Duck ID required please

footman

footman

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Name
Laurence
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Lake, Gigny Sur Saone, France.
 
footman said:
This could get interesting, well sort of........
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The thought that it might be a transvestite might be deemed sort of interesting I guess:D

Laurence ,Wez knows I worked with many domestic breeds of poultry, We also showed ducks(in particular calls) as well as bred oh god mate I dunno 250 breeds of chuck turks gossers dux wildfowl pheasies partridge...... lets say a couple or three birdies;),that's why he's linked me . The fella looks very much like a drake Rouen in eclipse to me,Roger is right on it here,just sex is probably wrong.
Let me come back to sex being probably wrong in a mo.


The Rouen is basically France's equivelant of our Aylesbury ,only our bird is a big white thing with a keel and a pink(no NOT YELLOW,that's a pekin) beak and their's is somewhat similar again a keel ,but this time plumage is basically back to the mallard progenitor. but they are both essentially mans effort at making a mallard into a big bird fit for the table,rather than as an egg layer. The white Aylesbury is cherished because the white pin feathers don't show in the dressed bird the same as the darker quills do amongst other facets.

Laurence, most of the domestic breeds come from a mallard,ie their progenitor, The muskovy comes from the south american musk duck(different species) I believe,hence the totally different incubation period of 35 days not 28...or there abouts,between the two. So essentially it is a bloody great big Mallard with a keel,that your picture shows quite clearly. corse a female should have a brown head with an eyes tripe and a saddlle of darker marking on said bill just like a female mallard,yours looks more like a drake than a duck ie a boy not girl. In the summer ducks moult out all their primary wing feathers together,and become flightless,alongside this they change their plumage..more apparent in the drakes,which loose some of that gaudy plumage that they breed in,ie they go into eclipse. That is possibly what you see here a drake...male Rouen not in it's full breeding plumage.

Here is the bit where I am unsure and a bit about why. For some reason,probably hormones being out of balance,some females can show male plumage characteristics,so me old mate Roger may well be right,and it is a female,the only sure way of knowing is the sound she or he makes.The derivitives of mallard make a different sound according to their sex,boys have that rasping airy sound,where as the girls quack. so if this bird makes a conventional quack it's a girl,with a messed up plumage pattern,if not it's a drake in eclipse.


So to sum up I'm pretty sure it is a Rouen and if I knew what noise it made might go further. The thing that is making me slightly unsure is the plumage in your pic is not completely characteristic of a drake,the claret bid extends too far down the sides/,bottom edge of the wings,so this might be pointing towards either a messed up girl or simply that eclipse pattern mentioned above,it's definitely not right for full male breeding plumage or female for that matter.

Buddy this is not 100% certainty it's probably very close though. Mallard crosses within the species ie wild mallards crossed to domesticated breeds(drevied from mallard progentitor) gone feral can have a belwildering variety of colour patterns,but i'm as sure as can be that there is rouen in your bird pictured and probably it is pure,it's just one cannot be 100%certain from one pic with let us say anomolies in plumage.

Hope this helps and maybe just maybe was interesting too:)

take care,big ol duck ain't they;)

Stu

Ps apologies on spelling i'm short on time and will always struggle ,but I hope you can get something from this! Oh and yes lads/lasses I am still here and am still chasing beasties with a camera at every chance I get,just had little time to show much of late tis all....... rut is coming:woot:
 
Stuart Philpott said:
The thought that it might be a transvestite might be deemed sort of interesting I guess:D

Laurence ,Wez knows I worked with many domestic breeds of poultry, We also showed ducks(in particular calls) as well as bred oh god mate I dunno 250 breeds of chuck turks gossers dux wildfowl pheasies partridge...... lets say a couple or three birdies;),that's why he's linked me . The fella looks very much like a drake Rouen in eclipse to me,Roger is right on it here,just sex is probably wrong.
Let me come back to sex being probably wrong in a mo.


The Rouen is basically France's equivelant of our Aylesbury ,only our bird is a big white thing with a keel and a pink(no NOT YELLOW,that's a pekin) beak and their's is somewhat similar again a keel ,but this time plumage is basically back to the mallard progenitor. but they are both essentially mans effort at making a mallard into a big bird fit for the table,rather than as an egg layer. The white Aylesbury is cherished because the white pin feathers don't show in the dressed bird the same as the darker quills do amongst other facets.

Laurence, most of the domestic breeds come from a mallard,ie their progenitor, The muskovy comes from the south american musk duck(different species) I believe,hence the totally different incubation period of 35 days not 28...or there abouts,between the two. So essentially it is a bloody great big Mallard with a keel,that your picture shows quite clearly. corse a female should have a brown head with an eyes tripe and a saddlle of darker marking on said bill just like a female mallard,yours looks more like a drake than a duck ie a boy not girl. In the summer ducks moult out all their primary wing feathers together,and become flightless,alongside this they change their plumage..more apparent in the drakes,which loose some of that gaudy plumage that they breed in,ie they go into eclipse. That is possibly what you see here a drake...male Rouen not in it's full breeding plumage.

Here is the bit where I am unsure and a bit about why. For some reason,probably hormones being out of balance,some females can show male plumage characteristics,so me old mate Roger may well be right,and it is a female,the only sure way of knowing is the sound she or he makes.The derivitives of mallard make a different sound according to their sex,boys have that rasping airy sound,where as the girls quack. so if this bird makes a conventional quack it's a girl,with a messed up plumage pattern,if not it's a drake in eclipse.


So to sum up I'm pretty sure it is a Rouen and if I knew what noise it made might go further. The thing that is making me slightly unsure is the plumage in your pic is not completely characteristic of a drake,the claret bid extends too far down the sides/,bottom edge of the wings,so this might be pointing towards either a messed up girl or simply that eclipse pattern mentioned above,it's definitely not right for full male breeding plumage or female for that matter.

Buddy this is not 100% certainty it's probably very close though. Mallard crosses within the species ie wild mallards crossed to domesticated breeds(drevied from mallard progentitor) gone feral can have a belwildering variety of colour patterns,but i'm as sure as can be that there is rouen in your bird pictured and probably it is pure,it's just one cannot be 100%certain from one pic with let us say anomolies in plumage.

Hope this helps and maybe just maybe was interesting too:)

take care,big ol duck ain't they;)

Stu

Ps apologies on spelling i'm short on time and will always struggle ,but I hope you can get something from this! Oh and yes lads/lasses I am still here and am still chasing beasties with a camera at every chance I get,just had little time to show much of late tis all....... rut is coming:woot:
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was expecting from you, Stu! ;)

Nice to hear from you and thanks for (hopefully) clearing up the ID issue.

Looking forward to seeing all the images that you've been out getting (y)
 
wezza13 said:
Exactly what I was expecting from you, Stu! ;)

Nice to hear from you and thanks for (hopefully) clearing up the ID issue.

Looking forward to seeing all the images that you've been out getting (y)
Click to expand...
A ramble Wez,is what you were expecting,lmao.:D

OK serious head back on :Wez a quick note of apology, really I should have said cheers last night but was rushing and shaking my head at my inability with letters. So thank you good sir,(y)hopefully Laurence is sorted now. i'll try and get something up shortly buddy

thanks again

stu
 
@Stuart Philpott
What a reply, I felt as though you were sitting next me!
Very illuminating, you are both knowledgable and enthusiastic about your ducks, thank you for sharing. Next year I'll be seeing the owner of the lake where this duck resides and I'm sure, being a somewhat taciturn Frenchman, he will happily join in a discussion about his duck with gender identity issues!
 
Utterly welcome Laurence, although I'm not infallible I feel we are close. the silver mutation might also feature here,my real specialisation was calls,which come in almost every plumage pattern/mutation that a mallard derivitive can produce,but I don't know of silver rouen. Just as an aside Lauence the rouen has been about for yonks,I believe mentioned in the first poultry standard,alongside the aylsebury I think that was 1865 but might be wrong,which ever they are a long established breed!!

Yeah I like me ducks:),my little highlight in that job was hatch day,ahh buddy a couple of hundred day old ducklings of all colours in this sort of damn big upright fridge of an incubator is a sight to behold. They then got dumped into buckets to be moved to their rearing station.But the big thing and where the hilarity starts is if they hear one voice,to them that is mum calling,the consequence all run to mum a tidal wave of little fellas and trying to do that in utter silence will always stay with me it was utterly wonderful.

Good luck with more info i'd love to know what the French guy says.

I find it incredible how humans can breed not only differing colours but also the bewildering array of sizes of domestic breeds from the humble mallard....... little calls to be used as decoys bred small for ease of carriage to monsters like your pic for the table to out and out egg layers like the runners(a wine bottle on stilts) and khaki that Mrs Cambell bred from the runner. It's incredible, these mallard breeds can lay more eggs than anything (if I recollect correctly a kortlang khaki did 360 in a year) and also grow faster than anything else we have produced for food again all from a humble mallard

Some of these breeds are quite scarce now,,it's cool to see that so many folks now care about these old pure breeds,like wise with chucks and bigger livestock. There is a big picture at play with these old breeds,they may well contain genetic traits that might be incredibly useful in the future !!
There is much to be enthusiastic about;)
take care mate sorry about the rambles I can't help it:rolleyes:

Stu
 
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