Immigrants crossing the channel.

[woof woof]

I picked this up from another site.

Some will hate Nigel Farage on sight and ditto Guido Fawkes whoever he is but I think this needs looking into regardless of the motives or credibility of those involved. The vid appears to show an overcrowded dingy being escorted out of French waters into UK waters and a sort of hand over from a French coastguard vessel to a UK one. There's also an allegation that the UK authorities threatened to detain the filming vessel if they filmed the "handover."

If this "handover" is indeed a true description of what went on I can't see how it's justified on any level. I'm all for controlled immigration, my wife is a non EC immigrant, and if we want these immigrants to enter the UK then fair enough I'd welcome them myself and shake their hands and wish them well so it's not the handover as such that worries me more the fact that this seems to be an operation involving agreement between the French and UK authorities which is arguably aiding the illegal activities of the people smugglers and most certainly putting the lives of the immigrants at risk. If we want them to come to he UK fine, pick them up and bring them here in a safe way or stick them on the train or bus in France and meet them when they get off in he UK.

I just see no justification for doing it in this way.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=101&v=73ktWzxUVv0&feature=emb_logo


I'll be surprised if this is picked up and reported by the BBC or any other mainstream news, but I'll wait and see.

 

[Cartus]

I don’t know if you consider the Independent to be 'mainstream'...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...invasion-english-channel-latest-a9524086.html

 

[john.margetts]

What you have is a boat with an idiot on it somewhere in the world that is not identified. There is a dinghy with a lot of people on it somewhere unidentifiable . There was a close-up of an RNLI lifeboat. And a lot of unsubstantiated accusations.

This is known as propaganda.

 

[Graham W]

1:20 he says their skipper was told "if they film the "Handover" their vessel will be commandeered". Presumably they have a recording of this.

 

[woof woof]

What you have is a boat with an idiot on it somewhere in the world that is not identified. There is a dinghy with a lot of people on it somewhere unidentifiable . There was a close-up of an RNLI lifeboat. And a lot of unsubstantiated accusations.

This is known as propaganda.

Not even worth looking into then? OK, case closed.

I do think it's worth looking into as lives are potentially at stake here and I don't think a dislike of the idiot should over rule that.

 

[woof woof]

I don’t know if you consider the Independent to be 'mainstream'...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...invasion-english-channel-latest-a9524086.html

That does seem to have a completely different spin.

Having a pop at the idiot for braking the lockdown seems a bit off to me when as far as I know we can go out to help others. It may be a stretch but perhaps potentially saving a boat full of people from drowning justifies a relatively small fine here. And of course it's not as if the mainstream news doesn't potentially break the lockdown for needless vids of people talking at pole length or through windows.

 

[woof woof]

I thought some would rather shoot the messenger than see this as a potentially life threatening activity and possibly aiding the activity of illegal gangs and it looks like I was right.

What are human lives and the activity of people smugglers next to the chance of having a pop at Nigel Farage.

Good on you guys.

 

[Diving Pete]

as he is also a journalist & news reporter I'm led to believe that he's not subject to the same criteria. I think (happy to be proved wrong) that his restriction is the same as the emergency services & as such was perfectly in his rights to be doing what he did.

 

[woof woof]

That's an interesting point but I don't see the lockdown as any justification for going after the messenger here. If this happens as alleged it's a disgrace and it's a disgrace because it puts peoples lives at risk and potentially aids criminal gangs. I just can't see how this is justified and IMO it needs to be the subject of an investigation. If the govt sanctioned this, fine, bring them down. And of course if it's a propaganda lie then lets put someone in prison.

I do appreciate that Nigel Farage caused Brexit and some can't get over that regardless of how many people drown in the channel or get exploited by criminal gangs. I'm not surprised at the posts above, to be honest it's what I expected as compared to hating Farage and Brexit nothing else matters to some people.

 

[Ricardodaforce]

 

[woof woof]

Do you think Farage is right to raise this issue?

I wonder if the Farage haters care that peoples lives are at risk? Probably not. Why give a flying that people could drown in the sea? I suppose the attitude is that although the immigrants are real people and someones loved ones no one really wants them so just ignore the issue and get on with shooting the evil Brexit pushing messenger.

I do see how some would hate Farage and everything he stands for and I expected this as I posted but I really don't care who the messenger is, I only care if this is true or not (I suspect it is but I can't think why it would be policy) and who sanctioned it.

The Farage haters exceeded my expectations for heartless indifference and preferring to let personal animosity obscure a serious issue. Well done the haters.

 

[woof woof]

I tend to get a bit overheated on the immigration issue. It is IMO a crying shame that people go through this and no one in the world apparently wants them. What a situation to be in to undertake a journey like this and appreciate that you'll possibly be exploited and abused by criminal gangs and disliked by the locals every where you go.

 

[sirch]

As the Home Secretary, Pritti Awful Patel herself said

We’re ending free movement to open Britain up to the world.

 

[tijuana taxi]

Do you think Farage is highlighting it out of concern for the refugees?
Pretty sure he doesn't give a flying **** for anyone apart from himself

 

[woof woof]

As the Home Secretary, Pritti Awful Patel herself said

Then do it properly in a way which doesn't appear to be helping criminal gangs and putting lives in danger.

I do agree with being less eurocentric and looking to the wider world but there are ways of doing it that avoid the criminal gangs and dangerous sea crossings. Compared to the gangs and dinghies even Ryanair looks like a good option.

 

[woof woof]

Do you think Farage is highlighting it out of concern for the refugees?
Pretty sure he doesn't give a flying **** for anyone apart from himself

I don't care what his motives are and neither should you. All you should care about is is this happening or not.

I suspect you hate the man and his lifes work, fine I get that but why let that obscure an issue involving criminal gangs, beatings, rape, murder and extortion even before we get to the possibility of drowning at sea?

People never cease to amaze and disappoint me. But I knew this as I posted knowing the views some posters on this site hold.

 

[the black fox]

I this day and age do we really want all these alleged refugees coming here un.vetted ,I.s.i.s ,al-quaeda, covid carriers ,thiefs ,vagabonds scammers ,etc etc .
Totally wrong at this moment in time ..

Nigel farage the best prime minister we never had

 

[jakeblu]

Nigel farage the best prime minister we never had

You're a great wildlife photographer but crap at satire, I mean that was satire, right?

 

[woof woof]

I this day and age do we really want all these alleged refugees coming here un.vetted ,I.s.i.s ,al-quaeda, covid carriers ,thiefs ,vagabonds scammers ,etc etc .
Totally wrong at this moment in time ..

Nigel farage the best prime minister we never had

I agree about the vetting and there should probably be monitoring of some too but even the Farage haters should be able to see how bad a thing people trafficking is and how ill thought out this handing over seems to be, if it indeed happens and is some sort of policy. Seems not though. I'd guess the haters would probably see themselves as liberal human rights supporting people, based on some views expressed on this site I'd disagree.

 

[jakeblu]

I agree about the vetting and there should probably be monitoring of some too but even the Farage haters should be able to see how bad a thing people trafficking is and how ill thought out this handing over seems to be, if it indeed happens and is some sort of policy. Seems not though. I'd guess the haters would probably see themselves as liberal human rights supporting people, based on some views expressed on this site I'd disagree.

Why is there always this dichotomy in your posts Alan, it's not one or the other, I can hate Farage and everything he stands for and completely understand the evils of people trafficking.

 

[woof woof]

Why is there always this dichotomy in your posts Alan, it's not one or the other, I can hate Farage and everything he stands for and completely understand the evils of people trafficking.

I think some let their hatred of Farage blind them to the issue. That may not be you but it seems to me to be the case from some of the posts here. Reading this thread don't you agree?

Such a serious issue and people would rather have a pop at Farage for breaking the lockdown? Really? Honestly? Truly?

I don't care if he's hated or why. I just see this as a piece of potential evidence which could be a part of an investigation. If Hitler had filmed this it would still be valid imo.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I picked this up from another site.

Some will hate Nigel Farage on sight and ditto Guido Fawkes whoever he is but I think this needs looking into regardless of the motives or credibility of those involved. The vid appears to show an overcrowded dingy being escorted out of French waters into UK waters and a sort of hand over from a French coastguard vessel to a UK one. There's also an allegation that the UK authorities threatened to detain the filming vessel if they filmed the "handover."

If this "handover" is indeed a true description of what went on I can't see how it's justified on any level. I'm all for controlled immigration, my wife is a non EC immigrant, and if we want these immigrants to enter the UK then fair enough I'd welcome them myself and shake their hands and wish them well so it's not the handover as such that worries me more the fact that this seems to be an operation involving agreement between the French and UK authorities which is arguably aiding the illegal activities of the people smugglers and most certainly putting the lives of the immigrants at risk. If we want them to come to he UK fine, pick them up and bring them here in a safe way or stick them on the train or bus in France and meet them when they get off in he UK.

I just see no justification for doing it in this way.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=101&v=73ktWzxUVv0&feature=emb_logo


I'll be surprised if this is picked up and reported by the BBC or any other mainstream news, but I'll wait and see.

I see no evidence of any actual 'hand over' in that Farage video.

I think that this report from Sky News earlier today, probably gives a more balanced view of things:

As the report makes clear towards the end, the migrants boats won't stop in french territorial waters, and the french patrols have no way of safely stopping them. So the french patrol boats boats 'shadow' the migrants, ready to assist if they get into difficulty. Once in British waters, the migrants are happy to cut their engines to be taken aboard British border force boats.

If Farage has any real evidence of a 'hand over' he should make it available, otherwise it looks as if he's just putting his spin on events.

 

[woof woof]

That's a slightly more acceptable version of events but I'm not convinced it's a case of oh well that's ok then as if the immigrants are followed almost from the beach or if indeed the French aren't enthusiastic about stopping them it's something that isn't acceptable and needs to be done differently.

I think it warrants an investigation/review as do the allegation of threats to seize the boat Farage is on, if that happened. I don't know if radio transmissions from border force ships are recorded or not or if there's any record from the Farage boat. If there are records of some sort that would be something to look at but that's a secondary issue to the treatment of the migrant issue.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I this day and age do we really want all these alleged refugees coming here un.vetted ,I.s.i.s ,al-quaeda, covid carriers ,thiefs ,vagabonds scammers ,etc etc .
Totally wrong at this moment in time ..

Nigel farage the best prime minister we never had

Whilst it's amusing that this post is so wrong, on so many levels, it also greatly saddens me.

Why can't we first see other people as people - human beings like you and me. If we could start to see other people as people first and not as terrorists, virus carriers, criminals etc the world would be a much better place.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be cautious and make as many checks as is possible about those arriving on our shores, but we must never forget that these are desperate and frightened people. I cannot comprehend what horrors many of them experienced to make them willing to risk their lives on this nightmare journey.

Sadly, leaders from Hitler to those in power now, have always used 'the fear of the other' to further their cause. Sadder still, it seems as if many of the public today are as susceptible to hate mongering as were their forefather's.

 

[tijuana taxi]

Do you also applaud the self style EDL border guards patrolling the south coast beaches
They are after all only there to highlight the human trafficking trade.

Also if they are genuine refugees fleeing violence why can't they seek asylum in France or the first safe haven country they reach?

 

[woof woof]

Whilst it's amusing that this post is so wrong, on so many levels, it also greatly saddens me.

Why can't we first see other people as people - human beings like you and me. If we could start to see other people as people first and not as terrorists, virus carriers, criminals etc the world would be a much better place.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be cautious and make as many checks as is possible about those arriving on our shores, but we must never forget that these are desperate and frightened people. I cannot comprehend what horrors many of them experienced to make them willing to risk their lives on this nightmare journey.

Sadly, leaders from Hitler to those in power now, have always used 'the fear of the other' to further their cause. Sadder still, it seems as if many of the public today are as susceptible to hate mongering as were their forefather's.

That incident with the lorry trailer a while back will stay with me forever. We all know this goes on and has done for a long time but that story hit me hard as we got the final messages from those about to die and later saw the families.

I know the UK can't take them all and I haven't got an answer for the global issue that this is but we shouldn't be colluding in any way with anyone or anything that makes the people traffickers life easier or with French authorities who'd rather just pass the issue on. If that's what this is even in part.

 

[tijuana taxi]

I don't care what his motives are and neither should you. All you should care about is is this happening or not.

I suspect you hate the man and his lifes work, fine I get that but why let that obscure an issue involving criminal gangs, beatings, rape, murder and extortion even before we get to the possibility of drowning at sea?

People never cease to amaze and disappoint me. But I knew this as I posted knowing the views some posters on this site hold.

You know f*** all about me and my views, so please desist forthwith saying otherwise

 

[nilagin]

I see no evidence of any actual 'hand over' in that Farage video.

I think that this report from Sky News earlier today, probably gives a more balanced view of things:

As the report makes clear towards the end, the migrants boats won't stop in french territorial waters, and the french patrols have no way of safely stopping them. So the french patrol boats boats 'shadow' the migrants, ready to assist if they get into difficulty. Once in British waters, the migrants are happy to cut their engines to be taken aboard British border force boats.

If Farage has any real evidence of a 'hand over' he should make it available, otherwise it looks as if he's just putting his spin on events.

If the French patrol boats are only there for the safety of the "refugees " surely they would pick them up and take them back to France whilst they are still in French waters.
If they were true refugees they would try to settle in the first safe country they get to.

 

[woof woof]

Do you also applaud the self style EDL border guards patrolling the south coast beaches
They are after all only there to highlight the human trafficking trade.

Also if they are genuine refugees fleeing violence why can't they seek asylum in France or the first safe haven country they reach?

If that's aimed at me...

I don't know who EDL border guards are but if the immigrants are on the beaches isn't that more of an immigration issue than a health and safety issue? I'm not against immigration and what upset me about this "hand over" issue is the potential for this being an official or semi official policy or at least a collusion which is endangering lives.

 

[Uncle Fester]

That's a slightly more acceptable version of events but I'm not convinced it's a case of oh well that's ok then as if the immigrants are followed almost from the beach or if indeed the French aren't enthusiastic about stopping them it's something that isn't acceptable and needs to be done differently.

What needs to be done differently?

I think it warrants an investigation/review as do the allegation of threats to seize the boat Farage is on, if that happened. I don't know if radio transmissions from border force ships are recorded or not or if there's any record from the Farage boat. If there are records of some sort that would be something to look at but that's a secondary issue to the treatment of the migrant issue.

If Farage has evidence of threats to seize the boat he was on, I'm certain he will produce it.

I agree, that the treatment of the migrants should be a priority, but in neither of these videos, do I see evidence that they have been mistreated. Obviously, they're being exploited by people traffikers, but as far as I can see, that is their only option to get to their chosen destination.

 

[woof woof]

You know f*** all about me and my views, so please desist forthwith saying otherwise

Then tell me. What are your views on this issue?

And a PS.
Hating a politician (or anyone else) and his lifes work is fine with me but not if that hatred clouds your views on other matters.

 

[woof woof]

What needs to be done differently?



If Farage has evidence of threats to seize the boat he was on, I'm certain he will produce it.

I agree, that the treatment of the migrants should be a priority, but in neither of these videos, do I see evidence that they have been mistreated. Obviously, they're being exploited by people traffikers, but as far as I can see, that is their only option to get to their chosen destination.

What needs to be done differently... the French authorities could potentially try harder to prevent migrants from setting out to cross the channel.

I accept that neither vid proves anything but the issue surely warrants looking into and if there's any truth to this "things" could surely be done better and by better I mean with less risk to life and hopefully with less chance of the people trafficking industry profiting.

 

[john.margetts]

Do you think Farage is right to raise this issue?

I wonder if the Farage haters care that peoples lives are at risk? Probably not. Why give a flying that people could drown in the sea? I suppose the attitude is that although the immigrants are real people and someones loved ones no one really wants them so just ignore the issue and get on with shooting the evil Brexit pushing messenger.

I do see how some would hate Farage and everything he stands for and I expected this as I posted but I really don't care who the messenger is, I only care if this is true or not (I suspect it is but I can't think why it would be policy) and who sanctioned it.

The Farage haters exceeded my expectations for heartless indifference and preferring to let personal animosity obscure a serious issue. Well done the haters.

The RNLI were in attendance which should have been worth mentioning by Farage but that would have ruined his propaganda. If French coastguard and British coastguard were also in attendance, the risks were minimal - but Farage managed to make a report on the situation saying how bad everybody was while ignoring how good everyone was.

 

[nilagin]

The RNLI were in attendance which should have been worth mentioning by Farage but that would have ruined his propaganda. If French coastguard and British coastguard were also in attendance, the risks were minimal - but Farage managed to make a report on the situation saying how bad everybody was while ignoring how good everyone was.

If everyone was good. How did they get out of French waters and into UK waters. They should have been taken back to France.

 

[AZ6]

Do you think Farage is right to raise this issue?

What issue?

I do see how some would hate Farage and everything he stands for

He's a far right wing fascist scumbag who is happy to use Nazi style propaganda to stir up hatred and xenophobia, in order to facilitate a divide and rule style dictatorship. No sane, decent Human Being would have anything but contempt for the despicable vile ****.

Good thread though. It enables us to see who the right wing ****s on this forum are.

I this day and age do we really want all these alleged refugees coming here un.vetted ,I.s.i.s ,al-quaeda, covid carriers ,thiefs ,vagabonds scammers ,etc etc .
Totally wrong at this moment in time ..

Nigel farage the best prime minister we never had

Wow.

So much ignorance, in so few words...

 

[AZ6]

Also if they are genuine refugees fleeing violence why can't they seek asylum in France or the first safe haven country they reach?

Many of them will be English speakers, having escaped from former British invaded lands. Many French speaking refugees do in fact try to get to France. For a refugee, getting to a place where you can communicate effectively, will be a priority. Far, far more difficult to get by in a country where you don't speak any of the native language. How many on here, if it came to it and you had to escape, would want to go to say China? You'd be heading for the US, Canada, Australia or at least to a place where you'd be able to communicate. That's how it works.

 

[tijuana taxi]

Many of them will be English speakers, having escaped from former British invaded lands. Many French speaking refugees do in fact try to get to France. For a refugee, getting to a place where you can communicate effectively, will be a priority. Far, far more difficult to get by in a country where you don't speak any of the native language. How many on here, if it came to it and you had to escape, would want to go to say China? You'd be heading for the US, Canada, Australia or at least to a place where you'd be able to communicate. That's how it works.

Think there must be more to it than that, English is quite widely spoken in for instance the Netherlands and Scandinavia.
Why pass through a large chunk of Europe most of which has a good standard of living.
Then end up in a squalid shanty town with a slim chance of crossing the channel to the UK

 

[AZ6]

Think there must be more to it than that, English is quite widely spoken in for instance the Netherlands and Scandinavia.
Why pass through a large chunk of Europe most of which has a good standard of living.
Then end up in a squalid shanty town with a slim chance of crossing the channel to the UK

The Nederlands and Scandinavia don't have so many settled communities of people from the countries/regions that many refugees are fleeing though. Many refugees trying to get to the UK already have family here. Or at least people they can relate to and have something in common with. That helps them to feel more secure. There are support networks, potential work and accomodation. It's a more attractive prospect.

 

[Uncle Fester]

What needs to be done differently... the French authorities could potentially try harder to prevent migrants from setting out to cross the channel.

But it has been shown time and again, that those who fail to cross the channel, will try again and again. Eventually they will succeed.

What is the percentage of those who get here versus those who do not? We simply do not know how good or bad a job the French are doing, so there shouldn't be any rush to judgement.

There is another matter, if you put aside the humanitarian aspect of things for a moment. I distinctly remember during the Brexit campaign that if we left the E.U. we would become a 'independent sovereign nation' and that we would 'take back control of our borders, money and laws'. Those who advocated Brexit now run the country, so why should we sub contract control of our borders to another nation? It is the responsibility of those who govern us to control our borders and no one else.

In purely practical terms, why should the French spend money, time and resources to stop people from coming here? If the French can shadow the migrant boats, to ensure they don't come to harm, having the migrants arrive in the UK is a desireable outcome for the French.

There is only one real solution to the issue of mass migration and that is to make the home nations of refugees a desireable place to live and remove the incentive to leave. But the so called developed nations refuse to act against murderous dictators who butcher their populations, or corrupt leaders who plunge their citizens into abject poverty. We shouldn't be in the least surprised that a few of those people who flee, find themselves in our country by whatever means they can to get here.

 

[nilagin]

The Nederlands and Scandinavia don't have so many settled communities of people from the countries/regions that many refugees are fleeing though. Many refugees trying to get to the UK already have family here. Or at least people they can relate to and have something in common with. That helps them to feel more secure. There are support networks, potential work and accomodation. It's a more attractive prospect.

Summed up in less words. We are a soft touch.