How to sort the problems out in this section.

[simonblue]

I have used the Ignore button twice,works great

 

[pooley]

A lot of what you said there is right John, but comments like the ones on your heron thread are not the problem here. They were out of order and were dealt with accordingly.

The real problem is the bitching and sly uncalled for comments which is where in my opinion the mods really need to crack down hard, and the solution is very simple.

Option 1 - behave like a decent adult

Option 2 - get banned for the good of the forum

 

[gramps]

The real problem is the bitching and sly uncalled for comments which is where in my opinion the mods really need to crack down hard, and the solution is very simple.

Option 1 - behave like a decent adult

Option 2 - get banned for the good of the forum

 

[FourRingCircus]

Just thought about another issue in here - there are photographers and there are birders. There's very few who are expert in both.

I would probably post a crap iPhone pic of a Golden Oriole in here, just to prove I'd seen one! I know that's not what this section is about though. That makes me more of a birder than a photographer.

By contrast, a totally wonderful shot of a robin won't get me clicking in to view it, I'm afraid.

So, I'm now a self-proclaimed intermediate photographer who only wants to see (and post) the less mundane stuff. Despite being no expert, I'm also happy to dispense critique, as you don't need to be an expert to see what's wrong with a capture - even if it's better than your own standards. I think a lot of people fail to post their observations because they don't like to say what they think. I'm still learning from Brian (Brash) when it comes to being brutal, but I'm a good bit younger than him and I could see myself achieving his level of directness without too much practise!!!

 

[BillN_33]

singing outside as i type

 

[simonblue]

A lot of what you said there is right John, but comments like the ones on your heron thread are not the problem here. They were out of order and were dealt with accordingly.

The real problem is the bitching and sly uncalled for comments which is where in my opinion the mods really need to crack down hard, and the solution is very simple.

Option 1 - behave like a decent adult

Option 2 - get banned for the good of the forum

Another

 

[mex]

Just thought about another issue in here - there are photographers and there are birders. There's very few who are expert in both.

Then there are those that claim to be a birder, but when you read their post/s it becomes increasingly obvious they are simply taking their point of view straight out of a fieldguide and when you dare crit their shots they get all too defensive and even aggresive to a point, so neither a birder nor togger.

 

[BillN_33]

Then there are those that claim to be a birder, but when you read their post/s it becomes increasingly obvious they are simply taking their point of view straight out of a fieldguide and when you dare crit their shots they get all too defensive and even aggresive to a point, so neither a birder nor togger.

From reading the thread so far it would seem to have lots of different individuals who are causing issues.

Photographers who think they are photographers and are not

Birders who think that they are birders and are not

Some photographer/birders who are neither and no good at either

Trolls

Nasty people who criticise all

Guys with hidden agendas who just seem to go for certain individuals


I have never really noticed the first three and have only occasionally noticed the last two but would admit to seeing the odd long time member entering his ego for consideration and taking ownership of “the patch” …….. which is quite normal but can be as disruptive as the contribution made by the other "guilty" parties.
"Snide" comments are easy to formulate if you have the time

Now as we all look around at each other, to me it’s a good forum with some really good and considerate guys posting lots of very well taken images……… not sure what all the fuss is about …………lets look at the positives and try to make more useful contributions

 

[u8myufo]

Then there are those that claim to be a birder, but when you read their post/s it becomes increasingly obvious they are simply taking their point of view straight out of a fieldguide and when you dare crit their shots they get all too defensive and even aggresive to a point, so neither a birder nor togger.

You put that so much better than what I could have Nigel. And it probably answers Rich`s (Lost) question where have all the regulars gone, for the exact same reasons. And I do not refer to regulars who have just 2k of posts, spitting the dummy at the first mention of something wrong with a picture in this forum has been a increasing trend over the last year. Perhaps that is how it is going to be, but given the fact this place is called Talk Photography makes it a joke imo. But hey, those that spit the dummy live to see another day whilst the others either leave on their own free will after getting fed up with it all or get banned for speaking their mind. Like I said many a time there were times when having a little argument or disagreement over a photo was the norm, even a newbie with the most experienced of bird photographers on here. Threads never ever got locked, those that were having those heated debates would always agree to disagree and move on until the next time, and there always was a next time. But then thats how people learned stuff, many a time I had been proved wrong and was not scared to admit it, now look at it. If you mention something it just seems to deflate the OP`s ego, which we cannot have can we? I guess this is only going out to 2% of the audience if that, so it`s neither here or there I suppose.

 

[FourRingCircus]

singing outside as i type

Where's that bloody ignore button?

I would (almost) die happy with that Bill - but it would have to be here and not over there!

Some photographer/birders who are neither and no good at either

That could be me then?

 

[Trev4]

Being one of the old timers who can remember the forum in general, and the birding section in particular, being a place where experienced photographers were only too pleased to offer help to newcomers, and they got a lot of satisfaction from it. The newbies (then) have either changed their hobbies, or have gone on to improve and are able to offer constructive critique in the way that they were first helped. The forum was a friendly place and it was a pleasure to be a member. It wasn't necessary to analyse the type of member they were, most were taken at face value and welcomed.
Sadly a new style of member has shown their faces, either because they enjoy being a troll, or they are looking to have their ego massaged Flicker style.

Its often said that if you don't like a television program, then use the off button, this has also applied to the forum. A member recently asked where a lot of the old timers from the birding section are now as they don't seem to post any more. The answer is simple, they have chosen to use the off button and moved on, the reason why is clear when you read this thread in particular, and the other threads in general.

Recently, Mathew (MWHCVT) started a movement to try to get this friendliness and constructive criticism going again. Initially it seemed to work, and I along with a few others took part. It seems to have now gone by the wayside and the forum has got back into its newer style of bitching and sniping just for the fun of it.

I don't have any answers, its a shame to say it, but perhaps the forum has become too large and uncontrollable. Apart from laying down and implementing much stricter guidelines, then I feel the forum is going to continue in its present form, with a continual change of members due to the ill feeling that is being caused for the reasons already mentioned in this thread.

 

[BillN_33]

Where's that bloody ignore button?

I would (almost) die happy with that Bill - but it would have to be here and not over there!

John, The little buggers are miles away and never let me get anywhere near them ……….. it is almost worth a trip to S Africa, (apart from it being a marvellous country), to get near enough to one to get a good shot ……… but then they are not seen as special there …………..

pity about what seem to be happening to the Forum ……… I've never really noticed it and am quite happy to accept the odd "snide' remark if it makes someone happy

 

[Cuddy]

Nice photo, like that, have there place called feedback. Crit when not asked for can be unnecessary. Nothing wrong with posting images of unusual birds its a forum about birds that includes photography and the subject matter itself, both can engender comments.

A bit more live and let live required, worst snide remark i ever had was soon after joining by someone who is now a mod. Ive pretty much given up posting images here anymore, i do however help out on ID if i can, and try to comment on images that are ignored. My way of supporting posters. I think some of the moderation on here has been a bit heavy handed and seems some need to take a step back. Its a hobby that has many aspects to it.

 

[pooley]

You put that so much better than what I could have Nigel. And it probably answers Rich`s (Lost) question where have all the regulars gone, for the exact same reasons. And I do not refer to regulars who have just 2k of posts, spitting the dummy at the first mention of something wrong with a picture in this forum has been a increasing trend over the last year. Perhaps that is how it is going to be, but given the fact this place is called Talk Photography makes it a joke imo. But hey, those that spit the dummy live to see another day whilst the others either leave on their own free will after getting fed up with it all or get banned for speaking their mind. Like I said many a time there were times when having a little argument or disagreement over a photo was the norm, even a newbie with the most experienced of bird photographers on here. Threads never ever got locked, those that were having those heated debates would always agree to disagree and move on until the next time, and there always was a next time. But then thats how people learned stuff, many a time I had been proved wrong and was not scared to admit it, now look at it. If you mention something it just seems to deflate the OP`s ego, which we cannot have can we? I guess this is only going out to 2% of the audience if that, so it`s neither here or there I suppose.

I don't take issue with your post Rich, like John's I mentioned earlier, most of it is correct. However, the main problem here at the moment is ganging up and lack of manners. Now, I've never had a direct problem with anyone in this section, lest of all yourself, but I'm fed up to the back teeth of all the trolling and sniping on certain threads.

What you haven't made reference to is this lack of common decency, so what are your views on trolling and member baiting?

 

[Romany]

Ive got the ignore tool used, and agree its useful....for me,

 

[big soft moose]

I don't take issue with your post Rich, like John's I mentioned earlier, most of it is correct. However, the main problem here at the moment is ganging up and lack of manners. Now, I've never had a direct problem with anyone in this section, lest of all yourself, but I'm fed up to the back teeth of all the trolling and sniping on certain threads.

What you haven't made reference to is this lack of common decency, so what are your views on trolling and member baiting?

That

plus the misuse of the ignore button by those who want to have a sly dig but are too passive aggressive to post it themselves

if everyone stuck to posting pictures of birds and/or giving critique on the pictures posted / accepting said critique graciously and/or disputing it in a logical and calm manner there wouldn't be any need for either the RTM button or the Ignore button.

The problem with the ignore function (which I have used and not being able to see three people's posts has made TP a much calmer experience) is that when it kicks off in here its often like a bar fight, and short of ignoring everyone there's no way not to see it

Likewise the like button is for when you like a picture or a comment - it isn't for agreeing when someone has a pop at another member.

(it would also be great if you couldn't see likes made by people you have on ignore - though I appreciate that that probably isn't feasible without a lot of hand coding)

 

[big soft moose]

Well that rules you out sunshine.............

I asked for that - though tbf I only post like a partial wassock, and never in this section ( I mostly reserve my wassockation for OOF)

 

[Gremlin]

I asked for that - though tbf I only post like a partial wassock, and never in this section ( I mostly reserve my wassockation for OOF)

 

[fracster]

Wassockation.......i like that and may start using it.

 

[u8myufo]

I don't take issue with your post Rich, like John's I mentioned earlier, most of it is correct. However, the main problem here at the moment is ganging up and lack of manners. Now, I've never had a direct problem with anyone in this section, lest of all yourself, but I'm fed up to the back teeth of all the trolling and sniping on certain threads.

What you haven't made reference to is this lack of common decency, so what are your views on trolling and member baiting?

I do not think for one moment you have taken issue with me Mike. I will tell you how it is, as for me personally. The trolling and baiting was nothing compared to two or three Pm`s I received last year, and for what? Of all things pointing out something was not right in a photo. I have written another 10 paragraphs out but deleted again as I feel it`s better to keep a few facts and home truths to myself. Yes the baiting and trolling will stop from me, but will the real problem ever get sorted? I doubt it very much.

 

[Yv]

I asked for that - though tbf I only post like a partial wassock, and never in this section ( I mostly reserve my wassockation for OOF)

 

[pooley]

Fair response Rich.

If it just becomes a case of member X doesn't like member Y but can stay out of each others threads then that's all that can be asked and expected, and that should solve 90% of the issues in the bird section.

The other 10% (crap critique, dummy spitting, differences over birder / photographer) will never change and it would be unrealistic to expect a random cross section of photographers to always agree, so that would be good enough for me

 

[big soft moose]

 

[lost]

You put that so much better than what I could have Nigel. And it probably answers Rich`s (Lost) question where have all the regulars gone, for the exact same reasons. And I do not refer to regulars who have just 2k of posts, spitting the dummy at the first mention of something wrong with a picture in this forum has been a increasing trend over the last year. Perhaps that is how it is going to be, but given the fact this place is called Talk Photography makes it a joke imo. But hey, those that spit the dummy live to see another day whilst the others either leave on their own free will after getting fed up with it all or get banned for speaking their mind. Like I said many a time there were times when having a little argument or disagreement over a photo was the norm, even a newbie with the most experienced of bird photographers on here. Threads never ever got locked, those that were having those heated debates would always agree to disagree and move on until the next time, and there always was a next time. But then thats how people learned stuff, many a time I had been proved wrong and was not scared to admit it, now look at it. If you mention something it just seems to deflate the OP`s ego, which we cannot have can we? I guess this is only going out to 2% of the audience if that, so it`s neither here or there I suppose.

Hi Rich
Nicely put how are you keeping I only heard of your illness a couple of weeks ago I hope you are on the mend.
It might be me but the bird section seems to have really changed and not for the better I came back on really to try and get some interest back in posting I used to enjoy sharing my images and seeing other peoples and having the odd meet up along the way plus a bit of banter. That's one reason I started the short eared owl thread with the facts bit. It helps me to learn more about the subject I am interested in and also to make me process and sort all my old images.
I really can't be bothered to get into threads where people are having a go at one another I like to find more productive ways to spend my time

I notice some people ignore certain authors.
By ignoring some one you may miss something of interest to you on a thread. Some people do put nice image one reason for this is people are not wanting to step on peoples toes saying what could improve a image because they know there is a fair chance the author may spit their dummy out of the pram the bird section is getting well known for this. Because people have become so thin skinned the trolls know they will get a bite out of someone then sides are taken and we find ourselves back here wondering why it's happening. One thing about me is I have a skin thicker than a Rhino so if people want to critique any of my images they can I don't bite:rage: well not often.

The only way we can change what is going on is to be helpful and don't always point out the faults first but mention what's good about an image then suggest what would improve the image in a more subtle way. When the trolls come on ignore them completely they only get their kicks when people reply.
If that doesn't work I suggest a dark alley and a
Regards All
Richard

 

[Cobra]

A bit more live and let live required, worst snide remark i ever had was soon after joining by someone who is now a mod.

We have a sweepstake running in the staffroom on that one,
as soon as they fess up it will be 20 lashes with a soggy jaffa cake box,
And bog cleaning duties for a week (With their own tooth brush too!)

I think some of the moderation on here has been a bit heavy handed and seems some need to take a step back. Its a hobby that has many aspects to it.

Of course you know we can't win?
We get almost daily reports from members suggesting that we are either too hard
or indeed too soft.
I'm guessing that is in direct relationship to which side of the abuse,
or ban hammer you happen to be siting on, at the time.

 

[MWHCVT]

We have a sweepstake running in the staffroom on that one,
as soon as they fess up it will be 20 lashes with a soggy jaffa cake box,
And bog cleaning duties for a week (With their own tooth brush too!)


Of course you know we can't win?
We get almost daily reports from members suggesting that we are either too hard
or indeed too soft.
I'm guessing that is in direct relationship to which side of the abuse,
or ban hammer you happen to be siting on, at the time.

All you mods are on a power trip , I've nearly lost count on the number of posts of mine have been deleted, if anymore get nuked I'll have to take my damned shoes off and I'll be honest I'm not sure I can stand that smell

 

[Cobra]

All you mods are on a power trip , I've nearly lost count on the number of posts of mine have been deleted,

I make that a "round hundred" including that one that will slip into oblivion too,
if you even think about removing your foot wear, while I'm logged on!

 

[MWHCVT]

I make that a "round hundred" including that one that will slip into oblivion too,
if you even think about removing your foot wear, while I'm logged on!

I honestly cannot think of that many I've had deleted from memory, I suspect it's just that I'm to dull to get in trouble...too much anyway...that said life's too short to worry about being censored by the demonic overlords, this reminds me time to sacrifice another innocent to keep the mighty marcel appeased

Oh and I sorted the feet issue I just soak them in hot wax, it traps the smell for a few days

 

[Cobra]

I honestly cannot think of that many I've had deleted from memory, I suspect it's just that I'm to dull to get in trouble...too much anyway...that said life's too short to worry about being censored by the demonic overlords, this reminds me time to sacrifice another innocent to keep the mighty marcel appeased

Oh and I sorted the feet issue I just soak them in hot wax, it traps the smell for a few days

We don't delete many TBH, the spam obviously gets splattered the minute we spot it,
or its RTM'd to us.
Obvious personal attacks are deleted,
"material" that is obviously offensive, or totally unsuitable,
goes too.
But that's really all.
Oh and "thread tidying" ( But usually in the classifieds though) of course.

And thank the Lord for "Hot wax"

 

[MWHCVT]

We don't delete many TBH, the spam obviously gets splattered the minute we spot it,
or its RTM'd to us.
Obvious personal attacks are deleted,
"material" that is obviously offensive, or totally unsuitable,
goes too.
But that's really all.
Oh and "thread tidying" ( But usually in the classifieds though) of course.

And thank the Lord for "Hot wax"

To be honest one of the only things I miss from the old forum was something that came in towards the end where posts were not actually removed from the thread but were sort of frozen when edited by a mod, so that it was clear why and what action had been taken, it proved IMO to show not only that someone had been warned/acted on and that was a positive, sometimes when a post just vanishes it doesn't have the same effect as it did have, if that makes sense

 

[dinners]

I've never used the ignore button.

If there was anybody I felt strongly enough about to ignore - I'd want to see what they were saying.

 

[Cobra]

when a post just vanishes it doesn't have the same effect as it did have, if that makes sense

I know exactly what you mean Matt.
TBH I thought that you could still see that? Obviously not, in that case.
We do still leave a comment.
I'll 'ave a word @Marcel to see if it can be reinstated.

I've never used the ignore button.
If there was anybody I felt strongly enough about to ignore - I'd want to see what they were saying.

"We" can't ignore either, but TBH, like you, I'm too friggin nosy to to do so, even if I could

 

[MWHCVT]

I know exactly what you mean Matt.
TBH I thought that you could still see that? Obviously not, in that case.
We do still leave a comment.
I'll 'ave a word @Marcel to see if it can be reinstated.


"We" can't ignore either, but TBH, like you, I'm too friggin nosy to to do so, even if I could

Would be good if I can come back eventually but don't tell him I said it I suspect he gets fed up of ideas I have

I have a similar issue with having people on ignore and being noisy, but often with just a few minutes off ignore I'm soon reminded why said person is on ignore

 

[dinners]

How about an 'ingore me' button ?

Then you could choose who can't see what you write

 

[AHILL]

My wife & I discussed this last night and we both agreed that the forums have become "TwitterPated" (a Social media site)

Our experience's on TP would suggest the problems with the bird & wildlife forums are not new, these sections have been clique for years which is one reason why we no longer post images.

 

[gramps]

Our experience's on TP would suggest the problems with the bird & wildlife forums are not new, these sections have been clique for years which is one reason why we no longer post images.

It is a shame that you feel you can no longer post images but I know what you mean - there is very little welcoming spirit from some here, and it seems they just look for an opportunity to belittle others ... the quicker they go, the better for all aspects of the forum. In truth though, they are to be pitied as they obviously have a serious lack of self confidence and find it necessary to belittle others in order to attempt to elevate their own ego.

 

[mex]

Over the last 3 or 4 years I have been visiting TP there a few things that seem to spring up on a regular basis, firstly some new members appear to post like crazy with comments like 'good shot' or 'great shot' and the like,not because they can't think of anything else to write, (and sometimes giving critique is in its self an art form that very few people have the gift of using )but I think its just to get themselves the required number of posts to use the classifieds ( I think most of us did it?) . Secondly, a shot gets put up that is clearly worthy of praise,but the poster is perhaps a newbie or not in 'the clique' so gets very few (sometimes none) comments or crits,on the otherhand a very average shot gets uploaded by Mr Toenails (as that is all he left hanging out of his @rse) to boost his personal (already) over-inflated ego and that gets a plethora of B.S. comments and praise of something that really should have been deleted. If you browse back over the some of the threads there are some stunning shots from Mr. Nobody and Mr. Newbie that are bloody good efforts,yet have next to no comments, did'nt there used to be a button that showed posts with no comments or did I imagine it?. Also,and maybe I'm wrong ,but, I think there may be some who are deliberately trying to get 'baited' by posting a shot that they know what is wrong/right with it, just to get an arguement going and then get themselves the sympathy vote (no names,no pack drill). If you can't handle critism,or don't want anyone to comment on your shot or thread,why not just say so?. Just a few observations.

 

[BillN_33]

I'm relatively new here - lots of issues seem to be being highlighted

are these problems of the past or the "here and now"

has the section been moderated in an independent, none personalised and unbiased way?

 

[u8myufo]

It is a shame that you feel you can no longer post images but I know what you mean - there is very little welcoming spirit from some here, and it seems they just look for an opportunity to belittle others ... the quicker they go, the better for all aspects of the forum. In truth though, they are to be pitied as they obviously have a serious lack of self confidence and find it necessary to belittle others in order to attempt to elevate their own ego.

With all due respect Gramps I will make one thing clear. Now unless I am mistaken you have only started coming in this section for about a year maybe, but like I say I could be wrong. In the time I have spent in here I can categorically state that I have never seen any instance of members belittling others. I hope the Mods will back me up on that one, as @AHILL points out it has become TwitterPated, again this was something Fracster pointed out a long long time ago. Mike (Pooley) mentions in his reply "If it just becomes a case of member X doesn't like member Y but can stay out of each others threads then that's all that can be asked and expected " Why should it have to be like that Gramps? Well I will tell you now "X" was really impressed with "Y" at one point, his photography had come on leaps and bounds in a very short space of time from first posting in here. I reached a standard with my photography that I was happy with, I had neither the time or money to pursue it further, therefore I spent my spare time trying to help others and commenting as much as I could. Cedric (CT) did exactly the same with me when I started out, he helped me as much as he could, as soon as he noticed I had got to a decent standard and had an understanding of things he backed off.

CT would rarely comment from that point on, maybe now and then to tell me I had messed up completely, but did I get all worked up over that? Of coarse not I respected the fact that if he said it did not look right then it wasn`t right, end of! So Gramps "X" adopted the same approach with his C&C when he gave it to newbies, as soon as I could see they were doing ok I would leave them to it, again perhaps pointing out occasionally if something did not seem right. This method seemed to work pretty well imo, and then one day, for a reason that still makes me wonder why, "Y" takes offence at the slightest mention something is wrong. It starts to get so bad it then spreads to his oppo mate "Z" who up until that point was quite happy to accept anything I noticed out of place and mentioned, and so the rot started to set in to this section. I have never been good with words Gramps so I hope I (X) have explained myself a bit, I wonder if "Y" has the gut`s to put his feelings across, to discuss it like a man and sort it all out once and for all?

A bit strange that as this evolves around "Y" that we have had no comment from him yet. And whilst I am here I will state my biggest gripe, posting shot after shot of the same species. I got no probs with how many get put up but it was written that if you do, then keep it in one thread. If you are going to be taking shots of the same species over a period of time then why not? Those that are interested enough will know who is taking pictures of what and will search out the OP concerned. I dont give a rats for myself but I feel sorry for those looking for help and who post in here for the reason the Mods gave us this section, and what happens is their thread just gets overlooked.

 

[u8myufo]

I'm relatively new here - lots of issues seem to be being highlighted

are these problems of the past or the "here and now"

has the section been moderated in an independent, none personalised and unbiased way?

Never had them in the past Bill