Compositional Guides: Why they don't matter, and when they do.

sk66

sk66

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I talk a lot about composition and compositional guidelines when critiquing images. I also see/hear a lot of others (elsewhere) talk about them like they are some kind of law. And I've seen them explained and applied "incorrectly" more often than otherwise.
So I made a video... beware, it's 16minutes of your life you will never get back!



View: https://youtu.be/TXKoS0VJf70
 
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I can sum it up in ten seconds...
"Compositional guides matter when they improve the image, and don't matter when the image looks better when you break the guidelines."
 
Which came first...

1 - the mathematical guide to composition, or the

2 - ooh - it looks prettier off centre and a bit up or a bit down

I'm going with 2 as being the driving force which boring maths guys just couldn't ignore and then found a pattern in

The guides/rules whatever are great as a learning tool so you can learn to 'see' better, but once you have a grasp of pleasing composition the 'ooh it looks pretty there' takes over, it doesn't matter why it does

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Which came first...

1 - the mathematical guide to composition, or the

2 - ooh - it looks prettier off centre and a bit up or a bit down

I'm going with 2 as being the driving force which boring maths guys just couldn't ignore and then found a pattern in

The guides/rules whatever are great as a learning tool so you can learn to 'see' better, but once you have a grasp of pleasing composition the 'ooh it looks pretty there' takes over, it doesn't matter why it does

Dave
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The compositional guides are about more than just placing something "off center." They're just as much/more-so about where and how different elements are placed in order to enhance and direct "the flow" of an image. In fact, the "mathematical" approach doesn't even really apply to most photographic compositions/ratios (but it might be applicable to an element/elements w/in a composition).
 
sk66 said:
The compositional guides are about more than just placing something "off center." They're just as much/more-so about where and how different elements are placed in order to enhance and direct "the flow" of an image. In fact, the "mathematical" approach doesn't even really apply to most photographic compositions/ratios (but it might be applicable to an element/elements w/in a composition).
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Yep - I know that - but

I still think they all developed from a general - ooh it looks pretty there - realisation

Just like 3 ornaments as a set from Laura Ashley is more appealing than 2, not a 'rule' just a realisation of what appeals

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Yep - I know that - but

I still think they all developed from a general - ooh it looks pretty there - realisation

Just like 3 ornaments as a set from Laura Ashley is more appealing than 2, not a 'rule' just a realisation of what appeals

Dave
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The human response to visual information through collecting sample of such over centuries of artwork :D I think its something to do with how our reptile brain works. In reality artist from the cavepainters 3000+ years ago until modern times have tried and errored and with the forthcoming of photography and art for the average man/woman the composition in themost successfull artwork have been studied and turned into principles and guidelines.
 
Cultivation of intuition is the way. Right-brain forward!
 
Thanks, I never knew these guide lines existed in photoshop!

HOLY COW, they exist in lightroom too!!!

I knew about composition guides, but to be able to see it like this has opened up a whole new world to me....
 
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Watched the video, nice work and good explanation Steve, and I find its more a why these guides work and how they work differently with different types of subjects giving us some great tools to work our subjects pre— as well as postexposure. Now Ill go and read the book "Se her" roughly translated "See here/See this" where a danish photographer use the writings of Mortensen with his own views to explain composition again.
 
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dancook said:
Thanks, I never knew these guide lines existed in photoshop!

HOLY COW, they exist in lightroom too!!!

I knew about composition guides, but to be able to see it like this has opened up a whole new world to me....
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soeren said:
Watched the video, nice work and good explanation Steve, and I find its more a why these guides work and how they work differently with different types of subjects giving us some great tools to work our subjects pre— as well as postexposure ...
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Thank you both!
 
I found it interesting and a good aid to how we think about images. It's now part of my library. Well worth 16 minutes.
 
I enjoyed it, and thank you for taking the time to create a video like this for the forum.

Pretty much in line with my views on composing, I switch off all rules of thirds etc on the camera screen and compose purely by feel, I am looking for repeating patterns, lead in lines, curves, juxtaposition of colour, contrast and/or texture along with a view that flows the eye through the scene. I don't want to be hamstrung trying to force everything to follow a rule.

However, in post I will hit the x key to scroll through crop overlays to analyse rules in relation to what I had created. I do however agree with @dgphototraining that the aesthetically pleasing results came first and the rules followed.
 
Craig_85 said:
I enjoyed it, and thank you for taking the time to create a video like this for the forum.

Pretty much in line with my views on composing, I switch off all rules of thirds etc on the camera screen and compose purely by feel, I am looking for repeating patterns, lead in lines, curves, juxtaposition of colour, contrast and/or texture along with a view that flows the eye through the scene. I don't want to be hamstrung trying to force everything to follow a rule.

However, in post I will hit the x key to scroll through crop overlays to analyse rules in relation to what I had created. I do however agree with @dgphototraining that the aesthetically pleasing results came first and the rules followed.
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Thank you, and I do agree of course... that's pretty much exactly my process as well. I tried to emphasize that in the video, I hope it came across well.
I find it particularly funny seeing all of the "examples" of the golden spiral applied to all sorts of crap online... a lot of times it is, at best and with a lot of stretching, an application/example of the golden ratio. But the golden spiral???

The diagonal method was discovered in 2006... I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that the "rule(s)" came afterwards.
 
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juggler said:
I think that's a very useful starting point to get people beyond the rule of thirds. I might one day get around to listing all of the composition books I have (some read, some unread and some abandoned)..
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Yes, the ROT kind of drives me nuts sometimes... it's like only learning one thing partially, like only using a camera in full manual mode at minimum ISO and max aperture. It can work very well in some situations, and it might work ok in many situations, but it's certainly not the only/best choice in all situations.
 
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