Jeremy Kyle - Show has gone - hooray!

For once I tend to agree with you Phil. But if only a tiny percentage ever get real help from the experience (or ordeal), then that is surely a good thing.
How few people getting ‘help’ justifies 1 suicide?

Alternatively, we could just use the same resources used to find these people and then just offer the help without the ‘entertainment’.

Radical!
 
How few people getting ‘help’ justifies 1 suicide?

Alternatively, we could just use the same resources used to find these people and then just offer the help without the ‘entertainment’.

Radical!

I suppose it depends who we... blame. It seems to have been decided that we'll blame low class confrontational reality tv and ban it and not look at how or why this guy was hounded on social media and in life by people who didn't think about the possible consequences and probably wouldn't care anyway.

One of the most distasteful things about the way our society seems to be heading is how reactionary we're becoming. We seem to be willing to destroy peoples careers, reputations and indeed lives completely with an avalanche of hate and death threats if they say or do the wrong thing even if it's a slip of the tongue or a joke in bad taste. Driving a few to suicide is perhaps the inevitable result.
 
We seem to be willing to destroy peoples careers, reputations and indeed lives completely with an avalanche of hate and death threats
I totally agree, far too many people are ready with the pitchforks these days, you even see that happening right here, on TP to a greater or lesser extent.

I'm sorry that someone may have taken their own life as a direct result of the programme.
But I'm certainly not sorry there is one less reality TV programme cluttering up the channels.

I guess *we* get the program's *we* deserve. If the viewing figures weren't there, they wouldn't be screened, but it has seemed to me for a long time
that its a race to the bottom for viewing figures, and thats speaking as someone who remembers when there were only 2 channels !
 
...

One of the most distasteful things about the way our society seems to be heading is how reactionary we're becoming. We seem to be willing to destroy peoples careers, reputations and indeed lives completely with an avalanche of hate and death threats if they say or do the wrong thing even if it's a slip of the tongue or a joke in bad taste. Driving a few to suicide is perhaps the inevitable result.
I'm not 'reacting', this s*** shower should never have been on the screen - for most of the people who support the banning of it, that's true. The small shift by people 'reacting' to this suicide could be seen as reactionary - or just people coming to their senses.

I'm a great believer in critical thinking rather than 'reactionary' but it seems I'm in a minority - whilst it's sad - reactionary is not new and is as common amongst the old and rabidly right wing as it is amongst the young socially aware social media driven. Politicians on both sides (though more commonly on the right) have been appealing to 'feelings' rather than facts for a long time, to the extent we now have politicians openly lying and it being considered 'acceptable'. That's 'distasteful'.
 
to the extent we now have politicians openly lying and it being considered 'acceptable'. That's 'distasteful'.
I totally agree but also add 'distasteful' at best!
I guess *we* get the program's *we* deserve.
Maybe this applies here also, by swapping programs for politicians.
 
I totally agree, far too many people are ready with the pitchforks these days, you even see that happening right here, on TP to a greater or lesser extent.

I'm sorry that someone may have taken their own life as a direct result of the programme.
But I'm certainly not sorry there is one less reality TV programme cluttering up the channels.

I guess *we* get the program's *we* deserve. If the viewing figures weren't there, they wouldn't be screened, but it has seemed to me for a long time
that its a race to the bottom for viewing figures, and thats speaking as someone who remembers when there were only 2 channels !

Do we know that he took his life as a direct result of the programme? I thought it had been reported that he'd been hounded on social media and in life with insults and death threats? OK... if he was hounded he was hounded because he and his behaviour had been brought to the attention of the pitch fork wielding hate mongers but I think it's too simplistic to blame only the Jeremy Kyle show. You don't need reality tv to be driven to suicide, all you need to get an avalanche of hate, insults and death threats is to post a vid on YouTube.
 
The problem with someone having suicidal tendencies is that generally no one knows until the person attempts it and by then it is often too late.
Those who talk about suicide tend not to attempt it and it is a cry for help.
I do voluntary work as a peer supported for the UK’s oldest mental health charity called Together.
It can take a lot of effort before a person with mental health issues will open up and talk about it.
Even before getting involved with the charity I can think of three people I knew who, as far as I am aware did not talk about their mental health or suicidal thoughts.

Men tend take longer to open up than women and this tends to boil down to male pride.
Over the years, we have read sensationalised headlines where someone suffering from schizophrenia has murdered someone.
Now, if you suffered a psychotic disorder, after reading such headlines how would you feel about opening up?
Those of us at a certain age can probably remember their parents saying, “pull yourself together, go and seen the doctor for a tonic”.
It has taken a very long time for society to accept that mental health is a genuine illness and I still encounter people who wear blinkers when it comes to mental health.
I have not read anything about this chap opening up about his mental health but his age is a good indication that his parents were the type to suggest doing the above.
In rare cases such as Robin Williams, they open up about their mental health but they will not talk about having suicidal thoughts.
Sadly, there is still a stigma attached to mental health and this prevents many people from opening up simply because they embarrassed about it.
 
I'm not 'reacting', this s*** shower should never have been on the screen - for most of the people who support the banning of it, that's true. The small shift by people 'reacting' to this suicide could be seen as reactionary - or just people coming to their senses.

I'm a great believer in critical thinking rather than 'reactionary' but it seems I'm in a minority - whilst it's sad - reactionary is not new and is as common amongst the old and rabidly right wing as it is amongst the young socially aware social media driven. Politicians on both sides (though more commonly on the right) have been appealing to 'feelings' rather than facts for a long time, to the extent we now have politicians openly lying and it being considered 'acceptable'. That's 'distasteful'.

I do worry for the future. I don't have children but I've seen what those in my wider family suffer at the hands of the young on social media and it's beyond anything I ever suffered or saw others suffer. The hounding, name calling and bullying seems to have reached levels that make a violent encounter after school seem like very small beer. Being a bit quiet and a bit of a geek I suffered a bit of bullying at school but not much as I had a temper and whenever it happened I just snapped and punched the bully in the face no matter where we were and that saved me from prolonged bullying. In later life when punching someone in the face no longer seemed appropriate I learned how to use my intelligence mixed with some choice put downs and fruity language and the result was the same and any bullying quickly stopped but I always had the option of walking away and that's missing these days when not just the young but older people too seem to live on social media and can therefore be constantly exposed to bullying no matter where they are, there's no safe place for them. I never ever saw anything like the wave of bullying that people can be exposed to today and it's no surprise at all that some just can't cope and see no other way out than to end their lives.

And I don't know why you're bringing left and right into this. As a socialist but perhaps a very different one to you I'm appalled at what's happening on "the left" to the point that I can't vote Labour but sadly the hard left has for a long time seen it acceptable to engage in bullying and intimidation. I don't care as much about the right as that's not my home but I'll condemn their racism and bullying when I see it but at the moment I see more of it from those who'd probably not recognise themselves as the hate filled harpies they appear to me to be.
 
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Surely suicides aren't discouraged (are they still illegal?) just to save subsequent messy (literally) mopping up costs.
Suicide was illegal until the Suicide Act 1961, meaning that failed attempts could result in prosecution: assisting a suicide is still illegal. Until then suicide was regarded as self murder which probably accounts for the contining use of the term "committing suicide".
 
Why would anybody go on that show? JC would appear to invite only the vulnerable on it and then bully them for the obvious enjoyment of the audience. Who else would volunteer to parade their lowlife tendencies to the world except those with limited abilities and before anybody asks I did watch it to see what is was all about and thought it (and him) were bloody awful.
 
Perhaps another subject, but why is suicide considered to be a crime? The word 'commit' suggests criminal or illegal action. If someone wants to exit, why not let them? - It might help reduce the over population problems :D

Well that's very caring of you.
 
Well that's very caring of you.
I think RedRobin (even if in jest) makes a good point. If we really do believe in individual freedom how can we justify attempting to take away the ultimate freedom of deciding where, when and how we wish to die?
 
I personally think we are going soft! Adults have a duty of care to themselves and it isn't the responsibility of society to wrap everyone in cotton wool and protect them from the nasty world that exists.
Let people have choice - if you don't like a program/social media etc then don't watch it. You don't have to appear on a program if you don't want to.
Let's stop pretending that people who have made poor decisions are all vulnerable.
 
Perhaps another subject, but why is suicide considered to be a crime? The word 'commit' suggests criminal or illegal action. If someone wants to exit, why not let them? - It might help reduce the over population problems :D

I really hope that you are joking; even so, mental health is something not to be joked about.
It took years for naive people to understand that jokes about various illnesses are not nice; I really hope you are not one of them who is still deluded.
I am not a violent person but many years ago, my ex-wife suffers from epilepsy, a work colleague tried to tell a joke about the subject and I explained how it affects people and to show some respect.
Even so, he still tried to tell the joke, I threatened to punch his lights out and luckily, and at that point he shut up.
I was prepared to lose my job over this matter, as I am very empathic towards people with severe illnesses.
Talk to someone who suffers from one of the more common types of mental health, depression.
Listen to how they cope with the basic things in life when they are overwhelmed with their illness.

Some years ago at a meet from here, Marc who is one of the mods attended and he suffers from MS.
I could not believe how many ignorant people carried on marching along and were blind to see that he struggled to keep up.
I walked with him and I went home with him to make sure he was okay on the tube.
Sometime afterwards at another meet I knew his condition has worsened as he was now using a walking stick.
I was shocked and saddened to see yet again how ignorant and blind some people can be.
For this to happen once was enough and it really p***** me off to see it happen again.
No wonder that generally I do not like the human race.
As for over population, if we got rid of the stupid and igorant people on the planet, we'd probably reduce the worlds population by 50%.
 
I personally think we are going soft! Adults have a duty of care to themselves and it isn't the responsibility of society to wrap everyone in cotton wool and protect them from the nasty world that exists.

Wow you really are ignorant.
People with mental health issues tend to be very vunerable.
They don't want people to wrap them up in cotton wall, all they wan't is some understanding.
 
I personally think we are going soft! Adults have a duty of care to themselves and it isn't the responsibility of society to wrap everyone in cotton wool and protect them from the nasty world that exists.
Let people have choice - if you don't like a program/social media etc then don't watch it. You don't have to appear on a program if you don't want to.
Let's stop pretending that people who have made poor decisions are all vulnerable.

But... surely there has to be someone to blame? And if not we need to make a new condition / syndrome etc. to explain why someone has done something, and then we can blame someone else who has contributed to making this happen or exacerbating the situation. Surely we all realise that there is no personal responsibility for anything, it is always someone else fault to some extent. Honestly, some people! :rolleyes:

Joking aside, I fully realise there are many elements at play here, and mental health is now a large part of problems in society nowadays. BUT the individuals suffering also have a part to play in dealing with the issues. I have worked with quite a number of people suffering from varying levels of mental health problems, and other than one individual who ultimately took his own life a few years later, the others were managed reasonably well. One of the biggest issues these days is that social media / TV exposure / FOMO etc etc plays such a big part in peoples lives, and a very large section of society either wants to be out there in the limelight, or watching those who are, then when it all goes wrong we need to blame someone. Crap (in my opinion) TV like Love Island, TOWIE and any other such rubbish just makes things worse, some people seem to think this is real life and that they need to aspire to live like this, and when they can't it all becomes too much.

Clearly other types of mental health, eg PTSD, are much more often caused by different means, but often (though definitely not always)the sufferer has made a choice which exposes them to it, eg job choice. I also think that the way the world is now working on a day to day basis is not using much more brain power and causes stresses in the mind as opposed to previous years stressing the body. I feel much of this is due to changes in the ways of working, and many workers managing more difficult problems, and also having to consider many more expectations than in years gone by.

Though all of this is just based on my personal experiences.
 
Wow you really are ignorant.
People with mental health issues tend to be very vunerable.
They don't want people to wrap them up in cotton wall, all they wan't is some understanding.
I didn't say what you are implying. Mental health is a massive issue.
People who go sleeping with partners mates etc then get caught and regret the fact don't all suffer mental health issues. Society shouldn't have a duty of care to Adults who make blatantly crap decisions.
 
I didn't say what you are implying. Mental health is a massive issue.
People who go sleeping with partners mates etc then get caught and regret the fact don't all suffer mental health issues. Society shouldn't have a duty of care to Adults who make blatantly crap decisions.

Sorry it's just how you post came across but with regard to people sleeping around I fully agree with you.
 
Much has been said of personal choice as to his or any person deciding to go on such a show ~yes that is true.

But a choice must be based on the person being fully informed & more importantly understanding what choosing to appear means??? Someone who has an undiagnosed/undeclared/unknown mental health issue is not a suitable candidate.....so what does such a program do, afteral it is discriminatory to exclude based on untrained opinion. By untrained I mean anyone unqualified to asess each applicant as not vulnerable or at risk of exploitation. The program makers have a duty of care but I don't recall hearing of a policy document detailing how they assess the candidates!

And as for choice ~ how many times have there been cases of con men taking money from folk. Free choice but manipulated by a con!!!

Re: lie detector tests ~ as has been pointed out these are not used in the UK justice system and are apparently where used in the USA used under very highly controlled circumstances. Used on an entertainment TV show under the guise is "science" is questionable and they may as well use Phrenology for all the value it will contribute.

Lastly, how many who have added their voices here genuinely believe that airing such emotionally sensitive personal matters on TV is a substitute for proper 121 medical or counseling help???

PS the analogy that comes to mind when I read, that as the show has helped a few justifies the (potential?) damage the many,........is we should jail many innocents to ensure we catch the few guilty ones. Hang on a mo, that is the opposite to what is said practiced!
 
I do worry for the future. I don't have children but I've seen what those in my wider family suffer at the hands of the young on social media and it's beyond anything I ever suffered or saw others suffer.

I do have children, now adults so they lived through the explosion of social media. And I have no more 'fear' for their welfare than my parents had for mine. I find most of the sensationalism is the fear of the unknown, people who don't understand the technology spread FUD.
 
.........
People who go sleeping with partners mates etc then get caught and regret the fact don't all suffer mental health issues. Society shouldn't have a duty of care to Adults who make blatantly crap decisions.

Are you relying on his failing the lie detector or something else that proved(?) he slept around???
Sorry it's just how you post came across but with regard to people sleeping around I fully agree with you.

Fidelity is indeed IMO paramount in a relationship!
 
I think RedRobin (even if in jest) makes a good point. If we really do believe in individual freedom how can we justify attempting to take away the ultimate freedom of deciding where, when and how we wish to die?
I don’t have a problem with that at all but wether in jest or not the remark “ - It might help reduce the over population problems “. Isn’t overly caring. Some people seem to think that we shouldn’t have to wrap everybody up in cosy blankets to protect them well I think a more important issue is do we have to make entertainment out of parading these quite pathetic issues in front of audiences practically baying for blood. It’s just so low rent it’s hardly believable.
 
I don’t have a problem with that at all but wether in jest or not the remark “ - It might help reduce the over population problems “. Isn’t overly caring. Some people seem to think that we shouldn’t have to wrap everybody up in cosy blankets to protect them well I think a more important issue is do we have to make entertainment out of parading these quite pathetic issues in front of audiences practically baying for blood. It’s just so low rent it’s hardly believable.

.... I did make my remark with tongue in cheek but I also think that it's a bad practice to wrap everybody up in cosy blankets to protect them. People need to learn how to protect themselves in my opinion. It's like trying to solve some people's mental issues with meds - They just block the issues temporarily and don't solve them. Every single person I know personally who has had prescribed meds due to mental issues (mostly depression) has said they are and feel far better since they stopped taking the meds even when against their doctor's advice.

Whether we like it or not, most people find a degree of 'entertainment' in viewing other people's issues and as already posted, none of these people on the JK Show were forced to go on it, just as none of us are forced to watch it. If you hear a couple of people kicking off in the street, don't most of us stop and watch what's going on? - I know I do! I don't mind if it's called being a voyeur and it's often entertaining.

If you analyse comedy or humour, you will find that the comedy is invariably at someone's expense or misfortune. Standup comedy entertainment is a perfect example and includes the ability to laugh at oneself and our own misfortune. Quite a few well known comedians have made a good living based on their own depression.
 
There are suggestions that these people are coerced or tricked onto the programme. Surely the "victims" are there voluntarily and want their grievance aired. (Pun Intended). It is the bad guys that are invited, but again it is their decision whether to partake. Even if they are tricked into attending, surely the "victims " are to blame. The JK Show has merely provided the platform and surely the "victims" are more likely to be aware if the "bad guy" has any mental health issues.
 
There are suggestions that these people are coerced or tricked onto the programme. Surely the "victims" are there voluntarily and want their grievance aired. (Pun Intended). It is the bad guys that are invited, but again it is their decision whether to partake. Even if they are tricked into attending, surely the "victims " are to blame. The JK Show has merely provided the platform and surely the "victims" are more likely to be aware if the "bad guy" has any mental health issues.
Are you a psychopathic maniac?
The resident psycho-logist will be along shortly to confirm your diagnosis.....
 
Much has been said of personal choice as to his or any person deciding to go on such a show ~yes that is true.

But a choice must be based on the person being fully informed & more importantly understanding what choosing to appear means??? Someone who has an undiagnosed/undeclared/unknown mental health issue is not a suitable candidate.....so what does such a program do, afteral it is discriminatory to exclude based on untrained opinion. By untrained I mean anyone unqualified to asess each applicant as not vulnerable or at risk of exploitation. The program makers have a duty of care but I don't recall hearing of a policy document detailing how they assess the candidates!

And as for choice ~ how many times have there been cases of con men taking money from folk. Free choice but manipulated by a con!!!

Re: lie detector tests ~ as has been pointed out these are not used in the UK justice system and are apparently where used in the USA used under very highly controlled circumstances. Used on an entertainment TV show under the guise is "science" is questionable and they may as well use Phrenology for all the value it will contribute.

Lastly, how many who have added their voices here genuinely believe that airing such emotionally sensitive personal matters on TV is a substitute for proper 121 medical or counseling help???

PS the analogy that comes to mind when I read, that as the show has helped a few justifies the (potential?) damage the many,........is we should jail many innocents to ensure we catch the few guilty ones. Hang on a mo, that is the opposite to what is said practiced!


Initially I was of the opinion that people who appeared on Jeremy Kyle(and similar shows) got what they deserved. Clearly no one drags them to the studio and forces them to appear, but is seems that, what to some, might appear as strong and irrestisible inducements - night in a hotel, the chance to get back at somone, 15 minutes of 'fame', are used to persuade people to appear.

I don't know how much the 'accused' in each scenario knows about what is going to happen but I assume very little, but they must have some inkling, at least, so why appear? Are the inducements really that good? I don't know.

It certainly appears the show sometimes targets those who appear to be robust characters but have vulnerabilities we don't see.

I'm not now sure where my views lie - there is a level of exploitation to make a programme but people can say, "No".

Dave

BTW - "But a choice must be based on the person being fully informed & more importantly understanding what choosing to appear means???" With only very slight modification this is a good summing up of what happened on 23rd June 2016
 
Yes it is very sad that this man took his own life, but what I also find sad is How can ripping people apart on TV be entertainment is beyond words.

.... Welcome to the human race and its behaviours. I expect that among those who regularly watched the JK Show, some will be being nosey/voyeurs, some will find the people in the spotlight's behaviour ridiculous, some will be amused and others entertained.

As said, I only watched it once but now reading about it I almost want to watch it occasionally. I enjoy Love Island as it's such a laugh to observe gender behaviours. I don't enjoy any of the other 'celebrity' or 'reality' shows.
 
Clearly no one drags them to the studio and forces them to appear, but is seems that, what to some, might appear as strong and irrestisible inducements - night in a hotel, the chance to get back at somone, 15 minutes of 'fame', are used to persuade people to appear.

.... I doubt very much that most of those people appearing had to be persuaded to have the chance to get back at someone so publicly or have 15 minutes of 'fame' - They would be banging on the TV programme's stage door and queuing to get in! You have only to have seen one episode of the show to realise that.
 
As said, I only watched it once but now reading about it I almost want to watch it occasionally. I enjoy Love Island as it's such a laugh to observe gender behaviours. I don't enjoy any of the other 'celebrity' or 'reality' shows.
There have been calls for Love Island to be axed as 2 former contestants have taken their own lives.
ITV were criticised for their mental health support/lack of afterwards.
 
BTW - "But a choice must be based on the person being fully informed & more importantly understanding what choosing to appear means???" With only very slight modification this is a good summing up of what happened on 23rd June 2016

I see what did there.........and enduring uncertainty the DC show created does this to me :banghead: :banghead::banghead:

But we digress ;)
 
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There have been calls for Love Island to be axed as 2 former contestants have taken their own lives.
ITV were criticised for their mental health support/lack of afterwards.

.... I don't think it's justifiable to blame a TV programme for the decision by someone to commit suicide but we unfortunately live in a blame culture. But, to be fair to you Robert, you did say "criticise" rather than "blame" and to criticise is merely to express a judgemental opinion.

In the case of Love Island, which I watched regularly, I am curious to learn what on earth the programme allegably did to be accountable for a very willing lurve seeking participant's suicide later.

It isn't healthy to live in a society in which people live in fear of being so readily and easily blamed and sued etc.
 
There have been calls for Love Island to be axed as 2 former contestants have taken their own lives.
ITV were criticised for their mental health support/lack of afterwards.

If they got rid of all the crap reality programs it would do society a massive favour.
 
Yes it is very sad that this man took his own life, but what I also find sad is How can ripping people apart on TV be entertainment is beyond words.
Human nature - ripping people to shreds either physically or verbally is what we love to watch.

Boxing for example!
 
.............

It isn't healthy to live in a society in which people live in fear of being so readily and easily blamed and sued etc.

Nor is it healthy to live in a society where there are reality TV programs that exist to humiliate (some?) participants for the vicarious gratification of the audience & viewers.
 
In the case of Love Island, which I watched regularly, I am curious to learn what on earth the programme allegably did to be accountable for a very willing
The naivete is astounding sometimes.
You genuinely believe that what you're watching is 'real' and that no production team is involved in manipulating any of the 'drama' to ensure there's something to broadcast.
Bless
 
...

It isn't healthy to live in a society in which people live in fear of being so readily and easily blamed and sued etc.
Hang on... So any 'victim' of any scam is a willing participant, and every poor unfortunate scammer ought to be able to profit from their misdemeanours without the risk of being sued. It's not naivete - it's defending those with power and hoping the proletariat don't notice they're being f***ed over again.

That truly is a privileged view of the world - it's a microcosm of the financial crisis - all those banks should be free of regulation to ensure they can make as much profit as possible (never mind the population they're conning money from) and then when their world comes crashing in they should be bailed out and not take responsibility for their actions.
 
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