Film Photographer of the Year 2019 (FPOTY 19) thoughts and ideas: Poll added

Question - Do you want to include either of the suggestions outlined in FPOTY 2019?

  • Neither

    Votes: 6 28.6%

  • Mystery Month only

    Votes: 10 47.6%

  • Joker only

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Both

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
11,025
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
I had a word with @Carl Hall at the Scottish meet (still in progress), and he would rather not run FPOTY 19 after having run the competition for two years in a row. So I've volunteered to start this preparatory thread. For comparison, the corresponding thread for this year's competition was https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...r-of-the-year-2018-thoughts-and-ideas.667061/ .

I think there are three main things we need to get sorted:

a) is there a volunteer to run the actual competition?

b) are people happy with the rules and voting, and if not, what changes are suggested? (This year's rules are at https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...her-of-the-year-2018-rules-and-themes.668436/.)

c) we'll need to get cracking on ideas for themes (particularly if we don't re-use themes from this year and last year), in order to allow preparatory photography to start from 1 December (if we maintain that rule) Carl will proide us with left-over themes as a starter...
 
... Meanwhile half the room is nominating EDIT: decided naming people at this stage is premature, let the volunteers emerge as they wil...

For my two ha'porth, I'd leave the rules pretty much the same this year
 
Last edited:
I've only entered once so far, but the rules seem fine to me. Sorry, not volunteering - not enough notches in my belt yet by a long way!
 
Don't we still have lots (a year's worth) of unused themes left over from last year that went into Carl's green felt hat (or whatever it was) but weren't drawn out? After all that buggering about.. I mean careful suggestion, debate and voting we did last year, it would seem a bit daft not to use them.
 
Mr Badger said:
Don't we still have lots (a year's worth) of unused themes left over from last year that went into Carl's green felt hat (or whatever it was) but weren't drawn out? After all that buggering about.. I mean careful suggestion, debate and voting we did last year, it would seem a bit daft not to use them.
Click to expand...

Agree. There are loads of suggestions left over from the discussions and vote last year.

I think the rules are generally okay but I need to have another read of them I think.

I was chatting about anonymous entries with someone in Scotland but that adds an enormous amount of work onto the organiser, who then wouldn't be able to take part in the vote. Also, sometimes it would be very obvious who had entered a particular photo (see my natural light portrait entry)!
 
I wonder if it would be interesting to have fewer themes but have more images for each one? You could have 4 seasons with a theme each and you had to produce 3 photos that went together for that theme? But you'd have to take the season's photos in that season rather than being free to do it any time of the year. It would be a slower pace than the 12 monthly themes.
 
I like it as is. No need for change in my opinion.
 
srichards said:
I wonder if it would be interesting to have fewer themes but have more images for each one? You could have 4 seasons with a theme each and you had to produce 3 photos that went together for that theme? But you'd have to take the season's photos in that season rather than being free to do it any time of the year. It would be a slower pace than the 12 monthly themes.
Click to expand...

I can see the idea of a 'portfolio' approach, but at the moment we have progressively longer to take each photo as the year goes on, and I'm guessing that probably a half to a third of the time we still end up leaving it to the last minute! With today's pace of life I think further restricting the timescales by which photos have to be taken would reduce the number of people entering. It would also be virtually impossible to police.

That's the thing with any rules really, they are difficult to enforce (unless it's an obvious infringement), and voting relies on the honesty and personal integrity of those involved. I can't think of any real improvements to the current system, other than anonymous entries to reduce the likelihood (or more likely the probably unwarranted perception) of any bias, but that's probably not a realistic possibility for the reasons mentioned by Mrs Snap. Plus, it would probably also rule out stating the camera, lens and film, as not everyone has the same kit. For instance, if it's a shot using a Canon we'd instantly know it's not Andy or Fraser, as they'd turn to dust if they touched quality kit like that - sorry, I mean they're not keen on Canon cameras. ;) Kit anonymity would also stop us being impressed by technical achievement - such as wringing a cracking (but not technically perfect) shot out of a pinhole camera for instance.

After all, FPOTY is supposed to be a bit of fun (as well as a challenge to get us to push ourselves a bit) so it's probably best not to overcomplicate it and leave things as they are as they seem to be working reasonably well? :)
 
Last edited:
I've just hunted out last years thread and I reckon that, after the initial vote and 2018 draw, there are 32 unused suggestions. That should be plenty to give a good cross section throughout the year.
 
Last edited:
I think the rules have worked out pretty well this year, apart from having a separate ladies section to give @Andysnap a better chance :naughty:. Perhaps 'the volunteer' should start a theme suggestion thread with last years leftovers that we can add a few (3 or so) suggestions to and do a top 12 poll again.
 
There wasn't a top 12 poll last year. There was an initial poll which culled the least popular suggestions from the list, then Carl pulled the 12 used from a hat.
 
Mrs Snap said:
There wasn't a top 12 poll last year. There was an initial poll which culled the least popular suggestions from the list, then Carl pulled the 12 used from a hat.
Click to expand...

I blame my memory loss on that Egg Nog I had at Christmas - you are right, all but the bottom 10% went in the hat. If those go back in the mix with some additions from this year and then we vote in the same way again that would seem to work.
 
Mrs Snap said:
I was chatting about anonymous entries with someone in Scotland but that adds an enormous amount of work onto the organiser, who then wouldn't be able to take part in the vote. Also, sometimes it would be very obvious who had entered a particular photo (see my natural light portrait entry)!
Click to expand...

take it from someone who was involved in the "normal" POTY for at least 3 years of anonymous voting. It's a PITA and all the regulars can work out who's who anyway. Couple that with the unscrupilous digitals who used to PM their "clique" of mates and say "mine's no 7, get your votes in" - I used to analyse the voting patterns, and certain people used to regularly get 6-7 "plump for one" votes EVERY MONTH... Believe me, there's no point other than it ends up upsetting and disillusioning the people running the competition.

Anyway, this bit of the forum is a little more "mannerly" and to be honest, I doubt anyone would resort to anything quite so sad, pathetic, needy and yes, despicable.
 
TheBigYin said:
take it from someone who was involved in the "normal" POTY for at least 3 years of anonymous voting. It's a PITA and all the regulars can work out who's who anyway. Couple that with the unscrupilous digitals who used to PM their "clique" of mates and say "mine's no 7, get your votes in" - I used to analyse the voting patterns, and certain people used to regularly get 6-7 "plump for one" votes EVERY MONTH... Believe me, there's no point other than it ends up upsetting and disillusioning the people running the competition.

Anyway, this bit of the forum is a little more "mannerly" and to be honest, I doubt anyone would resort to anything quite so sad, pathetic, needy and yes, despicable.
Click to expand...
Very interesting, thanks @TheBigYin
 
Mrs Snap said:
I don't know why I do these things to myself :thinking:
.....but I could probably be persuaded to run FPOTY 2019 :runaway:
Click to expand...


Only if you promise not to enter this year, give the others (and me) a chance :D
 
Mrs Snap said:
I don't know why I do these things to myself :thinking:
.....but I could probably be persuaded to run FPOTY 2019 :runaway:
Click to expand...
Only if you promise to enter again and show that @Andysnap how it’s done ;)
 
It's only my first year but it seems to be working well this year as far as I am concerned. If I were to suggest changing anything it would be to allocate the points based on place in the event of a tie, e.g. if the there is tie for third place, all the people in third get 10 points, then people in fourth get 9 points, etc., even if this means that the bottom end is not used. Hopefully that would stop the gap between bottom and top getting too big.
 
It's my first part-year and I think it's fine as is. It's nice to push myself once a month, quite tricky to get things shot, and to be honest, I really enjoy seeing how others approach the themes. It improves my photography (analogue or not).

Perhaps January's entry could be selected from all photos taken in the previous year, with a very open theme to allow people to really select something good? Then in Feb it must be a photo taken that year. That gives people 8 weeks-ish to get going - and in January when the weather is typically foul and the days short (and people work), there's less scratching around for still life's. But that's just an idea. Keeping it as it is works fine for me. It's all just a bit of fun anyway.
 
sirch said:
It's only my first year but it seems to be working well this year as far as I am concerned. If I were to suggest changing anything it would be to allocate the points based on place in the event of a tie, e.g. if the there is tie for third place, all the people in third get 10 points, then people in fourth get 9 points, etc., even if this means that the bottom end is not used. Hopefully that would stop the gap between bottom and top getting too big.
Click to expand...
There was a long discussion about scoring and points last year. Essentially, if two people tie for 3rd place, there is no 4th position available. The next available place is 5th because there are already 4 entries ahead of that particular position (albeit in 1st, 2nd and =3rd). I'm sure a mathematician can explain it much better than me! If you want to have a read of the discussion (and all the other nonsense!) the thread is here https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...r-of-the-year-2018-thoughts-and-ideas.667061/

Harlequin565 said:
It's my first part-year and I think it's fine as is. It's nice to push myself once a month, quite tricky to get things shot, and to be honest, I really enjoy seeing how others approach the themes. It improves my photography (analogue or not).

Perhaps January's entry could be selected from all photos taken in the previous year, with a very open theme to allow people to really select something good? Then in Feb it must be a photo taken that year. That gives people 8 weeks-ish to get going - and in January when the weather is typically foul and the days short (and people work), there's less scratching around for still life's. But that's just an idea. Keeping it as it is works fine for me. It's all just a bit of fun anyway.
Click to expand...

The 2018 competition allowed photos to be taken anytime from the announcement of the themes i.e. from 1st December 2017. Therefore, we had 2 months to take January's entry and have 13 months to take December's entry. You're not restricted to taking the photo just in that particular month.
 
Thanks, I'm not sure I've got the stamina (or enough brain-bleach) for a 5 page F&C thread :D. I get the maths and I really don't want to reopen that debate, I just though it might be a bit more motivating if people didn't get too far from the high score too early in the year...
 
I think 2 months is plenty of time to plan and shoot January's entry, there is no reason for not getting your shot in on time, no reason at all :whistle:
 
sirch said:
Thanks, I'm not sure I've got the stamina (or enough brain-bleach) for a 5 page F&C thread :D. I get the maths and I really don't want to reopen that debate, I just though it might be a bit more motivating if people didn't get too far from the high score too early in the year...
Click to expand...
That was the main reason for giving points to so many entries as it was felt that if you kept missing points over the year you would never catch up but as it is now you're less likely to be disheartened, as if you keep finishing 6th or 7th your still amassing points.
 
RaglanSurf said:
I think 2 months is plenty of time to plan and shoot January's entry, there is no reason for not getting your shot in on time, no reason at all :whistle:
Click to expand...

and with those words, Nick gets hmself into gear to shoot Januarys entry:snaphappy:……..




...January 2020 that is !:exit::D
 
Asha said:
and with those words, Nick gets hmself into gear to shoot Januarys entry:snaphappy:……..




...January 2020 that is !:exit::D
Click to expand...
I'd still miss the deadline :D
 
RaglanSurf said:
I think 2 months is plenty of time to plan and shoot January's entry, there is no reason for not getting your shot in on time, no reason at all :whistle:
Click to expand...

Not if you have to maintain house, garden, motorbike, car, keep the grandchildren amused on visits etc etc..Anyway lets hope I can join next year with less problems (y)
I've been so busy this year that I have only finished one roll of film (24 exp) since Xmas. o_O
 
I think the rules for this year are pretty good. The way we number the places after a tied place is the most common way: 1, 2, 2, 4... The only system I've heard of that does it differently is Strictly Come Dancing (!), which goes 1, 2, 2, 3... for some complicated reason connected with combining the judges and audience votes. Not that I watch it, of course, oh no! :whistle:

Could @Carl Hall post the list of un-used themes here? Then we could get a feel whether a few more should be suggested...
 
Asha said:
Think yourself fortunate, you could have me there! :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

Safer than cycling in remote areas of France and getting shot o_O..amazing that French hunters are allowed guns to roam about shooting game inc Brits :eek:
 
ChrisR said:
The only system I've heard of that does it differently is Strictly Come Dancing (!), which goes 1, 2, 2, 3... for some complicated reason connected with combining the judges and audience votes. Not that I watch it, of course, oh no! :whistle:
Click to expand...

I can tell you exactly why they changed the scoring in Strictly! It caused a big outcry at the time because it related to the public spending money on phone calls to save a particular contestant whilst, due to a quirk of the scoring and number of competitors remaining at that point, they couldn't actually be saved :eek: tut tut!

Luckily in FPOTY, there is no phone vote and nobody gets eliminated!

Edit - in the event of a tie for first place at the end of the year do we have to go to a photo-off?? ;)
 
Last edited:
ChrisR said:
I think the rules for this year are pretty good. The way we number the places after a tied place is the most common way: 1, 2, 2, 4... The only system I've heard of that does it differently is Strictly Come Dancing (!), which goes 1, 2, 2, 3... for some complicated reason connected with combining the judges and audience votes. Not that I watch it, of course, oh no! :whistle:

Could @Carl Hall post the list of un-used themes here? Then we could get a feel whether a few more should be suggested...
Click to expand...

These were the themes that were suggested for this year, minus the ones that were voted against. The ones with *** next to them are the ones we actually used this year.

Vintage
Decay
After dark
Curve(s)
Ruin
Wood
Abstract and odd
*** Close-up or macro
Big sky
Stone
Windswept
*** Wet
Faith
Weather and it's effects
Sand
*** Still life
Water
*** Street shots
*** Wheels
*** Chains
Negative space
*** Natural light portrait
Fire
Ascending/Descending
*** Waste
*** Fake
Bright colours
Pictures within pictures or frames within the frame
Earth
Framed
*** The decisive moment
Home
Faces
Consumption
Garden
*** Speed
Sparkles
Charity
*** Airborne
Traditional(al)
Departed
Stranger portrait
Something new
Neolithic
 
Thanks Carl.

Does anyone else want to throw their hat in the ring to volunteer to organise 2019? So far, I've said I could probably be persuaded and everyone else is keeping very quiet!! Anyone else?
 
pmsl - Volunteers take two steps forward, you shuffle forward one step, and everyone else takes one step back...

and, sorry, no, I'm not volunteering - something like 4 years of running all the leaderboards and collating scores for the main bitch-fest POTY competition was more than enough for me...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top