Canon MPE lens lighting

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davholla

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David
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I have the Canon MPE lens and I struggle with 4x or more magnification under less than perfect light.
I took this the other day but it was at home (with a Canon 7D Mark II camera)
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/1491182/40396118


Outside I cannot see anything after 4x magnification unless it is sunny. I have the Yongnuo YN-14EX Macro ring flash and although the flash is fine, the lamp function is not enough unless the light is good. Is it possible to put some sort of torch on it so I can get more light.
Any other ideas? I could ask my wife to shine a torch on something but sadly it would take me a lot harder to take photos like that.
 
Incredible lens. I am a Nikon shooter, so I can't have one, sadly.

Are you saying you are having a problem with lighting for the shot, or for focusing?
For focusing, have you tried live view, with exposure simulation switched off?
I would have thought that was the easiest way to focus.
For lighting the subject when shooting, the problem is just how close you have to be to the subject at the higher magnifications.
Ring flash, or the small flashes which clip to the front of the lens would be the answer.
Your flash should do the job though.
 
Sadly live view does not work with my ring flash on either Canon 550D or Canon 7d mk II.
I do not have enough light to focus
 
davholla said:
Sadly live view does not work with my ring flash on either Canon 550D or Canon 7d mk II.
I do not have enough light to focus
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So you can't use live view at all? (Sorry, I'm not familiar with Canon cameras, but don't understand why you cant use live view).
For extra light could you rig up a couple of "gooseneck" type rigs with a bright white led at the end to assist?
 
For some reason live view + external flash doesn't work. (Saying that after googling it there may be a fix so thanks for the idea).
 
I'm not overly sure that will help - depends on what you are taking and what you mean by "less than perfect conditions", I imaging viewing the liveview when using hand held would be tough.

You may want to rig up a way of shining some small torch down to give you light. Rubber bands or such like to attach it.
 
:agree: if Bryn @Tintin124 see's this he should be able to advise I had the fortune to see just how creative he can be with his set up. From memory he had a small torch that was held on the side of his flash head with elastic bands this was used for focusing
 
Ploddles said:
Don't see why not, it works on my 5D3 and MT-24EX.
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I assure you it doesn't work on first shutter press on my 500d. Should work on 7d mkii though would be surprised if it doesn't. Silent shutter may be the issue.

Anyway back to OP. The yn14-ex is not a great idea well at least front mounted. If you can work out a way to take it off the front and have it angled over the front but you do need to think of a way to diffuse it.

Check out orionmystery blog there is a ring flash solution. :D
 
I have fixed live view on my Canon 7d mkii however the lighting is worse looking through live view.
Thanks tintin124 that should fix the problem with the ring artifact as you can see with this image I took in Colombia
https://www.flickr.com/photos/14586608@N08/21903960680/in/album-72157659280211586/

The link at Orion mystery is
http://orionmystery.blogspot.com/2015/11/diffusing-macro-lite-flashes-or-ring.html


However I still have the original problem "Outside I cannot see anything after 4x magnification unless it is sunny, the lamp function is not enough unless the light is good. Is it possible to put some sort of torch on it so I can get more light.?"

BTW is this the type of diffuser gel I want?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Light-Frost-Diffuser-Gel-Sheets/dp/B0015NYU02
 
davholla said:
I have fixed live view on my Canon 7d mkii however the lighting is worse looking through live view.
Thanks tintin124 that should fix the problem with the ring artifact as you can see with this image I took in Colombia
https://www.flickr.com/photos/14586608@N08/21903960680/in/album-72157659280211586/

The link at Orion mystery is
http://orionmystery.blogspot.com/2015/11/diffusing-macro-lite-flashes-or-ring.html


However I still have the original problem "Outside I cannot see anything after 4x magnification unless it is sunny, the lamp function is not enough unless the light is good. Is it possible to put some sort of torch on it so I can get more light.?"

BTW is this the type of diffuser gel I want?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Light-Frost-Diffuser-Gel-Sheets/dp/B0015NYU02
Click to expand...

Was more think the Hismans one from;

http://orionmystery.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/more-macro-rigs.html

You will need to get a high powered torch something like http://www.amazon.co.uk/CrazyFire®-...d=1448366271&sr=8-7&keywords=high+power+torch

Though would recommend getting the 2x18650 or 2x26650 batteries instead of using AAA.

As for those gel sheets it may not be thick enough and create a unwanted cast but as I have never tried them think for price its worth a go. :D
 
The problem about a torch is that I need one hand for the lens, one for the torch and one for the button to take the photo which is one more than I have. I will try with a head torch.
 
davholla said:
The problem about a torch is that I need one hand for the lens, one for the torch and one for the button to take the photo which is one more than I have.
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There is many a way to put a torch off your hands ... infact with the Hishmans setup you could attach the torch onto the side of the controller unit with elastic bands (be warned use foam between torch and unit).

With the foam you can angle the torch.... with the front sheet/foam that will be the actual light source as the torch will light that up.

A question no one has asked what aperture have you been using?
 
davholla said:
I normally use f16.0
Is this the set up you mean?
http://orionmystery.blogspot.com/2012/11/hishams-macro-rig.html


Do you know where you can get the foam from? Or for that matter the rubber bands? Have you done this personally?
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Foam needs to be medium or loose density, but you can use frosted sheets or even that Gel stuff might work, foam though you will need to test I would say aim for 10mm thickish and if necessary trim some off if blocking too much light. Ebay/Amazon

Rubber bands can be bought from anywhere... poundland, Wilkos, tesco... the list goes on and on.

To answer your question I have tried lots of things but no never thought to try YN14-ex on my MP-E it wouldn't provide me what I want (I need to emphasise the "I" here). In fact it hasn't been used since about 6 months into my 2 year journey, for what its worth I didn't get an MP-E until 1.5yrs into my Journey. Though I do for sure know as soon as you take that RF (RingFlash) off the front of the lens your shots will improve.

Sure anyone that knows me or met me (@Bazzle) they know how much kit I have been through tried used etc etc.... but that journey has made me.
 
Tintin124 said:
I assure you it doesn't work on first shutter press on my 500d. Should work on 7d mkii though would be surprised if it doesn't.
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Don't doubt you Bryn, I was just thinking as the 7DII is newer than the 5D3 that it should work. Notwithstanding that, David has found a solution.

What was the fix David, others with the 7DII may be interested to know (as I am but just out of curiosity for rme)?

I still haven't got to grips with my MPE, I should get it out again and give it another go.
 
Ploddles said:
Don't doubt you Bryn, I was just thinking as the 7DII is newer than the 5D3 that it should work. Notwithstanding that, David has found a solution.

What was the fix David, others with the 7DII may be interested to know (as I am but just out of curiosity for rme)?

I still haven't got to grips with my MPE, I should get it out again and give it another go.
Click to expand...
Rather embarrassingly I am not quite sure, I think it always worked I just had assumed that it didn't (I have only had 2 weeks and I have been ill for 2 of those days and at work for 10).

I think I am going to try the following
i) head torch to get more light
ii) toilet paper diffuser (I am really useless with my hands) to see if that gets rid of the light circle on beetles and coins (sadly I will have to test this on coins)
iii) if (ii) doesn't work this set up http://orionmystery.blogspot.com/2012/11/hishams-macro-rig.html

Ploddles try the MPE again you can get really good images with it https://www.flickr.com/photos/14586608@N08/22652692204/in/dateposted-public/ was with a Canon 550 D with your cameras you should get better than that. I find it hard to get all in focus at 5x

https://www.flickr.com/photos/14586608@N08/23227199656/in/dateposted-public/

(although maybe a lower aperture might have helped I will have to test it with a patient stick insect model).
 
At very high magnifications, and when searching through the leaf litter, I add my own flood lighting.

I have a video LED light (something similar to this) mounted on a small tripod (I use a gorilla pod, but a cheaper alternative should work just as well) and just pointed at the area i am working in. As the subjects are so small, it lights enough of my hunting ground that I rarely need to adjust it, and I've used it in pitch black woods at night and it gives me sufficient light as if it was day (of course this causes the bugs to panic a bit). It takes a load of batteries though (about 6 IIRC) and I would recommend using something like sony eneloops to give you sufficient time to work with.

HTHs
 
TimmyG said:
Good question from @Tintin124 but I can't see he responded (apologies if I missed it somewhere).

F16 seems to high to me, especially when you get to 4X magnification. I'm usually around the F8-9 mark by then, and wider if I think I can stack it.
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I have to say as soon as he asked it I thought maybe should I change my F number
 
davholla said:
TimmyG
is this the sort of gorilla pod you have?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002FGTWOC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
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Yep that's the one. I bought it originally for my camera, but I tend to use it more for my lighting nowadays. It was expensive as I recall (around £70) so I'm sure there are some cheaper alternatives, although that looks like a very good price for it (if you don't get stung by customs charges and delivery).

Edit: OOh looks like amazon uk have it on sale:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Joby-Gorill...F8&qid=1448451337&sr=8-1&keywords=gorilla+pod

I might buy another one!
 
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TimmyG said:
Yep that's the one. I bought it originally for my camera, but I tend to use it more for my lighting nowadays. It was expensive as I recall (around £70) so I'm sure there are some cheaper alternatives, although that looks like a very good price for it (if you don't get stung by customs charges and delivery).
Click to expand...
That's from the UK, so no additional charges.
 
TimmyG said:
At very high magnifications, and when searching through the leaf litter, I add my own flood lighting.

I have a video LED light (something similar to this) mounted on a small tripod (I use a gorilla pod, but a cheaper alternative should work just as well) and just pointed at the area i am working in. As the subjects are so small, it lights enough of my hunting ground that I rarely need to adjust it, and I've used it in pitch black woods at night and it gives me sufficient light as if it was day (of course this causes the bugs to panic a bit). It takes a load of batteries though (about 6 IIRC) and I would recommend using something like sony eneloops to give you sufficient time to work with.

HTHs
Click to expand...

Tim, do you still need flash as well when actually taking the photo or does this produce sufficient light? I'm guessing you use flash as well.
 
TimmyG said:
At very high magnifications, and when searching through the leaf litter, I add my own flood lighting.

I have a video LED light (something similar to this) mounted on a small tripod (I use a gorilla pod, but a cheaper alternative should work just as well) and just pointed at the area i am working in. As the subjects are so small, it lights enough of my hunting ground that I rarely need to adjust it, and I've used it in pitch black woods at night and it gives me sufficient light as if it was day (of course this causes the bugs to panic a bit). It takes a load of batteries though (about 6 IIRC) and I would recommend using something like sony eneloops to give you sufficient time to work with.

HTHs
Click to expand...
Is that separate from the camera or on the same tripod as the camera?
 
davholla said:
Is that separate from the camera or on the same tripod as the camera?
Click to expand...
Separate. I really just use it for a focussing light, and it works because I shoot a lot of very high magnification stuff (5X +) so I'm not moving around too much... just pick a spot on the ground and see what you can find in that area. On camera I have a diy bracket, with the flash and diffuser mounted at the front of the lens:

Megalothorax Hunting Gear by Tim Garlick, on Flickr

Ignore the tripod in this image, that was only to hold the camera for the photo, and ignore the other adapters on the lens. The setup is the same if the MP-E was mounted on it's own.
 
TimmyG said:
Separate. I really just use it for a focussing light, and it works because I shoot a lot of very high magnification stuff (5X +) so I'm not moving around too much... just pick a spot on the ground and see what you can find in that area. On camera I have a diy bracket, with the flash and diffuser mounted at the front of the lens:

Megalothorax Hunting Gear by Tim Garlick, on Flickr

Ignore the tripod in this image, that was only to hold the camera for the photo, and ignore the other adapters on the lens. The setup is the same if the MP-E was mounted on it's own.
Click to expand...
What is the maximum magnification you can get with that? Is it 10x times or less
 
davholla said:
What is the maximum magnification you can get with that? Is it 10x times or less
Click to expand...
A little over 10. To be fair I haven't spent much time optimising it and would like to try using an achromat on the front. This is just based on the gear I had available to me. I believe I can get slightly more magnification by moving the tubes in front of the teleconverter. I did try this but found that alignment was more prone to getting flare from the flash, so I preferred this order.
 
nice set up Bryn.......... your getting some good results with it

It looks more sturdy than some of the diffusers I've tried. What have you adapted as the diffuser? some sort of juice bottle ?
 
Bazzle said:
nice set up Bryn.......... your getting some good results with it

It looks more sturdy than some of the diffusers I've tried. What have you adapted as the diffuser? some sort of juice bottle ?
Click to expand...

This is a plastic globe light ... :D
 
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