Jewellery / Light tent

[cowasaki]

Well I'm not an expert but I have been playing with photographing jewellery for a couple of years. I have only been taking photos for a little bit longer than that so that does not mean much

Anyway Mrs_C (Helen) wanted her latest creation photographing so we set up to take the images. I will go through it just to give an idea to others who might be interested. We have two chairs with large flat wide arms and a table in between them that is about 3 inches lower. We set the light tent up on the table between the arms. Now the light tent came with two permanently on lights but to be honest they hurt my eyes, they gave off too much heat and I just didn't like them. So to replace them we have two Nikon flashes (an SB600 & SB800 in this case) which I am firing using CLS. I am also using the built in flash of the D700 set at -0.7EV. The camera is set onto a camera stand (like a mini tripod that came with the tent. The tent came from ebay for £25 including the stand and the two lights.

With this simple setup I placed a nearby object onto the blue background just as a test (yes I know the DOF wasn't enough for a remote but this was setup for jewellery ).

Well being reasonable happy with the image I placed a sheet of white matt photo paper onto the blue background and took a picture of something a bit smaller.

Right now onto the cufflinks.......

Ok not totally happy with the angle so created a slope using a plastic tool box and 6 DVD cases which I then placed one sheet of the white paper onto with another sheet stuck to it at and angle and placed far enough back that it curved away and upwards.

A bit too much reflection off the shiny item for my liking so placed the diffuser from one of the SB flashes over the built in flash of the camera. Now a bit dark I adjusted the EV to zero.

Right now I am much happier with the result so onto the pictures ...........

 

[cowasaki]

.... so now onto the pictures.

Quite happy now but still not completely happy with the diffuser balanced on the D700. So bring in one of the studio lamps fitted with a softbox and lighting the item from the front and high up.

Right back to the jewellery.....

Like I said, I'm not an expert but thought my results might be of interest in giving others an idea. Due to reflections jewellery can be quite challenging!

 

[wontolla]

Well I don't photograph much jewelery, but I do take pics of pocket watches that are silver & chrome. I found that as you do, you get reflections on light cards/backgrounds so I used black BGs. I had an old photo album with black pages so I cut them out and built a box like trough (2 sides/base/back, put this in the light tent and got better results and no reflections.

 

[malla1962]

Your white backgrounds are well under exposed.

 

[kirk09]

Your white backgrounds are well under exposed.

Was thinking the same aswell

Kirk

 

[cowasaki]

Your white backgrounds are well under exposed.

Yes, this is my next step. The white has affected the exposure so this is probably a closer image to what would be right but I still need to do something with that.

 

[cowasaki]

I would like to light the paper from underneath to blow it out. I am just thinking how to do this......

 

[bartoszwozniak]

I have photographed some bits of jewellery and to be honest, I use much less and my results are just as good I think. All I use is a table lamp, a mirror, a white sheet of paper and some natural light through the window. I set up, with the table lamp facing the mirror and the mirror facing the piece of jewellery to get a nice 'shine' on the piece. Then get a window with a lot of light and there you go! Sometimes I do use the built in flash, but not often at all. Here are some of my pics with this setup:
http://amber-man.co.uk/Gallery/galleria-1.0b/demo/img/P_02.JPG
http://amber-man.co.uk/Gallery/galleria-1.0b/demo/img/P_03.JPG
http://amber-man.co.uk/Gallery/galleria-1.0b/demo/img/B_03.JPG
http://amber-man.co.uk/Gallery/galleria-1.0b/demo/img/B_08.JPG

Just to add these photos were taken using an EF 18-200 IS lens on a 450D body, so not really a jewellery lens

Bart

 

[cowasaki]

I have photographed some bits of jewellery and to be honest, I use much less and my results are just as good I think. All I use is a table lamp, a mirror, a white sheet of paper and some natural light through the window. I set up, with the table lamp facing the mirror and the mirror facing the piece of jewellery to get a nice 'shine' on the piece. Then get a window with a lot of light and there you go! Sometimes I do use the built in flash, but not often at all. Here are some of my pics with this setup:
Just to add these photos were taken using an EF 18-200 IS lens on a 450D body, so not really a jewellery lens

Bart

Yes these are of a similar level. The biggest problem we have and the reason for this setup is reflection. Mrs_C makes lots of very shiny silver and these items are the bit that is most difficult to photograph. If you look at some of the edges of your items they are becoming blown due to the reflections. With an item that is flatter with more silver this would be more of a problem hence diffusing everything.

 

[cowasaki]

Anybody got any ideas on how I can fire a flash that is under a piece of paper If I up the power of any of the other lights then the reflection becomes a problem.......

Just had an idea of placing the item on top of a softbox pointing upwards ......

 

[cowasaki]

Well just popped downstairs and pointed the softbox upwards, placed a sheet of paper on it and another item of jewellery on top. Two SBs on tripods set at -3EV with diffusers at the side and doubled up pieces of paper folded into a U shape over them reducing their power even more. Softbox on minimum and camera hand held (I ran out of handy tripods!). This was the first shot and so I would say it is certainly worth further investigation.

Possibly sit the item on 4-5 pieces of paper to reduce the softbox light, larger aperture and place the camera on a third tripod.

Plus see if I can get the light stand lower or me higher so I can get a shot more downwards.

EDIT: Alternatively I should remember to reset the ISO from 6400 after messing with my camera between sessions

 

[cowasaki]

Right been downstairs again with the camera set to ISO 200 rather than 6500 !

Now sat on 4 sheets of paper as well.

Again, another quick one but certainly heading in the right direction and a piece of fluff in my camera.

 

[Venomator]

And the background has altered to grey with the extra sheets probably... :shrug:

I reckon you ought to consider a plain black bg or at the other end of the scale a crsip white perhaps Darren...

But the improvement is clearly evident and only experimenting will give you the results you are happy with...

 

[cowasaki]

I didn't have time to experiment fully but I plan on digging out a third tripod, using 2 sheets of paper and switching to manual. Could do with a light meter really but will have to wait a few weeks for that. This is all an experiment to find the best method using the equipment I have if possible.

 

[CGeezer]

I would have to agree with a black background myself as the colours compliment each other so well. Have you tried black or are you determined on the white background? You seem to be getting a lot closer to your goal and sitting the paper on the softbox is a great idea. On another note the jewellery is exquisite Mrs C

 

[cowasaki]

Mrs C wants the jewellery on a dark grey to white gradient eventually. I am still learning about photography and finding the best way to photograph her shiny things on a white background is a challenge that is teaching me about all manner of things. I have actually bought a load of black velvet and made several platforms and shapes with the velvet for taking the jewellery shots. If I take an item outside and photograph it I can get an even image but again I am trying to learn how to do it so that I can re-create it.

I still need to find somewhere where I can get a 1ft square piece of frosted acrylic hopefully locally.

 

[CGeezer]

You will have to replicate the same settings again and again so I can see what you are getting at. No good using natural light in this case as I would think It will probably have to match shots taken weeks or months apart to be uniform on the website.

 

[Mrs Cowasaki]

On another note the jewellery is exquisite Mrs C

Thank you very much John! Very kind. I'm not liking all these close up shots though - they show up all the flaws in my jewellery! Mind you, it can only help me to improve things. I must work harder on my polishing!

As for backgrounds, black velvet is SO 70's, and black or white don't work as well as a graduated grey background. Check out the work of Amy Burkholder in the following link:
http://www.ganoksin.com/exhibition/v/orchid/AmyBurkholder/

That's the grey graduated background I'm talking about - it really makes the jewellery pop. I've asked on my jewellery forum, as have other people, and the consensus of opinion from those in the know is a light tent with diffused light through the sides and from the front, and the jewellery on a graduated grey background. It's a case of getting everything right, including the lighting and the camera settings. I'm not sure Darren's upward pointing softbox is going down the right path. I've shown him the background I want to use in my light tent, but he and everyone else seems to have other ideas which are veering away from the results I know I want. :bang:

We'll get there in the end hopefully, but if anyone has any suggestions after seeing the above link, I'm all ears, thanks.

 

[Wookie]

Hi, we've been lurking on this thread as we're trying to learn about product shot lighting

3 thoughts on the Amy Burkholder shots:

- photoshop: the ginko ring and the earrings look slightly odd to me. Wierd pixel trails outside the upper edges of the subjects. Inner diameters on the ring in wrong place?, have supports for the earrings been removed? . . . has the faded background been added afterwards?

- the backgrounds are inconsistent between their shots, that looks wrong to me as a website presentation. Using graduated card as a backdrop is going to be difficult to maintain consistency unless lighting strengths, positioning (products lamps & camera) and focal length all remain identical. I'd venture to suggest you shoot on a plain background then add the graduated background afterwards just to get consistency.

- could masking the top light to produce a shadow on the white backdrop get the fade to dark grey?

just thoughts, no expertise here

 

[cowasaki]

Hi, we've been lurking on this thread as we're trying to learn about product shot lighting

3 thoughts on the Amy Burkholder shots:

- photoshop: the ginko ring and the earrings look slightly odd to me. Wierd pixel trails outside the upper edges of the subjects. Inner diameters on the ring in wrong place?, have supports for the earrings been removed? . . . has the faded background been added afterwards?

- the backgrounds are inconsistent between their shots, that looks wrong to me as a website presentation. Using graduated card as a backdrop is going to be difficult to maintain consistency unless lighting strengths, positioning (products lamps & camera) and focal length all remain identical. I'd venture to suggest you shoot on a plain background then add the graduated background afterwards just to get consistency.

- could masking the top light to produce a shadow on the white backdrop get the fade to dark grey?

just thoughts, no expertise here

Hence the white backgrounds

If I can sort it with a white, green or blue background and add the gradient later then I will.

 

[Mrs Cowasaki]

Yes, I see what you're saying about the photos in question Lawrence. It does look like she (or whoever photographs her work) has cut out the jewellery in photoshop and added the background later. It looks like the edges have been feathered or something as they are not crisp. I also see what you mean about the inner diameters of the Gingko ring not being in the right place. I think the earring supports have also been photoshopped out, as have any supports used to stand the rings up.

However, it was just to show the effect I'm after. Her photos only show the anomalies you mention, if you zoom right into them. At normal viewing size, they look really good, and I'd certainly be happy if my images turned out that good.

As for shooting against a white background and adding the gradient later, I think we should try both approaches, ie shooting against a physical graduated background too, and see which works best.

I've just emailed Amy to ask how she does her photography, so hopefully I'll get a reply later today.

 

[Chaz Photos]

The first thing I noticed is you talk about a light tent?
This is not a light tent a tent will look like a wigwam tent and have a opening for your lens to shoot through
How are you doing you exposures? manual would be the only way for me, with all that white your camera would not get it right.

 

[cowasaki]

Right, this is an example of what she wants.

Note this is an early piece that has been hanging around for months getting more and more scratched! As the level of polishing goes up the headaches get worse.:bonk:

We have been going round and round with different ideas for ages. Reflections are the biggest problem. Shooting on a green background makes cutting it out apparently easier but you get reflections on the silver of the green. Edges have to be feathered to loose any hint of green. I am thinking of dismantling an old slave triggerable flash and building it into a black plastic box with the lid replaced by a sheet of brushed acrylic. I will use Manual to fine tune the exposure but there are lots of little problems that crop up with every attempt and every possible idea

I did get some black velvet and cover blocks of wood with them. The was better from the reflection point of view but Helen isn't keen on the black velvet background and wanted one like that above.

 

[Venomator]

Right, this is an example of what she wants.

In that case you have it... :shrug: ...job done...


On a more serious note Darren/Helen... ... I always think jewellery looks much, much better at the inclination in which it is normally seen... :shrug: ... for instance your scratched to buggery example piece should be as if dangling from an ear/neck or whatever...

Could you not dangle it from an easily 'shopped out thread perhaps... :shrug: ... and that way you will avoid a lot of the shadow reflection issues from it being in contact with the surface imhgo...

Or am I barking mad up the wrong tree again...

In which case just ignore me... again...

 

[BalSanghera]

I read a article somewhere about how to take great jewellery photos, basically all the person did was get a nice black cloth and lay it on a table then placed a flat piece of clean glass over the top, got a table lamp and took the shot... Looked great.

 

[cowasaki]

I read a article somewhere about how to take great jewellery photos, basically all the person did was get a nice black cloth and lay it on a table then placed a flat piece of clean glass over the top, got a table lamp and took the shot... Looked great.

Thanks but unfortunately I've done that one already, bought the black velvet etc. Helen does not like it as it looks rather dated! :bonk::bonk::bonk::bonk:

 

[cowasaki]

In that case you have it... :shrug: ...job done...


On a more serious note Darren/Helen... ... I always think jewellery looks much, much better at the inclination in which it is normally seen... :shrug: ... for instance your scratched to buggery example piece should be as if dangling from an ear/neck or whatever...

Thanks, this IS the closest example but the problem is that I want to get the background more and more white so I can cut it out more easily whilst still having shadows (see the example at the end of the tail). If we were chatting away in the pub about how to get the shots it would be easy but it is the actual physical examples that are not easy.

Some problems.

Silver is VERY reflective (we don't want too many reflections though)
If you use a coloured background to make cutting it out then you get reflections of the colour.
Black material is a dated look.
I am trying to get something that is repeatable (so using flash lighting is best?)
Gems look better under lit (you can see this effect on the tanzanite in the above shot (middle gem of the three, the sapphire (the top one) is a little darker)
The edges are very difficult to define when something is shiny.
This was hard enough to cut out so it looked right imagine what something with a chain would be like!

Could you not dangle it from an easily 'shopped out thread perhaps... :shrug: ... and that way you will avoid a lot of the shadow reflection issues from it being in contact with the surface imhgo...

Or am I barking mad up the wrong tree again...

In which case just ignore me... again...

Yes we have thought about the thread idea and that is something else we are looking at but then you loose the shadow like it has on the tail.

 

[Wookie]

do you have a copy of Light Science & Magic to hand? I've just bought it and browsing ahead to the metals chapter it looks like it covers a lot of lighting techniques that could be useful for this.

 

[cowasaki]

do you have a copy of Light Science & Magic to hand? I've just bought it and browsing ahead to the metals chapter it looks like it covers a lot of lighting techniques that could be useful for this.

Nope. Will give it a quick look ont' web.

 

[irw1]

Just a thought Darren - but if you want to have simple or complex subjects clipped from the background, I have a contact that does stunning quality clipping work, for very little money. (Not affiliated to me at all!) If you like I can PM you their details? They'd do a couple of free testers to show you how good they are too.

We use them to clip about 100 complex items a month - we FTP the files over and they're back in 24hrs. It means I can concentrate on lighting the subject to perfection and not worry about the background - it might be considered "cheating", but makes it sooo much easier to get great results!

 

[cowasaki]

Just a thought Darren - but if you want to have simple or complex subjects clipped from the background, I have a contact that does stunning quality clipping work, for very little money. (Not affiliated to me at all!) If you like I can PM you their details? They'd do a couple of free testers to show you how good they are too.

We use them to clip about 100 complex items a month - we FTP the files over and they're back in 24hrs. It means I can concentrate on lighting the subject to perfection and not worry about the background - it might be considered "cheating", but makes it sooo much easier to get great results!

Thanks, I will bare that in mind and will speak to Helen about it

Thing is I am trying to see if I can manage it. It's become a bit of a challenge too.

I really think that the gubbins from an old flash or two. Some opaque plexiglass type material and a plastic box might get me what I am looking for so that I have it whenever I need it. I might put a call out for some broken lighting equipment

 

[irw1]

No worries mate.

Ohh, and please tell Helen that I haven't forgotten about the cufflinks we spoke about a while back, and I will be in touch soon!

 

[cowasaki]

No worries mate.

Ohh, and please tell Helen that I haven't forgotten about the cufflinks we spoke about a while back, and I will be in touch soon!

Will do, just to give you an idea this is another item she made:

This would not be the easiest to cut out whilst keeping the shadows. Hence the thread.

 

[irw1]

Lovely necklace!! I totally understand your reasons for the thread mate, and don't blame you for wanting to get it right in-camera at all. It's only a suggestion in case it was of use for the future, or if you had a few "hero" shots that you wanted clipping for promotional purposes etc...

Btw, they'd have no probs clipping that, even keeping the shadow if that's what you asked for - they are seriously masters at their art - and the work is faultless imo. It would be considered "Complex" in their pricing structure I imagine, and would cost approx.4 euros to do!

 

[cowasaki]

Lovely necklace!! I totally understand your reasons for the thread mate, and don't blame you for wanting to get it right in-camera at all. It's only a suggestion in case it was of use for the future, or if you had a few "hero" shots that you wanted clipping for promotional purposes etc...

Btw, they'd have no probs clipping that, even keeping the shadow if that's what you asked for - they are seriously masters at their art - and the work is faultless imo. It would be considered "Complex" in their pricing structure I imagine, and would cost approx.4 euros to do!

4 euros !! I think you are right about it being a good idea. I will speak to Helen about it and see what she wants to do. I have loads of ideas flying round my head about how to do it.

The latest idea would be a sheet of the opaque material about 18" square that then curves upwards at one end. I may well make a box out of MDF curved as I described and lined with reflective material. Then inside I was going to light it using flash tubes with a variable power control on the side and either PC sync or a flash detector of some description. There are some great light boxes available that are not stupidly priced so I need to price it up before I end up spending more money on a home made project that is not as good as something I could just buy

 

[Mrs Cowasaki]

On a more serious note Darren/Helen... ... I always think jewellery looks much, much better at the inclination in which it is normally seen... :shrug: ... for instance your scratched to buggery example piece should be as if dangling from an ear/neck or whatever...

Cheers Venomator!!! I know it's scratched to buggery and told Darren off vehemently for using that piece. It's an old piece. Every time he decides to share a picture of one of my pieces of jewellery, he always chooses the earliest, most badly made and badly polished pieces - I could happily throttle him sometimes.

Could you not dangle it from an easily 'shopped out thread perhaps... :shrug: ... and that way you will avoid a lot of the shadow reflection issues from it being in contact with the surface imhgo...

Or am I barking mad up the wrong tree again...

In which case just ignore me... again...

No, it's a good suggestion and one we're going to also look into. I think we're starting to get there. I need to make some great pieces for him to take photos of. Unfortunately, all my best pieces have made it out the door too quickly to be photographed - my own fault for being fairly unorganised!

 

[Mrs Cowasaki]

The first thing I noticed is you talk about a light tent?
This is not a light tent a tent will look like a wigwam tent and have a opening for your lens to shoot through
How are you doing you exposures? manual would be the only way for me, with all that white your camera would not get it right.

So why does everyone who sells such things call them light tents? I'm not sure what settings Darren is using.

 

[Flashman]

One technique I use for jewelery, when appropriate, is to suspend the piece either from wire or from magicians 'invisible thread' inside the light tent. I then light the jewelery as needed (a ringflash is often my choice) and use a focusing spot to blow the background (which is only about a foot away from the jewellery) in the traditional high key portrait stylee. It gives a really pleasing effect with minimal PP. I try to minimise the opening through which I shoot the ringflash and the spot to cut down on reflections. Simple job to remove the wire/thread in PP.

 

[Mrs Cowasaki]

I read a article somewhere about how to take great jewellery photos, basically all the person did was get a nice black cloth and lay it on a table then placed a flat piece of clean glass over the top, got a table lamp and took the shot... Looked great.

As I've said (probably a couple of times), I don't like the black cloth background - it's SO 70's! I've posted an example of the type of background I want to have. The reason I want that type of graduated grey background, is because it's become a bit of an industry standard within the jewellery community. It makes the jewellery pop and looks more professional than some amateur shots taken against black or white, etc. I'm working hard to improve the quality of the jewellery I make, and Darren and I are working hard to produce professional quality images.

But I do appreciate you input obviously.

 

[Mrs Cowasaki]

One technique I use for jewelery, when appropriate, is to suspend the piece either from wire or from magicians 'invisible thread' inside the light tent. I then light the jewelery as needed (a ringflash is often my choice) and use a focusing spot to blow the background (which is only about a foot away from the jewellery) in the traditional high key portrait stylee. It gives a really pleasing effect with minimal PP. I try to minimise the opening through which I shoot the ringflash and the spot to cut down on reflections. Simple job to remove the wire/thread in PP.

Thanks Keith. A ring flash is a good suggestion, and is something which is used by quite a few jewellers I know who take their own photographs. Everyone does something a little different, or else it would be simple to just ask them how they do it.

We're going to look into the idea of suspending pieces which should be suspended. The graduated grey background will be added in photoshop afterwards.

You've got one photograph of jewellery on your website, as far as I can see - and it looks very dark, with lots of reflections on the metal itself. This seems to go against what you are saying?

Thanks for the suggestions Keith.