Do I need to disclose........

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lynton

Lynton

awkward customer
Messages
10,606
Name
Lynton (yes really!)
Edit My Images
No
Ok... on 16/6/2012 I got stopped and breathalysed by a PC.

Failed it.

Went to court , got a ban. Did "my time" and a hefty fine.

Not arguing it, don't want to hear how stupid I was for the morning after the night before. Lesson. Learned.


Now my dilemma is, applying for another job question is "Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence?"

Firstly cannot see any conclusive on google if it's criminal or not... tried in maj court so I assume possibly.

Secondly, once a conviction has been "spent" (cannot get conclusive as to when this might be) I didn't think there is a need to declare it...


Please, not interested in my nuggetness. I am being totally upfront and thinking cannot help/hurt to declare - obviously work (current employer) was aware...
 
I found this
http://findlaw.co.uk/law/criminal/drink_driving/500105.html
Will a drink driving conviction show up in my background check?

Many employers conduct criminal background checks by asking applicants to consent to a Basic Disclosure of all unspent convictions and cautions recorded on the Police National Computer. Therefore, if your conviction is spent, as defined by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, it will not show up on a Basic Disclosure.

For certain jobs and professions, a Standard Disclosure or an Enhanced Disclosure may be required. Most professional associations require applicants consent to a Standard Disclosure. This shows all convictions and cautions (both spent and unspent) recorded on the Police National Computer.

An Enhanced Disclosure is usually required for jobs working with children and vulnerable adults. This shows all convictions and cautions recorded on both the Police National Computer and local police systems .

Thus, no matter what, your conviction will show up on a Standard Disclosure and Enhanced Disclosure.

And this
http://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driving_laws.php

Drink driving laws in the UK are strictly enforced and the penalties upon conviction can be severe. In the UK it is illegal to:

  1. Drive or attempt to drive with excess alcohol (while exceeding the legal limit)
  2. Be in charge of a motor vehicle with excess alcohol (while exceeding the legal limit)
  3. Drive or attempt to drive while unfit through drink (alcohol) or drugs
  4. Be in charge of a motor vehicle whilst unfit through drink (alcohol) or drugs
  5. Fail to co-operate with a preliminary road side breath test when required to do so
  6. Fail to provide an evidential specimen (blood, breath or urine) for analysis while driving or attempting to drive a vehicle
  7. Fail to provide an evidential specimen (blood, breath or urine) for analysis while in charge of a vehicle
  8. Fail to give permission for a laboratory test of a specimen of blood taken while that person was incapable of consenting
Upon conviction of any of the above offences a person will have a criminal record.
 
Firstly yes, it's criminal.
Secondly, it isn't spent.
Third, even spent convictions have to be declared in some circumstances, I don't have a list of those circumstances but they would include some types of job.

Assuming that this isn't a job application that will result in checks being made that will show your conviction, it's your call.
Bear in mind though that obtaining a pecunary advantage (a job) by deception is itself a criminal offence
 
You could get a job as a bin lorry driver in Glasgow.
Apparently you don't have to declare anything...
 
Even police `cautions` are kept on your record & never really go away.

tbh, given that it was over 3 years ago & presumably your only offence, I'd declare it.
If you get to interview stage, just tell them you weren't sure whether you needed to declare it or not, but felt it best to be honest, just in case.

Thing is, if they did find out & you hadn't mentioned it, they'd have grounds to sack you & possibly prosecute.
 
Does the new position involve driving as part of your job?
 
Last edited:
Yes, if you have been asked to disclose criminal convictions, yours is current and valid.
As someone who deals in this area, I can say if a check was done and you were found to be not telling the truth.
You could face dismissal.
 
Mr Bump said:
Yes, if you have been asked to disclose criminal convictions, yours is current and valid.
As someone who deals in this area, I can say if a check was done and you were found to be not telling the truth.
You could face dismissal.
Click to expand...

And prosecution
 
My simple advise; disclose everything. I've seen too many good guys (and girls) loose out because of non-disclosure of stuff that really wouldn't have mattered.

Now depending on what it is, a follow up interview can still be flipping scary even if you haven't done anything ;)
 
A lot of civilian organisations are including this question in there applications as a matter of HR procedure.
Don't be phased by it, more people have convictions that you would realise nowadays.

Honesty for companies starts on the application forms.

What you will often find is that section of the form will not be seen by the dept weeding out indiviuals only on considering offer.
 
many thanks all, and serious thanks for being non judgemental...

As to the q's driving will be occssional as in visit this office / place etc.. not a rep job which involves driving every day as such...

Best thing is to declare it and let them judge..
 
Lynton said:
many thanks all, and serious thanks for being non judgemental...

As to the q's driving will be occssional as in visit this office / place etc.. not a rep job which involves driving every day as such...

Best thing is to declare it and let them judge..
Click to expand...
As Mr Bump said, they will not judge, the interviewers and your management will likely never even see it. If they actually check they most likely will be looking for honesty and only judge if it is truly relevant to what you are doing...
 
OldCarlos said:
Even police `cautions` are kept on your record & never really go away.

tbh, given that it was over 3 years ago & presumably your only offence, I'd declare it.
If you get to interview stage, just tell them you weren't sure whether you needed to declare it or not, but felt it best to be honest, just in case.

Thing is, if they did find out & you hadn't mentioned it, they'd have grounds to sack you & possibly prosecute.
Click to expand...

sound advice. Thankyou
 
Interesting, I just checked with a colleague and motoring disqualifications may be different.
They may become spent very quickly and hence you are clear.
 
Mr Bump said:
Interesting, I just checked with a colleague and motoring disqualifications may be different.
They may become spent very quickly and hence you are clear.
Click to expand...
The forms I've had to fill out normally provided guidance, i.e. including motoring offences. I would just play it safe and run the risk of over declaring....It won't have concequences, yet not declaring something will almost immediately guarantee you wont get the job...
 
Yes its unclear on your conviction, its worth a call to an expert on that one.
 
Lynton said:
Ok... on 16/6/2012 I got stopped and breathalysed by a PC.

Failed it.

Went to court , got a ban. Did "my time" and a hefty fine.

Not arguing it, don't want to hear how stupid I was for the morning after the night before. Lesson. Learned.


Now my dilemma is, applying for another job question is "Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence?"

Firstly cannot see any conclusive on google if it's criminal or not... tried in maj court so I assume possibly.

Secondly, once a conviction has been "spent" (cannot get conclusive as to when this might be) I didn't think there is a need to declare it...
Click to expand...

I think these are some of the newest guidelines for the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

https://www.nacro.org.uk/data/files/rehabilitation-of-offenders-act-1974-guide-v3-1036.pdf

This is the relevant section for you.

Rehabilitation periods for motoring offences – an example from the Ministry of Justice

An adult is convicted of a road traffic offence and the court imposes a fine (rehabilitation period: one year), an endorsement (rehabilitation period: five years), penalty points (rehabilitation period: three years) and a driving disqualification for one year (rehabilitation period: one year). The rehabilitation period for this conviction will be five years because the endorsement carries the longest rehabilitation period.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
5 years until it's spent unless you went to prison. then it's between 7, 10 years or never for 6 months or less, up to 2.5 years or over 2.5 years respectively
 
I thought with DD offences they and to be declared to insurance companies for 10 years? You'd have to be honest if there was any business related driving using a company vehicle on company insurance. Easier to tell them anyway. Then it becomes a non issue.
 
srichards said:
I thought with DD offences they and to be declared to insurance companies for 10 years? You'd have to be honest if there was any business related driving using a company vehicle on company insurance. Easier to tell them anyway. Then it becomes a non issue.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure it's 5 years before a DD conviction is "spent" for insurance purposes.
 
What does it actually say on the application form Lynton?

I ask because I have come across applications in the past that ask about convictions with the exception of driving offences
 
Keith W said:
What does it actually say on the application form Lynton?

I ask because I have come across applications in the past that ask about convictions with the exception of driving offences
Click to expand...

Actual question is (agency application form)... and i quote... ""Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence?"
 
POAH said:
5 years until it's spent unless you went to prison. then it's between 7, 10 years or never for 6 months or less, up to 2.5 years or over 2.5 years respectively
Click to expand...

Quite thankfully I didn't!

Have had a read of Rehab act and yep 5 yrs.
 
srichards said:
I thought with DD offences they and to be declared to insurance companies for 10 years? You'd have to be honest if there was any business related driving using a company vehicle on company insurance. Easier to tell them anyway. Then it becomes a non issue.
Click to expand...

It stays on your license for 11 yrs (random!) but only have to disclose, so it seems for ins for 5 yrs - work in the industry.

What i am trying to establish is "Is it a criminal offence!"
 
Lynton said:
It stays on your license for 11 yrs (random!) but only have to disclose, so it seems for ins for 5 yrs - work in the industry.

What i am trying to establish is "Is it a criminal offence!"
Click to expand...

Yes, it is classed as a criminal rather than motoring offense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
The 1974 act does allow you to lie on forms, or interviews, even when specifically asked to disclose, without legal repercussions, if your conviction is spent. Unfortunately yours doesn't look like it is.
 
Front up then if they're not bothered, at least you've demonstrated your honesty.
 
Lynton said:
It stays on your license for 11 yrs (random!) but only have to disclose, so it seems for ins for 5 yrs - work in the industry.

What i am trying to establish is "Is it a criminal offence!"
Click to expand...

Yes it's a criminal offence, yes those years above are correct, except there are some things you still have to declare, exceptions, like shotgun certificates
 
dejongj said:
My simple advise; disclose everything. I've seen too many good guys (and girls) loose out because of non-disclosure of stuff that really wouldn't have mattered.
Click to expand...
:plus1: :agree:

I previously worked for an investment bank that prided itself in its background checks. They were insane. They even phoned my GCSE exam boards to confirm my grades, despite me having gone on to do A-Levels, an undergrad degree, a postgrad degree and three sets of professional qualifications. I think they thought they were MI5 or something. :runaway:

Anyhow, I mention this because they were trying to hire someone for my department and one candidate had his job offer vetoed by HR because group security had discovered he had had a CCJ against his name for an unpaid utility bill - which he had settled in full well before the job application had touched the bank's desk. Apparently if he had been honest, it wouldn't have been a problem - what concerned them was that it hadn't been disclosed. :banghead:

So, err on the side of caution and disclose is my opinion.
 
@Llamaman Not strictly the right advice, I work in the EXACT area of the OPs request so offer the correct advice.

When being asked about declaring/disclosing consult the guidelines regarding spent convictions closely.

If a conviction is spent then you simply don't disclose it unless you fall outside of the guidelines, children, vulnerable etc....

The whole point of spent convictions is you can move past them with time, if you declare a spent conviction you will just be offering yourself up for possible prejudiced judgment.
 
Mr Bump said:
@Llamaman Not strictly the right advice, I work in the EXACT area of the OPs request so offer the correct advice.

When being asked about declaring/disclosing consult the guidelines regarding spent convictions closely.

If a conviction is spent then you simply don't disclose it unless you fall outside of the guidelines, children, vulnerable etc....

The whole point of spent convictions is you can move past them with time, if you declare a spent conviction you will just be offering yourself up for possible prejudiced judgment.
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot you wrote, right up to this moment. I'm even disclosing stuff that could be perceived as controversial especially in the area I work in.

Sure you don't have to, but if it does shows up you run the risk that if you didn't disclose it you will most definitely don't get it. And for something the OP has described there shouldn't be any issue and not even access to that information by the interview panel. Never shy away from your history, it is part of you.
 
@dejongi The rules regarding spent convictions are there for a reason, choose to do things differently if you please , but as I said above.
I cannot stress any more than I have done. follow the rules to the letter.

spent=don't disclose.
 
I appreciate other sectors may differ, so I'll accept your experience. In Financial Services, the basic rule is: if there's any chance the employer will find out about it, then you disclose.

Even if it might be 'spent' and you are not legally required to disclose it, if it might be discovered by, e.g. an internet trawl, then failure to disclose is likely to cost you the job. It might not be fair, but given the shenanigans the traders have been up to, probity is now the watchword and if it looks like you're trying to hide something they'll go for the other candidate. Or, in the case of the example I gave, restart the recruitment process from scratch.
 
If the prospective employer uses the non declaration of a spent conviction as a reason not to employ you (if you can prove it ;) ), they themselves are breaking the law.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top