Milky Way, why do you elude me?!

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Dave
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Milky Way photos is something I have wanted to do for a long time, but opportunities are lacking and living just 20 miles outside London I have a lot of light pollution to contend with.
Last weekend I was camping out in Sussex in High Weald, the skies were clear so I thought I would give it a go so headed out with my Fuji X-T3 and Samyang 12mm and using photopills augmented reality to locate galactic centre.

This one was taken from the middle of the dam at Bewl water. No sign of the milky way at all.
Image-001.jpg
ISO 1000 / f2.0 / 15s


And this one the same night in a random field. If I squint I can just about make it out, but its not exactly what I was hoping for.
Image-002.jpg
ISO 3200 / f2.0 / 15s


What am I doing wrong? Is it something up with my settings? I tried longer exposures and higher iso but that just resulted in an overall brighter image but no greater definition of GC.
Maybe it is still too much light pollution in this area? Is it something that can only really be achieved in properly dark skies?
 
ISO 1000 in the first shot is way too low, shot 2 is getting there. What date did you do that and what time?

I don't know the area but light pollution is a problem for astro photography, especially the milky way and not just artificial light but the moon too.
 
Come over to the alps :) there are many more dark places and it is quite clearly visible to the naked eye, however no to the degree you see in the photos they are all enhanced of course. You can try increasing your ISO 2 or 3 stops and a light pollution filter.
 
I spent a weekend fishing in Bewl water a few weeks ago and whilst it’s far from urban it’s a pretty ‘built’ up area around it and will be affected by light pollution. There are plenty of dark sky parks in the uk. One of those would be my starting point.

I was in the Elan Valley a few months back which is a designated Dark Sky park and I drove through it one evening and didn’t pass another car for 12 miles! Now that was dark!
 
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Could you clearly see the Milky Way with the naked eye? If not I don't think you are going to be able to photograph it. Looking at the second shot there seems to be some cloud bottom left and my guess would be that if there is cloud there then there is haze everywhere which is reducing contrast to the point where the Milky Way is indistinct. I've had most success with milky way shots on freezing nights which seems to really reduce the haze. IIRC my shots are usually around ISO 3200, 20 seconds f2.8, the exposure time being determined by the 500 rule and then the other settings adjusted to get the correct exposure.
 
ISO 1000 in the first shot is way too low, shot 2 is getting there. What date did you do that and what time?

I don't know the area but light pollution is a problem for astro photography, especially the milky way and not just artificial light but the moon too.
These were shot on 30th May at about 23:30 with no moon in the sky.


Come over to the alps :) there are many more dark places and it is quite clearly visible to the naked eye, however no to the degree you see in the photos they are all enhanced of course. You can try increasing your ISO 2 or 3 stops and a light pollution filter.
I would love to! My opportunites to get anywhere with a properly dark sky are few and far between, I often have the family in tow so getting out at night is harder and then it needs to coincide with no cloud/moon. I think it is the rarity of these events coming together that makes it something I want to do. Not heard of a light pollution filter before, off for a google....!

I spent a weekend fishing in Bewl water a few weeks ago and whilst it’s far from urban it’s a pretty ‘built’ up area around it and will be affected by light pollution. There are plenty of dark sky parks in the uk. One of those would be my starting point.

I was in the Elan Valley a few months back which is a designated Dark Sky park and I drove through it one evening and didn’t pass another car for 12 miles! Now that was dark!
I was in Norfolk in March for a weekend and was all set to head out to the dark sy park there, but unfortunately it was a overcast.


Could you clearly see the Milky Way with the naked eye? If not I don't think you are going to be able to photograph it. Looking at the second shot there seems to be some cloud bottom left and my guess would be that if there is cloud there then there is haze everywhere which is reducing contrast to the point where the Milky Way is indistinct. I've had most success with milky way shots on freezing nights which seems to really reduce the haze. IIRC my shots are usually around ISO 3200, 20 seconds f2.8, the exposure time being determined by the 500 rule and then the other settings adjusted to get the correct exposure.
No, I couldn't see it with the naked eye, but I never have seen it so wasn't sure if it was ever possible to do so or if it relied on a bit of digital manipulation and post processing to bring it out. Thank you for the suggestions.
 
Just to give you an idea, on a clear night I can see it from my back garden and to get a reasonable photo I find that it has to be pretty obvious in the sky and even then I have to go somewhere even darker.
 
Just to give you an idea, on a clear night I can see it from my back garden and to get a reasonable photo I find that it has to be pretty obvious in the sky and even then I have to go somewhere even darker.
I see, thank you. I seems I have been trying to photograph ghosts, no idea if there is one there but gave it a go anyway. :LOL:
 
You're not using that lens to its fullest for astro.

Using the 500's rule you can take a 27 second exposure on that lens (500 / 18mm EFL = 27.777 seconds).

You need to get out into real dark sky territory too.

You've also found out you need to up the ISO.

I'd try ISO 6400 next time at 27 seconds in a dark sky site.

It will be a noisy image but you'll see the MW and once you have it'll spur you on to try different settings.

I've caught it on Micro 4/3 so you should be able to do it no problem on the XT3.

Keep at it
 
An interesting thread, I too have been having exactly the same problem and I am in Gosport, Hants. The dog got me up at 2AM the other night and the sky was clear so I thought I would have a go at getting a shot of the milky way from the garden. Photo pills showed me where it should be and I tried a range of exposures but with no success. I was not expecting much as there is light pollution around me but did hope to get something. It seems from this thread that I am doing nothing wrong just in the wrong place. I will find some dark skys and try again
 
At 23:30pm you might be a little too early for the MW to rise?! Not sure though.

Agree with the above about the 500 rule. I think if you'd had a higher ISO on the second it may be a little clearer.
 
IIRC the best of the milky way isn't visible from our side of the world.
When the galactic core is above the horizon so is the sun. I think a trip to a desert in the USA is called for but I'm not sure my wife will agree...
 
An interesting thread, I too have been having exactly the same problem and I am in Gosport, Hants. The dog got me up at 2AM the other night and the sky was clear so I thought I would have a go at getting a shot of the milky way from the garden. Photo pills showed me where it should be and I tried a range of exposures but with no success. I was not expecting much as there is light pollution around me but did hope to get something. It seems from this thread that I am doing nothing wrong just in the wrong place. I will find some dark skys and try again

I think maybe wrong place and/or wrong time. I'm not far from you on the IOW - I just went through some pics and managed this one from my garden in early December a few years ago. If I remember rightly - around 11pm. I agree that if you can't see it, you're probably not going to manage a photo of it. I will have to have a look on the next clear night and see if I can see it.

Not a brilliant photo and an odd composition - I was trying to show my builder that you can see the Milky Way - he grew up on the island and had never seen it. I did a bit of light painting to show him his building work.
IMG_3709.jpg
 
Photographing the milkyway can be tricky but more so from the point of view of being in the right place at the right time with the right conditions. The camera and lens aspect is pretty straightforward but pulling it all together is challenging but if it were easy then it would be boring.
Also, the post-processing is definitely required if you want to get the milkyway to "pop".
A couple of links below should help. I found the first of these links to be a great use when I was first interested in this subject.....

https://www.lonelyspeck.com/how-to-make-an-amazing-photo-of-the-milky-way-galaxy/

https://www.photopills.com/articles/how-plan-milky-way-using-augmented-reality
 
Up here in Cambridgeshire not far from London we have some good dark skies areas.
The RSPB reserve at the rear of my house is pretty free of light pollution and the Milky Way can be quite visible.
Never been out to photograph it, but this thread has inspired me to make the effort.
Ten miles up the road on the edge of the Great Fen there is an official dark sky milky way class site.
Will try over the local place first and see how it goes, wonder if a m4/3 12-40mm f2.8 will do the job
 
500 rule gives you too much exposure time.

This was our first attempt in north Somerset (bortle 4 I think) & it wasn't clearly visible to the naked eye. The camera will pick up much more than your eyes will! Stellarium is always used for location/direction/date/time. You also need to think the direction you are pointing into rather than the location you are stood for light pollution.

F/4, 15 seconds, ISO 3200, 21mm Full Frame. Stacked images.


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by Lee, on Flickr

My boy has the Samyang 12/2 on an A6000 & get's on fine with it.
 
Up here in Cambridgeshire not far from London we have some good dark skies areas.
The RSPB reserve at the rear of my house is pretty free of light pollution and the Milky Way can be quite visible.
Never been out to photograph it, but this thread has inspired me to make the effort.
Ten miles up the road on the edge of the Great Fen there is an official dark sky milky way class site.
Will try over the local place first and see how it goes, wonder if a m4/3 12-40mm f2.8 will do the job


Yes Rich it will.

I used a f3.5 lens for the MW shot above albeit a Samyang fisheye.

You'll be fine
 
Yes Rich it will.

I used a f3.5 lens for the MW shot above albeit a Samyang fisheye.

You'll be fine

Thanks Terry, only other faster lens I have is a 25mm f/1.4, nowhere near wide enough.
 
One of the best places to go in the Sussexs Downs for the Milky Way is Iping Common. I got some ok shots here with a D3400 and Sigma 17-50 f2.8.

You can see them here: https://philmaddocks.com/gallery/ (9th photo)
Cheers Phil, might have to venture here as it's only 30 mins from my house! Only trouble being I don't have an ultra wide lens really. Quickest lenses are 50 and 85mm both 1.8. Kit lens is, well a kit lens :confused:
 
Cheers Phil, might have to venture here as it's only 30 mins from my house! Only trouble being I don't have an ultra wide lens really. Quickest lenses are 50 and 85mm both 1.8. Kit lens is, well a kit lens :confused:

At 28mm you can get close to 20 seconds exposure time before you begin to see star trailing (Rule of 500 applied). with the 50mm this drops to 10 seconds, and the 85 6 seconds. If I was you, I'd use the 28mm at f3.5, 20 seconds, and then adjust the ISO to where you need it to be to get the milky way (I'd suggest starting at 3200 and moving to 6400 if needed). You have full frame so better low light performance, and if need be, you could stack multiple exposures using something like deepskystacker to reduce noise (free program btw).

My 17-50 is essentially a 24-70 on a full frame as I was using a crop albeit f2.8 instead of 3.5 which is roughly 2/3 of a stop difference.
 
so many wonderful shots on this thread, as much as i love summer i cant wait for the fully dark nights back!
 
I tried local Sunday night. Not too great. Fog was coming in over the lake. So I went back home, set the alarm for 4:45, grabbed about 4 hours sleep & got up & out to the woodland for a very foggy early morning!!
 
so many wonderful shots on this thread, as much as i love summer i cant wait for the fully dark nights back!

The only issue with the fully dark winter nights is the Milky Way (the core at least) begins to fall below the horizon and doesn't come into view. Typically April-August are the best times in the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm off to Australia for 3 weeks in November and am hoping to catch it on the other side of the world
 
^^^ Lots of stars visible there Pete!! ^^^ I do like the silhouettes too.

I tried local Sunday night. Not too great. Fog was coming in over the lake. So I went back home, set the alarm for 4:45, grabbed about 4 hours sleep & got up & out to the woodland for a very foggy early morning!!

This was one of the "ruined" shots from last bank holiday weekend. The fog has grown on me now & I think it adds to the image. I wish now I took more than one shot at this composition to stack them!!


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by Lee, on Flickr
 
I'm still waiting for a clear night, I tried one good night but it was blowing a gale at my spot on the coast. I didn't bother setting up.
 
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