Buttermere

rob-nikon

rob-nikon

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Rob
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I recently visited Buttermere in the early afternoon. The weather was overcast and it was constantly trying to rain. I had enough time to capture this before a hail storm stopped play.

This was taken using a 10 stop hitech firecrest ND filter stacked with a Lee 3 stop ND Pro filter to give a minute of exposure. It amazed me that every lake I visited someone had created these rock 'lead in lines'!

Please let me know what you think and how the processing could be improved.

Buttermere by Rob'81, on Flickr
 
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Good composition but the dfull light do little for me. Technically it is fine and a good long exp. But you could get here still reflections, soft golden light and a much more attractive scene, so why take this other than to show you can set up a camera to take a 60sec exposure.
 
ST4 said:
Good composition but the dfull light do little for me. Technically it is fine and a good long exp. But you could get here still reflections, soft golden light and a much more attractive scene, so why take this other than to show you can set up a camera to take a 60sec exposure.
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I can fully understand landscapes are all about wonderful light which this image doesn't have. The weather wasn't great, very windy, cloudy and heavy showers. Landscapes and long exposures are something I've only just started trying so I can at least take composition and exposure as positives. Would a Black and White conversion been a better choice of processing?

The problem I have is it's going to be hard to capture great light on what is really a holiday with the wife, I think landscapes will be put on the back burner and I will fully concentrate on the wildlife (part of which was the main photographic priority and something my wife likes too).
 
rob-nikon said:
Would a Black and White conversion been a better choice of processing?
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Black and white processing is NOT a way to turn bland images into something better. NEVER. Black and white is done when it is called for by the image, ie. to accentuate texture, shapes, etc.
 
I wouldn't be so harsh. The trouble with Buttermere, like many other Lake District locations, is that they are done to death by all and sundry, and critically, by the few who can wait for the light and weather conditions to produce a stunner. Compositionally this is fine, ok the weather was cr@p but that's no reason not to take the shot. How can you improve it is more difficult. Lightening the shadows a touch may help to take out some of the heaviness but that is all. I am not sure a B&W conversion would help but it's always worth a try, what can you lose? In which case I would add contrast to the sky to dramatise the dullness of the light.
 
ST4 said:
Personally, I wouldn't get the camera out in conditions like this, I would plan around a forecast and see it, and photograph it at its best.
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On a day like this you can just drive up to Kirkstone pass and have some fun. It's a great road.
 
daugirdas said:
On a day like this you can just drive up to Kirkstone pass and have some fun. It's a great road.
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The whole run down from Pooley bridge to Glenriding is a good laugh unless you meet a bus coming and it's a bit over.

I've gone flying up the kirkstone but for a real challenge try the Hardnott and Wynrose passes
 
ST4 said:
Personally, I wouldn't get the camera out in conditions like this, I would plan around a forecast and see it, and photograph it at its best.
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I can understand your reason not to take this shot. I'm new to landscapes so some of it is practice to get aspects like composition, sharpness and exposure right for when I do get lucky with great light. This has got me thinking that I can't spend enough time on landscapes in the Lake District or other places to be able get the interesting light to due the logistics and time pressures when on holiday. With wildlife I do visit the same location for several weeks at the right time of year and only go when the forecast is favourable. It's not unusual during deer rutting for me to visit one location 10-20 times over a 3-4 week period to capture the peak action in interesting light. The problem is I can't spend a similar amount of time on landscapes due to the traveling involved and working full time. Sounds like most of the lake district is not for me. It may be best for me to only to try Wast Water when the light is interesting. Wast Water is 10 minutes drive away from the B&B I stay at for Red Squirrels, which is the main reason for visiting the Lake District any way.

The only reason I've posted this image was because I asked for location ideas in the talk landscape section here. Thank you to all who have commented, it has helped.
 
ST4 said:
The whole run down from Pooley bridge to Glenriding is a good laugh unless you meet a bus coming and it's a bit over.

I've gone flying up the kirkstone but for a real challenge try the Hardnott and Wynrose passes
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The wife won't let me ever go back along Hardknott pass after last years trip where we met a breakdown car parked at an awkward angle, and had to pass using the gravel edge to the side of the road.
 
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ST4 said:
Personally, I wouldn't get the camera out in conditions like this, I would plan around a forecast and see it, and photograph it at its best.
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Steve

It's all well and good you saying you wouldn't get your camera out for this but the OP wasn't asking you that.

He was asking for advice on how the shot could be improved. Sometimes we have to work with what the weather gives us, disappointing as that may be.

With your experience and knowledge perhaps some advice on composition and processing would help the OP?
 
It might not the best conditions weather wise, but it is well composed using the rocks as a lead. It could do with a bit more sky to get a 2/3rds split on the horizon but that's by the by. I think, given the conditions, you've got as good as you could get.
 
Its a good effort but as others before me have said the light is spoiling the image. Its well composed with a good lead in with the rocks and the sky has potential. I feel it could be a candidate for a mono conversion, give it plenty of contrast and the sky might just pop. Unfortuanetely it will do nothing for the flat tones on the mountains but it has to be worth a go.

I love the hardnott pass travel nearly 200 mile round trip at least onece a year just to do it and stand on at the roman fort and imagine what it must have felt like to be a roman soldier in deepest darkest cumbria. No matter how many times I drive it it never fails to amaze me.
 
Buck said:
Steve

It's all well and good you saying you wouldn't get your camera out for this but the OP wasn't asking you that.

He was asking for advice on how the shot could be improved. Sometimes we have to work with what the weather gives us, disappointing as that may be.

With your experience and knowledge perhaps some advice on composition and processing would help the OP?
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IMHO my knowledge and experience isn't majoring on working with what the weather gives us but rather put myself in a position where the weather and lighting conditions are favourable.

Tools like yr.no the met office and tide tables plus the TPE is what I'd use to work out when I should be there.

The composition, subject matter and technical stuff is fine, as I said previously, but the best CC is to go back when the suns low and either side or front lighting this view on a still day so the waters still and reflecting the view.

Pp is always thus, rubbish in, rubbish out. The OP has proven they can use a camera. So what, it's when and where it's used in landscape photography that matters.

It's all about getting the when and where right. IMHO. Get that right, you're laughing. Get it wrong no amount of gear or PP will get you an image you'll want to hang on your wall
 
Rob

Think it could do with being lightend, feels a bit heavy. But with the Lakes you just have to deal with the hand that you have been dealt. As has been mentioned B&W may well not improve it, but you have nothing to lose so give it a go. Also wonder what a square crop would look like starting from the left-hand side to remove the heavy right-hand side. As mentioned some of the apps will help in general, but there are so many micro-climates in the valleys that local knowledge is king in those areas.
 
ST4 said:
Personally, I wouldn't get the camera out in conditions like this, I would plan around a forecast and see it, and photograph it at its best.
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But maybe you have a greater opportunity than someone in the area on holiday with the family ... often 'ideal' conditions simply don't exist and that is no reason not to enjoy your hobby of photography :)
 
gramps said:
But maybe you have a greater opportunity than someone in the area on holiday with the family ... often 'ideal' conditions simply don't exist and that is no reason not to enjoy your hobby of photography :)
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Which is why I'd see the sights and leave the camera in the car. If I can't produce a decent image due to the conditions , and landscape photography is all about the conditions then I wouldn't enjoy taking the images.
Gary Coyle said:
Christs sake, a photographer takes the time and effort to go to the lake district on an overcast day and you seriously expect him not to photograph what he sees, get real.
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Yes. It's a C&c board too. Presenting images where the conditions have severely hampered the chances of what I think is a good images will attract this sort of comment.
 
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Gary Coyle said:
Christs sake, a photographer takes the time and effort to go to the lake district on an overcast day and you seriously expect him not to photograph what he sees, get real.
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I think Gary has pretty much nailed it here. You have to work with what you are given, you don't get magical light overtime you go out, sometimes you get no light. Such is the life of a landscape photographer!

As for the image, I like it, i like the lead in of the rocks from the bottom left taking you out into the scene, I also like the movement in the sky from using the 10 stop filter. Just keep on going out, taking images and you will get the light eventually!
 
ST4 said:
Personally, I wouldn't get the camera out in conditions like this, I would plan around a forecast and see it, and photograph it at its best.
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Wouldn't it be lovely if every had all the time in the world on their hands.

I think the PO has done an admirable job with the conditions at hand.
 
ST4 said:
Which is why I'd see the sights and leave the camera in the car. If I can't produce a decent image due to the conditions , and landscape photography is all about the conditions then I wouldn't enjoy taking the images.


Yes. It's a C&c board too. Presenting images where the conditions have severely hampered the chances of what I think is a good images will attract this sort of comment.
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How on earth have the conditions hampered it, this is a bloody fine image, not everyone lives within a National Park and some of us have to travel many miles to reach our goal, Rob would have completely wasted his time if he "wouldn't have bothered getting his camera out"

Stick to what the OP asked and cut out the veiled superiority complex.
 
stumeech said:
To be fair Gary, Steve (in his first post) did do exactly that - the OP asked 'What do you think' and Steve said.
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But as polite as Rob has been im pretty sure he didn't expect to be told he shouldn't have bothered and why Steve felt the need to end his first reply with a smarmy "so why take this other than to show you can set up a camera to take a 60sec exposure."

Maybe that was exactly Robs intention, after all he has said Landscapes arent his thing and its new to him
 
Gary Coyle said:
But as polite as Rob has been im pretty sure he didn't expect to be told he shouldn't have bothered and why Steve felt the need to end his first reply with a smarmy "so why take this other than to show you can set up a camera to take a 60sec exposure."

Maybe that was exactly Robs intention, after all he has said Landscapes arent his thing and its new to him
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That's the problem with the internet, something can be read and meant in two totally different ways.
 
Wow this has really restarted! Thanks for your support Gary, Anthony and Ruth, I did ask for thoughts on it and although it was probably a bit more blunt than expected I did get them. I fully understand the sentiments on this image, it's taken in bland, rubbish light. The only positive was it was technically ok with ok composition. I have taken this on board and decide only to do landscapes locally (when at home and on holiday) where I can visit a location more often and play the numbers game to hopefully get good light. Landscapes are not something I do often so I've decided they won't take priority over wildlife for me.

An example of using this advice was I just visited skomer and stayed 2 nights. This trip was planned to take advantage of sunrise/sunset, something you can't do on day trip. It gave me a chance to try 2 sunrises and 2 sunsets. The numbers game thankfully worked out although I only got good light on one sunset but that's all you really need (the forecast on both sunrises was so poor I didn't even bother waking up!). I know it's not a landscape but the image below does show I learnt something from the advice posted here in reply to this landscape thread so I haven't taken it the wrong way :)

Backlit Puffin Calling by Rob Cain, on Flickr
 
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There was a stage a few years ago that I went through where I got disheartened with the camera if I went out in the middle of the day or in overcast conditions because we as amateur photographers are told to shoot in the golden hours and to avoid harsh light etc. But now, as time goes on and my skill increases, I got out with enthusiasm in most conditions and I can pretty much get a few photos that are pleasing to me.
I think you made the best of the conditions and came away with a good photo.
 
Gary Coyle said:
How on earth have the conditions hampered it, this is a bloody fine image, not everyone lives within a National Park and some of us have to travel many miles to reach our goal, Rob would have completely wasted his time if he "wouldn't have bothered getting his camera out"

Stick to what the OP asked and cut out the veiled superiority complex.
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You may think it's bloody fine, I've suggested shooting it in more interesting conditions which IMHO will yield a bloody fine image.

It's not a waste of time to spend time in a lovely tranquil area even if the camera never leaves the boot of the car. I'm sorry that's how you feel. If the sole intention of going is to take pictures scoping locations can be good.

Hurling abuse from the safety of your keyboard over helpful tips to improve your landscape photography is hardly helpful of constructive and not in the ethos of the board.

As you were.
 
ST4 said:
You may think it's bloody fine, I've suggested shooting it in more interesting conditions which IMHO will yield a bloody fine image.

It's not a waste of time to spend time in a lovely tranquil area even if the camera never leaves the boot of the car. I'm sorry that's how you feel. If the sole intention of going is to take pictures scoping locations can be good.

Hurling abuse from the safety of your keyboard over helpful tips to improve your landscape photography is hardly helpful of constructive and not in the ethos of the board.

As you were.
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Oh dear, Ive hardly hurled abuse at you now have i, for someone who likes to shoot people in the face you're a rather sensitive soul aren't you. :)
 
Gary Coyle said:
Oh dear, Ive hardly hurled abuse at you now have i, for someone who likes to shoot people in the face you're a rather sensitive soul aren't you. :)
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And you sir are trolling.

I've probably given the most helpful c&c on this thread and you've tried to derail it with high handed attacks. How exactly am I meant to respond?
 
viv1969 said:
Wouldn't it be lovely if every had all the time in the world on their hands.

I think the PO has done an admirable job with the conditions at hand.
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I wish I had all the time in the world but it's best planning, researching forecasts, angles of the sun to make the most of ones time if you're serious about creating images of beauty and soul.

The OP put up an image for c&c. I gave it. What's the issue?
 
ST4 said:
I wish I had all the time in the world but it's best planning, researching forecasts, angles of the sun to make the most of ones time if you're serious about creating images of beauty and soul.

The OP put up an image for c&c. I gave it. What's the issue?
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Lets agree to disagree shall we?
 
ST4 said:
And you sir are trolling.

I've probably given the most helpful c&c on this thread and you've tried to derail it with high handed attacks. How exactly am I meant to respond?
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Trolling, says the man banned for trolling in the past, oh dear.

Youre not expected to respond by accusing me of being abusive when ive not been and then go to accusing me of attacking you, tut, tut.
 
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