Bird Photo Problems

JohnC6

JohnC6

Messages
10,369
Name
John
Edit My Images
Yes
We've just returned from two weeks near Lizard,Cornwall and I took the opportunity to photograph birds but I'm very disappointed in the results and just about all will have to be trashed.This leaves me with the question why ?

What I've considered has been the
(a) The distance to the bird,especially in relation to its size.
(b) The heavy cropping.
(c) The ISO..
(4) Handheld.
(5) Too ambitious for the lens.

It's never recommended to post poor photos but it's the best way to try and get it right next time if it can be got right at all.
All have been taken with the Canon 1D1V.The resolution in camera is 4896 X 3264. To help compare with cropped resolution. As you'll be aware the last two weeks have been great for weather so all taken in excellent light.

1.Wren. For this one I was on the driveway of our cottage looking down into the trees.The lens was resting on a rail. I'm guessing it was 15 metres but gauging distance isn't a strong point with me so it could be a bit more.I can't recall that there was much, if any wind.I say this because most of the time,whilst warm and sunny there was a wind. It certainly wasn't swaying or I wouldn't have taken the shot.

Lens. Canon 100-400mm f5.6 with Canon 1.4X extender. Auto focus retained with 1D1V. 1/1000sec. f9 ISO 640 540mm .Cropped to 823 X 1137. The lens is f5.6 so with the converter f8 I obviously didn't notice the f9. which wasn't necessary.
9ie7x0.jpg


2.Stonechat..Also used 100-400 with 1.4X extender. 540mm 1/2000 sec. ISO 2000 f8.About 15 metres away too.Cropped to 807 X 781 Putting aside the noise the bird itself isn't sharp
13ymfyg.jpg


3.Stonechat again ISO 2000 1/2000 f8 ISO 2000 cropped to 1224 X 1048 540mm
2hmjatv.jpg


4.Rock Pipit
Down on the beach at Lizard watching seals close to shore when this Rock Pipit landed on the kelp. About 20 metres away. I leaned on a rock on the sand so I was well down.
Handheld.. This time I used the ISO on auto to control the shutter speed. 540mm… ISO 2500 1/1000 sec f9 Cropped to 980 X 917 ISO 2500 Lens 100-400 f5.6

I was joined by a chap with a Canon 500 Mark 11 (£8000) a 2X extender on a Canon 7D. I took a shot of a seal with it and the seal filled the lens. After a minute my shoulder ached..lol.
He was getting g photos so a local organisation can ID the seals. He told me that one of the two we were looking at was called 'George'..lol.It was a pup.The other an adult. They ID them according to their facial markings.You can send a photo to the organisation and they tell you the name of the seal.
Here's that lens.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-500mm-f-4-L-IS-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx


21l0b2x.jpg


I thought I'd better finish with a decent one..

5.Jackdaw.. At about 5 metres so compared to the above, much closer and, of course, the bird is larger too. This time I was using my Canon 400mm f5.6 lens, (no IS) and without the 1.4 X extender. Handheld.

ISO 400 1/1250 sec f5.6 Very little cropping to 2741 X 2558
2w1uo14.jpg


Hopefully, it's not settings but that the small birds are just too far away for these two lenses and the photos needed a large crop.

NB...I do find that when I press the shutter the lens moves..it takes 10fps but I generally fire off three or four in bursts. This vibration even occurs when tripod mounted.This is an additional reason why I like a reasonably high shutter speed.

Thanks.
 
My first comment would be that all the images bar the Jackdaw are very noisy

a) and b) would certainly cause this ...... too far away so you have had to take too big a crop

you kit looks OK, (good) for bird photography
 
Last edited:
On the 1st it appears that the focus is on the small 'Y' shaped twig to the bottom right ... maybe you are missing focus or the lens needs a micro-adjust to the camera body?
 
They are very large crops, I think you would have similar results with most cameras when cropping this much (perhaps a D810 may get away with it better). Also, apart from the Jackdaw the pics all seem very dark considering you had good light? were you also under exposing, as this can increase noise.




Edit: If your having some shutter shock even when on tripod, it's a good idea to rest your other hand on top of the lens whilst you take the photo to reduce shock/movement
 
Last edited:
Thank you all for your responses.

Bill. Yes.. it was not only the poor quality of the image of the bird but the high level of noise that has caused me to trash them all. Not a lot I can do then re. points (a) and (b) As you say, nothing lacking in the kit dept. bar getting the 500 f4 which I won't be doing. It's cheaper to get closer..lol

Gramps.. Thinking back you are spot on here. I now recall that the focus was continually being dragged to nearby branches and the lens was hunting. I don't think we ever had a day without some wind but on several days it was obvious..28-30mph so I didn't take photos then because of that. Infact on the two days we went to Lizard Point hoping to see the breeding coughs..one pair that were being guarded 24 hours against egg thieves.. we saw the male..they were nesting in a cave below the cliff top but I was unable to get in a shot as I was being buffeted.

So, re. the wren... I recall ,now you've mentioned it,that the wren didn't seem to move much but the branches behind and to the side of it definitely did and the lens hunted as it tried to lock in on them.I've just thought..I should have gone onto manual focus. We go twice a year to the same accommodation at Poldhu cove and I've thought since that next time I'll go down into the garden area and get much closer ..the owner has seed hangers around and feeds nuts to badgers too that call round at night as do foxes.Great to see them especially the badgers and she also takes photos and is very happy to have guests that want to walk around the grounds photographing.

Simon. re. underexposing..I do recall doing this..I've just checked the exif data and it's showing on some as -1/3 and other at -2/3 I did this to help up the shutter speed without increasing the ISO forgetting that bringing it back in editing would increase noise.

I recall placing my left hand near the end on the lens to help steady it so I was aware of that.

So..in essence, not my technique causing the problems but just being too far away from a very small subject and additionally in a breeze, infact to maker it easier to see the massive crop I've had to do with them, the wren,for example, had the original in my Lightroom4 on the computer screen measuring 12" X 8". I cropped to 2.5" X 2 ".

I really appreciate the suggestions and they've made me recall issues I'd forgotten about so..the comments have definitely re-assured me and I'll stop beating myself up.. as I'm prone to do. Lol. I'll post some Sand Martins soon in the regular forum. Lovely wee birds.I was able to get close to their nesting holes in the sandy cliffs..from the beach. people were sunbathing under them and complained to me that the birds were pooping on them..lol The people had a spot out of the wind which for the two weeks the great weather lasted..until this Friday.. came out of the east or north east but we still got up to 18C.
 
What AF point were you using? I would suggest that for these sort of distance shots, you should have single point selected rather than a zone AF selection,If you have Canon's DPP RAW conversion software installed you can check.

Excessive noise will soften an image, which looks different to missed focus. The Wren is definitely missed focus and I would suggest the others are noise-soft, especially with the cropping.
 
They look like a massive crop to me, it's worth posting an original uncropped shot of the above I would say
 
Firstly, respect to you for posting images as part of the request for input.

Agree with the points of previous posters.

For the Jackdaw; at that distance, zoom and f-stop, your DoF would be wafer thin, and I noticed the focus seemed to be more on the grass bank on the bottom right, and in front of the bird? Still got some good detail on the bird though.
 
Last edited:
Just had a quick look at some of your other shots, could your kit also be front-focusing? The leaves in the foreground in your seagull shot looks sharper than the bird, if this is happening consistently and you are confident you locked AF where you wanted it your kit could be at fault. I still reckon the above shots issues are caused by too much cropping though which is obviously a separate problem.

image.png
 
were all the shots taken with the 1.4x extender on.. could it be that thats also not helping the issue. i know when i had my 70-200 L with the extender the quality of the shots was considerably poorer. its a double edged sword of course as without the extender then the crops are even more drastic.
the fact that the cleanest sharpest image of the bunch is the Jackdaw which was taken without the extender also seems to point towards that being the problem.
maybe its having an adverse affect on focusing as well as image quality
 
Last edited:
you can see the jackdaw stands out with crispness and sharp eye and feather detail
with your equipment you cant do better so the others are due to the vagaries of trying to get speed...manual focus??
if not its a good bet to use it... a monopod could help if you find mobility with a tripod difficult
or a bean bag on a rock/wall
cheers
geof
 
Many thanks for these further contributions. First chance to have a decent amount of time for a few days.

I'm going to screen grab this page and print it off and go through all the issues/advice .I'm determined to get this right. Spending £8000 on a 500f4 isn't an option and looking at all the other top shots on here not necessary either. I'm certain that the major issue is distance,especially with small birds ,leading to heavy cropping. I didm;t know that heavy cropping softened an image as well as introduce a lot of noise.Taking shots in portrait mode cuts down the cropping required that would be necessary in Landscape mode so when I can I'll think about using that mode.

Mark..As you say it was the centre focus point,I lose the rest with an extender,which I used for the wren shot, along with a stop but keep auto which is one of the two reasons I bought the camera as I struggle with manual,never as sharp as auto. The other reason was the 10fps. The cropping problem is a real problem which I know introduces noise . The wren photo was reduced from 12"X 8" to 2.5" X 2". As stated by Chris... massive.

John The shot was taken at f5.6.I'm not sure if that would give detail on the grass in front of the jackdaw,probably not but I would have had the focusing square on the bird,I'm sure. I take your point that f5.6 probably wasn't enough and will be mindful of that in future. I don't know about the DPP RAW conversion software..I'll look into that. I do shoot in RAW all the time though.

Chris I always get..or at least try to get..the red focusing square on the eye.It definitely wouldn't be on the kelp and I taking a look at it now it certainly is sharp. It was taken at f7. I need to look at my LR4 Export page to see if I'm including the exif data.I don't lock the focus with the * button. I'll look up 'front focusing' too. I don't know about that. I've attached a GF photo and there doesn't appear to be problem with the is.

Dean The wren was with the 1.4X. The jackdaw wasn't but the gull was.It shouldn't make a difference on this equipment..it's a Canon 1.4X on a Canon lens and I've never read of the 1.4X causing a problem the earlier 2 X did and wasn't recommended except in dire need but I read that the 2 X Mark 11 is very good.

Geoff I took the jackdaw as I was walking down to the beach to photograph the Sand Martins so it was hand held. 1/1250 sec @ f5.6. The tripod is no bother really,I do have a bean bag and tend to use that on bridges for steam locos.

I did post this gold finch recently straight after another GF and because of that it kind of got overlooked but it shows that in the right place..ie. very close..5 metres (it was on the tree in the neighbour's garden.) the equipment functions very well so probably not front focusing.

1/800 sec f6.3 400mm with 400mm f5.6 canon lens. On tripod with cable release.

2epoy9i.jpg
 
You could try a focusing test, I had a fault on my first DSLR which turned out to be front focusing.
I set it up on a tripod, locked the AF dot on a well contrasted target and the image was consistently sharper very slightly in the foreground. Could be the lens or camera if this is the case for you. If it is, try having a play with micro adjustment if you have it on your camera body.
 
Not to mention that the light is much better in the Goldfinch shot than any of the others...:)
 
goldfinch good!!

have you tried cropping as a way to balance subject against border size
the goldie would suit a near square format
 
I'm guessing this is a new lens and/or camera for you?

1 - You're too far away. When taking photos ideally you want to fill the frame with your subject instead of having in your head 'oh, I can crop this'. Cropping introduces loads of noise.

2 - High ISO. Is it necessary? The camera might be able to handle the noise well at that ISO but lowest is always best of course.

3 - Aperture is too narrow. Open it up as much as you can with or without the extender.

4 - Are you focusing on the birds eye? Use spot-focus and focus on the bird's eye. It can be dark and require you to sort under-exposure but if you focus on the corner of their eyelids this can help you keep it brighter. Or use exposure compensation.

5 - Do you have IS on? Make sure you do and make sure it's on the correct IS setting i.e. 1 or 2.

6 - Try and not use the extender unless you really need to or until you get used to the lens. I was shooting a Canon 6D with 100-400 IS and never used an extender. In this image you can see all my settings. The ISO was 1000 due to it being overcast and fairly dark and the picture was taken at an RSPB centre. Also this photo was cropped a little too. https://www.flickr.com/photos/70926056@N08/13779719833/

6 - You should try and bait the birds instead of chasing them. Set up a couple of large branches beside each other and put a feeder in the middle but not that close to the branches. Birds won't sit on a feeder. They'll sit on a branch nearby until they see it's clear to eat. Then they'll go take a bite and go back to their spot. These branches will be out of view of the feeder so shouldn't be in any of your pictures. It'll give you enough practice to sort out the longer images in your camera later. You could try heading to a RSPB center with a camera hut too. Also birds won't come unless you're hidden. Get a lens coat for that big white lens and cover yourself too.

Hope this helps :) all the best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top