Alex & Donna - Wedding

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So following on from this thread, here is my first wedding of 2016. I still haven;t got many bookings for either this year or next year but I have been having a bit of a re think of where I want to go with this. Let me know your thoughts on the processing as well as the photography of course as it's something I am not entirely sure about, especially when I look at the work of the many people I admire. I still struggle I think with things like the speeches and can't get as good angles as I see a lot of folk getting, the same with using a lot of negative space, great moments and compositions. :/

The blog post is HERE should you want to look at the full day. :)

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Thanks for looking. :)
 
I really like in just 4 images you have given and real nice insight of the day I really like B+W images of wedding days cant put my finger on why, good work Gaz
 
#1 is well caught, but a slightly lower viewpoint could easily have lost you that very intrusive coathanger and maybe also the clutter coming out of Mum's (?) head. (If it's any consolation, it took me maybe 200 weddings to get to the point where I could usually avoid exactly this sort of problem with prep shots.)

#2 is also well caught, although I'm not convinced by the framing. Incidentally, IMO both these first two would have considerably more impact if they'd been shot from a little closer with a shorter focal length.

#3 is nice enough, but for me the composition suffers from their eyes being near as dammit on the centreline. I reckon they needed to be maybe 2/3 of the way up.

#4 is really nice (and well done for getting both the rings in without it looking too contrived), but again the framing's out for me. The joint in the boards is bang on the centreline, and their heads are too low in the frame for my liking. I reckon you could easily improve this one with a very simple crop, but seeing as how you don't want yer snaps editing ...

Anyhow, as ever, the above just FWIW.
 
I really like in just 4 images you have given and real nice insight of the day I really like B+W images of wedding days cant put my finger on why, good work Gaz

Thanks, Terry. :)

#1 is well caught, but a slightly lower viewpoint could easily have lost you that very intrusive coathanger and maybe also the clutter coming out of Mum's (?) head. (If it's any consolation, it took me maybe 200 weddings to get to the point where I could usually avoid exactly this sort of problem with prep shots.)

#2 is also well caught, although I'm not convinced by the framing. Incidentally, IMO both these first two would have considerably more impact if they'd been shot from a little closer with a shorter focal length.

#3 is nice enough, but for me the composition suffers from their eyes being near as dammit on the centreline. I reckon they needed to be maybe 2/3 of the way up.

#4 is really nice (and well done for getting both the rings in without it looking too contrived), but again the framing's out for me. The joint in the boards is bang on the centreline, and their heads are too low in the frame for my liking. I reckon you could easily improve this one with a very simple crop, but seeing as how you don't want yer snaps editing ...

Anyhow, as ever, the above just FWIW.

Interesting that you say about going shorter and closer on the first two. These were at 24mm.

As for number 4, there was no concious thought there about getting both the rings in. In fact, it never even occurred to me until you just mentioned it.

Of course I appreciate the time taken to comment, as always. It kinda reinforced some of my thoughts that I perhaps shouldn't be doing this just yet, although feel bad now with them being on a public forum where their family and friends can now see and hear all the things that are wrong with them and why they perhaps shouldn't pay the money they have done. But I do want to improve, just wish I knew where to turn next.
 
Like them Gaz.

Good strong set. It has never bothered my about things that in the background, its real ;)

Also understand what Dan is saying, but that doesn't bother me about lines coming straight from the head. Thats personal choice though, I agree on a different crop would make it better.
 
Like them Gaz.

Good strong set. It has never bothered my about things that in the background, its real ;)

Also understand what Dan is saying, but that doesn't bother me about lines coming straight from the head. Thats personal choice though, I agree on a different crop would make it better.

Thanks, Andy. Appreciate the comments.

Strange these days how posts like the original one here gets 'likes' but no comments/critiques. I dislike this feature. :D
 
Hi Gaz

In keeping with your request I haven't hit "Like", and I am commenting instead :D

1 - Love it & the PP except - that bloody coat hanger !!! Fastening a Bride into a dress is slow enough to pay a bit of attention to detail, and I'd have moved it; if not completely out of shot then at least out of her head

2 - Love it & the PP except - the black thing in the back is a bit too eye catching, it'd be fine a bit greyer, and I reckon the 'high key' look stops at the RHS of the door, so I'd be tempted to lose the thing with deer on it that's on the far right - I like it pretty square then

3 - Turning her away from the sun works well and unlike Syd I don't mind the compression of a longer lens. I do mind that his right hand looks like a pig's trotter as there's only 2 fingers showing and his jacket is bunched up as its still fastened, which also make him look fatter. There are tidier ways to deal with hands together and a fail-safe is to unbutton the jacket and stick the hand in a trouser pocket, and if you do that lower the flowers a bit so you can see her bust

4 - Expression & mood is lovely, hands are untidy but it looks like more of a 'moment' shot than highly posed so I'll allow that one. I would always approach a shot like this from the Bride being 'Butterfly' lit on her face (or short-lit) and the Groom taking whatever's left, Broad-lighting on her has added a hard shadow to her nose making it look long; if they'd been the other way around, or at least her in the Groom's position then it'd have been more flattering on her. Composition here is whatever you want it to be for me, I don't mind this at all neither would I have minded pretty much any other crop too - its a style thing more than a rule following thing and this kind of background allows for all manner of compositions :)

You know that I really like your work, and I like the PP in all of these too, but for me - IF you get chance and IF it suits how you like to shoot - then take these sorts of shots then spending a few seconds on 'tidying-up' will improve things in my eyes :)

Not that you should give a toss about my eyes lol :D

Dave
 
And - I've just looked through the Blog now too

Lovely mate :)

BUT - there are two shots where they are sat on something with their feet on the top of a bench - in shot one, his fingers look like a bunch of bananas on her shoulder, that's bad in my book; the one immediately after though is just his finger ends, and that's criminal !!! lol

You know when I mentioned 'tidying-up' - this is EXACTLY what I meant :D

Great set though and a definite style coming through

Dave
 
Hi Gaz,

I've looked at your blog entry and I have to say I really like them, nice colours, very vibrant, beautiful b&w versions. I assume you just starting, so all these issues with 'coat hangers' or 'mess' are allowed at least in my eyes. With time and experience, you will gain this extra power called 'extreme attention to detail' for now I think they are very good. You have covered whole day beautifully, with great shots and different perspectives. Congratulation!

P.S. Sorry for not providing some constructive criticism :wacky:
 
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Hi Gaz

In keeping with your request I haven't hit "Like", and I am commenting instead :D

1 - Love it & the PP except - that bloody coat hanger !!! Fastening a Bride into a dress is slow enough to pay a bit of attention to detail, and I'd have moved it; if not completely out of shot then at least out of her head

2 - Love it & the PP except - the black thing in the back is a bit too eye catching, it'd be fine a bit greyer, and I reckon the 'high key' look stops at the RHS of the door, so I'd be tempted to lose the thing with deer on it that's on the far right - I like it pretty square then

3 - Turning her away from the sun works well and unlike Syd I don't mind the compression of a longer lens. I do mind that his right hand looks like a pig's trotter as there's only 2 fingers showing and his jacket is bunched up as its still fastened, which also make him look fatter. There are tidier ways to deal with hands together and a fail-safe is to unbutton the jacket and stick the hand in a trouser pocket, and if you do that lower the flowers a bit so you can see her bust

4 - Expression & mood is lovely, hands are untidy but it looks like more of a 'moment' shot than highly posed so I'll allow that one. I would always approach a shot like this from the Bride being 'Butterfly' lit on her face (or short-lit) and the Groom taking whatever's left, Broad-lighting on her has added a hard shadow to her nose making it look long; if they'd been the other way around, or at least her in the Groom's position then it'd have been more flattering on her. Composition here is whatever you want it to be for me, I don't mind this at all neither would I have minded pretty much any other crop too - its a style thing more than a rule following thing and this kind of background allows for all manner of compositions :)

You know that I really like your work, and I like the PP in all of these too, but for me - IF you get chance and IF it suits how you like to shoot - then take these sorts of shots then spending a few seconds on 'tidying-up' will improve things in my eyes :)

Not that you should give a toss about my eyes lol :D

Dave
And - I've just looked through the Blog now too

Lovely mate :)

BUT - there are two shots where they are sat on something with their feet on the top of a bench - in shot one, his fingers look like a bunch of bananas on her shoulder, that's bad in my book; the one immediately after though is just his finger ends, and that's criminal !!! lol

You know when I mentioned 'tidying-up' - this is EXACTLY what I meant :D

Great set though and a definite style coming through

Dave


Thanks for taking the time to comment and look through the whole post rather than just clicking like! :D

Some good points about the little details, especially at the slower parts. I will have to bear that in mind for sure. There's very little I do that's highly posed, but perhaps I should do a little more that are? I dunno, it's this whole 'finding my way' stuff. Who knows what I will do at the next one (although not too differently!).

Thanks again. :)

Hi Gaz,

I've looked at your blog entry and I have to say I really like them, nice colours, very vibrant, beautiful b&w versions. I assume you just starting, so all these issues with 'coat hangers' or 'mess' are allowed at least in my eyes. With time and experience, you will gain this extra power called 'extreme attention to detail' for now I think they are very good. You have covered whole day beautifully, with great shots and different perspectives. Congratulation!

P.S. Sorry for not providing some constructive criticism :wacky:

Thanks for commenting. When you say 'just starting', I am about 15 weddings in now, give or take so not dead new but still, yes, in the grand scheme of things. Although I don'd mind some real stuff in the background to be honest, but I will perhaps learn to eliminate some of it. What I won't do, is go around tidying up peoples homes to the extreme, as where does that end?
 
Oh, sorry from your first message I got the feeling that maybe it is beginning, but 15 weddings that is really good! Keep up the good work. Regarding tidying up, that can probably only lead to opening a wedding&cleaning business...I can only see positive to that outcome!;)
 
Thanks for taking the time to comment and look through the whole post rather than just clicking like! :D

Some good points about the little details, especially at the slower parts. I will have to bear that in mind for sure. There's very little I do that's highly posed, but perhaps I should do a little more that are? I dunno, it's this whole 'finding my way' stuff. Who knows what I will do at the next one (although not too differently!).


This is your problem - full "Reportage' and all the 'tidy' bits are left 'untidied' - your clients may love it as they know no better, togs will wonder why you didn't tidy stuff up if & when you had chance

No-one I've ever seen does true 'Reportage', some lie about it I'm sure, you just need to find that point where you're happy with any intrusion

Example - at my pre-wedding planning meeting I school my couples in how to hold each other to avoid stray hands, like in your photos, on their Wedding day some remember enough to joke about moving them "correctly" out of the way; we laugh about it

So am I then shooting Reportage or schooled pretend Reportage ???

Did they just happen to cuddle in a nice place/light or was that element of Reportage suggested/directed ???

I doubt any true Reportage exists, and why would it when with the simplest and shortest of direction things can look MUCH better

Up to you matey

Dave
 
This is your problem - full "Reportage' and all the 'tidy' bits are left 'untidied' - your clients may love it as they know no better, togs will wonder why you didn't tidy stuff up if & when you had chance

No-one I've ever seen does true 'Reportage', some lie about it I'm sure, you just need to find that point where you're happy with any intrusion

Example - at my pre-wedding planning meeting I school my couples in how to hold each other to avoid stray hands, like in your photos, on their Wedding day some remember enough to joke about moving them "correctly" out of the way; we laugh about it

So am I then shooting Reportage or schooled pretend Reportage ???

Did they just happen to cuddle in a nice place/light or was that element of Reportage suggested/directed ???

I doubt any true Reportage exists, and why would it when with the simplest and shortest of direction things can look MUCH better

Up to you matey

Dave

Hey, I'm still learning so more than happy to hear about all this and what you're saying totally makes sense. I do consider that the top people I admire direct or get people to how/where they want them in a way that doesn't make it feel like they are posing people as such. I'm just sorting some training out in the near future in fact that will hopefully address things such as this. [emoji4]
 
Thanks for posting Gaz, I really enjoyed the set.

I agree with some of the points made, but I wouldnt get hung up (;)) on any of them.

I value critique as much as anyone but I think sometimes these wedding threads get derailed with nit picking. The whole point of wedding photography (afaik) is to tell the story of the day and capture the mood and emotion. You've done that really well in my opinion so looking at the odd image and picking it to pieces really doesn't mean much. But you did ask for critique and everything that's been said is correct, I guess.

The point I'm making is you could post up shots from anyone - literally - and they'd be picked to pieces in much the same way. I think the biggest part is accepting where you are with your weddings, what you can reasonable do to improve, and what is or isn't important to you as a photographer... coat hangers may or may not be one of those things.
 
This is your problem - full "Reportage' and all the 'tidy' bits are left 'untidied' - your clients may love it as they know no better, togs will wonder why you didn't tidy stuff up if & when you had chance

Yep, many of his clients will be fine with it, but some of his prospective customers will think "Great picture. Shame about that coat hanger." And yes, the more trad-orientated wedding snappers (and those who have never shot prep) will wonder why he didn't tidy stuff up. However, documentary wedding photographers will understand why he didn't tidy stuff up, and they'll also know that in time he should be able to lose stuff like that behind the subject. All it takes is application and experience. As I said, it took a lot of weddings before I could do it most of the time with prep shots. (Ann learned quicker than I did ;))

No-one I've ever seen does true 'Reportage', some lie about it I'm sure, you just need to find that point where you're happy with any intrusion

Me neither, if you define "reportage" as no intervention at all, and for certain some lie through their teeth about it, - and I'd be with you 100% on that last bit too if you'd said intervention rather than intrusion. But hey, whatever you do is right for you if it gets you the gigs you want and earns you a living ... :)
 
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but I wouldnt get hung up (;)) on any of them.

Of course he shouldn't get hung up on any of them, but he asked for crit and as I saw it he was asking - what could I have done better

So that's what my suggestions are, its not nit picking (which I take as being negative crit) its hints as t what to watch out for to improve upon :)

Dave
 
Of course he shouldn't get hung up on any of them, but he asked for crit and as I saw it he was asking - what could I have done better

So that's what my suggestions are, its not nit picking (which I take as being negative crit) its hints as t what to watch out for to improve upon :)

Dave

Exactly. And there's another aspect which Adam has perhaps not considered. With wedding photography in particular, you're aiming to please four people with every picture you deliver - the two who booked you and the next two who are thinking about booking you. Therefore whether or not something about a picture bugs you (generic) is often immaterial in the overall scheme of things.
 
Thanks for posting Gaz, I really enjoyed the set.

I agree with some of the points made, but I wouldnt get hung up (;)) on any of them.

I value critique as much as anyone but I think sometimes these wedding threads get derailed with nit picking. The whole point of wedding photography (afaik) is to tell the story of the day and capture the mood and emotion. You've done that really well in my opinion so looking at the odd image and picking it to pieces really doesn't mean much. But you did ask for critique and everything that's been said is correct, I guess.

The point I'm making is you could post up shots from anyone - literally - and they'd be picked to pieces in much the same way. I think the biggest part is accepting where you are with your weddings, what you can reasonable do to improve, and what is or isn't important to you as a photographer... coat hangers may or may not be one of those things.

Thanks for taking the time, Adam. Not sure it's too nit picky, but as Dave says below, things to watch out for in the future. I still think my stuff looks very amateur and snapshotty and I want to get away from that.

Of course he shouldn't get hung up on any of them, but he asked for crit and as I saw it he was asking - what could I have done better

So that's what my suggestions are, its not nit picking (which I take as being negative crit) its hints as t what to watch out for to improve upon :)

Dave

Yeah I get that and will definitely try and pay more attention to things like this in the future.

Exactly. And there's another aspect which Adam has perhaps not considered. With wedding photography in particular, you're aiming to please four people with every picture you deliver - the two who booked you and the next two who are thinking about booking you. Therefore whether or not something about a picture bugs you (generic) is often immaterial in the overall scheme of things.

What about person number 5, myself?
 
What about person number 5, myself?

That's up to you.

The only pictures either of us can recall taking professionally at a wedding for ourselves are either funnies or record shots of the "gosh look where we are" kind. Apart from those, every photograph we took at a wedding was shot with the couple in mind, or the portfolio/blog in mind, or both.
 
Of course I appreciate the time taken to comment, as always. It kinda reinforced some of my thoughts that I perhaps shouldn't be doing this just yet, although feel bad now with them being on a public forum where their family and friends can now see and hear all the things that are wrong with them and why they perhaps shouldn't pay the money they have done. But I do want to improve, just wish I knew where to turn next.

Hi Gareth,

Can I ask what it is about the four pictures you've posted that YOU like. I think you've talked at length about your lack of confidence/happiness in your own work, so I'm wondering in the case of these particular pictures what it is that you like most about them. This isn't a trick question by the way, in fact I'm hoping it will help you appreciate your own work more.
 
That's up to you.

The only pictures either of us can recall taking professionally at a wedding for ourselves are either funnies or record shots of the "gosh look where we are" kind. Apart from those, every photograph we took at a wedding was shot with the couple in mind, or the portfolio/blog in mind, or both.

What I meant was, you said the only four people you are aiming to please are the couple and the next couple. What about pleasing yourself? Surely that's important too that you are happy with the work you are creating?

Hi Gareth,

Can I ask what it is about the four pictures you've posted that YOU like. I think you've talked at length about your lack of confidence/happiness in your own work, so I'm wondering in the case of these particular pictures what it is that you like most about them. This isn't a trick question by the way, in fact I'm hoping it will help you appreciate your own work more.

Not the foggiest. Just chose fairly random images and moment from throughout the day that give the people who won't click the link an idea of what I am doing and where I am and hopefully get some pointers and critique of how I could capture these scenes/moments better.
 
... What about pleasing yourself? Surely that's important too that you are happy with the work you are creating?

Sorry, I misunderstood. We were never really happy with the snaps we took. We just got less unhappy with them over time - and the biggest single factors in that were experience and critique from our peers.
 
Sorry, I misunderstood. We were never really happy with the snaps we took. We just got less unhappy with them over time - and the biggest single factors in that were experience and critique from our peers.

Sounds familiar.

Crumbs, that means I am in for the long haul of constantly being disappointed. :D
 
You are being very harsh on yourself in my opinion. I bet the couple will be very happy with your work and it's most definitely not amateur looking and snapshotty!! Your problem isn't your work, it's your confidence :)
 
You are being very harsh on yourself in my opinion. I bet the couple will be very happy with your work and it's most definitely not amateur looking and snapshotty!! Your problem isn't your work, it's your confidence :)

This is something a lot of people have being telling Gaz for ages - me included. A lovely set on your blog, the four you posted are not the strongest (low framing in two of them) and I'd encourage people to check out the blog.

Sorry we couldn't sort you out shooting our wedding, if we hadn't already booked and paid a deposit you'd have had a gig on Sunday for definite. I won't be doing it again!!!....but I have two daughters so you may get a wedding from me yet.

Work on your confidence, your photography doesn't need much improvement if you ask me (from a punter's PoV not a snapper's).
 
No-one has mentioned the phone in his pocket.
 
Thanks, Andy. Appreciate the comments.

Strange these days how posts like the original one here gets 'likes' but no comments/critiques. I dislike this feature. :D

Probably because the "liker" has no original comment and maybe not the time to spend digesting the photo and its merits. All been said before!

I really like the story board of the complete blog (whats a blog)

A complete account of the wedding day. The couple will be thrilled with the originality of the photos and the whole account.

If anyone here has not looked at the blog, please do, its so much more than the four (great) photos posted here.

MJ:):)
 
As an overall bit of feedback, I love your colour processing, It's something I struggle with myself.

But all in all, a strong set in my opinion.
 
You are being very harsh on yourself in my opinion. I bet the couple will be very happy with your work and it's most definitely not amateur looking and snapshotty!! Your problem isn't your work, it's your confidence :)

Thank you. :)

This is something a lot of people have being telling Gaz for ages - me included. A lovely set on your blog, the four you posted are not the strongest (low framing in two of them) and I'd encourage people to check out the blog.

Sorry we couldn't sort you out shooting our wedding, if we hadn't already booked and paid a deposit you'd have had a gig on Sunday for definite. I won't be doing it again!!!....but I have two daughters so you may get a wedding from me yet.

Work on your confidence, your photography doesn't need much improvement if you ask me (from a punter's PoV not a snapper's).

Thank you. Hope all goes well on your wedding day. As for the low framing, I actually quite like it in the groom prep one. Maybe. I might change my mind by tonight.

No-one has mentioned the phone in his pocket.
I was referring to YOU lol :D

And yes well spotted. I always look out for that with my couples, odd I missed it in the photo, must be slipping :(

Dave

FFS! Ha. I hadn't noticed it until now either. Oh well, can't change that now but a lesson for the future. Why on earth people need to have phones with them constantly is beyond me.
Probably because the "liker" has no original comment and maybe not the time to spend digesting the photo and its merits. All been said before!

I really like the story board of the complete blog (whats a blog)

A complete account of the wedding day. The couple will be thrilled with the originality of the photos and the whole account.

If anyone here has not looked at the blog, please do, its so much more than the four (great) photos posted here.

MJ:):)

Thank you for checking out the entire post and for the kind words.

As an overall bit of feedback, I love your colour processing, It's something I struggle with myself.

But all in all, a strong set in my opinion.

Interesting and thank you. I say interesting as it's something I was looking to evolve/change/work on as I am not sure I like it any more, especially when I see people posting with really strong contract and colours. :/
 
What has been seen cannot be unseen :) Just another thing to look out for. Subjects can be very annoying!
 
What I meant was, you said the only four people you are aiming to please are the couple and the next couple. What about pleasing yourself? Surely that's important too that you are happy with the work you are creating?



Not the foggiest. Just chose fairly random images and moment from throughout the day that give the people who won't click the link an idea of what I am doing and where I am and hopefully get some pointers and critique of how I could capture these scenes/moments better.


If you haven't got the foggiest idea about what you like about these photos then I'd suggest you start to give this a lot of thought. Because if you don't KNOW what you like about a photo, how can you hope to produce images that you like week in and week out. You talk about the importance of liking your work as much as the couple and your peers but you then admit you don't know what you like. Maybe a bad choice of words on your part, but (as read) you need to know what you like and don't like ASAP.

With regards the four pictures you posted, I'm trying to work out why he changed suits part way through the wedding.
 
I'm trying to work out why he changed suits part way through the wedding.

Sounds like a pointless dig at the processing :(

So long as they don't go onto the same page, and hence be obvious, its not a problem at all for me. I have this often too as I too PP different types of shots differently and of course light changes its own WB too; I wouldn't dream of killing a lovely sunset to try to match a suit/dress colour to an earlier flash or tungsten lit shot for example

Dave
 
I really like them Gareth and I like your PP too.

Yes, there a few little things like the phone in the pocket or the coat hanger that might have been moved but we are all here looking at the photos from a photographers POV and we are looking for things to comment on or content for CC (that is no bad thing as we all want to improve and every point should be noted). I guarantee most punters wouldn't give those things a second glance and would love these for their wedding pics though.
 
I love the Blog, some interesting takes, shame about the Mobile Phone - but we all have them and forget they are with us

Overall I love them ( the images not mobile phones ) :p

Les ;)
 
Sounds like a pointless dig at the processing :(

So long as they don't go onto the same page, and hence be obvious, its not a problem at all for me. I have this often too as I too PP different types of shots differently and of course light changes its own WB too; I wouldn't dream of killing a lovely sunset to try to match a suit/dress colour to an earlier flash or tungsten lit shot for example

Dave

I don't really have the time to make "pointless digs" at anything. If I take the time to comment it's with the intention of helping. And whilst it was said with tongue in cheek I don't like to see this much disparity between colours. My first thought on seeing image 4 was that the shadows had been pushed far too far in post production. Of course I'll never know if that was the case or not....

Regards the blog. Overall a good set but some I'd bin or at least try to do better next time. Examples:-

Groom at bar - shame you didn't time this before he turned his head away.
Hangers - both grooms and brides
Bride coming down stairs - just lost the bottom of her foot. Shame as great expression.
Father hugging daughter - focus is on the back of his head rather than her face. As a side note I think the focus is off on the shot of bride laughing just after the shot of her coming down stairs.
Shot after hugging - focus looks to be on bridesmaid wearing glasses in background
Kissing in church - framing a little off to leave lots of head-room and cut off hands.
First shot of B&G in countryside - not a far of his arm hanging loose like this. Pose is also very open to camera which takes away the "caught in the moment" feel it could have had.
Best-Man speech. Move left or right to get rid of light fitting in background
Bride and groom sitting on wall - try to avoid shooting into grooms crotch and hands could have been better placed
First first-dance shot. Cut off their feet - might been better to get in closer to shoot mid thigh upwards.
The two images in the lane before Number 4 above - colour balance too inconsistent for my liking and two images which could easily sit together in an album.

That's it. Overall some fab images and great moments captured in a nice, relaxed style. Just a few little bits of attention to detail really.
 
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