Wild Kingfisher with a Bullhead

den

den

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Dennis
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One from my sunday session with the birds
I came home minus a pair of binoculars and a lost boot ,doomed to the river forever ,and to top it off my chair hide collasped on me disapointed with that mainly because it was the third stealth gear hide i have had and they have all failed early with the same problem,and its not me as i am only 12 stone ,wont be getting another Kingfisher with Bullhead (1 of 1) by dennis greenwood, on Flickr
 
A really wonderful capture den. Such a shame you lost all that kit though.
 
swag72 said:
Wowsers!! You are certainly extremely good at this photographing birds lark :) What a great skill to have :)
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It is a lovely picture, I think I have only ever seen a kingfisher as a 'flash of blue' as my wife shouts "kingfisher.

Is it really a great skill ? find out where the kingfishers frequent. You need to set up a hide. Find or instigate a suitable resting place for the bird. Ideally you need some quality (expensive) telephoto glass..

Lots of patience to sit in the hide hour after hour.

Does it need any particular photography skill ? certainly to photograph the flying bird it is more specialized.

I am not trying to belittle your lovely picture but I think there are many 'mundane' photography subjects that require as much or more skill ?
 
badlywornroy said:
It is a lovely picture, I think I have only ever seen a kingfisher as a 'flash of blue' as my wife shouts "kingfisher.

Is it really a great skill ? find out where the kingfishers frequent. You need to set up a hide. Find or instigate a suitable resting place for the bird. Ideally you need some quality (expensive) telephoto glass..

Lots of patience to sit in the hide hour after hour.

Does it need any particular photography skill ? certainly to photograph the flying bird it is more specialized.

I am not trying to belittle your lovely picture but I think there are many 'mundane' photography subjects that require as much or more skill ?
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If only it was as easy as you put it,some will agree some will disagree ,me i find BIF easier especialy with todays cameras ,spray and pray you cant go wrong ,now turning those shots in to art ,now thats were the skill is to me ,field craft ,knowledge of the subject, experience ,and as you will know your equipment is just a tool , i do see your point but in my opinion its a certainly a sweeping comment ...:)
 
badlywornroy said:
It is a lovely picture, I think I have only ever seen a kingfisher as a 'flash of blue' as my wife shouts "kingfisher.

Is it really a great skill ? find out where the kingfishers frequent. You need to set up a hide. Find or instigate a suitable resting place for the bird. Ideally you need some quality (expensive) telephoto glass..

Lots of patience to sit in the hide hour after hour.

Does it need any particular photography skill ? certainly to photograph the flying bird it is more specialized.

I am not trying to belittle your lovely picture but I think there are many 'mundane' photography subjects that require as much or more skill ?
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I Dont for one second believe i am skillful , i say many times in my post that luck plays a big part .
I reckon its just my passion (obsession ) call it what you will that gets me my shots ,but i am quite happy to loan you what equipment i have and leave you on the river for a day and lets see what you come back with ,not trying to be funny but when i started my photography it was this forum and the like minded people that helped me turn that flash of blue you see in to a full framed shot of a kingfisher with a fish in its mouth...(y)
 
badlywornroy said:
It is a lovely picture, I think I have only ever seen a kingfisher as a 'flash of blue' as my wife shouts "kingfisher.

Is it really a great skill ? find out where the kingfishers frequent. You need to set up a hide. Find or instigate a suitable resting place for the bird. Ideally you need some quality (expensive) telephoto glass..

Lots of patience to sit in the hide hour after hour.

Does it need any particular photography skill ? certainly to photograph the flying bird it is more specialized.

I am not trying to belittle your lovely picture but I think there are many 'mundane' photography subjects that require as much or more skill ?
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What you don't see in this image is the time and effort that went into the shot. The endless patience, responding to changing light so that when/if the bird comes you are ready to take the best image that you can. not letting your mind wander so that you miss the chance.

So yes it's a skill, a different skill from say macro but still a skill and whilst luck probably does play a part for all of us you don't get so many first rate images by being lucky.

So give it a go, how hard can it be.
 
Den a truly wonderful image a shame you lost some kit as well as a boot but I'd lose my entire clothes to get something as good as this, so take the positive and ignore negative as you have done extremey well

Roy the skill involved in this image as in many of Dens images is fieldcraft, the ability to find your subject, being in the right place at the right time to acquire a shot like this,Kingfishers are fairly difficult to find never mind photograph, most of us only see a blue blur, birds in flight on the other hand can be frustrating but are far easier to achieve as they are in the open and usually above you a kingfisher doesnt fly very high and is difficult to see, I have only ever seen a handful of Kingfishers and never been able to get a shot of one, the dedication Dens shows most of us in truth couldnt be botheed with but we can go to Bempton cliffs in North Yorkshire and photograph Gannets Puffins and other seabirds and guarantee to get some excellent in flight images, same at Gigrin farm for the Red Kites

It is undoubtably a skill in knowing what you are doing, where to go at certain times of the day, if no show where else to go I wouldnt have a clue..... as for luck yes it does play a part but mostly a very small part and as the saying goes the harder I work at something the luckier I get
 
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Well I expected a 'mauling' for my questioning the use of the term "what a great skill to have" as within the genre I see 'birders' as the Rottweiler of the species. :) however I would liken that more to being drooled on by a labrador than savaged by a Rottie.

I was not questioning the beauty of the photograph or den's patience and application in capturing it, just the over-hyped terminology.

We photographers (pardon me for including myself) are a precious bunch are we not ?

I would use the term "a great skill to have" to describe the surgeon wielding the scalpel or Leonardo da Vinci painting 'The Last Supper' ?

I often see the term as used above by den " as you will know your equipment is just a tool " this is the oft repeated maxim of photographers (I may have even used it myself) that degrades the equipment from the picture taking process and gives the vast bulk of the credit to the human.

The scalpel is the surgeons tool, the brush is da Vinci's tool and without the human involvement there is nothing.

I cannot in all honesty see the modern day camera in this context "just a tool"

Assuming I have accepted den's very generous offer " i am quite happy to loan you what equipment i have " what next ? well after discovering where the best places are to see the kingfisher, word of mouth, local library (fieldcraft ?)

I set up my hide, let the local wildlife get used to it for a few days, then with my flask of hot chocolate, sandwiches, tripod, camera and 600mm f4 lens I settle down in my hide.

I train my lens on a likely resting place over the water, set the camera exposure/shutter speed/aperture/iso as desired, take a few test shots, and wait.

I repeat this for a week then on the 8th day after my hot chocolate and sandwiches I begin to feel sleepy so I set the intervalometer on my camera and doze off.

I wake up and after much 'chimping' I find I have got lucky, a beautiful well exposed shot of the Kingfisher !

I liken this to the chimp sitting playing at the piano, given long enough eventually he will play 'Rhapsody in Blue'

So I will meet you half-way 'a skill' of course, a great skill ? sorry that's overegging it.

Keep up the good work den you are obviously a talented photographer.

Hmm, when does talent become a great skill . . . . . . I guess I better leave it there. :bat:

Peace & Love.
 
Well thanks for at least coming back,i will put your assumptions on how to go about getting wildlife shots as ignorance ,and i dont mean that in a insulting way ,if you look on my website and view all my archived images you will notice that the longest lens i have used up untill may 2016 are with a 400mm 5.6 ...both my kidneys would have had to have been sold to afford a 600mm so you wouldnt be getting one of them.
Going on to the Kingfishers ,me personaly i spend all my spare time watching and studying the birds ,books ,talks meeting people ,finding were they will fish ,why they fish ,what they do if the river is high,the list is endless ,so i do find your method on how to get a good kingfisher shot rather patronizing ,but as said ,i aint going to fall out with you over it as in my opinion it is just ignorance,...i bet i could change your views if you spent a full dawn to dusk day with me armed with just a 300mm (y)
 
Skill, talent, craftsmanship; call it what you will. Den has it in abundance and it really shows in his images.

As someone who spends most of my time shooting macro; often described as one of the most difficult photography genres (I don't believe that to be true though) I can only dream of one day being able to get a shot like this. Part of that is because I don't really have any decent long focal length lenses (but this issue can be overcome), but it's mainly because I don't have the time to be able to dedicate learning the field craft and patiently waiting for my subject to arrive. With macro it least i can nip out into the garden and see what I can find and come back with a huge variety of subjects of all shapes and sizes within about half an hour. I must say, it took me a fair few excursions into the garden before I could do it with any level of competence (there is field craft for being able to stalk a fly too you know)!

I'm sure most of us, given sufficient time and training would be able to come back with something approaching the quality of this image. At the same time I'm sure most of us, given sufficient time and training, could become pretty good surgeons too. That doesn't detract from the fact that I can admire and enjoy the work of someone who has put in the time and experience to develop the skills required to come back with something this decent.

And on a similar note, I'm a firm believer in making your own luck. The more time you spend out in the field the more likely you are to encounter great subjects to shoot. Tie that in with knowledge of where to go looking and how to get there without being noticed and luck goes pretty much out the window.
 
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I have never been a 'birder' although I do love nature and all wildlife. Too many other beautiful interesting things to photograph.

I did manage to take this one with a Panasonic G1 and a 50-200mm f4-5.6 lens. Sedge warbler I believe.

i-WKMWxV2.jpg

I do think the two most important attributes to taking a shot such as your Kingfisher study are 1. money to afford suitable equipment. 2. Free time to devote to waiting for the opportunity to present itself.

Given 1 & 2 I honestly believe most competent photographers are capable of such a shot (including me)

I forget to share my views on the skill of 'fieldcraft' as viewed by many birders.

I spent many years in the British Army, when I hear the word 'fieldcraft' I equate it with the ability to travel undetected across different terrain whilst under threat from possible antagonists.

But I understand we all judge based on our own experiences.

Go placidly amid the noise and haste.
 
Exellent Den shame about lost kit but shots these really make a loss here and there worth it... which hide did you buy?
 
swag72 said:
I still believe it is a skill - Sorry that I opened a can of worms with my comment
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You are entitled to voice your views and opinion,i apreciate you saying i have a skill ,personaly my photography would need to evolve a lot more in the creativity side for me to feel fully skilled , but thats just me,i am always looking to improve ,and want to improve,if passion was classed as a skill ,then yes i have it ,Roy makes a decent point ,but his ignorant view (again Roy no insult intended ) just makes is argument a bit weak on how wildlife shots are achieved.....
 
You cannot be serious.... hot chocolate with sandwiches, noooo way
But seriously Roy any skill atttained be it painting the Last Supper a surgeon performing an operation or a photographer taking a great shot all need dedication and time to learn, the Oxford dictionary describes it as thus
Skill
the ability to do something well; expertise.
Which I would say fits in nicely with the description other posters have attributed to Den and his photography, he is an expert in his chosen field

As for the camera not being a tool of course it is, its the equipment used to perform a task just like a scalpel, a guitar or a paint brush, it may be more advanced technolgically but its still a tool

Good luck with sitting out on a river for eight days to capture your Kingfisher shot I look forward to seeing the resulting image at about the same time the chimp plays Rhapsody in Blue ha ha
 
badlywornroy said:
I have never been a 'birder' although I do love nature and all wildlife. Too many other beautiful interesting things to photograph.

I did manage to take this one with a Panasonic G1 and a 50-200mm f4-5.6 lens. Sedge warbler I believe.

i-WKMWxV2.jpg

I do think the two most important attributes to taking a shot such as your Kingfisher study are 1. money to afford suitable equipment. 2. Free time to devote to waiting for the opportunity to present itself.

Given 1 & 2 I honestly believe most competent photographers are capable of such a shot (including me)

I forget to share my views on the skill of 'fieldcraft' as viewed by many birders.

I spent many years in the British Army, when I hear the word 'fieldcraft' I equate it with the ability to travel undetected across different terrain whilst under threat from possible antagonists.

But I understand we all judge based on our own experiences.

Go placidly amid the noise and haste.
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I also spent time in the British Army ,i joined in 1978 ,what regiment were you in Roy...you should post that shot in the bird section ,not on my thread you may get more views and some decent CC
 
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badlywornroy said:
I forget to share my views on the skill of 'fieldcraft' as viewed by many birders.

I spent many years in the British Army, when I hear the word 'fieldcraft' I equate it with the ability to travel undetected across different terrain whilst under threat from possible antagonists.

But I understand we all judge based on our own experiences.
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Fieldcraft is a common term used by wildlife photographers in general, not just birders. Although the reasons and conditions can't be comparable in any way, the actual process is the same as used by the army; get where you want to be without being detected.

In the case of the military it might be to prevent being spotted by a sniper, in a photographers case it might be to prevent being spotted by a fox. I'm can't say which is trickier or more skilful, but I will say the outcome of failure is far more forgiving on the photographer. I respect and admire both for different reasons, but it's still a "great skill" in both scenarios imo.
 
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GordH said:
You cannot be serious.... hot chocolate with sandwiches, noooo way
But seriously Roy any skill atttained be it painting the Last Supper a surgeon performing an operation or a photographer taking a great shot all need dedication and time to learn, the Oxford dictionary describes it as thus
Skill
the ability to do something well; expertise.
Which I would say fits in nicely with the description other posters have attributed to Den and his photography, he is an expert in his chosen field

As for the camera not being a tool of course it is, its the equipment used to perform a task just like a scalpel, a guitar or a paint brush, it may be more advanced technolgically but its still a tool

Good luck with sitting out on a river for eight days to capture your Kingfisher shot I look forward to seeing the resulting image at about the same time the chimp plays Rhapsody in Blue ha ha
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Well put Gordon
 
badlywornroy said:
I do think the two most important attributes to taking a shot such as your Kingfisher study are 1. money to afford suitable equipment. 2. Free time to devote to waiting for the opportunity to present itself.
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I have used second hand equipment ,a used 300mm f4 and a 400mm 5.6 MF only ,i work full time and a have brought up a family of five ,i make the most of my spare time ,its called dedication Roy ..
 
Gosh - Things get very contentious in the bird section ...... note to self, don't bother them again :) A bit of a turn off if I'm honest...... is it always like this?

I only wanted to say what a nice Kingfisher image it is.
 
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swag72 said:
Gosh - Things get very contentious in the bird section ...... note to self, don't bother them again :) A bit of a turn off if I'm honest...... is it always like this?
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Dont worry Sara...as said you are entitled to your opinion ,and i fully apreciate you stopping by to view and comment on my image :)
 
" Roy makes a decent point ,but his ignorant view (again Roy no insult intended )

You just gotta love that :)

ignorant 'lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated."

Patronising 'treat with an apparent kindness which betrays a feeling of superiority"

" Gosh - Things get very contentious in the bird section ...... "

Sara, it's just a discussion between adults, enjoy ?
 
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badlywornroy said:
" Roy makes a decent point ,but his ignorant view (again Roy no insult intended )

You just gotta love that :)

ignorant 'lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated."

Patronising 'treat with an apparent kindness which betrays a feeling of superiority"

" Gosh - Things get very contentious in the bird section ...... "

Sara, it's just a discussion between adults, enjoy ?
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Shall we talk Little owls Roy ,now thats a subject that i could realy bore you to death with :) what i will say Roy is that i am fully awre that i am just a run of the mill photographer (wildlife ) who enjoys doing what i am and have been doing for years on a limited budget and time ....BTW what regiment were you in ,i was stationed near York as a mere 16 year old , were i had to do a full 12 months basic training ,that went down to IIRC to 3 months at 17
 
swag72 said:
Gosh - Things get very contentious in the bird section ...... note to self, don't bother them again :) A bit of a turn off if I'm honest...... is it always like this?

I only wanted to say what a nice Kingfisher image it is.
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Dont think this section is anything close to how it was... this is calm and they are being fairly civil to each other.... Sara just keep showing us your brilliant night photography :D
 
Tintin124 said:
Exellent Den shame about lost kit but shots these really make a loss here and there worth it... which hide did you buy?
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I have bought the one man chair hide from stealth gear in fact its my third in as many years ,the metal frame bolts are weak ,and they have all broke on me ,this time i am buying a cheaper version ,,of which i do have but the zips go first but the frames are better ,not imperessed with the stealth gear ones OK for in the garden for ocassional use but out in the field they dont hold up ,just my opinion on them
 
den said:
I have bought the one man chair hide from stealth gear in fact its my third in as many years ,the metal frame bolts are weak ,and they have all broke on me ,this time i am buying a cheaper version ,,of which i do have but the zips go first but the frames are better ,not imperessed with the stealth gear ones OK for in the garden for ocassional use but out in the field they dont hold up ,just my opinion on them
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Interesting can you mix the two? scrim from one and frame from another... sorry complete novice to this hide thing :D
 
I have done just that , I salvage some of the framework from the cheap ones on to the stealth ones when they start to brake up , in fact I have three old hides on the site for that purpose , last year when I was trying for wide angled shots I made a little jacket for the camera from some of a old hides material
 
Den have you looked at some of the fishing chairs as they are far sturdier and most have adjustable legs to accomodate uneven ground I have a couple which are light weight and comfortable but may not be as light as your now defunt Stealth Gear ones... but their probably lies the problem really light weight is usually not strong
 
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Forgot to add they also have what are called mud feet which are around 3-4 inch square/round self levelling feet which stop you sinking into soft ground with each leg adjustable they do offer a more stable and very comfortable alternative and they collapse flat for carrying usually with a strap, may be worth looking into, heres a cheap example but there are others with adjustable backs but it gives you an idea of what Im talking about

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NGT-Sessi...926751?hash=item3f632e6d9f:g:JisAAOSwubRXMHJW
 
Just Google carp chairs in ebay, Amazon or whatever, If you need any advice drop me an email, as an aside I have had maybe half a dozen different ones just upgraded because of features,weight etc the one I have at the moment actually has wheels and carries all my gear a lot easier than carrying the stuff, but I've never had one break, my brother whos bigger than me also has never had one break, the issue for you Den could be weight if you are going over long distances as for comfort the ones with fully adjustable backs are far better but you may be restricted to size due the hide you are using unless its a throw over
 
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