1. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

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    Less of a compromise and more of a clever solution (y)

    Dave
     
  2. SFTPhotography

    SFTPhotography Top Cat

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    The elitists won’t like that one :)

    I agree wholeheartedly though :)
     
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  3. Mark twiglet

    Mark twiglet

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    Cos your not?
     
  4. SFTPhotography

    SFTPhotography Top Cat

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    No - I shoot regularly at tripod holes. I've not got a lot of qualms shooting where a tripod has been before.The conditions maketh the scene. Originality doesn't rate highly in my list of priorities.
     
  5. TheBigYin

    TheBigYin Staff Member

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    Vestrahorn, Stokksnes, Iceland. linky
     
  6. Nguss

    Nguss

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    This has been an interesting discussion! I like the idea about a panel and would not be too fussed about whether uk based or otherwise. The thing that put me off considering entering one of the previous competitions was that I don't think there was a rule against compositing and, and I apologise if i am wrong, but the first winner from St Monans a great image but, from recollection, was also a composite, which added some waves from a different exposure. I don't think this was an issue to most people but I wondered if there would be any stipulations on composites which would be more of an issue to me personally than where the images come from.
     
  7. newbie1

    newbie1

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    Interesting point, composites are quite common for Milky Way images combining a slightly less dark landscape with the star scape when it’s really dark.
     
  8. Marc

    Marc Mucky Rims Staff Member

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    Just to clear it up, this was Dave's response when it was questioned last year

     
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  9. Ian W

    Ian W

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    An absolutely spot on assessment imo. As long as liberties aren't taken by importing something that wasn't there, a 'composite' is all good as far as I'm concerned.
     
  10. Nguss

    Nguss

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    Yes and it certainly was not against the rules of the competition at all either so there can't be any complaints about it.

    It was and still is a great image, as is pretty much anything I have seen from him on this forum or his website. It is just that I personally am a little uneasy about composites where things are added in that are not there when the exposure was taken compared to exposure blending to balance light / dark, in landscape photographs but that is yet another can of worms as in theory you can then end up getting on along exposures, which I really like when done well and do not have any issue with even though they are not a 'straight' representation of the scene either, but anyway I think I have far enough off topic now. So to get back to the interim competition I think it would be very refreshing to see a panel based approach.
     
  11. holty

    holty

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    and sftphotograpy reflections of a hill up rannoch moor area
     
  12. ABTog

    ABTog

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    I think the question of whether you ban composites is a tricky one because the lines get blurred in what you consider a composite.
    I my mind a composite would be taking something (sky, mountain, tree, etc) from one image from one location and putting it into another image, from another. IE putting in something that obviously wasn't there.
    Blending of two exposures, like one of the foreground and one of the sky (ie a milkyway shot) wouldn't be a "composite" as both shots were taken at the same location at the same time.
    You can also use blending to combine exposures for focus stacking. I did this for a recent shot on a beach where I wanted to have the close foreground in focus and the middle distance, which would have been tricky to get sharp without focus-stacking. (Thomas Heaton did a good video on it).

    So for me a blended exposure shot would be fine, but a composite (adding in things from another location) wouldn't be.
     
  13. MrDrizz

    MrDrizz

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    It's a shame because no matter what is decided there will be those that will moan. All I'd say is if you're not happy then don't enter.

    Tend to agree, what about a focus stacked image, is that a composite or a blend?
     
  14. ABTog

    ABTog

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    Focus stacking would not be a composite because botb exposures were taken in the same place at the same time just with the focus shifted. You're not adding an element that wasn't there.
     
  15. Stuart Mc

    Stuart Mc

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    Never entered any comps on here before - reading through this thread has been quite amusing though.

    FWIW I think any landscape competition which assesses a body of work rather than a one off image will probably get the nod from most landscapers (i.e. Scottish Landscape Photographer Of The Year) which removes the element of luck as it were and more assesses the overall quality of the photographer.

    I'd think a reputable person or persons with a background in landscapes to judge it would be a start - not sure how this would be achieved but it might go some way to getting back some of the togs who used to post regularly on the forum to return.

    I'd be happy with it being open to outside the UK - locations being more or less 'spectacular' is a bit irrelevant to me to be honest, unless of course judging becomes purely aesthetics-based rather than actually looking at the skill and imagination of the photographer. In which case the competition and it's judging loses credibility for me.

    Composites is a sticky area - astro images as someone mentioned are most commonly composites out of necessity to get maximum quality rather than anything else, I've no real issues with composites, like anything else if it's done skillfully and with imagination then great. In an ideal world you'd have something similar to LPOTY which has 'classic view' and 'your view' categories but in this case probably isn't feasible.
     
  16. Ste_S

    Ste_S

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    The largest Instagram hashtag/account for my area picks a photo of the day and the majority of the time they're one of five buildings in the city centre. It's pretty boring and they've been photographed to such an extent that it's almost impossible to do anything different with them.
    I'd rather competitions encouraged people not to be lazy and go out and take something different. If a photographer is good enough to take a great photo of generic location X, they're good enough to take a great photo of somewhere a bit more original.
     
  17. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

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    Trying for a new twist on a commonly shot subject is great, but if the result is a worse shot than you'd have gotten at the 'tripod holes' spot then take it there too; you can always enter the lesser shot just to be different

    Pretty much everyone I've ever known go to Iceland for photos has visited that crashed Dakota as it can make for such a cracking subject in its location. If I went, I'd go there too, it'd be daft not to

    As a Judge we have to see through the fact that its a commonly shot subject and mark it as is

    Dave
     
  18. newbie1

    newbie1

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    I'm a bit torn on this. There's no denying there are tripod holes for a reason and shots from those spots with great lighting / weather are going to look amazing. There's also a lot going for finding new compositions and finding the next tripod holes, no?

    A couple of months ago I saw a picture that caught my imagination, three snow covered hills one behind another with a single tree on the top of each one, but no clue about the location. I really wanted to capture an image like that and I could remember a place that might be possible. So I studied the map, tried google earth and went to look. It took three trips and on the third morning fresh snow had fallen and the sky was clear - exactly what I was looking for (see here). To begin I thought I'd found something new, however once I compared back to the picture that had caught my eye.....it was exactly the same place. So not a new discovery, nonetheless very happy with the result.
     
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  19. Ste_S

    Ste_S

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    I would hope that if a photographer has talent, they'll be able to make as good a shot at a lesser known location. The best shots for me are those taken by a photographer with a personal connection to the place and/or can tell a story, such as Kenna's Ratcliffe Power Station series or Godwin's Our Forbidden Land. Quite looking forward to Paul Hart's forthcoming Drained book for similar reasons.

    For other people, I think there's a Pokemon 'Gotta Catch 'em All' element to Photography, especially in Landscape and Nature. Some people take enjoyment in taking a technically excellent photo of an iconic/well photographed spot. Not for me, but each to their own.
     
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  20. newbie1

    newbie1

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    I do like Michael Kenna’s work
     
  21. horrocks

    horrocks

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    An amusing thread. Arguments seem to start very easily on forums, and quickly build up a head of steam.

    I very much agree with the above. It is undoubtedly quite easy to trudge around the globe taking photos of all the hot locations, ticking them off and moving onto the next one. It is much more difficult to coax a landscape into telling its stories through your lens, especially if that landscape is a subtle, undramatic one, and to have any chance of doing so, you really need to know that landscape. This is very familiar territory to me, and believe me, it is very hard. Fay Godwin told those quiet stories beautifully, and Paul Hart is an absolute master of the art. Landscapes don't really get quieter or less dramatic than The Fens, but he builds the narrative and holds the viewer incredibly effectively.

    He is, incidentally, currently exhibiting in the Print Sales room at The Photographers Gallery, a collection titled 'Poetry of Place'. It includes images from 'Drained', as well as 'Farmed' and 'Truncated'.
     
    Paul Cronin, Ste_S and Stuart Mc like this.
  22. buxtonmick

    buxtonmick

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    Well, that's got the little landscape POTY comp sorted then...:LOL:
     
  23. Ste_S

    Ste_S

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    Planning to visit on Saturday, looking forward to it

    Edit - Like your Somme series by the way
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  24. horrocks

    horrocks

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    Thank you Stephen, very much. I am slowly refreshing the Somme portfolio, posting up subtle re-edits of some photos, and removing others that I'm not quite happy with, refining it all down a bit.
     
  25. Marc

    Marc Mucky Rims Staff Member

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    I’ve had another read through this thread and am grateful for everyone’s input,

    I’d like to set a few things in stone otherwise we’ll never get this of the ground. With that in mind, some thoughts (and questions follow):

    UK v International

    Ok, so I think having the whole competition as UK only is a non-starter as the competition must be inclusive to all members. Running a separate section for UK only is an option and I’d be happy to incorporate that but you’d have to bear in mind that, if you believe there is an advantage to be gained by entering photos taken outside the UK, then that would still be there as far as the main competition is concerned.

    Just to add a personal point of view, Landscape photography isn’t all about beautiful scenery

    Numbers

    So, what is the consensus on the number of images that should make up the panel? Personally, I think 3 is not enough but too many would be unmanageable. I’m thinking 4 or 5 so my questions are::

    1. Should we state a definite number or should we let the entrant make the choice themselves?

    2. If it is a definite number, does odd work better as a panel than even?

    Theme

    One or two have said that they think having to link their images might prove restrictive and I’m inclined to agree but I think one thing that would make a panel more cohesive would be to make it as clear as possible that all the photos were taken by the same photographer (style,lighting processing) but that’s just my very humble opinion.

    Composites

    This is always going to be a bone of contention for some but it would be a nightmare to police. If it is obvious that the image is a composite then it wouldn’t have been done very well and the judges would mark accordingly so no real advantage to be gained.

    Anonymity/Judging

    As I have already said,we used to have a rule preventing entries having been posted previously. Tis has always proved unpopular as people like to post photos here when they think they’ve got a “good’un”. I have no intention of reintroducing that rule. Yes, some people have a style that the judges may recognise (except Dave) but I have absolute faith in the impartiality of the judging panel.

    As far as the judges are concerned, I thing we have a good panel and will be inviting them to continue if they so wish.

    When taken

    One thing that hasn’t been discussed is any restriction on when the entries should have been taken and I’d welcome peoples’ thoughts on this.

    Previously, entries have to have been taken within the year of the competition. Do you think this is about right? Should it be extended to maybe the beginning of the previous year? Maybe not have any restrictions at all. *


    *there would be a rule prohibiting the entry of any photos which have been entered in any previous POTY competitions.
     
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  26. Marc

    Marc Mucky Rims Staff Member

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    Oh, and I've been playing! :D

    logo.jpg
     
  27. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

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    Lovely image symbolising the march of man's rubbish dumps encroaching into city life ;)

    Lots of good points in there Marc

    Dave
     
  28. SFTPhotography

    SFTPhotography Top Cat

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    Panel of five I think would be superb. Agree on non UK scenes too.
     
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  29. Marc

    Marc Mucky Rims Staff Member

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    :LOL:
     
  30. Marc

    Marc Mucky Rims Staff Member

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    This one's forSteve. :D

    logo2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  31. newbie1

    newbie1

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    Tim
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  32. newbie1

    newbie1

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    sounds like a good setup, thank you. I’d go for 5 images too.
     
    Marc likes this.
  33. SFTPhotography

    SFTPhotography Top Cat

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  34. ChrisR

    ChrisR

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    Background: Mike Johnston of The Online Photographer blog had a call for black and white images out in his "bakers' dozen" series. He admits he made a mistake in simply asking for (up to 3) black and white images, without further qualification, and is now having to sort through some 400 images to choose from (including 3 of mine). Anyway, he put out a little mild critique in this post, including this:

    "Three pictures in a submission is almost like a mini-portfolio; one strong picture is weakened by being in the company of two weak ones, and three pictures that have nothing in common with each other suggest that the photographer has no coherent vision or style, no concerns that distinguish him or her from the crowd."

    So in this context, I think what he's saying is that 3 or 5 images submitted together will be judged together, regardless of whether the submitter thought of them as linked or themed or contrasted or independent or what.

    So a reasonable option, perhaps, for the "theme?" question is (a) leave the selection to the photographer and (b) leave the judging to the judges! It's up to the former to convey whatever she or he wants, and up to the latter to choose what they think is best (and preferably say why).
     
  35. Cagey75

    Cagey75

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    Keith
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    UK only would be a little bit ... snobbish, a bit like saying no cats in the Pet photography section - though all winners were still images of dogs :( [cat person]
     
  36. Ste_S

    Ste_S

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    My twopeneth. I think there should be a theme, any competent photographer can link up a few images over a year. Number is up to the judges and what they feel they can wade through, 3-5 ?
    Entries shouldn't be limited by country
     
  37. kissfoto

    kissfoto

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    Think the point is that not whether any people who live outside the UK enter, but as members they should have the opportunity to submit if they wish. JMO
     
  38. GaryLaird

    GaryLaird

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    Since no one has picked up the point yet regarding when the shots were taken. My opinion is to level the playing field and give us newbies the slimmest of chances then the pictures should be taken on a date after the competition is formally announced.

    Also a question, and sorry if this has already been covered.......is there a definition of what is a landscape? With or without human structures and/or people, seascapes, cityscapes ?
     
  39. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

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    As one of the Judges I don't recall being given a definition for the category, nor do I feel it really needs one - but please feel free to have a crack at defining it and let's see where that argument takes us :)

    Dave
     
  40. GaryLaird

    GaryLaird

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    Gary Laird
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    Nope.......that seems like a lions den that I'm am not prepared to enter! If there are no hard and fast rules on this then that's good enough for me :exit:
     

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