Moths galore

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Emma
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I had a real treat this morning. We camped at a friend's house and he set his moth trap overnight. There were such a variety of creatures there in the morning, although with the warm weather it was tricky photographing them before they warmed up and flew away, especially as the d3200 doesn't cope well with lower light conditions. Great fun though, and I'm pretty happy with the first two shots (I just hope the black and white points are close to ok after all thhe recent help I've had!) My one query is the white balance on the last two shots. I'm not certain if they were the same type of moth and they were shot on different coloured woods, but should the temperature should look so different? I've tried using the dropper tool in LR, but I'm not sure if I've been selecting a neutral shade.

moth 1.jpg

moth2.jpg

moth3.jpg

moth4.jpg
 



The first two are very cool (#1 is my pick!)

The last two… not sure but these are hard
cookies. May I suggest…



moth3pp.jpg


moth4pp.jpg


 
these edits perhaps feels a little heavy/contrasty for me now


Absolutely legitimate! I did not see the scenes
like you did and those are coldly technical. It
is only the info in a JPG you can do better with
the RAW! :)
 
I think the first two are terrific Emma. Lovely colours and detail in both, and a super composition in the first.

I'm not certain if they were the same type of moth and they were shot on different coloured woods, but should the temperature should look so different? I've tried using the dropper tool in LR, but I'm not sure if I've been selecting a neutral shade.

Looking at them I immediately thought that #3 had a magenta tint and #4 had a (bit more difficult to spot, for me at least) green tint. This made me think of Tint, which runs on a Green to Magenta axis. So in Lightroom I moved the Tint towards Green for #3 and towards Magenta for #4. This is what I got. (I have done a couple of other minor things.)


NOT MY IMAGE - Emja moth 3 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


NOT MY IMAGE - Emja moth 4 LR
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr
 
I think the first two are terrific Emma. Lovely colours and detail in both, and a super composition in the first.



Looking at them I immediately thought that #3 had a magenta tint and #4 had a (bit more difficult to spot, for me at least) green tint. This made me think of Tint, which runs on a Green to Magenta axis. So in Lightroom I moved the Tint towards Green for #3 and towards Magenta for #4. This is what I got. (I have done a couple of other minor things.)
NOT MY IMAGE - Emja moth 4 LR by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

Those are so much better Nick - you got the colours exactly right I think. It's my biggest bug bear at the moment that I often don't seem to get the colours quite right and spend a lot of time second guessing myself. I wonder what caused such variation - they were shot within half an hour and a few inches of each other for the last three shots, with just aperture changes. Out of interest what other tweaks did you make?
 
Those are so much better Nick - you got the colours exactly right I think.

He he. Pure happenstance, because of course I had no idea what the colours were, and all I did was to try and make them roughly the same. (I think there may still be a hint of a green cast in #4, but I'm really not sure about that.)

It's my biggest bug bear at the moment that I often don't seem to get the colours quite right and spend a lot of time second guessing myself.

Have you ever tried using a grey card? That is what I do (when I remember) when shooting in natural light (flowers mainly - I use flash almost all the time for insects and spiders, except for "sunny day insects" like dragonflies and butterflies - not that I have photographed any of either for a while now. :()

There are two ways of using a grey card. You can use one to set the camera white balance, but that seems a bit convoluted and time-consuming to me, and it needs a fair sized card too I think. I do it the other way, which is to take a shot of the grey card and use that to set the white balance in post processing. You need to use a photographic grey card to be sure of having a truly neutral colour.

I wonder what caused such variation - they were shot within half an hour and a few inches of each other for the last three shots, with just aperture changes.

Don't know. The way cameras decide on the white balance is a mystery to me. By the way, forgive me if you've already mentioned this, but do you shoot raw or JPEG?

Out of interest what other tweaks did you make?

I'll tell you, but to be honest it was rather quick and unconsidered and in retrospect I think they look a bit light now. I was thinking of your comment about their perhaps being a bit heavy/contrasty, but I think I overdid it trying to reverse out of that. I think I overdid the Clarity for #3 too. Not good; looks crude. And I generally go for a somewhat low contrast look, lower than most people like I think. So don't take too much notice of the exact numbers.

Adjustments for #3


Adjustments for Emja moth 3
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

Here are the Basics Adjustments for #4


Basics adjustments for Emja moth 4
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

I also used a Graduated filter for #4. My initial thought was to darken down that area slightly to balance up the brightness. I see that I also increased the sharpness a bit too. I don't think that achieved anything useful but I suppose I just forgot to move it back to zero after coming to that conclusion.


Graduated filter adjustments for Emja moth 4
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr
 
@GardenersHelper
I've heard of grey cards, but wasn't sure how to use them - definitely something else to look into. I shoot RAW, so do have plenty of room to play with images afterwards, it's more my indecision that's the problem! It's about 18 months or so that I've been using my camera with more creative control, so hopefully as I go on I'll find the decision making a little easier and find more of my own style. I'm with you on going light on contrast/sharpening - it was the first edits that I felt were like this. But as everything it's all personal taste and I'm sure many of my images look wishy washy or soft to others. Thanks again for all your advice - it's been really helpful.
 
I've heard of grey cards, but wasn't sure how to use them - definitely something else to look into.

You might find this interesting, Grey or white card for neutral balancing. As it is so easy to over-expose a white card, I use both white and grey. If the white is over-exposed I can then use the grey.

Grey and white cards used for neutral balance reference shot by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

Incidentally, it doesn't matter the reference shot is in focus. Better if it isn't quite possibly.

In Lightroom I go to the reference shot and use the eyedropper (White Balance Selector) on the white or grey card to set the white balance. I then select all the images I want to apply that white balance to (in addition to having the reference shot selected), and then use the Sync button to transfer that white balance to all of the selected images.

Like the histogram, I treat a grey card white balance setting as a suggestion/starting point, not as the definitive, "correct" white balance. This is for several reasons.
  • The scene may not all have the same white balance. It's not just indoors with mixtures of natural and artificial lighting, but outdoors some of the scene may be sunny and some in the shade, or you may be standing (and taking your white balance reference shot) in the sun while shooting something in the shade.
  • Especially with macro/close-ups, there may be environmental colour casts, with light being reflected off of and transmitted through materials of various colours. Where there is a colour cast, do you really want to arrange it so that a white surface shows up as white in your photo? That may be the "actual", "real", "underlying", "essential" colour, but it isn't the colour you see if looking at the white surface illuminated by greenish light (or pinkish, or yellowish...) Opinions vary about this. My preference is that if the scene had a colour cast then I'm fine with that, unless I find it visually offputting, in which case I'll alter it. This isn't consistent of course, but consistency isn't one of my criteria!
  • Even without the complications of colour casts or mixed illumination, the "correct" white balance may simply look wrong or unappealing to me. If so, I'll change it.

I shoot RAW, so do have plenty of room to play with images afterwards, it's more my indecision that's the problem! It's about 18 months or so that I've been using my camera with more creative control, so hopefully as I go on I'll find the decision making a little easier and find more of my own style.

I'm sure you will. FWIW though, quite apart from different people having different preferences about colour, if you are anything like me then even to your own eyes there may sometimes not be a "best" option in terms of colour rendition. Sometimes I can like two, or more, rather different renditions (and it's not just colour that might differ), liking different aspects of the different versions.

I'm with you on going light on contrast/sharpening - it was the first edits that I felt were like this. But as everything it's all personal taste and I'm sure many of my images look wishy washy or soft to others.

I am absolutely convinced that my images come across that way to many people who much prefer a stronger immediate impact, with greater contrast and stronger colours.

On sharpening, I must plead guilty to excessive sharpening. I know my images, especially insects and spiders, are not realistic because of all the sharpening I apply to them. But I've always said that what I'm interested in is producing "pretty pictures" if I can, and that look of "seeing more detail than you could actually see directly" appeals to my sensibilities. It's a bit hyper/surreal or whatever, but FWIW it's a look a like (for insects and spiders).

Thanks again for all your advice - it's been really helpful.

It's a pleasure, and for my part at least often highly instructive, to have substantive discussions about these things rather than simply finding nice things to say about one anothers' images. (Nothing wrong in that btw - I'm all for encouraging others and I try to do that myself; for some posts even simple encouraging comments have perhaps been a bit thin on the ground here recently, or perhaps that is my imagination. But anyway, I do like it when the discussion gets more detailed.)
 
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