Karate Do… exploration session

[Kodiak Qc]

•


These brothers are operating a Karate Do and want to
produce promotional printed material.

They are completely unaware of the photographic ap-
proach; so I proposed them a test session aiming ex-
ploring the rigorously demanding exercise in term of
precision and patience from their part.

They said they love this picture and could not have ima-
gine how much work goes into it to get a pre-scenarized
move right…

​

 

[sirch]

I wonder what these would be like with a bit of blur from rear curtain sync?

 

[Kodiak Qc]

I wonder what these would be like with a bit of blur from rear curtain sync?

Legitimate, Chris, the purpose though was not yet to produce
a picture but to show them that their ambition requires lots of
preparation, repetition and patience in the execution. All these
being time demanding, will have an impact on the final efforts
from their part and affect the production price.

At this point, proper scenario and execution is all that is consi-
dered… lighting and expression will come later.

 

[juggler]

The timing and expressions are fab.

These would better & much more dramatic if shot from a lower viewpoint, and both could do with a little more breathing room round the edges.

The background is way too busy; the picture is a significant distraction. If it absolutely had to be there then it could have been darker and / or more out of focus, or you could have arranged your rim light to separate the fighters more effectively.

HTH

 

[Kodiak Qc]

The timing and expressions are fab.

The timing is my part of the work, of course but the expressions
are theirs. It was a long and repetitive session and I was happy
they still had fire until the end!

For their purpose, action shots had to be chosen and scenarized
so they could be executed until almost perfection in their sense.
The picture in the BG is a prerogative in a dōjō: the Master has al-
ways centre stage… not negotiable for them.

The two gentlemen are short, massive and very fast energy bombs,
I was very grateful they are well tempered and patient athletes.

This was an exploration session where paramount was…

• perfect execution of all moves
• proper positioning of the Master in the scene
• they wanted totally frozen action shots
• the pictures MUST be taken at the dōjō and the
  decor is what it is; the place is a communal room
  at their disposition for the classes.

Any other consideration regarding drama etc were not in the scope
of this exploratory session that was meant to fine tune martial arts
and HSS photography.

You could have come to these conclusion yourself if

• you had read the OP and understood what was intended
• have a better understanding of the necessity of fine tuning
  the shoot
• had another attitude than "I know" and more one that would
  suggest that your tried to visualise the task defined by their
  ambition and directed in a way that will make or produce the
  images they have in their head.

That is what I was paid for and they are very happy with a session
that made them understand and sweat the difficulties ahead.

HTH.

 

[juggler]

The timing is my part of the work, of course but the expressions
are theirs. It was a long and repetitive session and I was happy
they still had fire until the end!

For their purpose, action shots had to be chosen and scenarized
so they could be executed until almost perfection in their sense.
The picture in the BG is a prerogative in a dōjō: the Master has al-
ways centre stage… not negotiable for them.

The two gentlemen are short, massive and very fast energy bombs,
I was very grateful they are well tempered and patient athletes.

This was an exploration session where paramount was…

• perfect execution of all moves
• proper positioning of the Master in the scene
• they wanted totally frozen action shots
• the pictures MUST be taken at the dōjō and the
  decor is what it is; the place is a communal room
  at their disposition for the classes.

Any other consideration regarding drama etc were not in the scope
of this exploratory session that was meant to fine tune martial arts
and HSS photography.

You could have come to these conclusion yourself if

• you had read the OP and understood what was intended
• have a better understanding of the necessity of fine tuning
  the shoot
• had another attitude than "I know" and more one that would
  suggest that your tried to visualise the task defined by their
  ambition and directed in a way that will make or produce the
  images they have in their head.

That is what I was paid for and they are very happy with a session
that made them understand and sweat the difficulties ahead.

HTH.

You really don't like receiving feedback, do you?
I could suggest a number of ways in which you could have met your own brief and made much better pictures* but you clearly think they are perfect and you're not going to listen so I won't bother.

* fwiw I subject my own work to this kind of scrutiny too - when I look back I can always see room for improvement.

Out of interest... can you really see no way you might have made these better?

 

[Kodiak Qc]

You really don't like receiving feedback, do you? I could suggest a number of ways in which you could have met your own brief and made much better pictures* but you clearly think they are perfect and you're not going to listen so I won't bother. * fwiw I subject my own work to this kind of scrutiny too - when I look back I can always see room for improvement.
Out of interest... can you really see no way you might have made these better?

I shall then repeat:
For their purpose, action shots had to be chosen and scenarized
so they could be executed until almost perfection in their sense.
The picture in the BG is a prerogative in a dōjō: the Master has al-
ways centre stage… not negotiable for them.

This was an exploration shoot for them as their ambitions imply great
work and costs from the production view and hard training and repeat-
ion for them.

I could suggest

Cool but you don't realise that at this point it was more a session to fine
tune the execution of scenarized moves.

 

[juggler]

I shall then repeat:
For their purpose, action shots had to be chosen and scenarized
so they could be executed until almost perfection in their sense.
The picture in the BG is a prerogative in a dōjō: the Master has al-
ways centre stage… not negotiable for them.

This was an exploration shoot for them as their ambitions imply great
work and costs from the production view and hard training and repeat-
ion for them.

Cool but you don't realise that at this point it was more a session to fine
tune the execution of scenarized moves.

Well, since we're shouting, I'll repeat myself too. And I'll use big writing, 'cos I can press buttons as well.

There are a number of ways in which you could have met your own brief and made much better pictures.

And I'll ask again

Can you really see no way you might have made these better?

Right, I'm not going to reply again until you answer that one.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

And I'll ask again

NO, not in the scope of the session… when everything is decided,
then the scope other.

Please, get out of my cloud… you are as pleasant as a mosquito.

 

[Bluedog]

Kodiak, do you think you could of made them better though? Seriously genuine question!

 

[Kodiak Qc]

Kodiak, do you think you could of made them better though? Seriously genuine question!

Given the task. Paul, the short answer is no. The aim was reached
both in martial arts and in "mise en scene". They have to evaluate if,
for the amount of work on both side of the lens, their idea is worth it.

This is like sketching an idea: should you care for the colour of the
pencil? …or of the paper?

Should they decide to go forward, than the task will be different.

 

[sunnyside_up]

Perhaps you should be posting in ‘photos for pleasure’ If you’re not willing to accept feedback and critique.

 

[juggler]

Given the task. Paul, the short answer is no.

My gob is smacked
My flabber is gasted
My dumb is founded
My thunder is struck

in other words, I am over my whelm.

Please, get out of my cloud… you are as pleasant as a mosquito.

I'll take that as a compliment. Feel free to put me on ignore.

The only reason I haven't done the same to you is that now the much-missed @Pookeyhead has left these shores - and he is much more abrasive and experienced than me - is that someone needs to
(a) challenge the rot you sometimes spout
(b) offer the view that maybe - just - maybe - some of your photography isn't very good
(c) attempt to pierce your incredibly thick hide.

I'll just remind you that this forum isn't intended as a willy waving competition. That's what instagram is for.

It's a place for us to learn from each other. I'm going to regret asking this but.. why are you here if you're unwilling to do that?

 

[Kodiak Qc]

•
juggler

Some 16 members, guessing that I would possibly not understand,
warned me of the language you use.

I have no interest in playing your juvenile games.

Kodiak over and out …/

 

[juggler]

•
juggler

Some 16 members, guessing that I would possibly not understand,
warned me of the language you use.

I had no idea that my use of English was so widely commented upon! I admit that I can be both verbose and whimsical but I tend to think that my language is nice - in the old fashioned sense of the word: precise, accurate, targeted, considered.
Anyway.. it's a UK-based English language forum. I don't feel the need to dumb down my witterings.

I have no interest in playing your juvenile games.

I think that's the first really rude thing either of us has said. Fortunately I've learned to floccinaucinihilipilificate your views.

Kodiak over and out …/

I've noticed that you often say that when you realise your arguments have gone a bit flat.

byee!!

 

[Bluedog]

Kodiak, i understand the brief totally. I get it. But you still could 'Artistically' improve the shot in post for us 'photographers' I find a lot of people who i photograph for would love ANYTHING i snap, even when i know its crap. Just because they love it doesn't mean its great photo. But bringing a 'Pro' photo on here, your going to get it scrutinised with an inch of its life so you have to deal with POSITIVE critique. Can only make you a better photographer no matter how long you've been a 'Pro' Can only be a good thing for you, yes?

So i understand Jugglers frustration with you.

So improvements CAN be made to your photo. I had a little minor tinker to bring out 'The best' of your photo. A bit of space to let them 'breath' and a bit of Depth of field while still have the Dojo in the background, which you still recognise. Much more dynamic and less one dimensional.

 

[juggler]

I'm in two minds about posting this. You'll probably take it personally but that's not my intent.

It applies to EVERYONE, and we all need reminders from time to time.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

i understand the brief totally

I have a long time friend that is a calligraphist. She does
such beautiful work that, over the years, I bought some
nine pieces she produced… so proud to own /enjoy these.

One day, I happened to pay very close attention to her real
handwriting and it is waaaay not better than my own. She
said: — "…even I have to write grocery lists sometimes!"

I understand clearly your thoughts here, Paul, but the brief
was to show them the difficulties and related costs of their
ambition. For this, I ONLY had to demonstrate in pictures how
scenarisatiion and execution may be very critical from their
part, direction and HHS from mine. Behind all that, there were
the non-negotiables: the Master and the dōjō.

I sent the brothers your rendition suggestion, I should get a
reply latest tomorrow.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

I'm not going to reply again until you answer that one.

I did not answer your question… so what are you still doing here?

 

[arthurbikemad]

I prefer the last edit and I think all the comments are justified.

The OP is (or claims to be) a professional photographer, as a pro you expect said person to maintain professionalism at all times, even here, you can't complain about others who offer critique in a section of the forum dedicated to that and given that the OP critiques other peoples work when his own does not meet the same standard I find bizarre!!

Personally I find the photos boring, inconsistent and bland, FYI I have studied Jujitsu for many years, I think the shots required much more dramatic lighting, as for timing, the first shot could be done stood still, I can still hold that position no problem so you would have had all day to get the shot, the second, drop kicks are easy to repeat and again for myself I could make them look better than they actually are for a photo, in other words when power and target are not an issue they can be made to look good.

 

[Bluedog]

but the brief
was to show them the difficulties and related costs of their
ambition

I understand that.
But my main comment was to improve it for us lot on this thread. Not the client.

So this is the million dollar question...do you think its an improvement?

 

[MatBin]

One view is, so long as the Client is happy who cares what we think of the shot, however, it is in the Critique section so it's fair game to critique in my view.

I would suggest if critique is not required it should be posted in another section of the Forum where viewing only is allowed (If we have one of those sections), if critique is required then it may benefit you to take on board the suggestions offered.

I wont critique your photos, I have tried and been rebutted with your tag line (if personal taste etc) on a number of occasions and I fear many others will soon take the same view.

Without wishing to be rude - Daniel you rarely accept any form of critique, you usually have a reason why other very experienced/gifted forum members are wrong and you are right, that being the case I can see only the very toughest/dogged of people continuing to try and offer constructive criticism to you, the rest will simply look at your photos, form an opinion and move onto the next photo they wish to view.

I dont think anyone on here is trying to be unkind but you do seem to often take it that way, I think we all appreciate English isnt your native language and take that into account but you run the very real risk soon of being ignored.
At least that is my take on it.

Matt

 

[Marc]

Let's call a halt to the arguing shall we?

Daniel, this forum is all about critique/feedback. If you don't want any, then Photos for Pleasure is your go to section. "The client is happy" is not really relevant when sharing your work here.

Everyone else, if you don't feel your feedback is appreciated, best just to move on rather than continue to argue the point.

 

[Phil-D]

The OP is (or claims to be) a professional photographer, as a pro you expect said person to maintain professionalism at all times, even here, you can't complain about others who offer critique in a section of the forum dedicated to that and given that the OP critiques other peoples work when his own does not meet the same standard I find bizarre!!

very well put

 

[PaulButler]

Everyone else, if you don't feel your feedback is appreciated, best just to move on rather than continue to argue the point.

The problem with that Marc is that the "one who is never wrong" sets himself up as the defacto expert in all things photography (even to the point of inventing his own terminology and acronyms) and if left unchallenged people who are just starting out will believe to be right. So when the "one who is never wrong" posts what are frankly very ordinary images and rails at the considered, constructive, informed and polite critique I don't believe it is everyone else that needs to move on.

 

[juggler]

The problem with that Marc is that the "one who is never wrong" sets himself up as the defacto expert in all things photography (even to the point of inventing his own terminology and acronyms) and if left unchallenged people who are just starting out will believe to be right. So when the "one who is never wrong" posts what are frankly very ordinary images and rails at the considered, constructive, informed and polite critique I don't believe it is everyone else that needs to move on.

Paul, thank you. My point exactly.

 

[Marc]

The problem with that Marc is that the "one who is never wrong" sets himself up as the defacto expert in all things photography (even to the point of inventing his own terminology and acronyms) and if left unchallenged people who are just starting out will believe to be right. So when the "one who is never wrong" posts what are frankly very ordinary images and rails at the considered, constructive, informed and polite critique I don't believe it is everyone else that needs to move on.

Paul, thank you. My point exactly.

Hence my first paragraph. Arguing with him hasn't exactly resolved anything, has it?

I'm going to close the thread as it isn't achieving anything other than ill feeling.