BPOTY

markyboy.1967

markyboy.1967

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Name
Mark Molloy
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The shortlist images are up for this years Bird Photographer of the Year. I managed to get 1 image in so happy about that. What's people's thoughts on this competition? To me it seems like it has a way to go but is on the right tracks. A good split of catagories which given time could have some so a high quality of images but it needs a few years I think for us to see the best of this competition. What's your thoughts?


http://birdpoty16.picturk.com/pages/shortlist
 
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Congrats on being shortlisted ... great to see some common small birds in there :)
 
gramps said:
Congrats on being shortlisted ... great to see some common small birds in there :)
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One of the points i was thinking was that and they werent making rare birds top of the lists like many other comps. Just needs more people entering to get a higher quality though.
 
Great picture and some stiff competition there too.
 
It is great image, lovely setting and BG with the bird being the only(?) colour in a monochrome scene.

But as noted a strong field of contributors.

Best of luck :)
 
markyboy.1967 said:
Yeah i have no chance of it going further as there are some good images there. The post was more about the competition itself including its rules and set up.
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Got as much chance as everyone else on the shortlist. :)
 
Gramps i would say that image is beaten by just over half in that catagory. I entered a few others in the comp in the same section which were stronger and fitted the catagory better but they never got through. Its a new competition which gas a massive scope to improve and progress. My worry/thoughts are that some of the bigger players will enter in coming years- will this be a good thing to raise standards or will it put guys like me off?
 
markyboy.1967 said:
Gramps i would say that image is beaten by just over half in that catagory. I entered a few others in the comp in the same section which were stronger and fitted the catagory better but they never got through.
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Which sort of proves my point ... it's down to someone's opinion and with that anything can happen. :)
 
Mark,i've never entered a comp: not really feeling I'm ready yet. so as one that doesn't know much but occassionaly has a dig to see inspiring images,then I like their selection , Do some comps really focus on the rare maybe esoteric:eek:? Yee gads that's a bit sad,surely beauty/amazing/etc...... caught in the "more usual" is as worthy? I'm sort of shocked really Mark by your statement. Subjects are important but surely it's the tog that is being measured not the perceived status of a subject.

Entry is quite steep I guess especially for those whom don't have a large portfollio,i'd imagine that would exclude some newer guys,maybe that is deliberate, I don't know?
Does it look like this has a future from a guy learning all this,don't know mate......... looks good to me,some cool prizes up for grabs,well presented,conservation will benefit,what's not to like?
Mark for me there are some astounding images already being entered, so now I guess my expectations as a guy getting his head around things comes into play. Plausiby my expectations would be less than what a more learned guy would go for,but to me they are already attracting some storming shots..I don't know how many enter and obviously know you know more but I sort of disagree as the image quailty seems already high to me so might I suggest logically that they are getting enough entries to give that level of IQ. Much personal opinion based on experience here mate,tricky to qualify,tried to be as honest as poss for ya.



Oh kiddo well done forgot that:oops: :$ ha told ya it was a lovely image like i know,...... but it is:D I recognised it instantly:p. I agree with roger you have as good a chance as any,it's just someones opinion bro don't matter how much of an expert that guy is ,it is still just an opinion you all have a chance

.
Like that backlit grebe Mark and the goldeneye WOW,for me you have some stiff comp but I'll bang a best 'o'luck at ya.

Mark first up cheers for posting,back to first line..... seen some damn fine work and feel inspired:cool: Second, I don't think you posted to tell us you were shortlisted,I feel that has been missed a bit here in the replies,maybe I'm wrong ,I'm a basket case after grafting,but I feel from your words you wanted to know what we all thought of this comp not grats,don't think grats were really what you were after here? I guess it's a bit like asking for someone to crit an image nice shot is lovely,but if someone takes some time to GIVE you their thoughts one might learn a bit

cheers mucker,ha you also made me stare at Bence's hides a good bit, as a guy that makes stuff.................. god that has me thinking;)

Stu
 
Congratulations. I thought about entering but didn't organise in time.

It's already got a lot of well known names entered in their second year, so I suspect it'll grow well. I have to say their entry-fee scheme gets expensive quickly if you want to enter multiple categories. I'd also be nice to know just how much goes to the BTO.
 
Stuart, thanks for the lengthy reply. If you look at most bational and international comps you will see very little common bird types. Try searching the last time a blue tit won a national comp even though its one one the most photographed and a bird which can be manipulated to cone to areas with nice backgrounds etc. Many pros dont bother with these types of birds but many togs still do so surely there must be many entries of this bird.

This is a new conp which has massive scope to progress and feel its on the right tracks at the monent however i still worry that it will go the way of many other before it and become only for elitest togs to enter. Looking at last years book they produce, i see loads of images from guys like ourselves and to be honest many many images which technically just havent got it however its refreshing to see these images amongst those of the pros. Lets just hope we can see this continue over the coming years.
 
Your are handing over the rights to the competition organiser which is why I don't go if for this type of competition

11. Copyright and permissions
All imagery MUST be the total and exclusive work of the submitting photographer and may not include any element that is the copyright of another. The Copyright for each image entered will remain with its respective photographer. By entering the Competition and submitting your photograph(s), you hereby grant the Promoter, its sponsors and their hosting partner Picturk a non-exclusive, irrevocable license to use your photograph(s) for any purpose connected with the Competition, including (but not limited to), promoting the Competition within printed and online media, the inclusion within printed and digital versions of the Competition book, the inclusion within printed and digital versions of the Competition calendar and other merchandise, display at exhibitions, use in press, promotional and marketing materials, social media networks and for the promotion of any future photographic competition in both print and online media. All images will be credited to the photographer where used. A tick box is provided at the point of image entry that when ticked permits the BTO to use your images within their own image library for the purposes of editorial and promotional content. The supply of your images is optional and no payment will be made for their use.


Not only that but they have the cheek to charge for your entry

7. Entrance Fees
An Entrance Fee is required to enter the competition. The competition entry fee is based on the number of competition categories you choose to enter. Each category carries a fixed entry fee that allows anything from 1 to 6 images to be submitted; charges are defined below. This means that you can enter anything from a single image into one category for £10 to 42 images for £58 into all seven main categories (with a maximum of 6 images per category).

£10 One image (single category)
£18 One category (up to 6 images)
£26 Any two categories (up to 12 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£34 Any three categories (up to 18 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£40 Any four categories (up to 24 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£46 Any five categories (up to 30 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£52 Any six categories (up to 36 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£58 Any seven categories (up to 42 images, with no more than 6 images per category


They want it both ways Your money and Copyright. Nice business to be in to make money, selling other peoples photos without having to pay the author
 
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realspeed said:
Your are handing over the rights to the competition organiser which is why I don't go if for this type of competition

11. Copyright and permissions
All imagery MUST be the total and exclusive work of the submitting photographer and may not include any element that is the copyright of another. The Copyright for each image entered will remain with its respective photographer. By entering the Competition and submitting your photograph(s), you hereby grant the Promoter, its sponsors and their hosting partner Picturk a non-exclusive, irrevocable license to use your photograph(s) for any purpose connected with the Competition, including (but not limited to), promoting the Competition within printed and online media, the inclusion within printed and digital versions of the Competition book, the inclusion within printed and digital versions of the Competition calendar and other merchandise, display at exhibitions, use in press, promotional and marketing materials, social media networks and for the promotion of any future photographic competition in both print and online media. All images will be credited to the photographer where used. A tick box is provided at the point of image entry that when ticked permits the BTO to use your images within their own image library for the purposes of editorial and promotional content. The supply of your images is optional and no payment will be made for their use.


Not only that but they have the cheek to charge for your entry

7. Entrance Fees
An Entrance Fee is required to enter the competition. The competition entry fee is based on the number of competition categories you choose to enter. Each category carries a fixed entry fee that allows anything from 1 to 6 images to be submitted; charges are defined below. This means that you can enter anything from a single image into one category for £10 to 42 images for £58 into all seven main categories (with a maximum of 6 images per category).

£10 One image (single category)
£18 One category (up to 6 images)
£26 Any two categories (up to 12 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£34 Any three categories (up to 18 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£40 Any four categories (up to 24 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£46 Any five categories (up to 30 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£52 Any six categories (up to 36 images, with no more than 6 images per category)
£58 Any seven categories (up to 42 images, with no more than 6 images per category


They want it both ways Your money and Copyright. Nice business to be in to make money, selling other peoples photos without having to pay the author
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It's a very limited scope...
for any purpose connected with the Competition
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and a lot of competitions require an entrance fee to take part, including some major international ones.
 
markyboy.1967 said:
The small print is very standard for any decent comp these days. It. Basically allows them to use the image in connection to the competition and not just anyone who wants to buy for advertising etc. Its something i thought about years ago but have since come to terms with it.
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I was about to defend the T&C's as being pretty standard for competitions these days but in fact it looks like they reserve the right to use your images much more widely than some others. It does look like they aim to make income from the entries

realspeed said:
for any purpose connected with the Competition, including (but not limited to), promoting the Competition within printed and online media, the inclusion within printed and digital versions of the Competition book, the inclusion within printed and digital versions of the Competition calendar and other merchandise, display at exhibitions, use in press, promotional and marketing materials, social media networks and for the promotion of any future photographic competition in both print and online media.[/QUOTE]

I'd say the "calendar and other merchanise" is a step too far, and I'm not sure about all those online and social media uses either.

I would have entered the competition myself but I wanted to enter some panoramic format images and their upload system specifies a short edge minimum of 1500 pixels IIRC. In view of those T&C's I'm glad I didn't!
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Jerry as i mentioned all those areas are in relation to the actual competition being entered. They produce a book from the entries which i bought and will do again. So far no calanders etc but as the comp progresses then why not, im sure a percentage will go to the chosen charity and the rest in running the comp including overheads etc etc.
 
markyboy.1967 said:
Jerry as i mentioned all those areas are in relation to the actual competition being entered. They produce a book from the entries which i bought and will do again. So far no calanders etc but as the comp progresses then why not, im sure a percentage will go to the chosen charity and the rest in running the comp including overheads etc etc.
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From the 2016 BWPA competition........

  1. Images used on merchandise commissioned by the organisers will be discussed individually with the photographer concerned and a separate agreement made.
This seems more reasonable. It's a tricky decision, I know, and some well-known names are represented on that shortlist, but I wonder if they have studied the T&C's in detail?
 
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By entering the competition not only will you be celebrating the art of bird photography but you will also be doing your bit for bird conservation. One of the primary aims of the Bird Photographer of the Year is to help support the British Trust for Ornithology and the outstanding work that they do in the field of bird conservation. As direct partners in the competition, they will receive a percentage of the entry fees and competition profits. The money raised will go directly towards the valuable research they undertake. For more information click here to visit the BTO website.

Notice how they avoid saying how much percentage , it could be anything from 1 to 99 percent. Why deliberately avoid saying? My guess is because it is very little. They also don't mention admin costs ,but that is another contention of mine with all charities
 
I definitely agree the competitions sit in an uneasy position for me. For the WPOTY it's not an issue as the NHM is an organisation that I'm happy to support, but the commercial ones such as BWPA and BPOTY really should be fairer to all the photographers' who works end up in the various books.

Hopefully BPOTY will be more open about the amount that goes to the BTO once it's established and they have an idea about the number of entries. It does appear that it's a genuine co-venture so one would hope they're getting a fair share in return for the goodwill of their name.
 
jerry12953 said:
It's a grey-headed woodpecker isn't it?
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Yip the grey headed. Technically its fine and better than many in that section however its still just a bird on a stick. It lacks the little something special which 1 or 2 others have.
 
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markyboy.1967 said:
Yip the grey headed. Technically its fine and better than many in that section however its still just a bird on a stick. It lacks the little something special which 1 or 2 others have.
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Having had a quick look at some of the categories it seemed as if the overall standard of the short list wasn't that high. But I've no doubt there were soime absolute gems there and hopefully they will come through to later stages. I noticed some big names in the short-list!

The W said:
I definitely agree the competitions sit in an uneasy position for me. For the WPOTY it's not an issue as the NHM is an organisation that I'm happy to support, but the commercial ones such as BWPA and BPOTY really should be fairer to all the photographers' who works end up in the various books.

Hopefully BPOTY will be more open about the amount that goes to the BTO once it's established and they have an idea about the number of entries. It does appear that it's a genuine co-venture so one would hope they're getting a fair share in return for the goodwill of their name.
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There has to be an element of jumping on the bandwagon here. There's LPOTY, BWPA, GPOTY, APOTY , OPOTY already and probably some more that I don't know about. Charlie Waite has a lot to answer for!

I've entered BWPA a couple of times and my only grouse with it was how difficult it was to get one's free copy of the book if one can't get to the prizewinning ceremony! It does look to me as if BPOTY oversteps the mark when it comes to commercialism. The BTO seems to have become a lot more commercial-minded in the last few years, but one would still like to support them. But maybe they've thrown their lot in with an organisation who have their own interests at heart rather than the charity or the photographers.
 
I believe the BTO and Nature Photographers Ltd had a pre-existing relationship, possibly managing the BTO's collection of images for them.
 
Congratulations on being shortlisted!! Its actually nice to see a competition with some common birds, not having to go to Africa or something bazaar! As to the comments about commercialism etc, that is up to the entrants to determine if they are happy. We can all create excuse why we did not enter, you did,you got shortlisted....well done & good luck. My only comment is that it seems to be along time between teh short listing and announcement of winners!

Let usknow how you get on.
 
The W said:
Congratulations. I thought about entering but didn't organise in time.

It's already got a lot of well known names entered in their second year, so I suspect it'll grow well. I have to say their entry-fee scheme gets expensive quickly if you want to enter multiple categories. I'd also be nice to know just how much goes to the BTO.
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Not sure of the actual percentage but tge mail i have says they have raised in excess of £5500 for the BTO
 
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