Another Lightroom alternative wanted discussion.

seaodyssey

seaodyssey

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4,643
Name
Pete
Edit My Images
Yes
I do not want to pay adobe or any other vendor a subscription.

I currently have Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS5 and its working for me now.
However I'm on the lookout for a replacement.
I mainly use 2 computers, a desktop at home and a laptop when I'm not at home.

It must have a library feature like lightroom with keywords and it must make working with 2 computers as simple as possible.

Lightroom can save the files onto an external harddrive / network location apart from the catalog and so must any replacement and if possible the catalog should also work on from a network drive. I'm not worried about multiple users using the catalog.

My Aim is to have only 1 location for my Images and catalog data. Of course it will be backed up.

Do you use a lightroom alternative.
Do it have a catalog feature or do you use someother program for this such as Imatch.
Where can you store your Image files
Where can you store your catalog data.
Does it replace both lightroom and photoshop for you.

Any Cons and Pros you have found so far.

Thanks Pete
 
PC or Mac? On a Mac, the Photos app is getting quite good now for cataloging (with access to common images over cloud to connected laptops, iPads, Phones etc). Affinity is a suitable Photoshop replacement.
That said, I'm still on Lightroom as their multi device workflow (desktop / tablet) works very well for me.
 
im similarly looking although yet to get beyond trial versions and so far Lightroom and photoshop seem to be the best integrated package for converting RAW, cataloging, post processing and manipulating images.
my research tends to indicate 3 programs to achieve what the adobe subsription does needing either a Raw converter or cataloging system.
 
As David says if on Mac I would combine Photos app with Affinity photo as a possible solution,if pc I’m not sure
 
I’m interested, why, if you have a set up that’s works for you and doesn’t cost you anything, you want to change to something that does what your software does now and, perhaps with the exception of Capture One, will probably not be as efficient at doing it.
 
Gaz J said:
I’m interested, why, if you have a set up that’s works for you and doesn’t cost you anything, you want to change to something that does what your software does now and, perhaps with the exception of Capture One, will probably not be as efficient at doing it.
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It is not going to work forever. New cameras will not be supported. I know about the DNG converter software but that adds another step. Also with newr software you get new editing options such as dehaze, better masking solutions and at somepoint the OS will not support the old software.

Pete
 
I also use LR and Photoshop and have recently started using Capture 1 Pro (For Sony).
I find it quite intuitive to use and it is layer based too.
I have it setup the same as LR with my files and Catalog on a portable SSD drive that I use on my Laptop and Desktop.
The interface is quite configurable and I'm enjoying using it even more so as I get more familiar with it.
You can download a fully working 30 day free trial.
If you use Sony cameras there is a paired down version for free or the fully functional Pro version for £90, if you want it to support other brands then you need to purchase the Pro version and I'm not sure what it costs.
 
I'm sure a lot of people will say "Download a trial and test it yourself."
However, there is only so much that you can derive from an evaluation, and one tends to come across different situations when using a program "for real."

I too am a former Lightroom user, with a small amount of Photoshop for things that LR doesn't cover, like large object removal and occasional sky replacement.
Because of my light use of Photoshop, the rental model represents very poor value for me, since I'm paying monthly for something I rarely use.
I have trialled a number of CC alternatives and, for the time being at least, I have settled on On1 Photo raw 2018 as my raw developer.

Like a number of LR alternatives, On1 has layers, which allow it to do many things that previously needed Photoshop.
Unlike Lightroom, On1 has a file browser, which allows you to view the files on your hard drive and work on them, no "catalog" required.
On1 supports keywords, and you can search keywords for an image, the same way as Lightroom.
There obviously is a learning curve, but in general, the developer functions are similar to Lightroom.
As well as basic developer functions there are also a number of special "tools" all of which come with their own masks, so that you can control where they are applied.
With layers and masks On1 is a powerful tool and in many respects is a replacement for Lightroom and Photoshop.

On1raw 2018 is available as a trial, so I would recommend you download and try it, and if you shop around you should be able to find a discount code for it.
There are also lots of "how to" videos on YouTube, and I would particularly recommend the series by Anthony Morganti.
 
seaodyssey said:
I do not want to pay adobe or any other vendor a subscription.

I currently have Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS5 and its working for me now.
However I'm on the lookout for a replacement.
I mainly use 2 computers, a desktop at home and a laptop when I'm not at home.

It must have a library feature like lightroom with keywords and it must make working with 2 computers as simple as possible.

Lightroom can save the files onto an external harddrive / network location apart from the catalog and so must any replacement and if possible the catalog should also work on from a network drive. I'm not worried about multiple users using the catalog.

My Aim is to have only 1 location for my Images and catalog data. Of course it will be backed up.

Do you use a lightroom alternative.
Do it have a catalog feature or do you use someother program for this such as Imatch.
Where can you store your Image files
Where can you store your catalog data.
Does it replace both lightroom and photoshop for you.

Any Cons and Pros you have found so far.

Thanks Pete
Click to expand...
Digikam has extensive DAM features and is very configurable. It let's you plug in any editor and raw processor. Such as Raw Therapee or DarkTable. It has its own raw processor. But I prefer a dedicated one.

Digikam has extensive search, tags, flags, thumbnails, calendar, geotagging, face recognition, duplicate finder, edit meta data and more. It downloads pictures from the camera and uploads to Flikr etc.

It's also free and open source and has frequent updates. Digikam.org
 
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I'd probably add a recomendation for On1 Photo Raw now too - their software has come a long way the system is maturing nicely. Browsing is now a lot faster than in Lightroom, and the processing and lens corrections works well.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I'd probably add a recomendation for On1 Photo Raw now too - their software has come a long way the system is maturing nicely. Browsing is now a lot faster than in Lightroom, and the processing and lens corrections works well.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree that ON1 RAW 2018 has improved substantially over the last 18 months and is certainly worth considering. One I have also been looking at recently which is very similar to Lightroom is Alien Skin Exposure 3. There is no cataloging as such and like ON1 RAW is available on a 30 day trial. Future improvements are promised so could be worth a punt.
 
I see the reduced price for 2018.5 ends in a few days. Does that mean version 2019 is due out soon?
 
seaodyssey said:
I see the reduced price for 2018.5 ends in a few days. Does that mean version 2019 is due out soon?
Click to expand...

Very likely, though not for a couple of months I suspect. What they'll probably do soon is a promotion with 'free' upgrade to 2019 if you buy 2018 now.
 
Well I'm going to give On1 Raw Photo 2018.5 a miss for a while.

Couple of reasons why.
1 - Can't see how to backup it's Database, where ever it is located, I know it uses SQLite but that is all. I know you can save edits in sidecar files, but what about all the other bits the database.

2 - I was getting crashes while doing several things(saving Pano files, even browsing photos), most times it crashed Windows10 as well. I know it was developed on Macs and they are different beasts so to me it looks like they need to get some top Flight Windows developers on Board.

I did like the develope module, it was very easy to use.
 
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seaodyssey said:
Well I'm going to give On1 Raw Photo 2018.5 a miss for a while.

Couple of reasons why.
1 - Can't see how to backup it's Database, where ever it is located, I know it uses SQLite but that is all. I know you can save edits in sidecar files, but what about all the other bits the database.

2 - I was getting crashes while doing several things(saving Pano files, even browsing photos), most times it crashed Windows10 as well. I know it was developed on Macs and they are different beasts so to me it looks like they need to get some top Flight Windows developers on Board.

I did like the develope module, it was very easy to use.
Click to expand...
I have had a few crashes, but not enough to make me want to stop using On1.

The lack of backup for the catalog is something that concerns me, but again, not enough to make me stop using it.
All the time I was using Lightroom, I cannot recall ever having to revert to a backup.
 
I'm in a similar position. Very pee'd off with Adobe for imposing the subscription model on us Lightroom users. I'm giving Affinity Photo a try but it seems to be very much in the Photoshop model and thus requires a steep learning curve which I failed at the first hurdle with so far. But I plan to persevere.

Hopefully there are developers out there who are working on a true Lightroom replacement if it doesn't yet exist.

I'm interested to see the recommendations for On 1.
 
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Have used Photo Raw for some time now and crashes are very rare (I am a Mac user though, however the differences these days are mainly down to OS)...

Regards Photo Raws catalogued folders, it is an option, you can still browse and work on any image without importing into a catalogue. When you catalogue a folder in Photo Raw that folder basically becomes a watched folder and browsing is improved due to prebuilt preview caches etc. The metadata and image edits are apparently stored in two no-SQL databases which (as far as I understand) back up automatically and can self repair and use the backups seamlessly... (it would be nice though to be able to backup to your own backup location, perhaps something for them to work on), I always have the sidecar file option turned on as added security.
 
jerry12953 said:
I'm in a similar position. Very pee'd off with Adobe for imposing the subscription model on us Lightroom users. I'm giving Affinity Photo a try but it seems to be very much in the Photoshop model and thus requires a steep learning curve which I failed at the first hurdle with so far. But I plan to persevere.

Hopefully there are developers out there who are working on a true Lightroom replacement if it doesn't yet exist.

I'm interested to see the recommendations for On 1.
Click to expand...
I've auditioned just about all of the major Lightroom alternatives and, as far as I'm concerned, On1 is the replacement for Lightroom.
Not only that, but with the addition of layers and masks, it does most of what I'd occasionally used Photoshop for, so for me, it's replacing two Adobe programs.
Don't forget that Lightroom and Photoshop have been subject to many years of development and On1 has only been around a relatively short time.
On1 seem to be very receptive of user feedback and appear to be determined to make Photo RAW a viable alternative.
For the time being On1 will be the only raw developer program I'm using.

PhilH04 said:
Have used Photo Raw for some time now and crashes are very rare (I am a Mac user though, however the differences these days are mainly down to OS)...

Regards Photo Raws catalogued folders, it is an option, you can still browse and work on any image without importing into a catalogue. When you catalogue a folder in Photo Raw that folder basically becomes a watched folder and browsing is improved due to prebuilt preview caches etc. The metadata and image edits are apparently stored in two no-SQL databases which (as far as I understand) back up automatically and can self repair and use the backups seamlessly... (it would be nice though to be able to backup to your own backup location, perhaps something for them to work on), I always have the sidecar file option turned on as added security.
Click to expand...
The other thing about cataloging your folders is that you can then search for an image by title and keywords, in exactly the same way as with Lightroom.
 
Brian G said:
I've auditioned just about all of the major Lightroom alternatives and, as far as I'm concerned, On1 is the replacement for Lightroom.
Not only that, but with the addition of layers and masks, it does most of what I'd occasionally used Photoshop for, so for me, it's replacing two Adobe programs.
Don't forget that Lightroom and Photoshop have been subject to many years of development and On1 has only been around a relatively short time.
On1 seem to be very receptive of user feedback and appear to be determined to make Photo RAW a viable alternative.
For the time being On1 will be the only raw developer program I'm using.


The other thing about cataloging your folders is that you can then search for an image by title and keywords, in exactly the same way as with Lightroom.
Click to expand...

Interesting reading this. I'm quite happy with LR but probably like many, feel a bit uncomfortable with the whole subscription thing.

Reading a bit about On1, it seems that exporting from LR to On1 can be quite painless. Is that the reality?
 
gad-westy said:
Interesting reading this. I'm quite happy with LR but probably like many, feel a bit uncomfortable with the whole subscription thing.

Reading a bit about On1, it seems that exporting from LR to On1 can be quite painless. Is that the reality?
Click to expand...
Not quite sure what you mean by "exporting from Lightroom to On1."
They are two separate programs and there is very little that interchanges between them.
On1 (along with every other raw developer that I'm aware of) cannot recognise the edits that have been created in Lightroom, so you cannot transfer a LR edited image into On1 and continue editing it.
Once you open your raw file in On1 you are free to create your own adjustments from scratch.

The UI of the basic On1 developer is very similar, in terms of sliders and functions, to that of LR, but like any program, there is a learning curve.
You have a "Mid tones" adjustment in addition to "Shadows" and the "Clarity" slider in LR is called "Structure" in On1, otherwise the basic adjustments are broadly similar.
Where On1 scores over LR (in my opinion) is the availability of Layers and Masks, which allow On1 to do many of the things that previously required the full Photoshop.

Like most programs, you can download a free trial of On1, so if you are interested then that's the way to go.
There are lots of On1 video tuorials on "YouTube" and I'd suggest you take a look at some of them.
I'd particularly mention the series of "YouTube" tutorials by Anthony Morganti.
 
On1 looks good, thought I have attempted to evaluate it twice and found it quite unreliable with lots of crashes which is irritating. Personally I'm interested in ACDSee which feels a more 'mature' app (it's been around a while) though there were a couple of features that were either missing or I just couldn't find!

I think I need to decide if I want a single integrated replacement for Lr or whether to bite the bullet and move to a seperate DAM / RAW processor which would give me more options, though not as much integration.
 
I tried Capture one for Sony both the free version and the trial version, I found it to be more intuitive than LR and I thought that sony raw pictures looked better straight of the camera than they did in LR. It is going to be a hard choice for me when my LR subscription runs out particularly as I have already got Affinity which I rate very highly compared to Photoshop. My concern is how much it will cost to keep Capture One updated.
 
Brian G said:
Not quite sure what you mean by "exporting from Lightroom to On1."
They are two separate programs and there is very little that interchanges between them.
On1 (along with every other raw developer that I'm aware of) cannot recognise the edits that have been created in Lightroom, so you cannot transfer a LR edited image into On1 and continue editing it.
Once you open your raw file in On1 you are free to create your own adjustments from scratch.

The UI of the basic On1 developer is very similar, in terms of sliders and functions, to that of LR, but like any program, there is a learning curve.
You have a "Mid tones" adjustment in addition to "Shadows" and the "Clarity" slider in LR is called "Structure" in On1, otherwise the basic adjustments are broadly similar.
Where On1 scores over LR (in my opinion) is the availability of Layers and Masks, which allow On1 to do many of the things that previously required the full Photoshop.

Like most programs, you can download a free trial of On1, so if you are interested then that's the way to go.
There are lots of On1 video tuorials on "YouTube" and I'd suggest you take a look at some of them.
I'd particularly mention the series of "YouTube" tutorials by Anthony Morganti.
Click to expand...

Cheers, I realised the edit information cannot be exported but I understand that On1 has a migration tool which sets out to maintain any exif changes as well as collection structure. I just wondered how well it actually works.

As you say, a trial seems a good idea.
 
Brian G said:
On1 (along with every other raw developer that I'm aware of) cannot recognise the edits that have been created in Lightroom, so you cannot transfer a LR edited image into On1 and continue editing it.
Click to expand...

Brian, does On1 recognise edit data saved in a sidecar file (.xmp)? If it does then there is (or used to be) an option in Lightroom to save edits to a sidecar file which would then enable On1 to see the edits already make to each file.
 
ancient_mariner said:
This may be useful: https://www.on1.com/blog/3-steps-for-moving-from-lightroom-to-on1-photo-raw/

On1 can transfer across key words etc but cannot replicate the edits you created when processing images in Lightroom.
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Quite so.

In the moving from Lightroom to On1 instructions, On1 say:

"Option 2:
Create copies with the edits applied to them.

If you create copies, the Migration Assistant will find any photos in Lightroom with edits and will create a copy in the format you desire. The copies are stored next to the original photos."

Note that it says "create a copy in the format you desire" this means it is NOT saving the original raw file but a copy of the file with the Lightroom edits applied and, although I've never used it, I'm assuming it will be a tiff or jpg file.
There's no way that On1 (or any other raw program) can take the information relating to the Lightroom edits and apply them in On1 format.
So far I've only used On1 for new images, and I'm not really interested seeing my Lightroom edits on older files. If I want to do that I can always open Lightroom.

For me, part of the appeal of using a new program is to achieve better results than those I have created in the past, but life's not long enough to go back and re-edit all my raw files from previous decades.
 
Bristolian said:
Brian, does On1 recognise edit data saved in a sidecar file (.xmp)? If it does then there is (or used to be) an option in Lightroom to save edits to a sidecar file which would then enable On1 to see the edits already make to each file.
Click to expand...
Lightroom edits are stored in the LR catalog, not the .xmp sidecar, which only keeps title, keywords, IPTC information etc.
On1 has it's own sidecar files which store all the edit information.
 
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