Headshot ok or not?

Gazza166

Gazza166

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129
Name
Gary
Edit My Images
Yes
Last week I was booked to do some headshots for a company website. I had satisfactorily photographed at a party for the company boss 2 years ago and he tracked me back down to do this job for him. There were 16 to do and what I have posted is a fair example of them. It was in central London so I couldn't take to much gear, some lenses and off camera flash and shoot through umberella. They had to be done is a small room with window away from main office. They have said they are not happy with them at all but will pay but have cancelled two subsequent jobs for personal stuff that they booked at the same time. Two questions, one is it that bad, and two what would you consider the going rate per person is for a job like this. It is the first time I have ever had any real negativity from a client. You can be honest, I can take it.View attachment 94357
 
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before jumping in - did you try and find out what exactly they were not happy with? had expectations been set for something different for example?
 
For critique it's in the wrong section, I'll report for a move.

Before considering what they 'don't like' (though that's valid) my concern is.

You're asking us but you don't appear to have started with:

A detailed brief

A price for the job.

From what I can see, technically it's not a bad image, and I'd charge on the day rate/ half day rate model, rather than per person.
 
As far as the brief goes I agree it is great to be able to get a detailed description of what a client wants but this was a situation of a busy exec with no time, with a "we trust you, you know best we"ll leave it to you" attitude. I did set a price to the client which he is paying but only asked here out of curiosity. I appreciate the feedback and thanks for moving me to the correct section!
 
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It's a clean enough corporate portrait. I don't get what they would complain about to be honest - it's sharp, correctly coloured, well exposed etc. The only thing I'm not keen on is the nearly square crop...

You really need to find out what they didn't like about it and press for an answer.
 
If you don't get an answer to the question "What image do you want to project?" before starting your can end up wasting your time and theirs. If they wanted "relaxed, professional" you're on target, but as it sounds like you failed to get even a basic brief you've no measure of success. With website shots you *need* to have a lot of basic style stuff specified in advance - aspect ratio, background colour, how the set of images needs to work as a whole, etc. If you don't know the target, how do you hit it?

You need to find out from them what they're not happy about. You've lost two booked jobs with them as a direct result and they are not out there giving happy feedback and referring you to their social and business circles. If you value your business then for **** sake go talk to them. The stupidest thing you could be doing is faffing about online asking what to charge for a job the client isn't happy with!
 
Yep Alastair, everything you say is correct, I did suggest a brief of serious, professional and approachable, which they agreed with. Really the purpose of my post was to check other photographers general and technical opinion in case I had made some headshot faux pas as this is not something I do much of.
I wanted to have these opinions before I do exactly what you say and talk to them. I really appreciate your input and the time you took to answer the post.
 
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Gazza166 said:
Really the purpose of my post was to check other photographers general and technical opinion in case I had made some headshot faux pas as this is not something I do much of.
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The most likely issues aren't technical, more likely are one or more of the following types of issue:
  • Inconsistency when consistency was a requirement - gentlemen with ties, without ties; with top button buttoned, with it unbuttoned; some facing right, some facing left
  • Style issues - they wanted a specific background (white, grey, black; evenly lit, gradient); they wanted landscape format with empty space for text; they wanted a specific aspect ratio to fit a pre-existing web template; they wanted everyone facing left because the website template has the portrait positioned on the right; the sitters were all supposed to wear a specific colour or style/item of clothing
  • Personality - it happens, some people don't hit it off with each other. I doubt this is the case, but I know one local professional photographer who must be wondering why he never gets repeat business from previous clients (everyone else knows it's because he makes women deeply uncomfortable in his presence)
I suspect a lot of people reading this have been there before - I've struggled to get the styling/format requirement basics from my colleagues when shooting headshots and environmental portraits for our own website. Go get a cup of coffee, take prints of the session and a marker pen, get the client to mark on the photos what he doesn't like and what he wants done differently.
 
Gazza166 said:
Yep Alastair, everything you say is correct, I did suggest a brief of serious, professional and approachable, which they agreed with. Really the purpose of my post was to check other photographers general and technical opinion in case I had made some headshot faux pas as this is not something I do much of.
I wanted to have these opinions before I do exactly what you say and talk to them. I really appreciate your input and the time you took to answer the post.
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If this was me I'd be calling them up and having a chat. I would let them know that I do not wish to take any payment from them until they are completely happy with the product I've provided them with. I'd ask for someone to meet up and explain concisely how these shots failed and what they actually want from the shots. Now armed with the relevant info I'd reshoot. If they were happy second time round I'd get the two lost jobs back in the diary and invoice at a discounted rate for the second head-shot shoot only.

Most companies make mistakes but you'll be judged upon how you deal with those mistakes. If you walk away and just invoice them then you leave with your reputation rightfully damaged. Deal with this situation well and you could still have a customer for life.

As for the shot itself, it's impossible to say where it fails without knowing what the client wanted.
 
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I think it's ok for a corporate shot but they might not like his hair clipped at the top and his left shoulder/shirt collar is oof. We know it's DoF but to them it's out of focus?
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
If this was me I'd be calling them up and having a chat. I would let them know that I do not wish to take any payment from them until they are completely happy with the product I've provided them with. I'd ask for someone to meet up and explain concisely how these shots failed and what they actually want from the shots. Now armed with the relevant info I'd reshoot. If they were happy second time round I'd get the two lost jobs back in the diary and invoice at a discounted rate for the second head-shot shoot only.

Most companies make mistakes but you'll be judged upon how you deal with those mistakes. If you walk away and just invoice them then you leave with your reputation rightfully damaged. Deal with this situation well and you could still have a customer for life.

As for the shot itself, it's impossible to say where it fails without knowing what the client wanted.
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One of the best business posts I've seen here for many a month.
 
I might be reading too much into this but I find the fact that they are offering to pay even though they apparently don’t like the results quite significant. It seems to me that there might be some internal politics or something going on and the photos are OK but for whatever reason they can’t use them and can’t have you back for future work. If the guy who hired you isn’t returning your calls I wouldn’t push too hard, you might just cause embarrassment and upset. Just a thought.
 
Yep I think it's very possible you are correct and exactly how I feel.
 
Really great to have this sounding board of Talk Photography at our fingertips, thanks for all your valuable input!
 
Gazza166 said:
Really great to have this sounding board of Talk Photography at our fingertips, thanks for all your valuable input!
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Just remember to come back later today or tomorrow with details of what you find out from your client..
 
Could they have expected more retouching? The image seems to have brought out quite a flushed look.

If it helps, I have seen colleagues literally in tears over headshots done for the place I was employed at a few years back - nothing wrong with the images in other peoples eyes, but some people have deeply held distress over how they look, self esteem issues that are very painful and genuine for them. A situation like that is incredibly difficult to resolve.

Also sometimes its possible to say something you believe to be harmless, that can be taken the wrong way.. could you have caused any offence?

Could someone have promised a friend or relative the shoot and you have got in the way?

Ah, the internal joys of office politics :)
 
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What an incredibly intuitive response, yes I probably fell down every one of those hidden holes, I briefly showed the back of the camera to some to give encouragement and without fail they loved every pic of everyone else and didn't like their own. In the normal stuff I do weddings functions some real estate I try to fly so high above expectations and avoid any flack, this is definitely a different kettle of fish and I think you are spot on, Thank you
 
Whilst the execution is OK, I'm not so sure about the subject. He looks as though he's just come in from a night on the p*** or smoked too many Dutch cigarettes; the eyes are glazed, he's got 12 hour stubble and the grin is very sloppy.

Shooting down on the subject hasn't helped you either IMO. You've also got chromatic aberration all along the shoulder line.

There's a big difference between editorial and corporate headshots. Corporations tend to be far more reserved with flatter lighting and far more DoF.
The market is slowly changing to allow far more artistic interpretations but not at a rapid rate - especially for medium sized companies.

I'd also 100% agree with Alastair. Never start a shoot until you have a brief. At the very minimum you need intended end use, because without that, you can't price the shoot.
If usage includes web, you need to know orientation, layout, b/g etc etc as mentioned above.
 
Appreciate you posted an example shot but what where the others like....? Looks fine to me if there was no official brief .....I've done corporate shots and had feedback like ... I should have worn a tie etc....! You sound like a really nice guy and are obviously upset by the response from the client ......maybe a quick call to somebody at the firm concerned that you feel most comfortable speaking for some off the record feedback...? Doesn't have to be confrontational ...!
 
Gazza166 said:
Thanks for taking the time, some good adviceI next time I'll take my razor with me ! Lol
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It's a great idea laughing something off but can I remind you that I'm not the one with the unhappy client that's just cancelled two shoots?

Picking up on the part shaven detail is exactly what a photographer should do.

At which point you ask if it's a style/grooming thing or if he wants to sort out a quick shave.
Better that than have to reshoot.

Also, did you proof the shots with the client before you left? That'll resolve 95% of all issues on the spot.
 
Sorry DemiLion don't quite understand do you genuinely mean it is a good idea to laugh it off as in a keep things in perspective way or are you now having a little joke too?
 
DemiLion said:
Picking up on the part shaven detail is exactly what a photographer should do.
At which point you ask if it's a style/grooming thing or if he wants to sort out a quick shave. Better that than have to reshoot.
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Curious, how do you manage this without insulting the client? Its one thing to say a bit of hair is stuck up or tie not straight, but some version of 'didn't you bother to shave this morning or do you intend to look like that" is getting somewhat into sensitive areas esp if you want repeat trade.

I wonder if perhaps, when planning the shoot and talking to whoever commissions it, if it is worth giving them a handout, like so many portrait photographers do, giving guidelines about colour and patterns of clothing, corporate look, baggy stuff making people look fatter (photos showing up stubble badly?) could be helpful as then its the bosses problem to some degree as well as the sitter - and the shooter is covered?
 
MidnightUK said:
Curious, how do you manage this without insulting the client? Its one thing to say a bit of hair is stuck up or tie not straight, but some version of 'didn't you bother to shave this morning or do you intend to look like that" is getting somewhat into sensitive areas esp if you want repeat trade.

I wonder if perhaps, when planning the shoot and talking to whoever commissions it, if it is worth giving them a handout, like so many portrait photographers do, giving guidelines about colour and patterns of clothing, corporate look, baggy stuff making people look fatter (photos showing up stubble badly?) could be helpful as then its the bosses problem to some degree as well as the sitter - and the shooter is covered?
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Jay, it's important to establish a relationship with each client based on personal contact. When you first initiate contact with any customer you need to spend time to get to know them a little, put them at ease and make sure they enjoy having you around. Once done you need to nurture and maintain that relationship. You're looking to establish a relationship that is professional but also relaxed and friendly. If you've done that then dealing with details like the above is easy and offence is simply avoided. If you have no personal contact with your clients, or they don't like you, then you'll struggle and likely won't keep them as clients anyways.
 
MidnightUK said:
Curious, how do you manage this without insulting the client? Its one thing to say a bit of hair is stuck up or tie not straight, but some version of 'didn't you bother to shave this morning or do you intend to look like that" is getting somewhat into sensitive areas esp if you want repeat trade.
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People skills is an essential part of being a photographer. If you aren't using an H/MUA then you have to perform the basic appearance checks that they would normally do.
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
You're looking to establish a relationship that is professional but also relaxed and friendly. If you've done that then dealing with details like the above is easy
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Well I and a colleague did the headshots with people we worked with a lot and I can see lots of helpful comments going down OK, but not 'you need a shave' as to me its way too close to 'when did you last take a shower?' but maybe such comments are more easily made between males?


DemiLion said:
People skills is an essential part of being a photographer. If you aren't using an H/MUA then you have to perform the basic appearance checks that they would normally do.
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I suppose I don't think of beard choice as basic error, I presume its an active choice. For example I might suggest a hairstyle is disarrayed, but I would not state or imply they should get a different hair cut. How would I know if stubble was a fashion choice, or the result of some troubling skin condition that makes shaving difficult? but as I said, maybe its a guy thing and men do not take such comments as critical or rude.

My own experiences with headshots and fragile people is that some version of implying that I am questioning their chosen style would be enough to send them into a confidence crisis and the whole session would crash. But then the people I was dealing with were mostly quiet modest types, not outgoing self confident types. Maybe that makes a difference too.

I have seen people literally in tears at just the thought of thier image being taken and put on a wall. Its made me highly cautious about sounding personally critical in any way.

Ah, the joys of dealing with other people! :)
 
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I find it easiest to get someone else onto stuff like that. e.g. your contact person at their office for the shoot, they'll often have a PA / EA or someone who's job it is to warn people in advance, and wrangle everyone on the day of the shoot. Tell them to remind everyone of whatever dress code has been agreed on, and on basic grooming - shaving, make up, etc.

Last headshot job I did, one bloke got bumped to the end so he could run to the barbers down the street and get a shave while we shot the others.
 
"is it that bad" - almost irrelevant if the client isn't happy. There is nothing 'wrong' with the shot, a little bright for my taste, however, for corporate headshots I have seen better.
Google to get ideas and ask your client for samples of what they are expecting, that way it is clear. the 'leave it to you' proves it didn't work, so guidance is useful, not a failing ;)
I also agree - dont take the money until they are happy with what you produce.
 
@Gazza166 did you ever speak to the client? Would be nice to know the outcome
 
Yep, could not get anything more from them than it's nothing personal, they ended up using the shots and reinstated one of the jobs. I think it was possibly something political. I would love to know more and I might yet find out but obviously with the current state of play I can't push too hard for answers. Thanks to everyone here for their input, it's been highly educational!
 
HI Gary. glad you came back with an outcome as I logged in quite a few times to find out.
I can't imagine you will be jumping for joy on the morning of there next shoot.

Good luck going forwards.

Gaz
 
Gazza166 said:
Yep, could not get anything more from them than it's nothing personal, they ended up using the shots and reinstated one of the jobs.
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Thanks for the update,very interesting.

I suspect they cant tell you more as they find it embarrassing to the company, esp as they have reinstated your appointments etc. Someone somewhere had a hissy fit and it can't be admitted.
 
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