'Extinction Rebellion' - Day 3 Bristol (Pic Heavy)

Fortunately my children will be extremely well looked after - I have made sure financially they will have nothing to worry about. I also believe we all may still be around in 20yrs time so they will have to wait a bit longer for their inheritance; fingers crossed.
I’m really pleased that you have given your children enough money to overcome dead oceans, dead insects, no water, no food, dead most things and hordes of hungry human beings marauding across The Channel after your children’s stored food. Great presence of mind. Fantastic parenting, you should be proud. Have you thought that they might not have any friends?
 
I’m really pleased that you have given your children enough money to overcome dead oceans, dead insects, no water, no food, dead most things and hordes of hungry human beings marauding across The Channel after your children’s stored food. Great presence of mind. Fantastic parenting, you should be proud. Have you thought that they might not have any friends?

Just as I thought. Climate change protestors are hard left hysterical extremists.
 
What is the relevance to Extinction Rebellion and its protesters in mentioning the NHS?

It was in response to the suggestion that socialism is a bad thing, clearly.
 
I’m really pleased that you have given your children enough money to overcome dead oceans, dead insects, no water, no food, dead most things and hordes of hungry human beings marauding across The Channel after your children’s stored food. Great presence of mind. Fantastic parenting, you should be proud. Have you thought that they might not have any friends?

'Fantastic Parenting - you should be proud' - thanks for your comments; I am really proud of them! One is on a gap year doing aid work in Africa and the youngest daughter is studying medicine so I am really proud of them, they also have lots of friends. ;)

I have been fortunate enough to retire at 35 so have been a 'house husband' to them and watched them grow up.

Anyway; now you've criticised my parenting it's nice that you've kept to your mantra:
This is a thread about photos.

I think we should go back to the topic of the excellent Photo's that show the anarchy of the group and how much they are costing everybody.
 
There were dramatic changes to climate in the past from things like volcano eruptions and meteor strikes.

Absolutley not true. The earth's climate is in a constant state of flux with all manner of things affecting it, not just catastrophic events. There's also the issue that the current climate change doom and gloom mongers are basing their huge predictions for the future on, at most, 150 years worth of weather data. I work that out to be 0.000000326% of the earth's history based on an age of 4.6 billion years. Also the world went through a period of sustained global cooling from about 1300-1870, so we are starting from a low base and then saying we're all going to die because it's getting warmer. Sorry but no, the science doesn't stack up. Also the world spent a couple of hundred years burning coal from the industrial revolution, which put lots of soot and sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere, again giving a cooling effect. Now most of the world has moved on from coal this effect has gone and we are seeing a rebound in global temperatures.

To be clear I'm not a climate change denier. It's certainly happening and the earth is getting warmer, and I'm sure humans are having a small effect on this process. Whether it's a problem or not is another matter. We are at a fairly unique moment in Earth's history where it has ice caps at both poles. That's quite unusual and not at all how things have been for the vast majority of this planet's history. So polar ice loss isn't a problem, it's just different to what we have now. (see here from the Geological Society https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Educatio...Climate/How-Long-has-Earth-had-Polar-Ice-Caps ).

Why humanity has this obsession with keeping the planet and climate exactly the same as it is now baffles me. Things change, animals go extinct and the climate changes. As a species we either adapt, die out or evolve into something else. But trying to stop climate change is absolutely futile.

I’m really pleased that you have given your children enough money to overcome dead oceans, dead insects, no water, no food, dead most things and hordes of hungry human beings marauding across The Channel after your children’s stored food. Great presence of mind. Fantastic parenting, you should be proud. Have you thought that they might not have any friends?

Wow...bit over the line that
 
Why humanity has this obsession with keeping the planet and climate exactly the same as it is now baffles me. Things change, animals go extinct and the climate changes. As a species we either adapt, die out or evolve into something else. But trying to stop climate change is absolutely futile.

That's actually a very thoughtful contribution to the discussion, Richard.

I suppose we as a species have so much committed to the current climate model, and we are changing it so fast, that we have such a lot to lose. In the greater scheme of things the planet will survive, but how much will survive of what we are familiar with and value so highly is another matter.
 
Just gonna post this again..

https://xkcd.com/1732/

There has never been climate change at this rate before, not atleast since 20000BC.

And in that cartoon, at 17500BC, it says CO2 levels start to rise. What caused that then? Did our cave dwelling forefathers suddenly discover cars and aircraft? No they didn't. It's natural variation in climate, atmospheric composition etc. In the Jurassic period CO2 levels were 1800ppm, almost 5 times what they are today. And guess what, the planet was fine and teeming with life. Again, climate change, even rapid climate change, is not going to wipe out life on earth or anything dramatic like that. It's a bit of an inconvenience for us humans, but if you actually look at the overall picture in terms of the entire history of this planet it's not an issue at all
 
And in that cartoon, at 17500BC, it says CO2 levels start to rise. What caused that then? Did our cave dwelling forefathers suddenly discover cars and aircraft? No they didn't. It's natural variation in climate, atmospheric composition etc. In the Jurassic period CO2 levels were 1800ppm, almost 5 times what they are today. And guess what, the planet was fine and teeming with life. Again, climate change, even rapid climate change, is not going to wipe out life on earth or anything dramatic like that. It's a bit of an inconvenience for us humans, but if you actually look at the overall picture in terms of the entire history of this planet it's not an issue at all

The earth warms, the seas warm, they release Co2, Co2 amplifies the warming, the earth warms, the seas warm, they release Co2, Co2 amplifies the warming...

The humans dig up the naturally created Co2 sinks and burn them releasing all of that Co2 into the atmosphere... It amplifies the existing warming, we continue pumping it into the atmosphere, it amplifies the existing warming...

It's called a positive feedback loop. And we may already be at the point it's irreversible, and all we can hope to do is slow it down.
 
The earth warms, the seas warm, they release Co2, Co2 amplifies the warming, the earth warms, the seas warm, they release Co2, Co2 amplifies the warming...

The humans dig up the naturally created Co2 sinks and burn them releasing all of that Co2 into the atmosphere... It amplifies the existing warming, we continue pumping it into the atmosphere, it amplifies the existing warming...


Positive feedback loop after positive feedback loop........

Don't even mention methane!
 
Absolutley not true. The earth's climate is in a constant state of flux with all manner of things affecting it, not just catastrophic events. There's also the issue that the current climate change doom and gloom mongers are basing their huge predictions for the future on, at most, 150 years worth of weather data. I work that out to be 0.000000326% of the earth's history based on an age of 4.6 billion years. Also the world went through a period of sustained global cooling from about 1300-1870, so we are starting from a low base and then saying we're all going to die because it's getting warmer. Sorry but no, the science doesn't stack up. Also the world spent a couple of hundred years burning coal from the industrial revolution, which put lots of soot and sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere, again giving a cooling effect. Now most of the world has moved on from coal this effect has gone and we are seeing a rebound in global temperatures.

To be clear I'm not a climate change denier. It's certainly happening and the earth is getting warmer, and I'm sure humans are having a small effect on this process. Whether it's a problem or not is another matter. We are at a fairly unique moment in Earth's history where it has ice caps at both poles. That's quite unusual and not at all how things have been for the vast majority of this planet's history. So polar ice loss isn't a problem, it's just different to what we have now. (see here from the Geological Society https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Educatio...Climate/How-Long-has-Earth-had-Polar-Ice-Caps ).

Why humanity has this obsession with keeping the planet and climate exactly the same as it is now baffles me. Things change, animals go extinct and the climate changes. As a species we either adapt, die out or evolve into something else. But trying to stop climate change is absolutely futile.



Wow...bit over the line that

Humanity has an obsession with keeping the planet as it is because that’s where we live. We are in a complex ecosystem that is being damaged, possibly irreversibly. Yes, it is likely that the planet will carry on without us, but by no means a given.

Yes, my comment on parenting was harsh and I apologise for that. It was in response to an “I’m alright Jack” comment.
 
And in that cartoon, at 17500BC, it says CO2 levels start to rise. What caused that then? Did our cave dwelling forefathers suddenly discover cars and aircraft? No they didn't. It's natural variation in climate, atmospheric composition etc. In the Jurassic period CO2 levels were 1800ppm, almost 5 times what they are today. And guess what, the planet was fine and teeming with life. Again, climate change, even rapid climate change, is not going to wipe out life on earth or anything dramatic like that. It's a bit of an inconvenience for us humans, but if you actually look at the overall picture in terms of the entire history of this planet it's not an issue at all

But in the past there weren’t 7 BILLION people living on the planet with millions if not billions of those living in coastal cities. In the past the tiny human populations were mobile hunter-gathers who could migrate as the climate changed. The pre-historic human populations were not dependent on fertilizers, chlorinated water and other advance technologies for their survival. It’s far too glib to say “it’s happened before, it’ll happen again”. It has never happened at this rate before to a technology dependent population, I would like my children and grandchildren to enjoy the standard of living that I have, not to have to live through mass migrations, wars, famines and the resulting decline in living standards that will come, just so that some selfish people now can continue with unsustainable rates of consumption.
 
Thes
I’m pretty sure the climate would be pretty much the same whether we were here or not. Nature’s a powerful force in itself.

What I do acknowledge is the pollution we cause - but it won’t change the weather.

If these ER people really cared about CO2 - they’d be blockading the rain forest in Brazil which is being cut back at a rapid rate not causing a traffic jam in Bristol.

It seems that you are something of a Global warming Denier. However not every one is.
These people do care about the environment, and are doing what they can locally, and in their own country. they will also support what ever is being done to preserve the rain forests.
Protests are never an instant answer. but they eventually change people minds as they gather support.
 
But in the past there weren’t 7 BILLION people living on the planet with millions if not billions of those living in coastal cities. In the past the tiny human populations were mobile hunter-gathers who could migrate as the climate changed. The pre-historic human populations were not dependent on fertilizers, chlorinated water and other advance technologies for their survival. It’s far too glib to say “it’s happened before, it’ll happen again”. It has never happened at this rate before to a technology dependent population, I would like my children and grandchildren to enjoy the standard of living that I have, not to have to live through mass migrations, wars, famines and the resulting decline in living standards that will come, just so that some selfish people now can continue with unsustainable rates of consumption.


Brilliant post. The main thing you haven't mentioned, though, which we are totally dependent on, is fossil fuels.
 
Humanity has an obsession with keeping the planet as it is because that’s where we live. We are in a complex ecosystem that is being damaged, possibly irreversibly. Yes, it is likely that the planet will carry on without us, but by no means a given.

The planet will be fine, really. It's survived mass volcanism, comet impacts, huge meteor impacts, several ice ages and lots of global warming events. Life on earth isn't going to die out because the climate gets two or three degrees warmer. Quite the opposite infact.

But in the past there weren’t 7 BILLION people living on the planet with millions if not billions of those living in coastal cities. In the past the tiny human populations were mobile hunter-gathers who could migrate as the climate changed. The pre-historic human populations were not dependent on fertilizers, chlorinated water and other advance technologies for their survival. It’s far too glib to say “it’s happened before, it’ll happen again”. It has never happened at this rate before to a technology dependent population, I would like my children and grandchildren to enjoy the standard of living that I have, not to have to live through mass migrations, wars, famines and the resulting decline in living standards that will come, just so that some selfish people now can continue with unsustainable rates of consumption.

Ahhh and here we get to the nub of the issue. 7 Billion people on this planet is unsustainable. If there were 3.5 billion people on the earth none of this would be an issue. Yes lots of people live in coastal cities, and those cities aren't going to be there in 500 years. However, last time I checked only 1% of the earth's land surface is built on, so it's not like we don't have room to move into. And you contradict yourself. You want your children and grandchildren to have your standard of living, but then later in the same sentence say we have unsustainable rates of consumption. Those two things are mutually exclusive.
 
The planet will be fine, really. It's survived mass volcanism, comet impacts, huge meteor impacts, several ice ages and lots of global warming events. Life on earth isn't going to die out because the climate gets two or three degrees warmer. Quite the opposite infact.

You forget plastic, and chemicals. They are changing the ecosystem like never before.
 
The planet will be fine, really. It's survived mass volcanism, comet impacts, huge meteor impacts, several ice ages and lots of global warming events. Life on earth isn't going to die out because the climate gets two or three degrees warmer. Quite the opposite infact.

After each of these events the world environment changed as did a majority of the flora a fauna. The plant might well recover when mankind has gone, but it will be a very different world.



Ahhh and here we get to the nub of the issue. 7 Billion people on this planet is unsustainable. If there were 3.5 billion people on the earth none of this would be an issue. Yes lots of people live in coastal cities, and those cities aren't going to be there in 500 years. However, last time I checked only 1% of the earth's land surface is built on, so it's not like we don't have room to move into. And you contradict yourself. You want your children and grandchildren to have your standard of living, but then later in the same sentence say we have unsustainable rates of consumption. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

It is probably true, that if we are to change our ways sufficiently for the world to recover, That the population will need to be much smaller, and use far fewer resources and rely exclusively on renewable energy. However this does not mean that they will live worse lives. Quite the contrary, they will be living better and sustainable lives, and in balance with nature.
The forthcoming Global warming will undoubtedly reduce the size of the population of both us and many other species. The rate at which the echo system will be possible to recover, will largely depend of how quickly we make the necessary changes to our life styles as a species now.
 
Those two things are mutually exclusive.
They are not though, we have all the technology we need to maintain our standard of living and do it sustainably from renewables. There are plenty of substitutes for plastics for example but the oil companies have a vested interest in in keeping us hooked on oil from which plastic is made, so the other technologies are strangled at birth. When I worked for BP a couple of decades ago they were busy buying up solar energy companies and patents and marketing it as "Beyond Petroleum" but in reality they just used it to suppress solar energy innovation.
 
we are totally dependent on, is fossil fuels.
Personally, I blame the Dinosaurs for dying out ;)


However, last time I checked only 1% of the earth's land surface is built on, so it's not like we don't have room to move into.

The total land surface area of Earth is about 57,309,000 square miles, of which about 33% is desert and about 24% is mountainous. If all desert and mountainous regions are considered uninhabitable, then that leaves about 24,643,000 square miles of habitable land.

Humans use half of global habitable area for agricultural production (of the remainder, 37 percent is forested; 11 percent as shrubbery; and only one-percent is utilised as urban infrastructure).

In reality there isn't that much room to spread out after all.
 
which we are totally dependent on, is fossil fuels
It amuses me to think that burning of fossil fuels is our thermodynamic destiny, it is the very reason for our existence. The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy always increases, i.e useful energy is always dissipated, and there is the Sun doing the right thing, dissipating it’s energy nicely throughout the universe. But by a bizarre quirk of fate a small rock near the sun evolved trees and plankton and the trees and plankton started capturing the energy that should be being dissipated and locking it up as coal and oil. The basic laws of physics couldn’t let this continue so more active animals evolved in the energy gradient, the dinosaurs were hopeless at burning tress, digging up coal and drilling for oil so after a few hundred million years they got canned in favour of mammals. Mammals turned out to be a lot more effective at speeding up the heat death of the universe.

So in that context we are a bit like lottery winners hell bent on blowing our wealth on fast cars, fun and frivolity rather than investing it for future generations.
 
the dinosaurs were hopeless at burning tress, digging up coal and drilling for oil
There is a reason for that, have you not noticed the length of the apex predators arms?
:D
 
It amuses me to think that burning of fossil fuels is our thermodynamic destiny, it is the very reason for our existence. The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy always increases, i.e useful energy is always dissipated, and there is the Sun doing the right thing, dissipating it’s energy nicely throughout the universe. But by a bizarre quirk of fate a small rock near the sun evolved trees and plankton and the trees and plankton started capturing the energy that should be being dissipated and locking it up as coal and oil. The basic laws of physics couldn’t let this continue so more active animals evolved in the energy gradient, the dinosaurs were hopeless at burning tress, digging up coal and drilling for oil so after a few hundred million years they got canned in favour of mammals. Mammals turned out to be a lot more effective at speeding up the heat death of the universe.

So in that context we are a bit like lottery winners hell bent on blowing our wealth on fast cars, fun and frivolity rather than investing it for future generations.

There are some real kill joy doom mongers lurking here!
Lighten up and have some fun!
 
We are (humans) a very adaptable, inventive species; I really can't see us making the earth un-inhabitable in the foreseeable future. Once I'm pushing daisies up I won't have a care in the world so for now, whilst I can I will thoroughly enjoy myself - I worked hard when I was young so now is my fun time :)

The human race will blow itself apart long before burning a bit of petrol will.
 
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