How to sort the problems out in this section.

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Matt

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i would love to see mre critique and honest appraisals, and more people taking it with grace and in the spirit its intended. TP started out like that and was at its best when thats what people wanted and expected. it annoys me when someone spits a dummy when told that the image would look better if it was straight or if the colours where more natural or the composition could be better. that is the purpose of the forum, but sadly people have lost site of it.
 

u8myufo

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Oh ffs!! Don't worry T, not you, I reported Ingrid [ :p ] where she had quoted you. The app has a glitch, it tells you when you have been quoted, even if its in a forum you don't have access to, the staff contact in this case. Marcel is chasing the app folks, it was meant to be sorted.

Oh and before Ingrids ears steam into oblivion, it was only because she said something that reminded my of something entirely different I wanted to say in staffroom, I was being REALLY lazy - hoisted by my own petard as it were :LOL:
If you have nothing of real value to add to this thread could you keep your comments in oof? Or I shall be forced to report you :D
 

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A pixel dies every time someone posts a platitude in place of critique...you heard it here first

i would love to see mre critique and honest appraisals, and more people taking it with grace and in the spirit its intended. TP started out like that and was at its best when thats what people wanted and expected. it annoys me when someone spits a dummy when told that the image would look better if it was straight or if the colours where more natural or the composition could be better. that is the purpose of the forum, but sadly people have lost site of it.
I wish I had been here when it was that as frankly it sounds wonderful, and wouldn't it be brilliant for it to be that again, this is exactly what I'd love to see...it saddens me a little when members seem to think that is a bad thing
 

big soft moose

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You have a very low opinion of you fellow forum members :(
not all of them - fact is i'd love to be able to post for crit like a 'normal' member but its been demonstrated at least twice that any attempt to do so will descend into complete and utter carnage , so its best for all concerned (including the sanity of the mod team) that i don't

It's all very well giving out advice on how to do something right in your opinion, but if you don't show
your skills, how can you expect people to take it seriously:thinking:
thats been discussed to a faretheewell already , several times, and the ruling from the great bodmod was that no one is required to prove their bona fides.

also the idea of proving skills in order to give crit is false anyway - certainly being a photographer might give more credence to someone giving technical advice (and people can either take my word or go forth and multiply) but in terms of artistc crit on whether a given picture is pleasing to he eye all you require is an eye (or two) , a brain , and a typing finger.

A non photographer who's never even touched a camera can say " I like this picture because a,b, c , but i don't like x, y, z " and be considerably more useful than the best photographer in the world writing "nice shot"
 

big soft moose

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As for your previous quote, yes a sentence should be enough especially if you are not fully au fait with giving it, just like i don't beleive there should be an issue with people not giving neg crit, if people want/can then fine etc etc blah blah
I agree a sentence should be enough if someone isnt skilled /confident in giving crit

" I like this picture of a womble because you've done really well to photograph one in the wild"

" This picture is great, i especially like the way the bee is seperated from the blurred background"


But "nice shot" isn't a sentence , all that smacks of is CBA , and if someone CBA to post something helpful then they might as well have not posted anything

Likewise i agree that its not compulsory to give neg crit - if you look through my crit you'll see that I only give negatives if they are warranted, but if i'm going to say that shots great I generally try and say why I also don't say "wha a great shot" if something is patently not - as not only is that disingenous, but it is also unhelpful to the photographr concerned... if someone can't bring themselves to give constructive crit of an image deeply in need of improvement surely it is better that they say nothing than that they lie to make someone feel good.
 

Gremlin

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Ok let's put it another way.
I have lost count of the amount of times in both the bird and other animal forums I have seen the crit say the subject is to central
or the focus should be on the eyes.
Those of us that do this sort of photography know that we are dealing with living things that don't always do what you want so
you have to be fairly quick.
I've seen it said that it's simple, you get the focus locked on the eyes then move the camera to reframe the shot, and guess what,
the subject moves :(
To me this isn't good critique, it shows a lack of understanding in the subject matter
 

BRASH

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Ok let's put it another way.
I have lost count of the amount of times in both the bird and other animal forums I have seen the crit say the subject is to central
or the focus should be on the eyes.
Those of us that do this sort of photography know that we are dealing with living things that don't always do what you want so
you have to be fairly quick.
I've seen it said that it's simple, you get the focus locked on the eyes then move the camera to reframe the shot, and guess what,
the subject moves :(
To me this isn't good critique, it shows a lack of understanding in the subject matter
Utter pish!!! There are more than one way to get a picture framed correctly. If it can't be done in camera then a decent crop in PP sorts that. If the focus is not correct and selective sharpening doesn't improve it then either bin the shot, post it , take the crit and strive to improve the next time. These things need to be explained at times so folk gain the knowledge.

I see it as lack of experience in framing a subject, inability to understand what makes a decently framed shot or downright laziness. There's really no excuse once you know the basics. It's not difficult.
 
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big soft moose

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Ok let's put it another way.
I have lost count of the amount of times in both the bird and other animal forums I have seen the crit say the subject is to central
or the focus should be on the eyes.
Those of us that do this sort of photography know that we are dealing with living things that don't always do what you want so
you have to be fairly quick.
I've seen it said that it's simple, you get the focus locked on the eyes then move the camera to reframe the shot, and guess what,
the subject moves :(
To me this isn't good critique, it shows a lack of understanding in the subject matter
It depends on what it is and how fast its moving - but generally i'd agree that that the second bit of that isn't always great advice (although it takes milli seconds to do so if the subject is stationary it ought to be viable before it moves - its a non starter with a flying bird or a running animal though). The crit is still sound, but the way i'd suggest composing something like that is using the appropriate focus point. ie don't use the central point unless you want the focal point to be central in the frame (although that does also assume a camera that can use tracking AF on a point other than the centre)

there are other ways to achieve an off centre composition though like cropping to improve the framing in PP.

With regard to getting the eyes sharp - this is good crit unless of course there was a direct intention to focus elsewhere to show feather or fur patterns etc - there are various ways to acheive it with a moving subject including locking on well before the intended shoot point, and using the burst function then picking the shots that work.

If you look at great wildlife photographers work you'll notice that the majority have the eyes sharp (unless theres a good reason not to as with mr rouses snow geese) and that most don't have the subject central in the frame (unless theres a good reason to do so) - so like it or not people do manage it ... if someone struggles to do so that could indicate a lack of proficiency on their part rather than a flaw in the advice given.

(holy crap it appears i agree with Brash :eek: )
 

Neil B

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Ok let's put it another way.
I have lost count of the amount of times in both the bird and other animal forums I have seen the crit say the subject is to central
or the focus should be on the eyes.
Those of us that do this sort of photography know that we are dealing with living things that don't always do what you want so
you have to be fairly quick.
I've seen it said that it's simple, you get the focus locked on the eyes then move the camera to reframe the shot, and guess what,
the subject moves :(
To me this isn't good critique, it shows a lack of understanding in the subject matter
I think that example says more about the way you take the advice, you are referring to the one of the basics, if you have "lost count" does that not mean anything :rolleyes:
 

BRASH

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It depends on what it is and how fast its moving - but generally i'd agree that that the second bit of that isn't always great advice (although it takes milli seconds to do so if the subject is stationary it ought to be viable before it moves - its a non starter with a flying bird or a running animal though). The crit is still sound, but the way i'd suggest composing something like that is using the appropriate focus point. ie don't use the central point unless you want the focal point to be central in the frame (although that does also assume a camera that can use tracking AF on a point other than the centre)

there are other ways to achieve an off centre composition though like cropping to improve the framing in PP.

With regard to getting the eyes sharp - this is good crit unless of course there was a direct intention to focus elsewhere to show feather or fur patterns etc - there are various ways to acheive it with a moving subject including locking on well before the intended shoot point, and using the burst function then picking the shots that work.

If you look at great wildlife photographers work you'll notice that the majority have the eyes sharp (unless theres a good reason not to as with mr rouses snow geese) and that most don't have the subject central in the frame (unless theres a good reason to do so) - so like it or not people do manage it ... if someone struggles to do so that could indicate a lack of proficiency on their part rather than a flaw in the advice given.

(holy crap it appears i agree with Brash :eek: )

Yes indeed, you know I'm usually right.:D
 

big soft moose

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MWHCVT

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big soft moose

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big soft moose

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Sexual reproduction at 6.08PM !
Would be 1/2 way through dinner for most people !!
well it would certainly sort out the problems in this section - everyone would be in a good mood for late night posting :LOL:
 

big soft moose

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dinners

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About a trillionth of a second actually, I saw something the other day that if from the forming of the earth to present day were recorded on a 24hr clock, humans would have existed for the last 4 seconds of the day :eek:
And the sooner we go on our merry way - the better :)
 
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".........

It's a bit like the Isle of Man TT and Formula 1 Racing. The two have virtually no correlation, but the uninitiated will call them both motor-sport.
Of course they are Motorsport, what bleedin else could they be?

Sorry, no idea how I got to the "Look at the birdie" section!
 
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Right, lets gets down to the nitty gritty of all this, most people know what is happening and most are rightly skirting around naming those involved.
Frankly, we don't give a toss whether you like each other or not, whether you think he is wrong or he shouldn't do that - this is a forum for everyone, of every level, treat it that way.
Quit the bitching, back sniping, digging and general arseholery because fingers are hovering over the permaban button.

@BRASH - we all know you only deal in 'blunt', that is absolutely fine, but we all know you also take it too far sometimes, to the point of sounding like a playground bully. and so do you.
Wind your neck in, behave like a man with a few manners and stop having nasty sly digs at Den and anyone that likes his stuff.

@u8myufo - stop hanging onto Brash's coat tails and feeding off him, it doesn't become you. Nor do your digs at Den. You're not a groupie.

@fracster - you have the ability and knowledge to be one of the best members round here after years of having your rougher edges smoothed off - you started this thread with good intentions, try and remember them, you have a lot to offer a lot of people here.

@Neil B - same to you as said to Rich really, just behave!

@den - Your pictures are lovely and we sure as hell don't want to stop you posting them, but have a little respect for other members - don't flood the bird forum with a new post for every different species every day. It isn't fair on everyone else in the forum that has less access to such great birds, nor to those trying to improve their bird photography. You can put different bird species in the same thread, you can keep a thread going over the course of a week or a month, give everyone a chance. Don't be quite so touchy that every comment might be aimed at you.

Anyone that has 'taken sides' in the above - get back on the fence, you are simply fanning the flames.

Everyone.

1 - Accept that not all critique will be positive - if you don't want critique, use photos for pleasure, or at the very least, SAY you are not looking for it in the opening post, not half a dozen posts down after you have taken offence because someone dared to offer some.
2 - If a photo sharing thread drifts into discussion about that species habitat, behaviour, or anything else regarding that/those birds, that is fine, it is how people learn more about the birds they are pointing a camera at. Threads that are specifically for discussion are welcome in Talk Nature.
3 - Don't get sarcy or snidey, even negative critique can be offered in a positive manner - if you find it impossible to do that, move on, just don't say anything.
4 - A baited bird is still wild and free, it may be choosing to take the food left for it, but it will still find it's own when it is not supplied by humans. If the bird is baited, is it so bloody hard to say that in the OP? In fact, is it so bloody difficult to give a brief description, some explanation in any opening post? No, it isn't, so do it, so everyone knows where they stand.
5 - No more b****x about not being good enough to offer critique - get out there, all of you, and start helping each other improve and especially those new to bird photography, whether you are a beginner or an expert. Stop tearing each other apart, it is like watching a bunch a 10 year olds sometimes. Don't be a softarse about receiving critique and don't be a wuss about offering it. Just be polite - seriously, this is not rocket science.
6 - Quit bitching that we don't moderate enough/moderate too much - if you all behaved liked the grown ups you are, moderating would not be needed.


and on that note, this thread ends.
 
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