Go easy....But go!

L

lolyton

Guest
A few pics that i have taken, and would like to hear what people have to say about them. Not bothered if people like them or not, just would like to hear what you guys have to say.
 
Nope...i don't get it, i can't put images on from my comp. Do i have to have them on the web already? Just doesn't seem to be doing it for me.[/list]
 
Ok Ok i get it now, i have just read the FAQ's. I only have images in a library on-line and that is password protected, maybe you'll just have to wait to go for it until i get them somewhere else. Sorry...didn't miss out though they are nothing special.
 
O.K. then, here goes again. I am using Imageshack at the advice of Biggus (cheers). See if this works....
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Still trying to work this stuff out, obviously! I'll get it sooner or later, just be patient with me.
 
Yay look at that, it's there. Right feeling a little more confident now, will get on and put others up.
 
wow you have a different style!

of the last 4, 1 is ok, 2 is interesting, i assume you wanted the person to be silhoetted, 3 i dont get and 4, well what were you aiming to get from 4? you have a dramatic shot that makes the people look under exposed, was that the aim?
 
4 was meant to be a mood thing, almost as though the mother and son are stuck in the countryside and all alone etc. I had thought about silhouetting the person, but had decided that i preferred there to be some detail in the shot, so held back just a little. 3 well i just liked it as a shot, i sometimes have a thing for a simple off to one side kind of look, similar thing with the fish. I have heaps of other stuff thats just as random.
 
lolyton said:
4 was meant to be a mood thing, almost as though the mother and son are stuck in the countryside and all alone etc. I had thought about silhouetting the person, but had decided that i preferred there to be some detail in the shot, so held back just a little. 3 well i just liked it as a shot, i sometimes have a thing for a simple off to one side kind of look, similar thing with the fish. I have heaps of other stuff thats just as random.
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i think with 4 you have succeeded, it is very dramatic, work on the compostion of a shot, it can improve them dramatically!

3 is a funny one, maybe crop the shot round the sign more, might make it more engaging

the silhoette shot does work...i like that.

Your doing good, keep posting them shots!
 
I hate them all with the exception of the 'mother and child' shot which I think is absolutely brilliant. Whether by design or by accident - reminds me of an old album cover for... ooh forgotten the band (Tears for Fears, maybe?), but it had a Soviet stylee image of workers in a corn field - the woman wore a red bandanna aginst a stormy sky.
 
Maybe I shouldn't use the word 'hate'...


Nope, I've thought about it and I mean it - I really hate the others...
 
Cheers Arkady, good to hear people have opinions, but maybe you could explain why you hate them!
 
Hi Lolyton,

I won't go as far as Arkady and say I hate them, but most don't do it for me either. To my eyes:

fish - seem sterile, could do with some background (plants, rock, other fish in the distance)
sillouette - seems too cluttered, either use a person or trees but both are too much
west - just looses me totally. This might be a photo that would benefit from being taken in full daylight and then greyscaling all but the signpost?
mother/child - works reasonably well, at least I see what you were aiming for

Whilst it's not my style it's one that you have obviously got well settled on, so stick with it (I think the Damien Hurst reference in one of the other threads equally applies here)

:)
 
Thank you Oz, and stick with it i shall! Always good to hear your work provokes some kind of an emotion.
 
Arkady said:
Maybe I shouldn't use the word 'hate'...


Nope, I've thought about it and I mean it - I really hate the others...
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That's a tad harsh don't you think Arkady? Hate is a strong word. I think comments like that only discourage people to post their images, especially newbies like myself who are just learning and need all the help they can get. I think we can all be a little more tactful when voicing our opinion about someone's work.
Jewel
 
I appreciate the support Jewel, but one of the things you have to learn about if you want to improve in photography is, you have to have a thick skin and understand that not everyone will like your images. However there are more constructive ways to go about it.
 
lolyton said:
I appreciate the support Jewel, but one of the things you have to learn about if you want to improve in photography is, you have to have a thick skin and understand that not everyone will like your images. However there are more constructive ways to go about it.
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I understand about having a thick skin completely and I welcome "critique" about my work from anyone as much as the next, we all want to learn and feedback is great, that's why were here right?, but being rude about it doesn't help anyone.
Cheers, jewel.
 
I would also be interested as to why Arkady hates them. This is a learning process for us all, an invaluable resource, from which those who are new to photography, including myself can learn. Being, I assume, a professional in the field of photography, maybe this kind of criticism is the norm and one us hobbyists should come to expect when seeking advice. However, I’m sure anyone new to photography and more so, new to this forum could become very disheartened by your comments. Not everyone has thick skin. I thought your comment a little harsh but to not follow up with some constructive advice leaves me none the wiser.
Having followed this thread, I have become intrigued by the first pic. I think there is something about the open door and the chair behind, which could be used more effectively. The shiny twirly light thing going on is not my cup of tea though. As already suggested the silhouette shot is good but would have been better without the trees in background.
 
I thought 'hate' was a bit strong, but I can understand why Arkady possibly didn't like them- they break pretty well ALL the rules and still don't end up succeeding IMO as a result. They all have a 'snapshot' feel about them. The fish shot would have been better filling the frame more, and placing it on a 3rds intersection does nothing to lift it.

Again, the backlit 2nd shot leaves you wondering what was the purpose - either meter for the foreground subject, or use fill flash?

The 3rd pic is intriguing, and I can see some merit it it, although I'm not sure why. I think Lolyton needs to explain this one. The comic figures and the sign pointing into the unknown darkness is quite menacing somehow. It could also very easily be the accidental result of the auto flash being killed too early by the foreground figures.

The mum and child pic conveys what Lolyton told us he wanted to capture earlier and is well placed in the frame, so it's OK.

We need to accept criticism if we're going to benefit at all. Telling each other our shots are all great all the time wont get us anywhere. There's nothing wrong with breaking the rules as long as you understand what the rules are in the first place, but the shots need to succeed as a result which they don't for me - others may disagree. Let's be nice to each other but let's be honest.

No offence intended to Lolyton, it's just my opinion after all.

:wink:
 
CT said:
We need to accept criticism if we're going to benefit at all. Telling each other our shots are all great all the time wont get us anywhere.
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Thank you CT, at least I am more aware as to why someone who in a far advanced stage of photography may have a strong dislike towards them. I too thought they had a more snap shot feel to them and inadvertently forgot to mention. The point is, at least Lolyton and others like me can learn from any criticism, if it is explained what may be wrong with the shot.
 
With regard to critique, the words posted below have been copied and edited slightly from another (larger) photography forum. Although they are at a more developed state in the cycle we are in danger of following in their footsteps so I have copied this post to provide a balanced view. It’s a long read but worth it, pleas take the time to digest as it may help both sides in this possible upset.


Now we're big boys & girls with our sooperdooper 2.4m f/1.8 cammo-covered lenses, with the latest 200fps 2Gpixel Oly-NiCanDak camera we don't want to be reminded where we've come from. Tough! We all start somewhere - and those people starting on the long road to nature-photographer'hood and their shots need our help. Besides which, that stage doesn't normally last long.

Which is where the critique bit comes in! The main purpose of posting images is to gain other peoples opinions and help regarding those images - ie. to obtain critique. A lot can be said about the art of giving and receiving critique. A few further comments on Photo Critique are needed though:

  • The primary raison d'etre for the forum is Image Critique. If you post an image in UKNP, be prepared to be given critique by default. If you do NOT want critique to be given, eg you are posting simply to share a shot of a species or behaviour, then state as much! ie. you need to Opt Out rather than Opt In

    For obtaining critique you don't necessarily have to post you best or worst photos. Pick a shot that has something that you want to know more about, and refer to that point in your posting. This will help the reviewers to target their responses.

    You may not feel "qualified" to comment, especially when there are more "vociferous" and seemingly better qualified people around. Don't be bullied into being quiet! Remember that your comments are just as valid - and might be what the other person is actually looking for.

    Equally - accept that people will hold different points of view, and will like/dislike different things. No single opinion is any more valid than another.

    When giving critique, be honest with your opinions - but do be constructive and polite too.

    Try not to just post "Great", "Wow" or "Don't like it". Bouquets and Brickbats are fine, but don't help anyone! Say why you think it is a great shot, or why you don't like it.

    It's only a photo, it isn't worth spilling blood over - if you disagree with something, then great! But remember to stay polite, not to get personal - and to buy the other person a coffee or drink when you meet them in the field ;)

    Develop a thick skin ;) Yes it can hurt sometimes, and can be a bit depressing to see that you still haven't got it right. But remember - you aren't going to gain much if you can't (or don't) bounce back after being told the problems with your photo.

    Most critiques will be about technical points rather than aesthetics. Don't, however, be afraid to comment about the aesthetics of an image! We don't have a set of rules to conform to, and we don't have to take "cookie-cutter"
    photos either.

    For those starting to give critiques, here are some ideas on what to comment on: Impact; Artistry; Creativity; Composition/framing; Colour accuracy - eg in a birds plumage; Focus; Quality of light; Subject; Camera/lens technique; Digital darkroom techniques; Presentation/Sharpness.

    For those wanting critique, it helps if the forum knows what your driving force is: Publishing commercially; Selling a few framed; Fine art; Club competitions; Just to put on your wall.

    Don't "hijack" another persons topic with your own images, or with an off-topic discussion. 'Netiquette' dictates that the polite thing to do is to start your own topic.


Finally, if you really want decent critique on shots then don't flood the forum with images. It's hard not to when you're new, excited at getting the feedback you've been craving for ages, and you're really eager to progress and get up there with the rest of the best. But remember - it takes time for people to review your images, to formulate their ideas and comments, and to put those to keyboard! A real honest critique of a half decent shot can take quite some time to formulate - and the critiquer can't get through many in one night. If you rapid fire your shots onto the forum, then you'll end up with quick & lightweight comments in return, and the people providing the critiques will get tired of giving you the same responses to the same problems - not what you're after!
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Be kind, be helpful but above all, be friends ;)
 
KenCo1964 said:
CT said:
We need to accept criticism if we're going to benefit at all. Telling each other our shots are all great all the time wont get us anywhere.
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Thank you CT, at least I am more aware as to why someone who in a far advanced stage of photography may have a strong dislike towards them. .
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That's very flattering Ken, but I don't profess to be that person. I got sidelined into wedding photography and other semi -pro stuff very early on at the expense of creative expressive photography and the extra dosh was always very welcome, but it's a real regret now. Working all he hours God sends in my regular job didn't help either.

Photographing weddings and stuff to satisfy a customer is one thing, but what we're all trying to do here is actually far more difficult. :wink:
 
KenCo1964 said:
Thank you CT, at least I am more aware as to why someone who in a far advanced stage of photography may have a strong dislike towards them.
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Thanks Ct, that wasn’t actually aimed at you, just generalising. But thanks for helping.
Ken.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the critiques i have been receiving, i am enjoying reading them all, and i am especially enjoying the fact that they are not some of yours/all of yours cup of tea. I have the thick skin that is required from us photographers (i have been in this business for a good few years to have calloused up) so i am not taking offence and nor holding any grudges, i put my images in the gallery for you guys to tell me what you think and what i can establish from these forums is that you are an honest bunch and we should all appreciate that fact, its all too common in this world for people to go around and avoid conflict by just trying to be polite.
 
lolyton said:
Hey guys, thanks for all the critiques i have been receiving, i am enjoying reading them all, and i am especially enjoying the fact that they are not some of yours/all of yours cup of tea. I have the thick skin that is required from us photographers (i have been in this business for a good few years to have calloused up) so i am not taking offence and nor holding any grudges, i put my images in the gallery for you guys to tell me what you think and what i can establish from these forums is that you are an honest bunch and we should all appreciate that fact, its all too common in this world for people to go around and avoid conflict by just trying to be polite.
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That's way cool! [smilie=t:
 
I think I'm a little late in the discussion here but I looked at all four pictures and thought little about the first three as they made no impact on me at all. The fourth, of the mother and child, is like it had been taken by someone else, and by that I mean someone with a clear understanding of what they intended to portray with the picture, and how they were going to achieve that. Every photographer has strengths and weaknesses so it might be that your strength is going to be an ability to turn out photographs of that impact.

I've got myself into a mindset of following two rules when I take a picture: 1 - do I REALLY (being totally honest with myself) like it? If not, bin it. If yes, move on to rule 2: Will other people like it? If you satisfy both rules you'll not go far wrong, in my opinion, for producing decent pictures. If you want to take it a little further another rule can be added - will it sell? I certainly like that picture, and I also think it would be a seller, (perhaps with a few tweaks), so the only thing to ask is, do you like it?
 
I've PM'd Lolyton about this and explained my reasoning behind my comment. Hate is an emotive word, but it's just a word. I do hate these images, but that doesn't mean that they're not a valiant or valid attempt.
I'm prepared to comment further after he gets back to me on this as some of you have percieved that this was a personal attack, which it wasn't.
 
Arkady said:
I've PM'd Lolyton about this and explained my reasoning behind my comment. Hate is an emotive word, but it's just a word. I do hate these images, but that doesn't mean that they're not a valiant or valid attempt.
I'm prepared to comment further after he gets back to me on this as some of you have percieved that this was a personal attack, which it wasn't.
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I personally did not see your reply as a personal attack however I feel that it would have been more helpful to expand on your reasons for saying that you hated the shots. Nobody is saying that you should like them, however without reasons and explanations people are not going to learn what it is that needs to be changed. People need assistance to develop, hitting them with a very negative comment and no other details is unfair.
 
I'm even later in this thread (there was enough going on earlier :wink: ), so here are my (hopefully constructive) comments on the four pics.

The Fish: For me this doesn't really work too well because there's little of interest in the blue water. There's nothing wrong with it, but equally nothing that grabs my imagination. Perhaps if the image was cropped so there was less water and more fish it would look more interesting to me.

Sun and Silhouette: IMO this would be better if the silhouette was darker. As it is, there's just enough detail visible to make me want to see more, which I can't - if you see what I mean!

The West: Sorry, but I'm not sure what you were aiming for here - I may just be missing something. :(

Mother and Baby: This more than makes up for any reservations I may have about the other three. It is very atmospheric, and I could imagine it being used on the sleeve of a 1970s or 1980s Pink Floyd album (which I like!). Excellent!

Just my 2p, as usual. :)
 
No one has to appologise for anything they have said about my images, i have not taken anything personally. As i mentioned before i am glad everyone is honest, and as i have found with the PM's i have received i am glad everyone is honest and also everyone has morals. I understand entirely and i appologise if i have replied to the PM's individually, but i hope this post can act as a response. As far as my images are concerned if i post them here you guys can say what ever you like..... Love them hate them i don't mind, just keep being honest! Thanks for the PM's, and i hope i haven't offended anyone by not replying to them.
:D [smilie=t:
 
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