eBay - am I being scammed?

This is shocking! I greatly sympathise, Stewart.

As a result of reading this thread I have transferred the remaining balance from PayPal to my bank account so that it is zero and then removed all credit cards and linked bank accounts. You have to do this first to be able to close your account, otherwise PayPal tells you there is an error and to "try again later" :mad:

I stopped using PayPal a while ago and prefer bank-to-bank transfers. I avoid eBay too!
 
Ironically, I bought a phone off eBay the other day as a relatively cheap (for a phone) replacement for one of mine that died. Turns out after a few days the microphone crashes a few hours after you turn the phone so you can't make calls. Turn off / on and you get about 2hrs before the mic crashes again.

Although I literally only said a few messages up I wouldn't claim months later on a 2nd hand item, I sort of feel a few days after delivery that the fault must have been on the phone in the first place.

I've messaged the buyer, he said it was ok for him and recommended a factory reset. Googling it's a known hardware fault. Anything I can do?

If not, I have mobile phone insurance through the bank I could claim on for a £50 excess.
 
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Stu Meech said:
Ironically, I bought a phone off eBay the other day as a relatively cheap (for a phone) replacement for one of mine that died. Turns out after a few days the microphone crashes a few hours after you turn the phone so you can't make calls. Turn off / on and you get about 2hrs before the mic crashes again.

Although I literally only said a few messages up I wouldn't claim months later on a 2nd hand item, I sort of feel a few days after delivery that the fault must have been on the phone in the first place.

I've messaged the buyer, he said it was ok for him and recommended a factory reset. Googling it's a known hardware fault. Anything I can do?

If not, I have mobile phone insurance through the bank I could claim on for a £50 excess.
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If you only bought it a few days ago then file a return. You're perfectly within your rights to do and I certainly would and have.
 
Stu Meech said:
Thanks. Any experience on what happens with private sellers who have a no returns policy?
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Yes. When you file the claim mark it as faulty goods which honestly represents the reason you're returning it. The seller needs to accept the return and issue you a returns label. If he refuses you'll need to wait a few days before asking eBay to decide. Because the goods are faulty eBay will decide in your favour and refund you. Either way you should get refunded without too much problem.
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
Yes. When you file the claim mark it as faulty goods which honestly represents the reason you're returning it. The seller needs to accept the return and issue you a returns label. If he refuses you'll need to wait a few days before asking eBay to decide. Because the goods are faulty eBay will decide in your favour and refund you. Either way you should get refunded without too much problem.
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Ok great, thanks for the advice. And sorry to Stewart for a slight thread hijack...
 
Trouble with e.bay is it started off as a online car boot sale site ,and has tried to turn itself into a amazon clone ,.tbh these e.bay imposed rules should not apply to private sellers only to companies ( mainly based in China) . I have a buying and selling 100% feedback of around 1500+ deals and in all that time have only had one rip off and that was for a 50p item .
Yes there are scammers out there but it’s still safer to sell there than via Facebook and bank transfer .i have also sold a couple of items on here one of them a large backpack that I sold at a very reduced price ,the buyer rejected it for a not really applicable reason and I refunded him ,i then listed it on e.bay and got £30 more than on here .
have also experienced problems when buying from online shops selling used ,the only one that shines above the rest is WEX who offer a 12 months warranty on used items. .
But coming back to the bay of E I certaintly wouldn’t be panicked by one deal gone sour and after reading the thread if I was the o.p and the partial refund closed the complaint I would get off the high horse and allow it .
 
There's unfortunately a fair amount of misinformation in the thread, so (based on too much time spent on forums like http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40):

1) eBay and PayPal are totally separate organisations, each with their own separate disputes processes.
2) A Buyer can raise separate claims through both eBay and PayPal for the same item.
3) PayPal gives a Buyer up to 180 days (yes, a full 6 months) in which to raise a claim. It's not unknown for scammers to wait until day 179, in the hope that the Seller won't notice.
4) Removing your money from PayPal won't help; nor will unlinking your cards or bank account. PayPal will automatically pass any debt on to their (allegedly very aggressive) debt collectors. Ignore the debt collectors and you could end up with (best case) a lot of aggro or (worst case) a CCJ against you.
5) Requesting a partial refund is a favourite scammer technique. Best way to deal with it is to ask for the item back for a full refund. Most scammers won't bother - but if they do, then the Seller is liable for the return postage.
6) As a Seller, a "no returns"policy is pretty pointless.A Buyer who wants to do a "change of mind" return will just invent a problem with the item and do a SNAD (Significantly Not As Described) claim, which means that the Seller has to accept the return and also pay the return postage.
7) While going to the Small Claims Court against a scammer is certainly possible - and isn't that difficult or costly if done online - actually getting the money back from the scammer is a much bigger challenge.
 
I would ask for return and give a full refund, swallow the associated costs whatever they turn out to be, and that may be a total loss but I'd be more satisfied the attempted scam had been clotched.
I could give a partial refund, that would be the most cost effective way to resolve it, but that's just helping a scammer to be successful and thus provides no deterant to trying it on in the first place.
 
the black fox said:
Yes there are scammers out there but it’s still safer to sell there than via Facebook and bank transfer.
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....Personally I wouldn't trust selling via Facebook but why do you think that eBay is safer than a bank transfer?
 
RedRobin said:
....Personally I wouldn't trust selling via Facebook but why do you think that eBay is safer than a bank transfer?
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If you get a dodgy payment via Paypal it’s a problem between you and Paypal and might cost you the transaction amount if you’re unlucky. If you get a dodgy payment into your bank account you could end up with a CIFAS fraud marker on your bank account and suddenly find all your bank accounts closed and any subsequent account you try and open for 6 years also being summarily closed when the new bank picks up on the CIFAS marker. Getting rid of a wrongly placed CIFAS marker can be an absolute nightmare as well.

For example:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5680800
 
Stu Meech said:
Ironically, I bought a phone off eBay the other day as a relatively cheap (for a phone) replacement for one of mine that died. Turns out after a few days the microphone crashes a few hours after you turn the phone so you can't make calls. Turn off / on and you get about 2hrs before the mic crashes again.

Although I literally only said a few messages up I wouldn't claim months later on a 2nd hand item, I sort of feel a few days after delivery that the fault must have been on the phone in the first place.

I've messaged the buyer, he said it was ok for him and recommended a factory reset. Googling it's a known hardware fault. Anything I can do?

If not, I have mobile phone insurance through the bank I could claim on for a £50 excess.
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Interesting that this is effectively the other side of the coin from the OP story. Always good to hear both sides.
 
jamesev said:
Interesting that this is effectively the other side of the coin from the OP story. Always good to hear both sides.
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Yes very true. I've still not fully decided what to do (although I imagine I will at least raise the process to give me options later) but given the phone suffers from a known hardware issue I feel it was like that when I got it. I'm not interested in scamming the chap as I really do want this phone - to work 100% properly mind.
 
StewartR said:
On 3rd December last year I sold an item of audio equipment on eBay. It's essentially a CD player / amplifier / had disk unit in one box and I sold it for a bit over £200. The buyer has a feedback score of over 900 with 100% positive.

On 2nd February I received a notification from eBay that the buyer has requested to return the item. The message from the buyer says: "This item is faulty, you have sold me goods under false statement. The disk has faults and keeps rejecting my music then has to go through a start up to fix the problems! Nit acceptable when I ve spent so much money on it! A partial refund will be acceptable"

I'm suspicious. The unit was working fine when I sold it, 3 months ago. And if the hard disk is faulty, why on earth would the buyer accept a partial refund? I think this is a scam. I think there's nothing wrong with it, and the buyer just wants a bit of money out of me.

What are my options? I'm worried that eBay has a reputation for siding with the buyer, however unreasonable they're being.
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I had someone message me 3 weeks after a phone I sold saying it didn't work and they wanted a refund. I told them to go through the correct procedure. Never heard from them again.

I would get on the phone to ebay and tell them what's happening and where do you stand on it.
 
Dave1 said:
If you get a dodgy payment via Paypal it’s a problem between you and Paypal and might cost you the transaction amount if you’re unlucky. If you get a dodgy payment into your bank account you could end up with a CIFAS fraud marker on your bank account and suddenly find all your bank accounts closed and any subsequent account you try and open for 6 years also being summarily closed when the new bank picks up on the CIFAS marker. Getting rid of a wrongly placed CIFAS marker can be an absolute nightmare as well.

For example:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5680800
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....Whereas I am grateful for you pointing out a worst case scenario when receiving money by bank transfer, your linked example is not a set of circumstances which I am at all likely to find myself in - Unless Talk Photography's Classifieds are full of either dodgy or very naive people! Barclays anyway have a very poor reputation for their customer service and I shall discuss the subject with my banker. I rarely sell anything and prefer, according to what it is, to sell for hard cash, part exchange with a retailer, or send something to an auction house. I never use eBay to buy or sell as I consider the risks to be too high.

Back on topic, it will be very interesting to see what happens following Stewart's counter complaint....
 
I use ebay quite a lot but not for higher value stuff abymore, there is usually an alternative place but I sometimes see where ebay is the only choice.
 
Stu Meech said:
Yes very true. I've still not fully decided what to do (although I imagine I will at least raise the process to give me options later) but given the phone suffers from a known hardware issue I feel it was like that when I got it. I'm not interested in scamming the chap as I really do want this phone - to work 100% properly mind.
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I’m not suggesting you are interested in scamming just that the two sides show an instance of narration of the seller claiming the goods were in working order upon dispatch, and an instance of narration of the buyer claiming goods faulty upon receipt.
 
jamesev said:
I’m not suggesting you are interested in scamming just that the two sides show an instance of narration of the seller claiming the goods were in working order upon dispatch, and an instance of narration of the buyer claiming goods faulty upon receipt.
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Sorry, I wasn't insinuating that from my post - more a case of badly worded on my part [emoji2] anyway going to report it today so be interested to see what happens.
 
Contax said:
Ignore the debt collectors and you could end up with (best case) a lot of aggro or (worst case) a CCJ against you.
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You can defend CCJ's. Its nearly as easy as issuing them. I wouldn't ignore them though
 
RedRobin said:
....Whereas I am grateful for you pointing out a worst case scenario when receiving money by bank transfer, your linked example is not a set of circumstances which I am at all likely to find myself in - Unless Talk Photography's Classifieds are full of either dodgy or very naive people!
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Umm, where was TP classified mentioned in your post I replied to? you mentioned buying from Facebook and bank transfer, not TP...
 
Dave1 said:
Umm, where was TP classified mentioned in your post I replied to? you mentioned buying from Facebook and bank transfer, not TP...
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....I mentioned TP Classified because it's one of the few places I receive any payments via bank transfer and I was replying to your warnings about bank transfers.
 
RedRobin said:
....I mentioned TP Classified because it's one of the few places I receive any payments via bank transfer and I was replying to your warnings about bank transfers.
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So you missed the fact you were discussing “selling via Facebook” in the post I replied to?

I wonder if TP has been used as a red herring before? :whistle:
 
Dave1 said:
So you missed the fact you were discussing “selling via Facebook” in the post I replied to?

I wonder if TP has been used as a red herring before? :whistle:
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....I think you ought re read the posts more carefully and stop being silly by being so pedantic and wasting both yours and my time.
 
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RedRobin said:
....I think you ought re read the posts more carefully and stop being silly by being so pedantic and wasting both yours and my time.
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???

Here’s your entire post, could you highlight where you refer to TP classifieds? maybe then I could see where I have failed to read the post carefully enough.


RedRobin said:
....Personally I wouldn't trust selling via Facebook but why do you think that eBay is safer than a bank transfer?
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Strangely you also seem to be saying you think it’s safer to accept BT than “eBay” (I presume you actually mean Paypal) while only referencing Facebook selling.

Maybe I just don’t read the non-existent words between the lines all that well...
 
For some more expensive items, I have now started selling them as 'cash on collection' only. Limits the number of potential buyers but also cuts out PayPal and the main mechanism for either eBay or PayPal to take my money. If the item is good enough, then there is a buyer. I haven't had to reduce prices to compensate for this method either.
 
This is an all too common occurrence on eBay just now. I have started emailing all my buyers once they receive an item to confirm in writing (positive feedback means nothing) that they are completely happy with the item and I do it every day until they confirm they are.
I’ve heard of a few photographers who sold bodies and lenses only to have them returned a couple of weeks later with up to 5k added to the shutter count.
Look at it this way. If I had s job on and needed to hire a pro body and lenses for a couple of weeks it could cost 2 or 3k or I could just buy off eBay, use them for the jobs and then return them saying they are not as described for the cost of the post at say £30.
So instead of paying a couple of grand in hire fees it’s only cost me £30 quid each way for post.
 
Bigfungun said:
This is an all too common occurrence on eBay just now. I have started emailing all my buyers once they receive an item to confirm in writing (positive feedback means nothing) that they are completely happy with the item and I do it every day until they confirm they are.
I’ve heard of a few photographers who sold bodies and lenses only to have them returned a couple of weeks later with up to 5k added to the shutter count.
Look at it this way. If I had s job on and needed to hire a pro body and lenses for a couple of weeks it could cost 2 or 3k or I could just buy off eBay, use them for the jobs and then return them saying they are not as described for the cost of the post at say £30.
So instead of paying a couple of grand in hire fees it’s only cost me £30 quid each way for post.
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used to do that with Argos many years ago, called it Argos Rentals.

buy a digital camera take it on holiday and then return it, you used to have 28 days no quibble return policy.
once bought a video camera to film some rally stages and just took it back.
 
Mr Bump said:
used to do that with Argos many years ago, called it Argos Rentals.

buy a digital camera take it on holiday and then return it, you used to have 28 days no quibble return policy.
once bought a video camera to film some rally stages and just took it back.
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It’s expanding into everything now from the “interest free pay day loan scam” to the downright theft as they know it’s so bloody hard to prove and the police don’t particularly give a damn as it happens so often now.
 
Mr Bump said:
used to do that with Argos many years ago, called it Argos Rentals.

buy a digital camera take it on holiday and then return it, you used to have 28 days no quibble return policy.
once bought a video camera to film some rally stages and just took it back.
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....Your words appear to admit that you set out with the premeditated intention to defraud Argos (in this case) of sales. Are you proud of such behaviour?
 
RedRobin said:
....Your words appear to admit that you set out with the premeditated intention to defraud Argos (in this case) of sales. Are you proud of such behaviour?
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ah well, i'm over it are you?
 
Just wrong to do that? It's one step short of theft IMO. Things like that are one factor in UK price hikes.
 
Defiance said:
For some more expensive items, I have now started selling them as 'cash on collection' only. Limits the number of potential buyers but also cuts out PayPal and the main mechanism for either eBay or PayPal to take my money.
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The problem is that you have to accept PayPal as a payment method when you sell on eBay, regardless of what you put in your listing, and there's no way of preventing buyers from paying by PayPal. Sure, you can refund them, but you risk losing the sale, getting negative feedback and possibly a non-performing seller strike on your account.

(As an aside, you should never accept PayPal for a Collected item - you would have no tracked method to defend against an Item Not Received (INR) claim. There's good information about this scam here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=65282064#post65282064)

Bigfungun said:
I have started emailing all my buyers once they receive an item to confirm in writing (positive feedback means nothing) that they are completely happy with the item and I do it every day until they confirm they are.
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If an eBay seller did this to me, I'd leave them negative feedback, and report them to eBay for harassment. It also would do nothing whatsoever to defend yourself against a SNAD (Significantly Not As Described) claim - the buyer could just say that the item appeared to be OK at the time they sent you the email, but the defect didn't present itself until some time afterwards.

Bigfungun said:
Look at it this way. If I had s job on and needed to hire a pro body and lenses for a couple of weeks it could cost 2 or 3k or I could just buy off eBay, use them for the jobs and then return them saying they are not as described for the cost of the post at say £30.
So instead of paying a couple of grand in hire fees it’s only cost me £30 quid each way for post.
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It wouldn't cost you any postage - for a SNAD claim, the Seller will have to reimburse the postage in both directions. And you would have 180 days to use the equipment, not just a couple of weeks.
 
I have just had a simalar issue with a iphone i sold ,got a email from buyer saying faulty etc ....Now i was lucky as i took photos and took a small video of the phone actualy working ,plus i had proof that my icloud account had been deleted just hours prior to sending first class recorded basicaly the phone was working fine ...i refused to pay the buyer back as it was obvious when it came back that it had been tampered with,paypal sided with the buyer and took my money,now i was not happy and argued the case and was about to give up until i found out that the logic board had been removed and replaced with another one ,i had some help from the IT guy at work...After phoning paypal i gave them my new evidence and reversed the payment ...i am not as confident anymore in selling goods via ebay ....
 
Contax said:
The problem is that you have to accept PayPal as a payment method when you sell on eBay, regardless of what you put in your listing, and there's no way of preventing buyers from paying by PayPal. Sure, you can refund them, but you risk losing the sale, getting negative feedback and possibly a non-performing seller strike on your account.

(As an aside, you should never accept PayPal for a Collected item - you would have no tracked method to defend against an Item Not Received (INR) claim. There's good information about this scam here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=65282064#post65282064)
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You are correct that you have to 'accept' PayPal, although I make it extremely clear in the listing - large bold red letters - that the sale is cash on collection only. If anyone still pays by PayPal, then they get refunded (and I use the buyer changed their mind option to avoid the non-performing seller strike and risk the negative). It's very rare that a buyer uses PayPal or has a problem with a quick refund. I wouldn't accept PayPal for the reason you state, no tracked method of delivery.

I would rather take the above minor risk than be hundreds of pounds out to a scammer.
 
Now I’ve come up with an issue. During this thread l, I removed all my camera stuff from eBay. One reason was because of this thread & quite rightly so, I’ll never sell anything of value on there again. But the other reason, I forgot to put UK buyers only and was being bombarded with bids from around the world. I tried changing this but it said ‘this can’t be changed, you have to end the item’. Which I did.

Now this morning PayPal have taken £88 from my PayPal because of ending the items early. These items were also listed under a maximum seller fee of £1. Not sure how it works out like this but I’m pretty annoyed.
 
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