Critique Epic Sky.

Dale.

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Dale.
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Awesome sunset last night at Troon, but I do feel I could've done a lot better, mainly with the processing as I don't think I can blame a 5D, I think I could do more with RAW files out of it. I'm a little rusty when it comes to landscapes recently as been spending alot of time in the hide.

Or maybe it's just the light.

Comments welcome, as always.

tp.jpg
 
In all honesty the sky isn’t epic - your title raises expectations which aren’t met, which is actually unfair on the shot as it’s pretty nice though perhaps lacks a clear composition. It’s a peaceful and calming image which is no bad thing. The processing is tastefully done, why are you unhappy with it?
 
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In all honesty the sky isn’t epic - your title raises expectations which aren’t met, which is actually unfair on the shot as it’s pretty nice though perhaps lacks a clear composition. It’s a peaceful and calming image which is no bad thing. The processing is tastefully done, why are you unhappy with it?


Thank you for the comment, I appreciate that. (y)

Composition is the one thing that I couldn't get right last night. It should be easy there but I struggled. You hit the nail on the head when you say the sky isn't epic but being there, it was, but my processing hasn't brought it out. I blame myself and my processing skills for that.

I find Canon RAW files very flat straight out of the camera and I'm not getting the best out of them.

I am happy with the image but I do think it could be better.
 
Biggest issue with the image is the lack of foreground. Shooting that wide and mostly sky, it really does need to be epic to pull it off imo. Plenty rocks there, surely something could have been used to tie it all in?

As above, tastefully edited but you had a limited amount to work with to begin.
 
Biggest issue with the image is the lack of foreground. Shooting that wide and mostly sky, it really does need to be epic to pull it off imo. Plenty rocks there, surely something could have been used to tie it all in?

As above, tastefully edited but you had a limited amount to work with to begin.


Thanks for that.

Being there, the sky was lovely, I don't think I've brought that out.

Title was going to be ' Epic Sky, (but I failed)', thanks for the reassuring crit. :)
 
Thanks for that.

Being there, the sky was lovely, I don't think I've brought that out.

Title was going to be ' Epic Sky, (but I failed)', thanks for the reassuring crit. :)

You’re being hard on yourself. I don’t think there’s any more you can do unless you want to cross from realistic to surreal processing. Without direct light on the scene or dramatic colours in the sky there’s only so much you can do before it starts to look fake. Be happy with this but try working the composition harder for the next one
 
The sky is the polar opposite to epic personally. It's the grey cloud I always dread and refuse to photograph. It's grey to dark blue depending on white balance and nothing is going to change it. There are better days that bring truly awesome sky.

I would also like to suggest the image needs a more dramatic and closer foreground. Its done from a fair distance and appears quite insignificant.
 
Awesome replies, thank you.

The impression I'm getting it's more to do with conditions and composition, not so much processing.
 
I’m going to go against the grain here.

It doesn’t need more foreground - it needs none. A collection of boring random little rocks or some slightly blurred seaweed (due to it moving in the sea during exposure - a classic Scottish coastal issue) doesn’t make a good picture.

The skies not hopeless but nor is it epic.

What’s the subject here - the dark messy shore or the distant view. It’s the latter so why not go with that. I’d have got done to the shore and framed more simply. Unless the foreground is genuinely interesting or a real cohesive part of the whole picture I just skip it. You can see it’s a boring bit of beach - just lose it

The foreground does nothing here. It’s not adding depth and unless it adds some directionality to the frame I’d skip it and get to the shore edge and frame the sea and sky alone. Do that on a day with a more interesting sky and you’ll have a picture. Or find a beach with wet sands and get 2 for the price of one with a reflection:)
 
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I’m going to go against the grain here.

It doesn’t need more foreground - it needs none. A collection of boring random little rocks or some slightly blurred seaweed (due to it moving in the sea during exposure - a classic Scottish coastal issue) doesn’t make a good picture.

The skies not hopeless but nor is it epic.

What’s the subject here - the dark messy shore or the distant view. It’s the latter so why not go with that. I’d have got done to the shore and framed more simply. Unless the foreground is genuinely interesting or a real cohesive part of the whole picture I just skip it. You can see it’s a boring bit of beach - just lose it

The foreground does nothing here. It’s not adding depth and unless it adds some directionality to the frame I’d skip it and get to the shore edge and frame the sea and sky alone. Do that on a day with a more interesting sky and you’ll have a picture. Or find a beach with wet sands and get 2 for the price of one with a reflection:)


Cheers Steve.

I am grateful for the opinion and advice. I had considered the reflection option, you'll remember the ones from a few years ago and that is just down the road from where I took this one, that spot and the light that night were very good to me. Maybe next time but I want to work the compositions here more too.

That night was with my Fuji and this one was the 5Div, which got me thinking about the Canon raw files being so flat. It seems from the comments here that is mainly because of the conditions, composition too. In fairness, the Fuji images were during a truely epic sky.

I do have one or two that just concentrate on distant Arran and the sky, I will look at those in a bit. It is one of the ideas I'd set out to with in mind and did attempt, bear with me on that. I'm not so keen on all that texture on the water though, it was very windy last night but that composition is worth a revisit, now you mention it.
 
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I think that you have done as much as was possible to make that shot appeal. Unfortunately, what is needed was not in your power to provide - better lighting to make the picture sparkle somewhat.
 
You had a nice sky to work with getting down to the waters edge and working shutter speeds to get something nice out of the water and some rock shapes was needed in my opinion.
I agree with Steve @SFTPhotography it needs a foreground rock pools can work too but rock shapes or switch to a long lens and capture the pastel shades of the distant hills
on the horizon
 
Thanks for the replies, really appreciating the opinions.

I'm thinking of returning here on the weekend, it's not a million miles away, more like 20 minutes. :)
 
Thanks for the replies, really appreciating the opinions.

I'm thinking of returning here on the weekend, it's not a million miles away, more like 20 minutes. :)
Well go tonight and tomorrow as the sea changes all the time.
 
Dale, what inspired to to take the photograph? Rhetorical. Maybe holding on to that feeling while working with the image post-processing will help produce a more satisfying image. Personally, I like the original composition over the cropped version. This is just my preference; here are a few points why.

- The original image feel more open, the second version feels visually choked.
- The original image has nice movement: the upper left clouds invite you in and leads you through a zig-zag to the bottom left, then guides back up by the shore rocks into the image. The viewer's eye is invited to explore the entire image by your composition of elements. I think this is really nice.
- The second version causes the viewer's eye to move across the top of the image and out of the upper right side without inviting them to stay and look around.

Only referring to the original image in comments for here on:
- The streaking clouds radiate upward with energy yet inspire the viewer to follow them back into the image. (radial composition supported by the strong opposing visual direction of the lower jetting rocks) This is somewhat like a visual reverberation between the clouds and the shoreline stimulating curiosity.
- Perhaps the element that seems to be missing is already there; the distant mountains. The radial composition, strong horizon line broken by the mountains, delicate mountain colors (seen more in the second version), and the lower third centering of the mountains is, in my opinion, the visual resting point. This image has a subtle quality that could be spoiled if overdone.
- Keeping the upper left of the image darker, much like the original, is important to visually balance the asymmetry of the rocks at the lower left and warmer colors on the left.

Sometime when I get stuck and begin to over think post-processing, I go back to the basics of composition and evaluate each one of these separately to gain a better understanding of how each impacts the image: while always trying to keep the original feeling that inspired me to make the image. "Shape, form, line, value, texture, and pattern"

For example, the shore line contains the strongest of all of these, the water next, then the clouds/sky. "How does this impace the viewer?" The patterned lines of the clouds are a result of value where the line of the shore rocks are sharper and cause strong direction. The horizon line is the strongest line in the image. The delicate line of the distant mountains is the "busiest" line. Our eye is naturally drawn to busier areas and in this case, the mountian line illustrates its back lit shape further reinforcing it as a point of interest.

For me, the more I took the time to practice this approach, the easier it was for me to make decisions while shooting because the concepts learned from post-processing became part of my thought process while taking the image.

Lastly, and this is just my preference, how the final image feels is more important that any other aspect including technical; which I will even ignore and look past to enjoy it. Your original image has a nice feeling. Its lack of a strong point of interest, so many people desire to feel satisfied, may be what makes this image work. Much of Japanese art composition uses large areas as strong composition elements intended to appreciate grandeur without a particular overbearing visual element.

Here is a link to one of my photographs that does not have a strong apparent visual element if you are interested: http://edwardwald.com/General-Photograph-Collection.php?f=Dancing-Cotton

Best of luck!
 
Dale, what inspired to to take the photograph? Rhetorical. Maybe holding on to that feeling while working with the image post-processing will help produce a more satisfying image. Personally, I like the original composition over the cropped version. This is just my preference; here are a few points why.

- The original image feel more open, the second version feels visually choked.
- The original image has nice movement: the upper left clouds invite you in and leads you through a zig-zag to the bottom left, then guides back up by the shore rocks into the image. The viewer's eye is invited to explore the entire image by your composition of elements. I think this is really nice.
- The second version causes the viewer's eye to move across the top of the image and out of the upper right side without inviting them to stay and look around.

Only referring to the original image in comments for here on:
- The streaking clouds radiate upward with energy yet inspire the viewer to follow them back into the image. (radial composition supported by the strong opposing visual direction of the lower jetting rocks) This is somewhat like a visual reverberation between the clouds and the shoreline stimulating curiosity.
- Perhaps the element that seems to be missing is already there; the distant mountains. The radial composition, strong horizon line broken by the mountains, delicate mountain colors (seen more in the second version), and the lower third centering of the mountains is, in my opinion, the visual resting point. This image has a subtle quality that could be spoiled if overdone.
- Keeping the upper left of the image darker, much like the original, is important to visually balance the asymmetry of the rocks at the lower left and warmer colors on the left.

Sometime when I get stuck and begin to over think post-processing, I go back to the basics of composition and evaluate each one of these separately to gain a better understanding of how each impacts the image: while always trying to keep the original feeling that inspired me to make the image. "Shape, form, line, value, texture, and pattern"

For example, the shore line contains the strongest of all of these, the water next, then the clouds/sky. "How does this impace the viewer?" The patterned lines of the clouds are a result of value where the line of the shore rocks are sharper and cause strong direction. The horizon line is the strongest line in the image. The delicate line of the distant mountains is the "busiest" line. Our eye is naturally drawn to busier areas and in this case, the mountian line illustrates its back lit shape further reinforcing it as a point of interest.

For me, the more I took the time to practice this approach, the easier it was for me to make decisions while shooting because the concepts learned from post-processing became part of my thought process while taking the image.

Lastly, and this is just my preference, how the final image feels is more important that any other aspect including technical; which I will even ignore and look past to enjoy it. Your original image has a nice feeling. Its lack of a strong point of interest, so many people desire to feel satisfied, may be what makes this image work. Much of Japanese art composition uses large areas as strong composition elements intended to appreciate grandeur without a particular overbearing visual element.

Here is a link to one of my photographs that does not have a strong apparent visual element if you are interested: http://edwardwald.com/General-Photograph-Collection.php?f=Dancing-Cotton

Best of luck!


That's some reply and very interesting, thanks so much for taking the time. (y) I'd looked for a composition for some time when I got there, the sunset was a few hours away so I had plenty of time. I did find one but I couldn't bring it out, it was a channel in the rocks but it ended up being too dark, so I was forced into this composition and others a bit like it too as the sunset kicked off. My main interest was the sky though, to the eye, it was very nice and my pic and processing doesn't do it justice. It needed a foreground too and this is what I went with. I'm watching the weather and tides (as the rocks are underwater twice a day) now and planning my return. I'd like the water to be calmer too.

One idea I have is to use a longer lens and compress the landscape and bring the hills (which are Arran) more into play. It's a promising spot with loads of potential.


@alfbranch, the kingfishers did stand me up. ;)
 
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