'Extinction Rebellion' - Day 3 Bristol (Pic Heavy)

Personally I think it is foolish to deny global warming and foolish to deny that mankind is primarily responsible for this happening.
We are pumping all of our refuse into the land, sea and air and are reaping the consequences.
Sadly this is also affecting the world of animals, fish, birds and insects ... we should be caring for the natural world but we are treating it like a rubbish tip.
 
gramps said:
Personally I think it is foolish to deny global warming and foolish to deny that mankind is primarily responsible for this happening.
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Why? These scare stories have been going around since the 70's - and none of them, and I mean none have been proven true or come to fruition.

gramps said:
We are pumping all of our refuse into the land, sea and air and are reaping the consequences.
Sadly this is also affecting the world of animals, fish, birds and insects ... we should be caring for the natural world but we are treating it like a rubbish tip.
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Ok - different thing.

Using renewable materials, planting trees help this. If these ER people put this time and energy into reforesting land, tidying up litter and mess - they'd have much more of an impact. House building devastates wild land and natural habitats - why aren't they protesting outside Cala/Persimmon/Barrat Homes HQ for instance.

Lazying around in a garden chair (made of synthetic materials) in the middle of a junction in Bristol does sweet FA about the issues you raise.

It's a bunch of lefty snow flake university Corbinysta types doing the same old thing all over again.
 
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gramps said:
Personally I think it is foolish to deny global warming and foolish to deny that mankind is primarily responsible for this happening.
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I agree with you on the first point but I can't see the evidence for the second. That said we may have catalysed a state change that was ready to happen but then what would have been the catalysts for the changes of the last 500 million years and how sure are we that those catalysts are not the cause (or causes) in this case?

I'm with Steve when he says that fixing the environment is a good thing in itself of course.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
I agree with you on the first point but I can't see the evidence for the second. That said we may have catalysed a state change that was ready to happen but then what would have been the catalysts for the changes of the last 500 million years and how sure are we that those catalysts are not the cause (or causes) in this case?
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The bigger issue is a) Nuclear waste long time b) natural habitat removal

You know the real problem - exponential birth rates in the developing world (finally birth rates are falling in the developed world) and a very sudden population growth making traditional food production methods unsustainable.

The worlds population is far too large and really needs a 90% cull. Basically 9/10 couples of reproduction age should not have children and 1/10 should only have one.
 
SFTPhotography said:
Why? These scare stories have been going around since the 70's - and none of them, and I mean none have been proven true or come to fruition.
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Stories are one thing, facts are another.
Eighteen of the 19 warmest years all have occurred since 2001, with the exception of 1998. The year 2016 ranks as the warmest on record
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https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

What makes you think that this trend in global warming will be turned around (that's ignoring thoughts of all of the other forms of pollution)?
Sure blocking a junction isn't going to change things but human activity could.
 
gramps said:
Stories are one thing, facts are another.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

What makes you think that this trend in global warming will be turned around (that's ignoring thoughts of all of the other forms of pollution)?
Sure blocking a junction isn't going to change things but human activity could.
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Warmer in some parts of the world - maybe not as warm in others.

It's a very short scale to use - 20yrs. You know the climate was a lot warmer, and more humid when dinosaurs roamed the planet. They didn't have the helping hand of the Range Rover to warm it up. Anecdotally - I cannot recall a colder or more unpleasantly cold summer than this one.

If these people really cared, which they don't, they'd be protesting in china, trying to stop deforestation in the Amazon, cleaning up litter and planting trees. But they are not - they are rebels with a very misguided cause.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
I agree with you on the first point but I can't see the evidence for the second.
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Scientists have been shouting the evidence from the rooftops ... even if there is only the tiniest chance of them being right we are idiots to ignore them.
 
gramps said:
Scientists have been shouting the evidence from the rooftops ... even if there is only the tiniest chance of them being right we are idiots to ignore them.
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Why? None of what they've been saying has come true in the last 50 years. Look at that clown Al Gore and what he said would happen - and like none of it did.

We are idiots to heed these people attention and saying something over and over doesn't make it true.
 
SFTPhotography said:
Why? None of what they've been saying has come true in the last 50 years. Look at that clown Al Gore and what he said would happen - and like none of it did.

We are idiots to heed these people attention and saying something over and over doesn't make it true.
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Melting polar icecaps, receding glaciers, extreme weather patterns, rising sea levels leading to flooding etc ... all actually occurring now for us all to see and many to experience.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
You may be right and Britain is reported as being the 14th most effective country in acting to contain "climate change causes" (https://ceoworld.biz/2018/07/13/the...tries-in-tackling-climate-change-report-2018/). That being the case shouldn't the protestors be taking their disruption to one or more of the 181 countries not doing as much as we already are?
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I guess the practicalities of doing so for this particular group (i.e. the 'Bristol' protesters) might be limited, however many countries are facing similar protests.
As was mentioned earlier, doing so in some countries would invoke extreme authoritarian persecution.
 
gramps said:
As was mentioned earlier, doing so in some countries would invoke extreme authoritarian persecution.
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Which is why they’ll snowflake around here.

Why couldn’t they plant some trees, pick some rubbish up - that would have some environmental benefit - this has none.
 
gramps said:
Stories are one thing, facts are another.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

What makes you think that this trend in global warming will be turned around (that's ignoring thoughts of all of the other forms of pollution)?
Sure blocking a junction isn't going to change things but human activity could.
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The warmest years in history have NOT been in the 2000's - these are manipulated figures in the Hoax that Nasa, the Met Office etc are all involved in!

1930's america was the warmest years on record measured by a thermometer! (the organisations are continually manipulating figures to try and get their climate models to 'fit' but they are always widely inaccurate! The 'hockey stick' temperature graph produced by these eco warriors has been shown to be fake numerous times by real scientists!)

In the early 1900's there were numerous temperature stations in rural areas used to measure global surface temperature - these are no longer in rural areas as the population has expanded but are now in 'built up areas'. Everybody knows the temps in built up areas remain higher.

In the past we have had no ice at the polar caps, ice covering a significant proportion of the world etc - we are always changing and the notion man can cause it is a King Canute scenario - we are not that powerful yet!

All scientists don't agree - this is also a lie!

Most scientists disagree with man made global warming - it is a hoax so you don't protest at the massive taxes imposed on fossil fuels - it was started by Maggie Thatcher to defeat the Coal Miners and used fake science - she even admitted it in her autobiography.

Waste is a different matter - we do need to clean our act up massively and protect the living world from our disposable society.
 
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gramps said:
Now we are in cloud cuckoo land!
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You see. I don’t think we are at all.

I think we’re being spun a massive pile of horse s*** and because it’s repeated over and over doesn’t make it true.

Looking back at your pictures they tell this story. A massive hysterical rabble spout this stuff off like gospel and there’s no cohesion or logic behind it. Look at the photos you’ve taken - the dude with the plastic sunshades, the person with the rucksack made of synthetics, the person with the Adidas trainers all of them dressed cheaply in stuff made in far eastern sweatshops. All of that stuff pollutes at the end of its life - and by their logic by being made and imported to begin with. All we need is the Apple Phone and Starbucks coffee to call it a full house.

It’s like the eco hypies that go “vegan” for the environment yet fly off to Thailand to “travel” and “experience the world” when in fact they just do drugs. There’s a whiff of that here.

If ER were serious they’d raise money, invest in carbon offsetting, cleaning up waste, invest and volunteer to instal solar panels, wind farms etc I’d maybe take them more seriously. Even if they helped plant trees and/or shrubs to restore natural habitats. No, they’re anarchists and brutes who’ve taken money out of the economy which could have been used to further their goals.
 
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Pound Coin said:
Not annoying people would not get any media coverage!

We've got about 20 years left, what with plastic and CO2 poisoning the world. Get ready for it...

Anyway, this is probably for Hot Topics, rather than a photographic thread.
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20 years before what?
 
SFTPhotography said:
Looking back at your pictures they tell this story. A massive hysterical rabble spout this stuff off like gospel and there’s no cohesion or logic behind it. Look at the photos you’ve taken - the dude with the plastic sunshades, the person with the rucksack made of synthetics, the person with the Adidas trainers all of them dressed cheaply in stuff made in far eastern sweatshops. All of that stuff pollutes at the end of its life - and by their logic by being made and imported to begin with. All we need is the Apple Phone and Starbucks coffee to call it a full house.

It’s like the eco hypies that go “vegan” for the environment yet fly off to Thailand to “travel” and “experience the world” when in fact they just do drugs. There’s a whiff of that here.

If ER were serious they’d raise money, invest in carbon offsetting, cleaning up waste, invest and volunteer to instal solar panels, wind farms etc I’d maybe take them more seriously. Even if they helped plant trees and/or shrubs to restore natural habitats. No, they’re anarchists and brutes who’ve taken money out of the economy which could have been used to further their goals.
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I don't disagree with your view of some of those spouting the 'save the planet' mantra, however I do believe that our planet is currently on a course for disaster and mankind's mismanagement of the environment is the major part of the reason.
 
gramps said:
I don't disagree with your view of some of those spouting the 'save the planet' mantra, however I do believe that our planet is currently on a course for disaster and mankind's mismanagement of the environment is the major part of the reason.
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I don’t agree that the climate is a thing we’re changing. I’m not disputing we shouldn’t clean up our act but CO2 is not the problem
 
gramps said:
Ihowever I do believe that our planet is currently on a course for disaster and mankind's mismanagement of the environment is the major part of the reason.
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Without in any way wishing to be offensive I think that the key word in that statement is "believe". What is required to win the argument is factual evidence and that seems to be in short supply. The fundamental problem is that the evidence we have is quite contradictory. The fossil record suggests that we are emerging from a relatively cool period and that average temperatures have quite often been far higher than now. They've also, according to the evidence, been far lower (the Snowball Earth theory). If the world is simply in the upturn of average temperature that geologists seem to have demonstrated is normal for our planet, then rather than messing around wouldn't we be better off putting our resources into building dykes and other sea defences?
 
SFTPhotography said:
saying something over and over doesn't make it true.
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Then perhaps you should stop?

Whether or not you believe we are causing global heating is beside the point, as I'm guessing that (like most of us) you haven't spent decades studying climate change at a high level with all the tools of modern science. The people who have think we have a major problem, and need to take urgent action to do something about it.
 
Retune said:
Then perhaps you should stop?

Whether or not you believe we are causing global heating is beside the point, as I'm guessing that (like most of us) you haven't spent decades studying climate change at a high level with all the tools of modern science. The people who have think we have a major problem, and need to take urgent action to do something about it.
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Except these very same so called “scientists” have been spouting this guff for nigh on half a century.

None of the dire things they predicted in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s have happened despite “carbon” emissions rising.

It’s all becoming like the “boy who cried wolf” and now a 16yr old kid gets brainwashed by this s***, decides to spit her dummy and not turn up to school. Some Facebook later and now we have this carry on.

Forgive me for being less than impressed.
 
SFTPhotography said:
Except these very same so called “scientists” have been spouting this guff for nigh on half a century.

None of the dire things they predicted in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s have happened despite “carbon” emissions rising.

It’s all becoming like the “boy who cried wolf” and now a 16yr old kid gets brainwashed by this s***, decides to spit her dummy and not turn up to school. Some Facebook later and now we have this carry on.

Forgive me for being less than impressed.
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Unfortunately for us, this is nonsense. Predictions made 'nigh on half a century ago', using much simpler models than are available now, actually turned out to be rather accurate:

https://www.nature.com/articles/448992c
https://skepticalscience.com/lessons-from-past-climate-predictions-sawyer-1972.html
https://skepticalscience.com/lessons-from-past-climate-predictions-broecker.html
https://skepticalscience.com/lessons-from-past-predictions-hansen-1981.html
 
Retune said:
The people who have think we have a major problem, and need to take urgent action to do something about it.
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I think it's important to understand that there is not quite the agreement that some people believe on the subject. There seems to be a substantial body of opinion among researchers in the field who are not convinced that the evidence supports the conclusions. Also we should not forget that the scientific community is not uniformly as high minded and objective as we may have been taught at school. Careers can depend on many considerations and it seems not uncommon for less scrupulous people to bully and cajol their colleagues to accept decisions that subsequently turn out to be unwise.
 
Retune said:
Unfortunately for us, this is nonsense. Predictions made 'nigh on half a century ago', using much simpler models than are available now, actually turned out to be rather accurate:

https://www.nature.com/articles/448992c
https://skepticalscience.com/lessons-from-past-climate-predictions-sawyer-1972.html
https://skepticalscience.com/lessons-from-past-climate-predictions-broecker.html
https://skepticalscience.com/lessons-from-past-predictions-hansen-1981.html
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Retune said:
Unfortunately for us, this is nonsense. Predictions made 'nigh on half a century ago', using much simpler models than are available now, actually turned out to be rather accurate:
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Majority of the evidence you provide is from a website callled skeptical science - a well known eco warrior site!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYhCQv5tNsQ


The Offcom report on this program:
https://www.channel4.com/press/news/channel-4-welcomes-ofcom-ruling-great-global-warming-swindle

When the most eminent physicist of our time and nobel prize winners states the evidence is 'very shaky' at best:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=SXxHfb66ZgM

And the 97% Consensus fraud:
https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/97_Consensus_Myth.pdf
 
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Retune said:
This is also incorrect:
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
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The earth is warming - eff all to do with humans in the main though!

Just remember how much money these organisations are paid for their research! Say it isn't happening you get humiliated and no money whatsoever - infact your career is ruined!
never before has science been like this!
The lunatics have taken over and most are falling for the propaganda!

It's a real shame so many humans are anti our existence!
 
 
Fraser Euan White said:
The earth is warming - eff all to do with humans in the main though!

Just remember how much money these organisations are paid for their research! Say it isn't happening you get humiliated and no money whatsoever - infact your career is ruined!
never before has science been like this!
The lunatics have taken over and most are falling for the propaganda!

It's a real shame so many humans are anti our existence!
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Just remember how much money the organisations that are feeding deniers make.

Fraser, if you are alive in 20 years, please revisit these words.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
You may be right and Britain is reported as being the 14th most effective country in acting to contain "climate change causes" (https://ceoworld.biz/2018/07/13/the...tries-in-tackling-climate-change-report-2018/). That being the case shouldn't the protestors be taking their disruption to one or more of the 181 countries not doing as much as we already are?
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What about the climate change causes that we have off-shored by getting the stuff from China? What about the fact that we’ve created an economy on the back of huge resource removal from other parts of the world. Shouldn’t they be afforded the same king of leg-up that we used to get to where we are?

This is for hot topics.
 
Pound Coin said:
Just remember how much money the organisations that are feeding deniers make.

Fraser, if you are alive in 20 years, please revisit these words.
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According to your earlier post the human race won't be alive in 20yrs time! :rolleyes:
 
Good. You get the point. Well done!
 
Retune said:
Let's just take it as read that there are hundreds of blog posts and YT videos by climate change denialists you could quote, and unpicking the deliberate distortions and half-truths is an exercise in pig wrestling. But why believe non-specialists, often with a political agenda, frequently supported by money from the fossil fuel industry, rather than the scientific consensus?
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Why believe it when the earths climate has been changing since it ever existed - surely this is good enough proof that humans aren't the cause because we have only been on the planet for a minuscule amount of time - let alone burning fossil fuels; it's just a crazy idea that we are the cause of it.
 
DK602 said:
Why believe it when the earths climate has been changing since it ever existed - surely this is good enough proof that humans aren't the cause because we have only been on the planet for a minuscule amount of time - let alone burning fossil fuels; it's just a crazy idea that we are the cause of it.
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That argument doesn't really make any sense. That the climate has changed in the past says nothing about the ability of 7.7 billion humans, adding up to 40 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere every year and carrying out deforestation on a massive scale, to change the climate in the present. Anyone in the developed world who doesn't think humans influence the environment much should look out of the window more often.
 
Retune said:
That argument doesn't really make any sense. That the climate has changed in the past says nothing about the ability of 7.7 billion humans, adding up to 40 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere every year and carrying out deforestation on a massive scale, to change the climate in the present. Anyone in the developed world who doesn't think humans influence the environment much should look out of the window more often.
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It makes a lot of sense!

Tell me, what has caused the climate change in the past then?
 
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