k low cost overdraft which would be much cheaper than a £25k loan and didn't have the same hoops to jump through.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Less than £250K, but none of the banks in the scheme will give you less than £25K.


And the reason paying wages can't be a reason for borrowing it, is that you have to have a business case for it that would be valid if it wasn't for the impact of COVID-19. If you click on to the SME page it states:

"The borrower must:
Have a borrowing proposal which the lender would consider viable, were it not for the current pandemic "

Most banks are being helpful though, a friends business was given a £10k low cost overdraft which would be much cheaper than a £25k loan and didn't have the same hoops to jump through.
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Sorry I read that as £25K on website, good job I'm not in charge of finances :)
Must admit I was looking at my pension fund(s) at the same time so a bit distracted.
Probably needs a lot of paperwork for the loan so the banks arent seeing it as a "profitable" thing to do on a small scale.
 
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One company I was talking to have been refused a government backed loan because they own their premises and should be able to secure a loan on the premises on a commercial basis. Their bank apparently have a backlog of commercial loan applications of several weeks....if they had rented the same premises they would likely have been eligible...
 
MatBin said:
Do businesses really not have a fund that allows them to continue trading for a few weeks if there's a sudden loss of income?
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In my experience no they don't, most I've worked with over the years run on an overdraft or started & expanded via loans

Especially as there's no usual contingency plan for the Govt closing the country!

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Especially as there's no usual contingency plan for the Govt closing the country!
Dave
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I was tempted to say "Bit short sighted" and add a smiley, probably best not to.
It is a terrible situation and I can only hope that banks behave well and keep businesses afloat (as in the example Andy mentioned above). After all if all these businesses collapse it wont be good for the banks when we come out of this either.
 
i'm just still waiting for the HMRC JRS Portal, but all signs are end of April best.
Weird thing I have had is agencies are calling me up offering me IT contract roles still in absurd locations.
when I tell them that I am self isolating for a few months they are like "so if we upped the rate then?"
 
MatBin said:
I was tempted to say "Bit short sighted" and add a smiley, probably best not to.
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Best not

There are VERY few businesses that start up without any form of loans/overdrafts as few people have the spare tens or hundreds of thousands of £s needed before starting a business, and when you've started IF you're making a profit no-one would ever consider the Govt killing their, indeed almost all, business. Just look at our airlines, businesses worth billions and yet crippled within a few weeks as cashflow dries up, so yes, keep such comments to yourself

Dave
 
Mr Bump said:
i'm just still waiting for the HMRC JRS Portal, but all signs are end of April best.
Weird thing I have had is agencies are calling me up offering me IT contract roles still in absurd locations.
when I tell them that I am self isolating for a few months they are like "so if we upped the rate then?"
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If you're claiming to be furloughed, you cannot do any work, not even planning for "after" (as a director) as far as I can tell from reading the bumf.
 
Nod said:
If you're claiming to be furloughed, you cannot do any work, not even planning for "after" (as a director) as far as I can tell from reading the bumf.
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I'm doing hack s*** at the moment. Barely getting up before midday if the govs2going to pay game on
 
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