Bats seen.....

Box Brownie

Box Brownie

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Also a WCMUT ~ I have seen at dusk bats around but this evening with very good light spotted 4 to 5 bats quartering across a small'ish area of the nearby treeline....................they were there for about 5 mins in the end.

PS I hope their feeding patterns are predictable i.e. that they will be back tomorrow as I want to be ready with a camera next time :D
 
Saw the first pipistrelle flying one evening last week after the first sunny day in ages. In fact there's one flying around the hedge at the bottom of the garden now as I type this, but after a sunny day like today it's to be expected. Nice to see them back though, a welcome sign of spring.

Also saw a hedgehog on the back lawn on Sunday night, which got given a helping of IAMS chicken flavour cat food to help it along. :)
 
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I live in an urban area but have ultrasonic bat detectors in the garden (somewhat wild unlike the manicured block paving everyone else seems to favour). Common and Soprano Pips have been around here (in reasonable numbers, they are active over the winter too but only occasiuoanlly) since the beginning of the month but not every night (very windy days they must hunt in a slightly different area). Also get a couple of Noctules most evenings but not noted so far this year. When out and about I've seen Lesser Horseshoes in reasonable numbers for the past few weeks (far more each year).
Best spot near me for Daubentons was drianed but usually plenty about near another local lake. Sitting on the fishing pegs there is great as you get Soprano Pips whizzing around your head whilst you wathch the Daubs skimming just above the water. rarely see another soul so perfect place for social distancing too! Downside by that lake is the loss of the Watervoles I used to see regularly along the three feed brooks before someone built the M56.

Jan, must be great having a maternity roost so close. Watching the young learning to hunt is a wonderful way to spend time on a warm evening.
 
Watched at the same time yesterday and they did appear but only a couple and they were not quartering such a tight spacial area as before.......so not a chance of even trying to photograph them.

Still, it was a joy to see them :)
 
morfis said:
Jan, must be great having a maternity roost so close. Watching the young learning to hunt is a wonderful way to spend time on a warm evening.
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The only downside of it being in my roof is that while my neighbours can see them from their kitchen window, I have to stand outside, and they don't come out at the same time or light level each night. I don't know why they chose my house but I'm happy to have them.
 
Box Brownie said:
Watched at the same time yesterday and they did appear but only a couple and they were not quartering such a tight spacial area as before.......so not a chance of even trying to photograph them.

Still, it was a joy to see them :)
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Bats are strictly protected by law in the UK, so you'd need a licence to photograph them if disturbance to them would result. This time of year bats are trying to feed to regain weight after their winter hibernation, and to mate if they haven't already done so, so they're particularly vulnerable to the effects of disturbance. So it's best just to watch them from a safe distance and not put them off what they're doing.

PS Hedgehog was back for more food on Tuesday night, food left for it again last night but don't know if it was still around. If there's nothing on TV tonight I might get the thermal imager out and watch from the window and see if it's living in the hedgehog box in the corner of the garden. :)
 
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morfis said:
I live in an urban area but have ultrasonic bat detectors in the garden (somewhat wild unlike the manicured block paving everyone else seems to favour). Common and Soprano Pips have been around here (in reasonable numbers, they are active over the winter too but only occasiuoanlly) since the beginning of the month but not every night (very windy days they must hunt in a slightly different area). Also get a couple of Noctules most evenings but not noted so far this year. When out and about I've seen Lesser Horseshoes in reasonable numbers for the past few weeks (far more each year).
Best spot near me for Daubentons was drianed but usually plenty about near another local lake. Sitting on the fishing pegs there is great as you get Soprano Pips whizzing around your head whilst you wathch the Daubs skimming just above the water. rarely see another soul so perfect place for social distancing too! Downside by that lake is the loss of the Watervoles I used to see regularly along the three feed brooks before someone built the M56.

Jan, must be great having a maternity roost so close. Watching the young learning to hunt is a wonderful way to spend time on a warm evening.
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I take it you've heard the lesser horseshoe bats in Wales rather than in Cheshire?
 
morfis said:
I live in an urban area but have ultrasonic bat detectors in the garden (somewhat wild unlike the manicured block paving everyone else seems to favour). Common and Soprano Pips have been around here (in reasonable numbers, they are active over the winter too but only occasiuoanlly) since the beginning of the month but not every night (very windy days they must hunt in a slightly different area). Also get a couple of Noctules most evenings but not noted so far this year. When out and about I've seen Lesser Horseshoes in reasonable numbers for the past few weeks (far more each year).
Best spot near me for Daubentons was drianed but usually plenty about near another local lake. Sitting on the fishing pegs there is great as you get Soprano Pips whizzing around your head whilst you wathch the Daubs skimming just above the water. rarely see another soul so perfect place for social distancing too! Downside by that lake is the loss of the Watervoles I used to see regularly along the three feed brooks before someone built the M56.

Jan, must be great having a maternity roost so close. Watching the young learning to hunt is a wonderful way to spend time on a warm evening.
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Can you tell by the sounds which bats they are? Is it obvious? Are the detectors expensive?

I have bats near me and a few times, have had juveniles (I presume) come into the house through open windows. I've also rescued a few - well, passed them on to our local batman :) One of these had very long ears.... long eared bat!
 
Mr Badger said:
Bats are strictly protected by law in the UK, so you'd need a licence to photograph them if disturbance to them would result. This time of year bats are trying to feed to regain weight after their winter hibernation, and to mate if they haven't already done so, so they're particularly vulnerable to the effects of disturbance. So it's best just to watch them from a safe distance and not put them off what they're doing.

PS Hedgehog was back for more food on Tuesday night, food left for it again last night but don't know if it was still around. If there's nothing on TV tonight I might get the thermal imager out and watch from the window and see if it's living in the hedgehog box in the corner of the garden. :)
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Re: bats ~ for sure I was/am at a safe non disturbance distance................actually I have no idea where their roost or hiberculum is and even if I did know I would never tell anyone nor go near for for fear of such disturbance that you mention.

The ones I have seen this time (in the past I have seen the odd one literally fly over my head whilst in the garden after dark) were flying approx 3 gardens down around the nearby treeline so I do not perceive that being a disturbance to their natural behaviour. I would probably get a get a better from elsewhere near the road??? ;)
 
Bebop said:
Can you tell by the sounds which bats they are? Is it obvious? Are the detectors expensive?

I have bats near me and a few times, have had juveniles (I presume) come into the house through open windows. I've also rescued a few - well, passed them on to our local batman :) One of these had very long ears.... long eared bat!
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I was thinking the same, especially as I surmise seeing them at dusk they will be hunting and using their echo location to 'see' their insect prey............and wonder just what one might hear of that activity in action?
 
I wondered about getting a detector to positively ID species but looking into it, it seems they're not easy to use. The better the detector, the 'easier' it is to use by a non expert, the more the price goes up. So I didn't get one. I asked for help from my local bat group but didn't get any response. It's a voluntary thing, so I didn't hassle. I read somewhere that with common pips you can sometimes hear a high pitched noise before they emerge, and I do. My neighbour's son described it rather well as sounding like two electrical wires arcing together. I'm not sure if it is specific to common pips, though. I think Somerset hosts just about every bat species in the UK. Many years ago I found one dead in the garden but that was before the internet and I had to dispose of the body fairly quickly to stop my cat eating it, so no chance to get a book from the library.
I think if you want a detector just to 'hear' them, that's quite easily done.
 
Bat detectors vary in price from around the £50 mark for a simple heterodyne type detector to £2,000+ for a full-spectrum detector which enables computer analysis of the sound recordings, has built in GPS to plot each recording and many other features. It's a bit like cameras really, from the simple fixed-focus, point-and-shoot to the latest mirrorless multi-focus point monsters.

Identifying UK bats from their calls ranges from the easy to the sometimes impossible, depending on the species and whether or not the calls it's making are typical or not. Bats can change both their call rate and the frequency (pitch) of the call depending on the amount and rate of echo-location information they need. So there can be some overlap in echolocation call characteristics between different bat species, depending on the habitat they're flying in at the time. Some Myotis species bats (such as whiskered, Brandt's, Natterer's and Daubenton's) can be difficult to nigh-on impossible to differentiate between due to call characteristic overlap, even if using top quality full-spectrum or time expansion detectors and call analysis software. There can also be an overlap between common and soprano pipistrelle echolocation calls, so it's not just a case of buying a detector and instantly knowing what that bat is. Then there are 'social calls' made by bats, which are a whole different ball game when it comes to ID!

So think for a bit before buying a detector. If you're still tempted then something like a Magenta Bat4 would get you started for around £59 new, or if you wanted something a bit more sophisticated then the Elekon Batscanner gives good sensitivity, nice sound and automatically scans the frequencies and displays the peak echolocation frequency of the bat it has 'locked on to' on an LED display, which can be helpful in species identification. However, both these are heterodyne type detectors, which don't enable sound recording sonogram analysis (none of them record sound for that reason).

You can buy bat detector adaptors that plug into an iPad (Android version is available too), which enable bat calls to be displayed as sonograms and call recordings to be made. Something like an Echometer Touch costs around £200. A full range of detectors can be found here, but other suppliers are available as they say on the BBC. https://www.nhbs.com/search?q=bat+detectors

Before rushing out to buy one, do stop and think how much you'd actually use it and how soon the novelty might wear off. After all, the economy is apparently in ruins due to Covid-19 restrictions, etc. So no matter how bored you are now, do be careful what you spend!

For those with an Android phone, there's a nice free App available here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.elekon.batlib This provides heterodyne recording examples of different European bats (not just UK ones) and provides a bit of info about each one. You should be able to see what I mean about a lot of the calls sounding very similar, particularly some of the Myotis species ones! Hope you enjoy it if you try it. And yes, lesser horseshoe bat calls do sound a bit like The Clangers on a heterodyne detector!
 
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Mr Badger said:
Bat detectors vary in price from around the £50 mark for a simple heterodyne type detector to £2,000+ for a full-spectrum detector which enables computer analysis of the sound recordings, has built in GPS to plot each recording and many other features. It's a bit like cameras really, from the simple fixed-focus, point-and-shoot to the latest mirrorless multi-focus point monsters.

Identifying UK bats from their calls ranges from the easy to the sometimes impossible, depending on the species and whether or not the calls it's making are typical or not. Bats can change both their call rate and the frequency (pitch) of the call depending on the amount and rate of echo-location information they need. So there can be some overlap in echolocation call characteristics between different bat species, depending on the habitat they're flying in at the time. Some Myotis species bats (such as whiskered, Brandt's, Natterer's and Daubenton's) can be difficult to nigh-on impossible to differentiate between due to call characteristic overlap, even if using top quality full-spectrum or time expansion detectors and call analysis software. There can also be an overlap between common and soprano pipistrelle echolocation calls, so it's not just a case of buying a detector and instantly knowing what that bat is. Then there are 'social calls' made by bats, which are a whole different ball game when it comes to ID!

So think for a bit before buying a detector. If you're still tempted then something like a Magenta Bat4 would get you started for around £59 new, or if you wanted something a bit more sophisticated then the Elekon Batscanner gives good sensitivity, nice sound and automatically scans the frequencies and displays the peak echolocation frequency of the bat it has 'locked on to' on an LED display, which can be helpful in species identification. However, both these are heterodyne type detectors, which don't enable sound recording sonogram analysis (none of them record sound for that reason).

You can buy bat detectors adaptors that plug into an iPad (Android version is available too), which enable bat calls to be displayed as sonograms and call recordings to be made. Something like an Echometer Touch costs around £200. A full range of detectors can be found here, but other suppliers are available as they say on the BBC. https://www.nhbs.com/search?q=bat+detectors

Before rushing out to buy one, do stop and think how much you'd actually use it and how soon the novelty might wear off. After all, the economy is apparently in ruins due to Covid-19 restrictions, etc. So no matter how bored you are now, do be careful what you spend!

For those with an Android phone, there's a nice free App available here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.elekon.batlib This provides recordings of different European bats (not just UK ones) and provides a bit of info about each one. You should be able to see what I mean about a lot of the calls sounding very similar, particularly some of the Myotis species ones! Hope you enjoy it if you try it. And yes, lesser horseshoe bat calls do sound a bit like The Clangers on a heterodyne detector!
Click to expand...

Many thanks for the fullsome information and the insights :)

The library app looks interesting but of course only(?) of best usage value if you have a detector to at least listen in on their calls?
 
Box Brownie said:
Many thanks for the fullsome information and the insights :)

The library app looks interesting but of course only(?) of best usage value if you have a detector to at least listen in on their calls?
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Yes, it's best used with a heterodyne detector as a refence library/ID aid, but it's still interesting to listen to the different bat calls to see what they sound like, plus it is free! Depends how bored you get in lockdown really! :giggle: ;)
 
Mr Badger said:
Yes, it's best used with a heterodyne detector as a refence library/ID aid, but it's still interesting to listen to the different bat calls to see what they sound like, plus it is free! Depends how bored you get in lockdown really! :giggle: ;)
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Ah! lockdown syndrome..........:runaway::runaway::runaway::tumbleweed::tumbleweed::tumbleweed:o_Oo_Oo_O:wave::wave::wave::sorry::sorry::sorry::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::cool::cool::cool::mad::mad::mad::):):):beer::beer::beer::jaffa::jaffa::jaffa::wave::wave::wave: take your pick ;)

Oh, as for reference app on my Android phone, I have a few and at times have used every one as needed and the Merlin Bird ID'er has the calls as well so sounds are useful in the scheme of things :D
 
As Mr Badger says above - don't buy a detector unless you really think you'll use it. Even the very expensive units provide a guide to identification and not an actual identification.
The microphones I use cost £100s each...at the other end of the scale i have been experimenting with a cheap open source device called 'audiomoth'. Not originally conceived to record bats but in theory all UK species can be recorded with one. Doesn't do any ID, it's just a recorder. There is plenty of software about which uses deep learning techniques to attempt to make an ID...again, it's a guide and not a definitive ID. The technique can be used with insect calls, bird-calls and things like radio signals (to identify a specific microphone/transmitter combination) amongst other things. Whilst some species are difficult to differentiate it is possible to identify specific individuals in some cases.
I tend not to get many social calls around the house with the exception of a juvenile out training occasioanlly.
Fascinating topic. I've always looked at things around me but it wasn't until someone from the British Mammal Society got me keeping records in 1982 that I started to get more specifically interested in certain types. Some things are generally quite well documented (birds for example) but bats far less so.

Now isn't the time for it but in the future when things return to normal (whatever that actually is) most bat groups do occasional guided walks where they'll explain how to use a heterodyne detector and demonstrate them before giving loan units for use during the walk. Most groups welcome newcomers but there's a high rate of drop-outs...many people want an 'instant fix' or 'guaranteed hit' and you rarely get that. If trapping then newcomers will have the menial tasks (certainly no less important!) and won't be invited to handle a bat for a very long time. It's also a bit of an odd 'hobby' as people mostly go about recording on their own rather than as a group except on specific projects.
 
Thank you @Mr Badger and @morfis for such detailed replies. That's all really interesting and has convinced me I should leave it to the experts!

I did a bat walk about 20 years ago and remember virtually nothing! I was due to do a workshop to photograph bats in April but that has now been cancelled :rolleyes:

We've had a few casualties here. One we think was hit by a car, one that dropped into a water butt - both of these were rescued and recovered, and one that was clinging low on the wall. I left some water near it and it turned out it was dead! It may have been dead when I left the water there - it was during very hot weather.

I don't worry when they come in the house, I just open the windows and they eventually find their way out, but I have been known to let out an involuntary shriek or two occasionally, especially when one landed on me :LOL:
 
Jannyfox said:
I wondered about getting a detector to positively ID species but looking into it, it seems they're not easy to use. The better the detector, the 'easier' it is to use by a non expert, the more the price goes up. So I didn't get one. I asked for help from my local bat group but didn't get any response. It's a voluntary thing, so I didn't hassle. I read somewhere that with common pips you can sometimes hear a high pitched noise before they emerge, and I do. My neighbour's son described it rather well as sounding like two electrical wires arcing together. I'm not sure if it is specific to common pips, though. I think Somerset hosts just about every bat species in the UK. Many years ago I found one dead in the garden but that was before the internet and I had to dispose of the body fairly quickly to stop my cat eating it, so no chance to get a book from the library.
I think if you want a detector just to 'hear' them, that's quite easily done.
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Thanks Jan. I'll listen out for that 'arcing'. I think I'll leave it having read the other posts here.

We get quite a lot in the garden so it is something that has crossed my mind at times to try and identify them. I think we have several types. I have photographed the casualties or the ones that came inside when I could, just to try and identify them. I think they were pipistrelles and this long eared one - brown presumably.
 
Guys, it's said that covid originated in bats.......does anyone know if our natives can be affected. ?

Oh and great read^^^^^:)

cheers

stu
 
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