Messier 31 - Andromeda Galaxy

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The Andromeda Galaxy, also known as Messier 31, M31, or NGC 224, is a spiral galaxy approximately 2.5 million light-years from Earth, and the nearest major galaxy to the Milky Way. Its name stems from the area of the sky in which it appears, the constellation of Andromeda.

The 2006 observations by the Spitzer Space Telescope revealed that the Andromeda Galaxy contains approximately one trillion stars, more than twice the number of the Milky Way's estimated 200 to 400 billion stars. The Andromeda Galaxy, spanning approximately 220,000 light-years, is the largest galaxy in our Local Group, which is also home to the Triangulum Galaxy and other minor galaxies. The Andromeda Galaxy's mass is estimated to be around 1.76 times that of the Milky Way Galaxy.

The Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies are expected to collide in 4.5 billion years, merging to form a giant elliptical galaxy or a large disc galaxy.

This image is my second DSO attempt. Around 2 hours of exposure and many more hours spent processing.

Messier 31 - Andromeda Galaxy by Joel Spencer, on Flickr
 
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I can't believe no-one's commented on this yet Joel. You've captured more detail than I've managed yet (but I haven't managed 2 hours of exposure time yet either). It's not an easy image to capture, balancing the bright central core with the outer areas which are really faint. It really benefits from a wide field image like this with its two little neighbouring galaxies M32 and NGC205. Can I ask what kit you used, the exposure details and software you used for stacking - just out of interest. I know how to do it - I just need the chance to get out with my kit and get some more (a lot more) exposures.
 
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Jannyfox said:
I can't believe no-one's commented on this yet Joel. You've captured more detail than I've managed yet (but I haven't managed 2 hours of exposure time yet either). It's not an easy image to capture, balancing the bright central core with the outer areas which are really faint. It really benefits from a wide field image like this with its two little neighbouring galaxies M32 and NGC205. Can I ask what kit you used, the exposure details and software you used for stacking - just out of interest. I know how to do it - I just need the chance to get out with my kit and get some more (a lot more) exposures.
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Thanks Janny, I was imaging under relatively dark skies, I could see the Milky Way above me. You're right in that it isn't an easy image to capture or process. Exposure wise I took various 30 second, 1 minute and 1.30 subs, no flats, darks or bias frames. ISO ranged from 1600 to 3200. I then threw away any alignment issues and stacked using DSS, processed in Adobe Photoshop and then finished off in Lightroom.

I then spent a lot of today trying a different method where I calibrated the light frames first with lens correction profiles etc. and stacked using DSS, then used RNC Colour Stretch to stretch the data. Once that had finished I used PS and LR again to process the image.
 
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Second one for me, but both are very good. I think Janny might have wanted to know about scope, mount and camera, I know I do.
 
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Second shot for me too, but I think they are both superb, is it a bog standard canon you use or has the sensor been altered for long exposures?
 
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smr said:
Thanks. You're welcome.



Thanks, it is an unmodded Canon.
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Thank you, I have been seriously looking into more astro photography myself, looks like the only specialised kit needed is the star tracker, thanks for sharing your images it inspires others to have a go.
 
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MatBin said:
Nanny
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Hope that's just a typo................:eek: ;)

Yes it was all the details I was after. It's a great subject for a lens - a bit big for a lot of scopes. Second edit is the best by far - it really brings out the colour and detail. It's really made me wish I could get out and have another go at it.

Bearair said:
Second shot for me too, but I think they are both superb, is it a bog standard canon you use or has the sensor been altered for long exposures?
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The sensor mod you're refering to is, I think, removing the filter over the sensor for increased IR sensitivity, not long exposure. This galaxy group doesn't need a modded sensor to bring out its full glory. I got my shot with a bog standard Canon 550D, though for most of my astro stuff I use a 350D which has been modded. It makes a difference for some subjects, but not all. I use a fairly lightweight equatorial driven mount - the Skywatcher 3-2 GoTo. The tracker on a normal (sturdy!) tripod suits some people, others prefer a driven mount.

Joel - I've never bothered with bias frames or flats, but dark frames are worth considering. Your camera's probably not too bad but the 350D is terrible for hot pixels if I don't dark frame. It doesn't have to be a chore - they just need to be the same exposure and taken at the same ambient temperature as the lights. You should have the same number but I've never bothered. I cap the lens (or body if I've been working on a scope) and just set it dark framing while I'm packing up. Combine the frames and save the result as a 'master dark' with the exposure and temperature in the file name. You can then use that master dark for any exposures of the same length at approx the same temp (with the same camera and iso of course). I use iso 800 all the time and it works well with my cameras. Due to alignment issues I never go above 1 min subs.
I gave up using DSS a while ago as I just couldn't get anything decent out of it, and some of my subs it's refused to integrate at all. If you get into astro PixInsight is worth considering. It costs, but it's a licence-for-life, use on multiple computers. It's a bit of a learning curve (when it first appeared it was Linux only - says it all!) but there is a very good book on it, and youtube vids if you can learn that way (I can't). It will do everything, start to finish, but I normally go so far in PI then do the last tweeks in PaintShop Pro.
 
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Jannyfox said:
Hope that's just a typo................:eek: ;)

Yes it was all the details I was after. It's a great subject for a lens - a bit big for a lot of scopes. Second edit is the best by far - it really brings out the colour and detail. It's really made me wish I could get out and have another go at it.



The sensor mod you're refering to is, I think, removing the filter over the sensor for increased IR sensitivity, not long exposure. This galaxy group doesn't need a modded sensor to bring out its full glory. I got my shot with a bog standard Canon 550D, though for most of my astro stuff I use a 350D which has been modded. It makes a difference for some subjects, but not all. I use a fairly lightweight equatorial driven mount - the Skywatcher 3-2 GoTo. The tracker on a normal (sturdy!) tripod suits some people, others prefer a driven mount.

Joel - I've never bothered with bias frames or flats, but dark frames are worth considering. Your camera's probably not too bad but the 350D is terrible for hot pixels if I don't dark frame. It doesn't have to be a chore - they just need to be the same exposure and taken at the same ambient temperature as the lights. You should have the same number but I've never bothered. I cap the lens (or body if I've been working on a scope) and just set it dark framing while I'm packing up. Combine the frames and save the result as a 'master dark' with the exposure and temperature in the file name. You can then use that master dark for any exposures of the same length at approx the same temp (with the same camera and iso of course). I use iso 800 all the time and it works well with my cameras. Due to alignment issues I never go above 1 min subs.
I gave up using DSS a while ago as I just couldn't get anything decent out of it, and some of my subs it's refused to integrate at all. If you get into astro PixInsight is worth considering. It costs, but it's a licence-for-life, use on multiple computers. It's a bit of a learning curve (when it first appeared it was Linux only - says it all!) but there is a very good book on it, and youtube vids if you can learn that way (I can't). It will do everything, start to finish, but I normally go so far in PI then do the last tweeks in PaintShop Pro.
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Thank you Jan, for all the information, yes the mod was for IR sensitivity, I have been looking at the cameras on the Cheap Astrophotography site.
 
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Jannyfox said:
Hope that's just a typo................:eek: ;)

Yes it was all the details I was after. It's a great subject for a lens - a bit big for a lot of scopes. Second edit is the best by far - it really brings out the colour and detail. It's really made me wish I could get out and have another go at it.



The sensor mod you're refering to is, I think, removing the filter over the sensor for increased IR sensitivity, not long exposure. This galaxy group doesn't need a modded sensor to bring out its full glory. I got my shot with a bog standard Canon 550D, though for most of my astro stuff I use a 350D which has been modded. It makes a difference for some subjects, but not all. I use a fairly lightweight equatorial driven mount - the Skywatcher 3-2 GoTo. The tracker on a normal (sturdy!) tripod suits some people, others prefer a driven mount.

Joel - I've never bothered with bias frames or flats, but dark frames are worth considering. Your camera's probably not too bad but the 350D is terrible for hot pixels if I don't dark frame. It doesn't have to be a chore - they just need to be the same exposure and taken at the same ambient temperature as the lights. You should have the same number but I've never bothered. I cap the lens (or body if I've been working on a scope) and just set it dark framing while I'm packing up. Combine the frames and save the result as a 'master dark' with the exposure and temperature in the file name. You can then use that master dark for any exposures of the same length at approx the same temp (with the same camera and iso of course). I use iso 800 all the time and it works well with my cameras. Due to alignment issues I never go above 1 min subs.
I gave up using DSS a while ago as I just couldn't get anything decent out of it, and some of my subs it's refused to integrate at all. If you get into astro PixInsight is worth considering. It costs, but it's a licence-for-life, use on multiple computers. It's a bit of a learning curve (when it first appeared it was Linux only - says it all!) but there is a very good book on it, and youtube vids if you can learn that way (I can't). It will do everything, start to finish, but I normally go so far in PI then do the last tweeks in PaintShop Pro.
Click to expand...

Thanks Janny, the reason why I chose not to use dark frames is reasoned here:

"More and more newer cameras have improved sensors with lower dark current, lower pattern noise (e.g.banding) and on-sensor dark current suppression, allowing for beautiful long exposures in low light conditions without the need for long exposure dark frame subtraction in the camera or post processing subtracting dark frames. This speeds image acquisition in the field and simplifies post processing." http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/dark-current-suppression-technology/
 
smr said:
Thanks Janny, the reason why I chose not to use dark frames is reasoned here:

"More and more newer cameras have improved sensors with lower dark current, lower pattern noise (e.g.banding) and on-sensor dark current suppression, allowing for beautiful long exposures in low light conditions without the need for long exposure dark frame subtraction in the camera or post processing subtracting dark frames. This speeds image acquisition in the field and simplifies post processing." http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/dark-current-suppression-technology/
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Well, I learn something new every day. I asked my financial director if I could use that to justify getting and modding a brand new camera for astro and got told 'no - the 350D will live for ever' ;)
My 550D suffers badly from Canon banding, which PixInsight will remove completely. The 350D doesn't get it at all.
 
Thats a cracking shot, I admire your perseverance. We're blessed with a strong contingent of astro photographers on here.
 
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jbw said:
Great Astro photography work
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Thanks James.

Jannyfox said:
Well, I learn something new every day. I asked my financial director if I could use that to justify getting and modding a brand new camera for astro and got told 'no - the 350D will live for ever' ;)
My 550D suffers badly from Canon banding, which PixInsight will remove completely. The 350D doesn't get it at all.
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Strange how a more recent model suffers from it and the 350 doesn't? I'm sure I read on Roger Clarke's website that IR modification isn't needed on more recent sensors too which would be great for my Canon 80D, although it is my only Camera and I don't like the idea of having to clip in other filters light light pollution ones.

jakeblu said:
Thats a cracking shot, I admire your perseverance. We're blessed with a strong contingent of astro photographers on here.
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Thanks Steve. It is a specialized hobby and perseverance is a key attribute. This is my second image since February, although I have been busy moving house since, running a business etc. I could have got out more but I had a couple of nights where I tried setting up and had totally skewed my alignment with Polaris, blaming the gear and thinking it was the reason my tracking wasn't working, it isn't my gear, it was user error. I'm very glad I took it my gear with me on Holiday though, despite this, and did everything very methodically in setting up for the imaging session. I was exuberant when I saw M31 on the back of my Camera with the stars staying as they were!
 
smr said:
I don't like the idea of having to clip in other filters light light pollution ones.
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I know what you mean. We had one of the clip in filters before a friend of ours did the mod for us but it's not something you want to be taking in and out. They are very fiddly and easy to put your sticky fingerprints all over. Also some lenses you can't use with the filter in. Is it EFS lenses come further back into the body than EF lenses? I don't know without going and taking the EFS lens off my camera and getting an EF out. When we had the filter in I didn't have any EF lenses and I know I couldn't use the ones I did have, so the camera was only used on a scope.
 
Jannyfox said:
I know what you mean. We had one of the clip in filters before a friend of ours did the mod for us but it's not something you want to be taking in and out. They are very fiddly and easy to put your sticky fingerprints all over. Also some lenses you can't use with the filter in. Is it EFS lenses come further back into the body than EF lenses? I don't know without going and taking the EFS lens off my camera and getting an EF out. When we had the filter in I didn't have any EF lenses and I know I couldn't use the ones I did have, so the camera was only used on a scope.
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Yes I think EFS lenses do. As I use my 80D for other photography I think before getting clip in filters etc. I'd probably look at a second hand 700D or something.
 
Wonderful image, thanks for sharing (y)
 
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Thank you very much guys. I am pleased with it for my second image and I'm impressed by the Star Adventurer mount too, a great tracker. The only problem I have is that it doesn't have Go-to functionality and although I live in a village where LP isn't too bad of a problem it's by no means a dark sky site, which is one of the reasons why it would make finding DSOs difficult - for that reason I will be upgrading to a Go-to mount soon, and probably keeping the SA for portability reasons and when I know the night sky better it should be easier to find objects.

I'm also looking into autoguiding and a scope. I have a Sigma 150-600 which would be ideal in terms of focal length but I can't find many images taken with this lens which makes me wonder if I would indeed be better off with a prime 400mm or a scope.
 
smr said:
I have a Sigma 150-600 which would be ideal in terms of focal length but I can't find many images taken with this lens which makes me wonder if I would indeed be better off with a prime 400mm or a scope.
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I use the Sigma 150-600 as I don't have a photography scope, only one suitable for visual observing. If you go on my Flickr you'll find some images taken with it. Look in the Astronomy album. For comparison, there're also some taken with a 200mm reflector. It's not my scope, obviously, and isn't guided, only driven, so I never use exposures of more than 60 sec. I have my own reason for not having a photography scope at home, but if astrophotography is something you're really interested a scope is the way to go. The size you use will determine the size of object it's best suited to, so work that out before you shell out money. I'd suggest starting without the autoguiding and moving onto it when you're used to the system. My partner was using a 250mm scope with autoguiding but has now moved to a 200mm Richie-Crechien (that's probably spelt wrong), both autoguided. He, however, uses a CCD camera most of the time so the field of view is tiny compared to a dSLR, though he does do some dSLR stuff as well. We share an old Canon 350D between us but I use it most. You will be opening a whole new can of worms in terms of complexity, frustration and money, but the end results are worth it. That is if you have the patience to stick at it and iron out the problems you will have. I haven't, that's just one reason why it's not for me. Find him on Flickr at GordonWRT, but as well as getting the RC he's also improved his mount with some mods, and he hasn't managed to use the new setup in anger yet.
 
WOW! When I see astro photography like this, something I will never see in person a little bit of wee comes out.

cracking shot!
 
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