Europe tour advice

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peter
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Ok this may sound ambitious and quite a lot to fit in but I have my reasons.
My Mrs has MS and has had it for quite a few years and is obviously not getting any better.
She has never been abroad and is terrified of flying + we have a couple of chihuahuas she would never leave behind.
We enjoy caravan holidays and have toured a few places around England, Scotland and Wales.
So a caravan tour in Europe it is.
I asked her what she would like and she said to see Europe so 12 countries in 35 days now edited and less thanks to advice :) .
We have picked out a basic route I think I maybe need to add a hour on to each of the travel days.
What I am after is am I spending too much/little time anywhere is there anywhere I could improve it and anything suggested to see enroute etc.
We are not going till 2023 so I can save up lol. as I have worked out tunnels, fuel, taxes, tolls etc. And campsites will cost me approximately £3200 so I have budgeted £4000 to allow for unforeseen etc and will probably want £6000 spending money so we can really enjoy ourselves. This is to be the theoretical trip of a lifetime for her.
Attached is my NEW EDITED ROUTE WITH FLEX outline route for now.
holiday reworked.JPG
 
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Looks like a great trip. The only thing is I would possibly factor in a few rest days. Every day seems to be a day somewhere or travel and certainly on anything over 3 hours you would probably want to factor in break/lunch or something. Although it depends on the stuff you will be doing - i.e. what is your plan in Budapest or Zagreb. Will you want the odd day or two at a site just to sit and relax and even just be in the local area?

Are you motorhoming or caravanning - yours or hire?
 
If you can go in June or September ACSI membership could save you money on campsite fees. Their site guides are probably worth considering even if you go at peak time.

Also if you have a satnav that allows bulk POIs then take a look at

We use an iPad Mini with GPS and Copilot which provides routing for caravans and motorhomes and found Archies very useful.
 
Looks like a great trip. The only thing is I would possibly factor in a few rest days. Every day seems to be a day somewhere or travel and certainly on anything over 3 hours you would probably want to factor in break/lunch or something. Although it depends on the stuff you will be doing - i.e. what is your plan in Budapest or Zagreb. Will you want the odd day or two at a site just to sit and relax and even just be in the local area?

Are you motorhoming or caravanning - yours or hire?
Caravan and ours.
there is no specific plan to do at any of the cities.
Obviously Pisa see the tower, Venice go in a gondola, Prague see st Charles bridge etc.
I have never been 1 for resting lol a hour or 2 and I’m good. :)
 
If you can go in June or September ACSI membership could save you money on campsite fees. Their site guides are probably worth considering even if you go at peak time.

Also if you have a satnav that allows bulk POIs then take a look at

We use an iPad Mini with GPS and Copilot which provides routing for caravans and motorhomes and found Archies very useful.
I had debated using my phone or iPad as a satnav.
Not quite sure to be honest at the moment.
I will check out your link thanks.
 
looks great but to me way to crowded for time i would be adding in at least 10 more days to recharge amidst all that
I agree totally, especially given that your wife has MS. Time to chill, wander, find a little bar for lunch and just deviate from a schedule is so much part of what travel should be, and what the best memories will be made of.
As for your route, no Spain? Driving inland in Spain is one of the best things I've ever done, so might be with looking into.
Finally, I'm very envious, enjoy the planning and have a wonderful time when you go!
 
Don't forget, you cannot take your car into Venice as such, it is very restricted. The Brussels ring road is a nightmare and I think a day in Bruges would be more pleasant and calmer.

 
Looks like a great trip to me. I think looking at the plan you've come up with I think you're being optimistic on the drive times. The other thing you'll want to check out is the rules around moving dogs from country to country. Now that pet passports are no longer valid you need an AHC to move them. its nothing like as easy as a pet passport (where all you had to do was have a rabies vaccination and worm 5 days before you entered some EU countries). Have a look at the new rules, I've decided its no longer worth travelling with mine.

If you do travel with them I'd use the tunnel. You stay in the car with the dogs rather than a ferry where you leave them for the crossing. Eurotunnel are also pretty well setup for dogs at either end
 
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Its very busy, and those driving times are very optimistic given you are towing and no allowances for stopping of, or finding places to park whilst towing - trying to park a caravan in Hallstadt will be very stressful

Personally I'd struggle to spend a day in Pisa, its more like a couple of hours and a quick coffee, but you could certainly spend time in Lucca - but why not go

Milan - Florence - 2.5 hours, pitch up, go visit Pisa for the rest of the day
Next Day spend in Florence
Following Day Florence-Venice

I'd slow down the whole experience a bit, visit a few less tourist hotspots, and add in some less busy locations - perhaps drop one of two of cities to get a more pleasant less crowded overall experience.
 
Its very busy, and those driving times are very optimistic given you are towing and no allowances for stopping of, or finding places to park whilst towing - trying to park a caravan in Hallstadt will be very stressful

Personally I'd struggle to spend a day in Pisa, its more like a couple of hours and a quick coffee, but you could certainly spend time in Lucca - but why not go

Milan - Florence - 2.5 hours, pitch up, go visit Pisa for the rest of the day
Next Day spend in Florence
Following Day Florence-Venice

I'd slow down the whole experience a bit, visit a few less tourist hotspots, and add in some less busy locations - perhaps drop one of two of cities to get a more pleasant less crowded overall experience.
See this is the sort of advice I really need much appreciated :)
 
Looks like a great trip to me. I think looking at the plan you've come up with I think you're being optimistic on the drive times. The other thing you'll want to check out is the rules around moving dogs from country to country. Now that pet passports are no longer valid you need an AHC to move them. its nothing like as easy as a pet passport (where all you had to do was have a rabies vaccination and worm 5 days before you entered some EU countries). Have a look at the new rules, I've decided its no longer worth travelling with mine.

If you do travel with them I'd use the tunnel. You stay in the car with the dogs rather than a ferry where you leave them for the crossing. Eurotunnel are also pretty well setup for dogs at either end
Yes definitely going to do the tunnels.
I did realise I was optimistic so did say I thought maybe a extra hour each day on the drive times.
I have no problem driving distances as frequently drive 200 + miles each way due to my other hobby.
Will look more into the dogs we have 4 but we’re going to take 2 as they are really attached dogs.
 
Don't forget, you cannot take your car into Venice as such, it is very restricted. The Brussels ring road is a nightmare and I think a day in Bruges would be more pleasant and calmer.

Thanks yes we’re going to park up at the car park and cross over to Venice itself.
Will look into bruge instead thanks :)
 
I agree totally, especially given that your wife has MS. Time to chill, wander, find a little bar for lunch and just deviate from a schedule is so much part of what travel should be, and what the best memories will be made of.
As for your route, no Spain? Driving inland in Spain is one of the best things I've ever done, so might be with looking into.
Finally, I'm very envious, enjoy the planning and have a wonderful time when you go!
Will have a look into Spain on the map tonight and see how it would work out. :)
 
We've done a lot of touring in Europe, and I'm not going to sugarcoat this, your itinerary sounds like the holiday from hell to me. I realise this is a very personal opinion, but it seems that half your time is going to be spent on motorways. I have yet to come across an enjoyable motorway. It sounds exhausting. Trudging around European cities and tourist traps in August is also hot, crowded and expensive, although I concede I have less tolerance than most and I'm not a great culture vulture. Perhaps this is your thing. Honestly, almost any other time of year would be better, although I favour May/June. Sorry if I'm being a wet blanket.
 
Will have a look into Spain on the map tonight and see how it would work out. :)
It is a lovely country, so easy to travel in and around, with wonderful people, attitudes, food and climate although given when you are thinking of going it might be getting a bit hot. Language is no problem either if you are prepared to try 3 words or so. Communication on a real level - last time I drove up from the south I had a friend with me who had never traveled, didn't speak a word except for 'Si and Cerveza. He had an utter blast, ended up not allowing me to use my slightly more advanced language skills and it was the best trip I ever had. Empty back roads, the warmest of people and so often we were taken into peoples houses to try their special wine/sausage(as in Chorizo) and even to eat with them on a couple of occasions. We drove for maybe 3 hours a day, then spent afternoons people watching, being watched, and enjoying life. Beats any amount of tourist sights, most of which you can see better on the TV..
A quick edit to add that May and June would be a much nicer time to travel - don't forget that after covid the entire world will want to get away so summer will be manic..
 
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See this is the sort of advice I really need much appreciated :)

Re your Italy leg - do you really need to go to Milan??

I would consider going from Chamonix to nearby Florence (perhaps somewhere like Montecatini Terme which will be nice and quiet then spending the following 3 days using as a base before going onto Venice, This then allows a much more relaxed set of 3 days. Those days could be used for

Visit to Florence, Visit to Pisa (if you must - it really will be disappointing) but you could combine with Lucca, but better might be San Gimignano or the excellent off the beaten track Piaggio Museum in Pontedera, or Sienna if you really want to do lots of driving.

You could do the same in Austria, perhaps skip Innsbruck and add a couple more days near Salzburg, plenty to do and see (especially with the lakes to the West) and its only a short hop to Munich your next destination.

Doing this would give a couple of longer breaks, with less pitching/de-pitching and towing involved.
 
I'm not sure if you already own a caravan but this kind of tour looks more suited to a Motorhome.
To me this looks madness (sorry). One of the benefits of a caravan is that you can park up and use the car for exploring the local area at your leisure.
Also, have you considered how to travel to these centres once parked up? Getting into foreign cities easily may not be possible form the caravan site.
Further, you are doing this at the peak of the continental holiday season. Everything closes for august and they all hit the motorway south.
We once flew to Milan in August and drove to our holiday rental near Florence. The Italian m'way was challenging and very tiring.

I hope I'm not being too negative. It's great that you plan to do this. IMO just don't be so ambitious.
 
We have toured parts of Europe in a motorhome over the last 16 years but have never attempted anything so ambitious with so many places to visit. However I can understand why you want to do such a grand tour.

Our very first trip to mainland Europe in the motorhome was to Denmark and my wife had planned a lighting tour round the whole of Denmark (not a big country) in two weeks. After 3-4 days following her route plan I called a halt as it seemed all I was doing was driving...... we got off to a bad start on day 1 with roadworks on the motorways from the Netherlands, through Germany almost to the Danish border.

I halved the number of places we were to visit which allowed us far more time to enjoy the country. It was a lot less stressful.

Since then , my general rule when touring with the motorhome is to limit my driving to a maximum of 300-400 miles every other day, the exception being when travelling from the ferry terminal in Ijmuiden or Rotterdam to Italy when I might allow myself two or even three consecutive days driving.

I try to avoid cities, but my wife likes to visit them. We usually use local trains or buses rather than try to park the motorhome in a city. In the Black Forest we were given free train passes, in Innsbruck we were issued with free bus passes.
 
Ok thank you all for your comments I have read them and it has sunk in and I think you are all right.
so I will rework it and I am open to suggestions.
there is some places that are firm on the list so have to be fit in.
time wise of the visit August is just what works best for us really.
places on must list are
Paris literally just as she would like to see the Eiffel tower. and its not a bad stop point after the drive out of the Uk.
Chamonix is a must as I would like to spend some time round there myself
Pisa is a must as she would like to see the leaning tower so i like @Mr Perceptive 's suggestion to bypass Milan and spend time down near Florence and Pisa maybe a couple of days
Venice and Burano is a must. not really anywhere else for a Gondola.
Plitvice is a must as we both would really like to see it.
Vienna is a must as the Mrs wants to go there
Prague i would like to see St Charles bridge is it feasible as a long day trip from Venice or Salzburg ?
Salzburg erm she is a sound of music fan not worth living if we don't go there.
and seeing Neuschwanstein castle is a must for her.
then anything after that is just to get back to the uk.
 
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We have toured parts of Europe in a motorhome over the last 16 years but have never attempted anything so ambitious with so many places to visit. However I can understand why you want to do such a grand tour.

Our very first trip to mainland Europe in the motorhome was to Denmark and my wife had planned a lighting tour round the whole of Denmark (not a big country) in two weeks. After 3-4 days following her route plan I called a halt as it seemed all I was doing was driving...... we got off to a bad start on day 1 with roadworks on the motorways from the Netherlands, through Germany almost to the Danish border.

I halved the number of places we were to visit which allowed us far more time to enjoy the country. It was a lot less stressful.

Since then , my general rule when touring with the motorhome is to limit my driving to a maximum of 300-400 miles every other day, the exception being when travelling from the ferry terminal in Ijmuiden or Rotterdam to Italy when I might allow myself two or even three consecutive days driving.

I try to avoid cities, but my wife likes to visit them. We usually use local trains or buses rather than try to park the motorhome in a city. In the Black Forest we were given free train passes, in Innsbruck we were issued with free bus passes.
would you recommend stopping at Innsbruck or more a day trip to it :)
I just need to work out a base not too far from Neuschwanstein castle I think.
or are both doable as day trips from Salzburg.?
 
Forgive me but I really dont understand what you’d both get out of this? If you’re not stopping to look at the sights you’d be spending a huge amount of time and money just looking at foreign motorway traffic and not much else. You might as well drive round the M25 for five weeks.

I’d either cut the schedule down drastically and see more of fewer countries or maybe do a Med cruise stopping at various places? Your budget of £10k would get you a really nice cruise (with change), you’d cut out practically all of the driving and most importantly you’d be able to relax instead of concentrating on driving.

As someone else has said, you can’t get into Venice with a caravan. Save up for a gondola ride too, it’s hideously expensive!
 
Forgive me but I really dont understand what you’d both get out of this? If you’re not stopping to look at the sights you’d be spending a huge amount of time and money just looking at foreign motorway traffic and not much else. You might as well drive round the M25 for five weeks.

I’d either cut the schedule down drastically and see more of fewer countries or maybe do a Med cruise stopping at various places? Your budget of £10k would get you a really nice cruise (with change), you’d cut out practically all of the driving and most importantly you’d be able to relax instead of concentrating on driving.

As someone else has said, you can’t get into Venice with a caravan. Save up for a gondola ride too, it’s hideously expensive!
Hi thankyou for your comments.
2 posts up I have accepted its too much and cut lots out Venice there is a couple of campsites nearby.
I believe a gondola is about £80-£100 for a 1/2 trip ?
 
ok everyone thanks again I have edited my list removed sections that were just in for the sake of being in.

Paris is just a convenient stop off and to see the tower.
I need to get home and cant drive all that way in a day so happy for suggestion of stop off on the way home maybe for a couple of days etc.
also is there anywhere i maybe should spend more time ?

again many thanks i know its a while off yet but i like to plan :)
 
would you recommend stopping at Innsbruck or more a day trip to it :)
I just need to work out a base not too far from Neuschwanstein castle I think.
or are both doable as day trips from Salzburg.?
I would look for a base to spend a few days to park the caravan and 'day trip' to places like Salzburg or Innsbruck by car or public transport. You will see a lot more if you are not driving. Most campsites can advise about the best way to visit nearby attractions.

We stayed at a campsite just outside Salzburg and got a local bus into the city. During a different trip we stayed at a campsite outside Fussen when we went to Neuschwanstein castle, beware it gets very busy there so go early if you can as parking spaces fill up quickly. When we visited in August there was a most spectacular thunderstorm with hailstones the size of grapes, they hurt!

Have you experience of driving in mainland Europe? I found driving on motorways pretty straightforward but found urban driving was traumatic at first especially with a big vehicle. I have got used to it now. Driving in Italy is more scary than Germany, Austria or Switzerland.
 
Certainly not from Venice; its at least a 10 hour drive; and even the 4.5 hours from Salzburg to Prague seems a bit much
yep I changed it thanks to stopping up near Prague and a day set aside for Prague.
would that be long enough or would i be better with a couple of days at Prague ?
 
I would look for a base to spend a few days to park the caravan and 'day trip' to places like Salzburg or Innsbruck by car or public transport. You will see a lot more if you are not driving. Most campsites can advise about the best way to visit nearby attractions.

We stayed at a campsite just outside Salzburg and got a local bus into the city. During a different trip we stayed at a campsite outside Fussen when we went to Neuschwanstein castle, beware it gets very busy there so go early if you can as parking spaces fill up quickly. When we visited in August there was a most spectacular thunderstorm with hailstones the size of grapes, they hurt!

Have you experience of driving in mainland Europe? I found driving on motorways pretty straightforward but found urban driving was traumatic at first especially with a big vehicle. I have got used to it now. Driving in Italy is more scary than Germany, Austria or Switzerland.

Thanks will have a look at that. And no I have never really driven mainland Europe apart from round Poland a little.
we were thinking maybe 3 days or so near Salzburg etc, now, Then somewhere near Neuschwanstein castle so Fussen may work well for that.
 
I've driven in many European countries as well as doing this kind of trip in Canada - your modification of the trip is sensible. :)

Based on experience, just in case you were thinking of using a route that went near Antwerp on the motorway, unless it is at 2am you will spend several hours queueing. That really is 3+ hours, with queues starting 30-40km from the ringroad.

Roads in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland are generally excellent. Roads in Italy tend to be narrower than expected, sometimes quite a bit narrower even when major routes and motorway. That was less of an issue in the north around Turin, but certainly so between Pisa & Florence, Siena, around Naples and down into the Marche & Abruzzo regions.

Long tunnels that traverse mountain ranges are fast & useful, but make sure you have working aircon, because they can be stifling (30+ degrees).

The area around Salzburg is lovely, though it's 30 years since I was last there.

When we've done roadtrip type holidays in Canada we generally did 1 day of driving (5 to 8 hours) followed by one, two or three days 'off'. It makes everything manageable.


And just to say that I wish you a fantastic time. :)
 
eek that's out ferry would cost over £800 with the caravan.
You have not said where you would be setting off from. Living in the North East we normally use ferries, Newcastle to Ijmuiden and Hull to Rotterdam, 2 years ago the Hull crossing was cheaper if booked through the Camping and Caravanning club......the ferry saves us a days travel each way & fuel for the 700 mile round trip to the Channel ports.

Both of these routes leave the UK late afternoon/early evening and arrive in the Netherlands just after breakfast meaning you have a whole day to travel onwards. We normally travel down through Netherlands to Venlo & into Germany.
 
You have not said where you would be setting off from. Living in the North East we normally use ferries, Newcastle to Ijmuiden and Hull to Rotterdam, 2 years ago the Hull crossing was cheaper if booked through the Camping and Caravanning club......the ferry saves us a days travel each way & fuel for the 700 mile round trip to the Channel ports.

Both of these routes leave the UK late afternoon/early evening and arrive in the Netherlands just after breakfast meaning you have a whole day to travel onwards. We normally travel down through Netherlands to Venlo & into Germany.
I am near Scarborough :)
but have just reworked the route again with recommendations to spread it out :)
 
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Having done a lot of motorcycle tours in Europe a couple of things I would add...

Most local fuel stations don't open on Sundays, so make sure you've topped up on Saturday, or use the services on a Motorway.
You need to rest... We quite often had the odd "day off" just wandering around town, or heading somewhere for a nice slow lunch (The cafe at the Col Du Forclaz has always been a favourite of mine).
Many places in France are closed in August, Towns are almost empty sometimes.
If you're in Chamonix, make time for a trip through the MB tunnel and drive the Grand St Bernard Pass, it really is a lovely drive - and you pass the cafe I mentioned above.

Looks like a great trip...
 
Imho your going to want to give up on the idea after a couple of days , I wouldn’t fancy doing it with just the car let alone towing , and your not taking into account the lunatic drivers in Italy it really is bad out there ... sounds a good idea on paper but without prior experience of the continent it will soon turn sour .
 
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