Help with first prints

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39
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Jon
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#1
Hi all, l’ve just started printing my own photos. I have an iMac which I have calibrated with a spider 5pro and I’ve got a canon pixma 100s. I downloaded the canon plugin for lightroom classic and made some prints today. They are lovely quality, but the the colour is not as the screen image, it’s noticably warmer. I altered the colour temperature a little, but it didn’t seem to make too much difference. Then l skipped the plugin and printed directly from LR and it was wrong again. It was also a little darker -I had assumed that spyder would reduce the screen luminance so that when I edited the image it would result in the print matching.

The paper is canon platinum glossy, it came as a freebie with the printer and I selected this from a drop down list in the paper choice in print settings.

I guess it’s something in the settings l’ve missed, but I’m hoping someone with more experience may be able to help me. Thanks in advance.

Regards
Jon
 
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#2
The standard advice is too make sure that you are not controlling the colour twice.
On Lightroom, you need to select the profile you want and not 'managed by Printer'
On the printer properties you need to have 'ColorSync' set and not 'Canon Color Matching' (on my Canon IP8750 printer those are under 'Color Matching').
 
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3,794
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Ian
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#3
Welcome to TP Jon,

Great advice from John.

In every occasion where using the proper method resulted in images that still weren't right, I moved on to try a different paper. Epson press papers were all shockingly bad even using the correct profiles (and on an Epson printer!) and it was a nightmare trying to get it right. In the end I just gave up and tried another paper until I got something that worked. Typically, Ilford, Canson and Hahnemuhle work superbly straight out of the box, Permajet & Fotospeed can be hit & miss depending on the paper, and anything else can be a total crapshoot - although I've never had decent results from Canon or Kodak paper.
 
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Gavin
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#4
Hi Jon

When you're printing (either from the plugin or directly for the LR Print module, are you choosing the correct ICC profile for your paper? That's an important step in ensuring a consistent print workflow.

If not, this page explains what you need to do from the Canon plug-in, and this page shows you how to choose an ICC profile from the LR Develop module. The Canon page suggests that profiles for their own papers are loaded when you install the driver so they should already be on your system.
 
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Gavin
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#5
With regard to the brightness of your screen, the calibration software should let you choose the brightness level you want (I generally use about 100cd/m2) and then during the calibration process, it will adjust the brightness to the required level. either automatically or by asking you to manually adjust the level (I use a Colormunki and so I'm not sure exactly how the Spyder software works by comparison!)
 
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767
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Phil
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#6
Hi and another welcome...

As with all things photographic there are a few ways of doing things, but there are pitfalls that you have to be careful to avoid.

Firstly, dark prints are usually an indication that your monitor is in fact too bright, there is no correct brightness, it will vary according to the ambient conditions and the illumination you are viewing your print under, there is a lot of advice around on how to determine what is correct for you. It can be a bit trial and error, I determine the correct luminance for my setup with a control print under a standard illuminant next to the monitor.

Perhaps you can give more information on the various stages you employ...

If using an ICC profile when printing from LR (I have never used the Canon Utility)

Select Lightroom manages colour and then select the correct ICC paper profile.

With modern Mac Canon Drivers when you select LR manages colour, colour management will be disabled (Colorsynch should be selected but will be greyed out)

Maybe it would be a good idea for you to list the various settings in the various dialogues which would make it easier to pinpoint where a problem lies.
 
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Jon S
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Jon
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#7
With regard to the brightness of your screen, the calibration software should let you choose the brightness level you want (I generally use about 100cd/m2) and then during the calibration process, it will adjust the brightness to the required level. either automatically or by asking you to manually adjust the level (I use a Colormunki and so I'm not sure exactly how the Spyder software works by comparison!)
Hi, and thanks for your reply. The problem with a iMac monitors is that the screen brightness is just a slider, with no calibrations. Perhaps there is something in the Spyder calibration process that will tell me. This isn’t too much of an issue as I can probably make a good guess with a test print as you say. The profile set up by spyder is saved in colour sync and it said it would be chosen by default. I guess I’ll have to find the setting in Lr to choose this - if that’s what you are referring to?
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#8
The standard advice is too make sure that you are not controlling the colour twice.
On Lightroom, you need to select the profile you want and not 'managed by Printer'
On the printer properties you need to have 'ColorSync' set and not 'Canon Color Matching' (on my Canon IP8750 printer those are under 'Color Matching').
Hi, many thanks, I will check that tomorrow and let you know if that’s ok
 
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Gavin
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#9
Hi, and thanks for your reply. The problem with a iMac monitors is that the screen brightness is just a slider, with no calibrations. Perhaps there is something in the Spyder calibration process that will tell me. This isn’t too much of an issue as I can probably make a good guess with a test print as you say. The profile set up by spyder is saved in colour sync and it said it would be chosen by default. I guess I’ll have to find the setting in Lr to choose this - if that’s what you are referring to?
I use a Mac too, and when I’m calibrating my monitor, I can choose how bright I want the monitor to be in the Colormunki software. As PhilH04 says, there’s no one size fits all for setting the brightness. I think most calibration software suggests 120cd/m2 by default but I found that was still too bright so now I set it around 100cd/m2. Then once the puck starts measuring, it tells me how bright the monitor actually is and I use the brightness slider to increase or decrease the brightness until it reaches the level I’ve specifed. I would imagine the Spyder is similar.

Once the Spyder has calibrated the screen and created a monotor icc profile, as you say, it loads it automatically by defiult. You don’t need to select the monitor profile anywhere in LR - what you need to do is load the correct paper icc profile when you’re printing - the links in my last post explain how to do that.
 
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6,805
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Steven
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#10
You need to softproof using the correct printer/paper profile... this changes the colors displayed to those that will be printed with that printer/paper. You then edit the colors/brightness (while softproofing) so they look as you want in the print.
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#11
You need to softproof using the correct printer/paper profile... this changes the colors displayed to those that will be printed with that printer/paper. You then edit the colors/brightness (while softproofing) so they look as you want in the print.
Hi Steven,

Thanks for the reply, do you advise using the plugin I mentioned or just going straight from Lr, or does it not matter? I’ve migrated all my stuff from Aperture, so it doesn’t help that I’m fairly new to Lr as well as printing.
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#12
I use a Mac too, and when I’m calibrating my monitor, I can choose how bright I want the monitor to be in the Colormunki software. As PhilH04 says, there’s no one size fits all for setting the brightness. I think most calibration software suggests 120cd/m2 by default but I found that was still too bright so now I set it around 100cd/m2. Then once the puck starts measuring, it tells me how bright the monitor actually is and I use the brightness slider to increase or decrease the brightness until it reaches the level I’ve specifed. I would imagine the Spyder is similar.

Once the Spyder has calibrated the screen and created a monotor icc profile, as you say, it loads it automatically by defiult. You don’t need to select the monitor profile anywhere in LR - what you need to do is load the correct paper icc profile when you’re printing - the links in my last post explain how to do that.
I’ll give that a try and check out your link in the morning, I appreciate the advice. One of the replies to my post suggests that canon paper itself is not the best option - would you agree?
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#13
Welcome to TP Jon,

Great advice from John.

In every occasion where using the proper method resulted in images that still weren't right, I moved on to try a different paper. Epson press papers were all shockingly bad even using the correct profiles (and on an Epson printer!) and it was a nightmare trying to get it right. In the end I just gave up and tried another paper until I got something that worked. Typically, Ilford, Canson and Hahnemuhle work superbly straight out of the box, Permajet & Fotospeed can be hit & miss depending on the paper, and anything else can be a total crapshoot - although I've never had decent results from Canon or Kodak paper.
Many thanks for the advice on paper, I’ll have to check out the other brands if I can’t get this to work.
 
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6,805
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Steven
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#14
Hi Steven,

Thanks for the reply, do you advise using the plugin I mentioned or just going straight from Lr, or does it not matter? I’ve migrated all my stuff from Aperture, so it doesn’t help that I’m fairly new to Lr as well as printing.
I'm not sure what plugin you're speaking of. The process in LR is pretty simple... check "softproofing" at the bottom of the develop panel, and then make sure it is using the paper/printer profile that will be used in the printing options.

Screen Shot 2019-01-09 at 2.14.38 PM.jpg
 
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136
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Gavin
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#15
I’ll give that a try and check out your link in the morning, I appreciate the advice. One of the replies to my post suggests that canon paper itself is not the best option - would you agree?
I use a HP printer, so can’t comment on the quality of Canon paper, but I’d be surprised if you couldn’t get a reasonable enough print on Canon paper from a Canon printer. If I were you, I would work with what you have for the moment while you get your printing workflow sorted in Lightroom. Once you’ve got it all straight, you can start experiment using better papers.
 
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14,341
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Nightmare
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#16
Canon printer with canon paper should be quite straightforward. Just make sure the paper type is all set same in printer menu, driver and LR (or better Photoshop) and obviously matching the paper spec.

I could only suggest recalibrating screen in daytime and unplugging the thing just in case it is picking up a bit of warm colours from the lights... Just make sure the screen doesn't look blueish and also get rid any of the color night shift option in the control panel.
 
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439
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James
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#17
@Jon S
What variant of the Spyder are you using? The express version (I think that's what it's called) which I have doesn't adjust the screen brightness.

It's taken me a while over the last few days to get the screen brightness right but by turning it down the brightness of the prints more or less match those of my screen; I was surprised how bright my screen was!

James
 
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682
Name
Jim
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#18
I have also just had a 'problem' with printing from an Epson R3000 that I bought from another forum member (nothing wrong with the printer - that's great) but the first prints are very dark - i suppose it will just be some tinkering with settings until i get it as I like it. I am considering buying inks and papers from Marrut as they will also provide profiles. Question is, which paper!?!? ;)
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#19
I use a Mac too, and when I’m calibrating my monitor, I can choose how bright I want the monitor to be in the Colormunki software. As PhilH04 says, there’s no one size fits all for setting the brightness. I think most calibration software suggests 120cd/m2 by default but I found that was still too bright so now I set it around 100cd/m2. Then once the puck starts measuring, it tells me how bright the monitor actually is and I use the brightness slider to increase or decrease the brightness until it reaches the level I’ve specifed. I would imagine the Spyder is similar.

Once the Spyder has calibrated the screen and created a monotor icc profile, as you say, it loads it automatically by defiult. You don’t need to select the monitor profile anywhere in LR - what you need to do is load the correct paper icc profile when you’re printing - the links in my last post explain how to do that.
Hi there,

I’ve just had another go. Re-calibrated the screen, And selected use icc profile in the print settings. It must have been on a default setting before, and the print is correct. I also changed print quality to high, although this didn’t seem to make a difference, certainly not at a4 at any rate. Many thanks for your help. The plugin is canon print studio pro, as far as I can see it just lets you select from a list of specific canon papers.



I use a Mac too, and when I’m calibrating my monitor, I can choose how bright I want the monitor to be in the Colormunki software. As PhilH04 says, there’s no one size fits all for setting the brightness. I think most calibration software suggests 120cd/m2 by default but I found that was still too bright so now I set it around 100cd/m2. Then once the puck starts measuring, it tells me how bright the monitor actually is and I use the brightness slider to increase or decrease the brightness until it reaches the level I’ve specifed. I would imagine the Spyder is similar.

Once the Spyder has calibrated the screen and created a monotor icc profile, as you say, it loads it automatically by defiult. You don’t need to select the monitor profile anywhere in LR - what you need to do is load the correct paper icc profile when you’re printing - the links in my last post explain how to do that.
 
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136
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Gavin
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#20
Hi there,

I’ve just had another go. Re-calibrated the screen, And selected use icc profile in the print settings. It must have been on a default setting before, and the print is correct. I also changed print quality to high, although this didn’t seem to make a difference, certainly not at a4 at any rate. Many thanks for your help. The plugin is canon print studio pro, as far as I can see it just lets you select from a list of specific canon papers.
That’s excellent! (y) Glad you got it sorted.
 
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Jon S
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39
Name
Jon
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#21
@Jon S
What variant of the Spyder are you using? The express version (I think that's what it's called) which I have doesn't adjust the screen brightness.

It's taken me a while over the last few days to get the screen brightness right but by turning it down the brightness of the prints more or less match those of my screen; I was surprised how bright my screen was!

James
Hi James, it’s a spyder 5 pro. I think I missed a couple of drop down boxes and didn’t adjust the brightness properly, as I’ve re done it and it seems ok.
 
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Jon S
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39
Name
Jon
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#22
I'm not sure what plugin you're speaking of. The process in LR is pretty simple... check "softproofing" at the bottom of the develop panel, and then make sure it is using the paper/printer profile that will be used in the printing options.

Many thanks on this, I had missed the soft proof boxes. It all seemed so much simpler in a darkroom in the mid 80s!

View attachment 234699 View attachment 234699
 
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Jon S
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39
Name
Jon
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#23
The standard advice is too make sure that you are not controlling the colour twice.
On Lightroom, you need to select the profile you want and not 'managed by Printer'
On the printer properties you need to have 'ColorSync' set and not 'Canon Color Matching' (on my Canon IP8750 printer those are under 'Color Matching').
Many thanks John, using yours and the other advice here, my print was ok this morning.
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#24
Canon printer with canon paper should be quite straightforward. Just make sure the paper type is all set same in printer menu, driver and LR (or better Photoshop) and obviously matching the paper spec.

I could only suggest recalibrating screen in daytime and unplugging the thing just in case it is picking up a bit of warm colours from the lights... Just make sure the screen doesn't look blueish and also get rid any of the color night shift option in the control panel.
Many thanks - the print came out ok today :)
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#25
Hello again folks. Thanks for all your help last time - now for b&w. My original raw files were edited in an app called tonality as I like some of the film simulations, it seems to turn the files into tiffs - is this ok for Lr printing? Anyway my first print came out very grey, like someone had just turned the contrast right down. I selected the correct matte photo paper profile, but I’m not sure where I went wrong. Any help appreciated.

Many thanks
Jon
 
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6,805
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Steven
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#28
If the app/file is using a color space like aRGB or ProPhoto, and it's not being interpreted/converted correctly by the printer/profile, you can have issues. I.e. aRGB often prints dull/flat when interpreted as sRGB.
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#29
If the app/file is using a color space like aRGB or ProPhoto, and it's not being interpreted/converted correctly by the printer/profile, you can have issues. I.e. aRGB often prints dull/flat when interpreted as sRGB.
What would be the best way to remedy this, is there a particular setting in Lr that I should change?
 
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Jon S
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Jon
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#30
That’s excellent! (y) Glad you got it sorted.
Hello again, I,ve tried b&w and it’s come out all grey and flat, not at all like the image I edited in the Tonality app and imported into Lr as a tiff. Any ideas on how to resolve this, is there a setting I should change when switching from colour printing to b&w?
Thanks in advance.
 
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439
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James
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#31
Jon,

Just a thought but are you double profiling? For example setting the profile in lightroom and having not disabled the profiling in the printer through the printer driver?

Perhaps you could try exporting the tiff as a jpg in Lightroom and then printing that. Does that make sense?

James
 
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Jon S
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Jon
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#32
Jon,

Just a thought but are you double profiling? For example setting the profile in lightroom and having not disabled the profiling in the printer through the printer driver?

Perhaps you could try exporting the tiff as a jpg in Lightroom and then printing that. Does that make sense?

James
Hi James,

A couple of questions - how do I disable the profiling through the printer driver - in the printer settings? And what do I change it to? Also is there any setting I should be using in Lr when printing in b&w? And I can print from a jpeg, I’d rather use a higher quality file like a tiff though.
 
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439
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James
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#33
Hi James,

A couple of questions - how do I disable the profiling through the printer driver - in the printer settings? And what do I change it to? Also is there any setting I should be using in Lr when printing in b&w? And I can print from a jpeg, I’d rather use a higher quality file like a tiff though.

In the LR print module scroll down to Colour Management and set the profile for your paper in there first of all.
1547669317772.png

Then, click printer and the print driver box will appear
1547669351280.png

Click properties and set your media type (paper manufacturer should give you this), print quality, size and source.
1547669429616.png

Then click "main" and this screen will appear and the set manual for the option under intensity. TBC because I can only attach three items.
 
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439
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James
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#34
1547669577903.png

Then click Matching and set it to none:
1547669626885.png


OK your way back to the start and the print will begin.

Hope that's of some help,
James

PS with regards to the jpg, it was only so we could rule out the file format having an impact on the print.
 
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767
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Phil
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#35
As James says... however only the first screen capture is relevant as the other captures are of a Windows driver, not a Mac... Modern Canon drivers on a Mac will disable Colour Management when the correct profile is selected in the driver. When you bring up the colour management tab ColorSynch should be selected but greyed out. You must make sure that the correct media is selected etc.

You can also select to print in grey scale which may help.

The colour space of the image shouldn't really make any difference to the print.

Can you do screen captures (cmd - shift - 3 for full screen, cmd - shift - 4 to select an area of the screen ) of the various steps you take when printing?
 
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Jon S
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39
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Jon
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#36
As James says... however only the first screen capture is relevant as the other captures are of a Windows driver, not a Mac... Modern Canon drivers on a Mac will disable Colour Management when the correct profile is selected in the driver. When you bring up the colour management tab ColorSynch should be selected but greyed out. You must make sure that the correct media is selected etc.

You can also select to print in grey scale which may help.

The colour space of the image shouldn't really make any difference to the print.

Can you do screen captures (cmd - shift - 3 for full screen, cmd - shift - 4 to select an area of the screen ) of the various steps you take when printing?
Hi Phil,
As James says... however only the first screen capture is relevant as the other captures are of a Windows driver, not a Mac... Modern Canon drivers on a Mac will disable Colour Management when the correct profile is selected in the driver. When you bring up the colour management tab ColorSynch should be selected but greyed out. You must make sure that the correct media is selected etc.

You can also select to print in grey scale which may help.

The colour space of the image shouldn't really make any difference to the print.

Can you do screen captures (cmd - shift - 3 for full screen, cmd - shift - 4 to select an area of the screen ) of the various steps you take when printing?

Hi Phil, thanks for the message. Here's some screen shots of the stages. I have b&W selected in the develop screen in Lr. One of the dropdown boxes here shows adobe monochrome, but I have it set to B&W 12 - is that right?. The paper profile is set to canon glossy (that's all I have - I didn't like the matte) and in the printer dialogue box there's a drop down box including colour matching etc, I'm not sure what to select here.

Screen Shot 2019-01-17 at 10.35.14.png

Screen Shot 2019-01-17 at 10.23.53.png

Screen Shot 2019-01-17 at 10.26.35.png
 
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Jon S
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39
Name
Jon
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#37
As James says... however only the first screen capture is relevant as the other captures are of a Windows driver, not a Mac... Modern Canon drivers on a Mac will disable Colour Management when the correct profile is selected in the driver. When you bring up the colour management tab ColorSynch should be selected but greyed out. You must make sure that the correct media is selected etc.

You can also select to print in grey scale which may help.

The colour space of the image shouldn't really make any difference to the print.

Can you do screen captures (cmd - shift - 3 for full screen, cmd - shift - 4 to select an area of the screen ) of the various steps you take when printing?

another point was this - I wasn't sure what to turn off and where

Screen Shot 2019-01-17 at 10.44.19.png
 
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439
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James
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#38
As James says... however only the first screen capture is relevant as the other captures are of a Windows driver, not a Mac... Modern Canon drivers on a Mac will disable Colour Management when the correct profile is selected in the driver. When you bring up the colour management tab ColorSynch should be selected but greyed out. You must make sure that the correct media is selected etc.

You can also select to print in grey scale which may help.

The colour space of the image shouldn't really make any difference to the print.

Can you do screen captures (cmd - shift - 3 for full screen, cmd - shift - 4 to select an area of the screen ) of the various steps you take when printing?
AHH I didn't pick up that Jon was using a Mac.

James
 
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767
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Phil
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#40
Hi Jon... Sorry away from my computer at the moment and busy trying to sell our house in order to move to Devon...

Try not using one of the Adobe creative profiles as they are simply stylising the image and the TIFF file will have a profile 'baked' in anyway.

As long as you have selected the correct profile in the print dialogue then colour management will be disabled, you can check this by going into 'Color Matching' - 'ColorSynch' should be selected but greyed out...

Make sure that in 'Quality and Media' that the correct paper is selected, I believe you can also select 'Greyscale' printing in the same place.
 
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