Critique Miss Deadly Red in black

PaulButler

PaulButler

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This is another from my recent session in the studio with Nicky aka MissDeadlyRed.

This was a 3 light setup. Key was camera centre, there is a honeycombed strip box camera right and a honeycombed reflector used on the background (it may have been a small beauty dish - I did try both).

As always all constructive views are much appreciated.

View attachment 96281
 
Very nice image.

As far as the lighting goes, the only light I really see is the key. That's not good or bad, but it basically means that the setup was probably overly complex... i.e. you probably could have started w/ a grey BG exposure and added less key light.
IMO, the black dress is a bit "heavy," I think just a bit of fill there would help. I'm thinking a reflector from below which would also (hopefully) have thrown just a bit more light in her eye which feels a bit buried in the corner. I would probably remove the hair along the lower rt edge.
 
Thanks Steven for the feedback. I was after quite a moody feel and did play around with the lighting, adding in extra as I felt necessary - I could see the difference when shooting, but maybe simpler could have been better, not sure. Agree about the hair but I will have to improve my PS skills somewhat which I'm trying to do.
 
It's definitely a cool pic, nicely processed too.

There's something not quite working for my but I'm having trouble putting my finger on it. I think @sk66 is right when he says the eye is a bit lost in the corner - it's hard to know whether the point of focus is the eye or the ear.

Maybe you've got a one of a slightly different pose which works better? You could try to process this one but I think it would be difficult to reduce the brightness and the contrast of the ear without altering the colours. Maybe convert to b&w & burn the ear & background down a bit?

.. but as before, that's all small stuff - if you like it then leave it ..
 
Thanks again Simon, always appreciated.

This is one of my favourite images from the session. I guess having a hidden eye isn't to everyone's taste which I understand. The point of focus is the eye I think ;)
MDR_Eye.jpg

As for processing in B&W ... I'm even worse at that!
 
I really like that one, personally I would prefer the crop more towards a headshot maybe loose upto a 1/3rd from the bottom only as Steve says the dress is a bit heavy.

It's nit picking, it's a shame that the lipstick isn't covering all the bottom lip.
 
Most of it was quite simple.
I fixed the "weight" issue and lower hair with a crop. As luck would have it, this placed her eye right on the upper 1/3. This also moved her ear toward the perimeter and more out of focus (attention, which is what Simon was referring to).

I used some curves layers to bring out her eye and for a little dodge/burn. I painted over some of the flyaway hair. The only slightly advanced part was using liquify on her hair near the collar.

Edit: updated image with frequency edit and selective sharpening.

View attachment 96288
 
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Thanks Steven. Liquify slightly advanced? I've no hope ;) I did look at a crop similar but discarded it, whilst I'm sure many would prefer it, it lost the mood I was after. I do have other head shots though :) Appreciate the step by step too, it is a learning process.
 
Michael Batten said:
I really like that one, personally I would prefer the crop more towards a headshot maybe loose upto a 1/3rd from the bottom only as Steve says the dress is a bit heavy.

It's nit picking, it's a shame that the lipstick isn't covering all the bottom lip.
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Many thanks for taking the time to comment, much appreciated.

Steven @sk66 has posted one above, (a crop that is) is that what you mean? The crop loses the mood for me - of course, it could be that I'm too close to this to be objective.

The lipstick hadn't really bothered me to be honest :) I had noticed it though.
 
PaulButler said:
Many thanks for taking the time to comment, much appreciated.

Steven @sk66 has posted one above, (a crop that is) is that what you mean? The crop loses the mood for me - of course, it could be that I'm too close to this to be objective.

The lipstick hadn't really bothered me to be honest :) I had noticed it though.
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That's exactly the crop I would prefer but it's all personal opinion in the end :).
 
PaulButler said:
it lost the mood I was after
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Mood wise I think I would prefer it on a dark BG. And then your rim light (gridded strip) would have been more important and the BG light could have been used as a hair light on the other side (to provide BG separation).
I think that "darker/mysterious" feel is probably what you wanted, and it's why cropping out so much of the black dress negatively impacts the feel for you.

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It's a great image, there's much to like about it for sure. I was going to ask what you wanted from the gridded strip box to the right, as I too couldn't determine any real effect from it. The trailing eye did look a little half committed either way and so prefer the darkened version where it's lost in Steven's edit above. I must say that I do like the contrast of a red head on dark background, just looks right and that strip box could have provided a touch of rim from behind. But that's all splitting hairs, it's still a strong image nonetheless.
 
Livin The Dream said:
It's a great image, there's much to like about it for sure. I was going to ask what you wanted from the gridded strip box to the right, as I too couldn't determine any real effect from it. The trailing eye did look a little half committed either way and so prefer the darkened version where it's lost in Steven's edit above. I must say that I do like the contrast of a red head on dark background, just looks right and that strip box could have provided a touch of rim from behind. But that's all splitting hairs, it's still a strong image nonetheless.
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Thanks Kris, much appreciated. Without splitting hairs as you call it I won't progress so keep splitting them :)
 
Stunning shot. I prefer your original crop but I would have touched out the hair beside her forearm. I could easily see it hung in a salon.

For me the skin looks a bit over done, especially round the nose looks to go a bit soft. Have you used Frequency seperation to retouch the face?

Might just be me not getting makeup but I find the back of the bottom lip not being completely covered distracting I would personally clean up the bottom lip so it was all the same colour. If I was really fussy, the arm isn't quite retouched to the same style/standard as the face.
 
CraigDHD said:
Stunning shot. I prefer your original crop but I would have touched out the hair beside her forearm. I could easily see it hung in a salon.

For me the skin looks a bit over done, especially round the nose looks to go a bit soft. Have you used Frequency seperation to retouch the face?

Might just be me not getting makeup but I find the back of the bottom lip not being completely covered distracting I would personally clean up the bottom lip so it was all the same colour. If I was really fussy, the arm isn't quite retouched to the same style/standard as the face.
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Hi Craig, thank you for the compliment and the feedback. I have used Frequency Separation to retouch, I am still trying to develop the necessary skills and judgement in that area. The lipstick seems to be something that either bothers folk or not, I can understand why it does though. I did retouch the arm and hand too, though probably with a lighter touch.
 
PaulButler said:
Hi Craig, thank you for the compliment and the feedback. I have used Frequency Separation to retouch, I am still trying to develop the necessary skills and judgement in that area. The lipstick seems to be something that either bothers folk or not, I can understand why it does though. I did retouch the arm and hand too, though probably with a lighter touch.
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Thought it would be that you can see it particularly round the nose as the blurring has changed the density of the shadow and softened the edge of the nostril. Also around the cheek it's got that texture over colour rather than skin look. It's a good tool for some jobs but doing large areas with it gives a recognisable look. Masking some of it back off especially over edges usually helps it look more real imo.

If you wanted to even out the lip this type of technique can be really good for matching colours quickly.

It's a higher level retouch from being an amazing image. Some other great shots from this set in your flikr feed too.
 
Thanks again Craig, I've bookmarked the vid and will watch it later. It's a fast learning curve for me just now - but it's great though :)
 
CraigDHD said:
Thought it would be that you can see it particularly round the nose as the blurring has changed the density of the shadow and softened the edge of the nostril. Also around the cheek it's got that texture over colour rather than skin look. It's a good tool for some jobs but doing large areas with it gives a recognisable look. Masking some of it back off especially over edges usually helps it look more real imo.
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I don't really understand this... before editing, the two frequency separation layers should look exactly the same as the original image.
 
sk66 said:
I don't really understand this... before editing, the two frequency separation layers should look exactly the same as the original image.
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Before editing it should, it doesn't always depending how it has been set up but it should. After editing though particularly when people go in with the lasso and gaussian blur method on the low frequency layer to smooth transitions it flattens out features as it blurs highlights into shadow which is particularly prominent around areas like nostrils, chin, ears etc where you have quick falloff from from highlight to shadow forming edges. People starting off tend to select too large an area at a time and use too high a blur rate which makes the underlying tones too smooth also when using a feathered selection close to edges it can to bleed over lifting the shadows in these areas. If using frequency separation I find it can help to use multiple layers between high and low using blend modes to target specific issues such as colour or luminocity rather trying to fix it all on the low opacity layer and a mask on the group to blend back in the original image where needed can also help.
 
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sk66 said:
I don't really understand this... before editing, the two frequency separation layers should look exactly the same as the original image.
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I think that what Craig means is that if you (well me) edit an area on the smoothing layer and choose too big an area it has the effect of softening edges and reducing shadows - I have noticed this effect during editing - I may not be explaining myself very well either.
 
Like the pose and hair shape down the side of the face, the expression is good too.
But of me the lightest part of the image on my monitor is the ear, which is where my eyes end up. The highlight on the ear jewelry have highlight which also take the eye.
Not sure that if that is what you had intented, but that is what I am seeing.
Might be worth and look at in a future edit
.
 
CraigDHD said:
Before editing it should, it doesn't always depending how it has been set up but it should. After editing though particularly when people go in with the lasso and gaussian blur method on the low frequency layer to smooth transitions it flattens out features as it blurs blurs highlights into shadow which is particularly prominent around areas like nostrils, chin, ears etc where you have quick falloff from from highlight to shadow forming edges. People starting off tend to select too large an area at a time and use too high a blur rate which makes the underlying tones too smooth also when using a feathered selection close to edges it can to bleed over lifting the shadows in these areas. If using frequency separation I find it can help to use multiple layers between high and low using blend modes to target specific issues such as colour or luminocity rather trying to fix it all on the low opacity layer and a mask on the group to blend back in the original image where needed can also help.
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Exactly.. folk tend to use FS as a quick treatment for a whole image rather than analysing the issues and tackling them individually. Simply further blurring the low frequency layer isn't always the right thing to do. And in fact different areas might need different amounts of blur to create the low & high frequency layers in the first place.
 
SPR Photos said:
But of me the lightest part of the image on my monitor is the ear, which is where my eyes end up. The highlight on the ear jewelry have highlight which also take the eye.
.
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This.
In the original crop it's not so bad, but in the square crop the ear and eye are fighting for attention. If the ear didn't have any jewelry it wouldn't be so bad, or if they ear was covered by hair. The other option would have been to see if the model's other ear also had jewelry, if it didn't, then you could have shot her other side.
Apart from that, it's a great shot.
 
SPR Photos said:
Like the pose and hair shape down the side of the face, the expression is good too.
But of me the lightest part of the image on my monitor is the ear, which is where my eyes end up. The highlight on the ear jewelry have highlight which also take the eye.
Not sure that if that is what you had intented, but that is what I am seeing.
Might be worth and look at in a future edit
.
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ABTog said:
This.
In the original crop it's not so bad, but in the square crop the ear and eye are fighting for attention. If the ear didn't have any jewelry it wouldn't be so bad, or if they ear was covered by hair. The other option would have been to see if the model's other ear also had jewelry, if it didn't, then you could have shot her other side.
Apart from that, it's a great shot.
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Thanks gents, comments much appreciated. I may look to tone down the ear a bit. I like the jewellery on show though :)
 
juggler said:
Exactly.. folk tend to use FS as a quick treatment for a whole image rather than analysing the issues and tackling them individually. Simply further blurring the low frequency layer isn't always the right thing to do. And in fact different areas might need different amounts of blur to create the low & high frequency layers in the first place.
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Yep, guilty as charged :( but am trying to improve.
 
CraigDHD said:
After editing though particularly when people go in with the lasso and gaussian blur method on the low frequency layer to smooth transitions it flattens out features as it blurs highlights into shadow which is particularly prominent around areas like nostrils, chin, ears etc where you have quick falloff from from highlight to shadow forming edges.
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I see... I had to purposely try to cause it to get that effect. I seldom edit the two layers directly, at least not heavily... it's much easier to refine using additional layers. But still, with anything I've edited heavily I frequently have to go back days later with fresh eyes to get it right.
 
PaulButler said:
Yep, guilty as charged :( but am trying to improve.
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Tricky, isn't it?

I know what I can usually achieve, and I know I'm never going to be a high end beauty photography retoucher. I don't have the time and patience for one thing - and in fact I've just had cause to pay a retoucher for some work to a standard I'd never achieve in a month of Sundays.

That recent realisation has fed back into what and how I shoot.
 
juggler said:
Tricky, isn't it?

I know what I can usually achieve, and I know I'm never going to be a high end beauty photography retoucher. I don't have the time and patience for one thing - and in fact I've just had cause to pay a retoucher for some work to a standard I'd never achieve in a month of Sundays.

That recent realisation has fed back into what and how I shoot.
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Yes, it is tricky. Not sure how good I can become or how far I'm prepared to try and become good. The thought of paying a retoucher has crossed my mind, but at the moment I think I need to develop at least a proficient skill set.
 
PaulButler said:
Yes, it is tricky. Not sure how good I can become or how far I'm prepared to try and become good. The thought of paying a retoucher has crossed my mind, but at the moment I think I need to develop at least a proficient skill set.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm still trying to improve and I don't think I'd pay unless there was a commercial need to - not that I often shoot for cash. I've just got a better idea of my own abilities now.
 
nice looking model and pose but a few bits need looked at to improve imho
hidden eye , bottom lip red/pink , overdone make up , mediteranian hair on forearms some may like it , dress a bit heavy . head hair on right of forearm
 
holty said:
nice looking model and pose but a few bits need looked at to improve imho
hidden eye , bottom lip red/pink , overdone make up , mediteranian hair on forearms some may like it , dress a bit heavy . head hair on right of forearm
Click to expand...
Thanks for commenting, it is appreciated.
 
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