MPE-65 familiarisation shots

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As described in this post in my "Journey" thread, I have been practising with an MPE-65 to see if it could fit into my toolkit, probably using it at 4X to 5X for small subjects such as springtails. I had hoped to try it on some small subjects in our garden today but unfortunately I couldn't find any. FWIW here are a few of today's test shots, albeit at lesser magnifications of I think (I didn't keep notes) in the range of 1X to 3X (Image 7 might have been at a higher magnification). The MPE-65 was mounted on a Sony A7ii, with a Venus Optics KX800 twin flash. I used various apertures today but it turns out that all these used minimum aperture of f/16.

The raw files were batch processed in DXO PhotoLab and then Silkypix, with image-specific adjustments in Lightroom. There are 1300 pixel high versions in this album at Flickr.

#1 A paperweight

1573 1 2019_11_16 DSC00827_PLab3 SP9 LR 1300h
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#2 London Pride

1573 2 2019_11_16 DSC00861_PLab3 SP9 LR 1300h
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#3 This was on a bench that has lived outside for some years.

1573 3 2019_11_16 DSC00916_PLab3 SP9 LR 1300h
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#4

1573 4 2019_11_16 DSC00918_PLab3 SP9 LR 1300h
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#5

1573 5 2019_11_16 DSC00953_PLab3 SP9 LR 1300h
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#6

1573 6 2019_11_16 DSC00945_PLab3 SP9 LR 1300h
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#7

1573 7 2019_11_16 DSC00986_PLab3 SP9 LR 1300h-DNAI
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#8

1573 8 2019_11_16 DSC01071_PLab3 SP9 LR 1300h-2
by gardenersassistant, on Flickr
 
Some cracking stuff there, particularly like the abstract of the paperweight. One of very few lenses in the Canon range that Nikon don't cover and I've often wondered about. Did think about having a play with one of the Laowa 25mm 2.5-5x lenses, but haven't got around to it yet
 
Some cracking stuff there, particularly like the abstract of the paperweight. One of very few lenses in the Canon range that Nikon don't cover and I've often wondered about. Did think about having a play with one of the Laowa 25mm 2.5-5x lenses, but haven't got around to it yet

Thanks. It is a beast of a lens: compared to what I am used to it is heavy, awkward and slow to use, it extends a huge amount to get out to 5:1, it needs a lot of turning to get from one magnification to another, especially for big magnification changes, it is difficult to locate small subjects, focusing is difficult at higher magnifications and this is not helped by the fact that on the A7ii at least focus peaking only occasionally works at higher magnifications, and even when it does there are only a very few peaking dots showing, so few that they they can be difficult to see. On the other hand, it is beginning to look like for small subjects it can produce much better image quality than the kit I currently use. It feels at the moment like either I come to grips with the MPE-65 or I give up on the idea of photographing small subjects.

That said, the Laowa does interest me too. The magnification range is restricted compared to the MPE-65, but that would actually fit with my requirements. I like the fact it is smaller and lighter than the MPE-65, and the front of the lens barrel having a smaller diameter than the MPE-65 means that it would be possible to use at a less acute angle than with the MPE-65. I'm not sure how much of a disadvantage it would be not being able to fit a twin flash on to the front of the lens. I have a Venus Optics bendy arm twin flash, so that might not be too much of a problem in my case. YMMV of course.
 
Thanks. It is a beast of a lens: compared to what I am used to it is heavy, awkward and slow to use, it extends a huge amount to get out to 5:1, it needs a lot of turning to get from one magnification to another, especially for big magnification changes, it is difficult to locate small subjects.
All true but I am sure that you will get there, a torch can help find very small subjects.
Ideally with a glamourous assistant to use it for you - but that might be a bit tricky.
My wife is glamourous - but I don't think she will take the torch and shine it on subjects for me.
 
All true but I am sure that you will get there, a torch can help find very small subjects.

It's not finding the subjects in that sense that is the problem at the moment. It is true that just now it is difficult finding any suitable living subjects because there isn't much around on view - every little 1 or 2mm blob I look at turns out to be a blemish on a leaf, a bit of dirt or .... worse. But I've been using them to practice on. There are plenty the size of springtails etc, and so in that sense finding subjects hasn't been the problem. The problem arises after I have chosen something to photograph - I find it really difficult at 4:1 and 5:1 to point this rather large and heavy lens in exactly the right direction and at the right distance from the subject so it actually comes into view (unless you are at the right distance nothing comes into view, and if what does come into view isn't what you are looking for it can be very difficult to work out which direction to move to try to find it. Maybe it is just me (although from what @TimmyG said at the start of this thread I don't think it is just me). It can be very frustrating. I know exactly where the subject is, I can see it fine, but can I line the camera up on it? And this is with little things that are not moving around.

I'm hoping that with practice I'll get better at this. I got a hint of a method today that seems to make it easier, so I'll be practising that.

Ideally with a glamourous assistant to use it for you - but that might be a bit tricky.
My wife is glamourous - but I don't think she will take the torch and shine it on subjects for me.

:)
 
It's not finding the subjects in that sense that is the problem at the moment. It is true that just now it is difficult finding any suitable living subjects because there isn't much around on view - every little 1 or 2mm blob I look at turns out to be a blemish on a leaf, a bit of dirt or .... worse. But I've been using them to practice on. There are plenty the size of springtails etc, and so in that sense finding subjects hasn't been the problem. The problem arises after I have chosen something to photograph - I find it really difficult at 4:1 and 5:1 to point this rather large and heavy lens in exactly the right direction and at the right distance from the subject so it actually comes into view (unless you are at the right distance nothing comes into view, and if what does come into view isn't what you are looking for it can be very difficult to work out which direction to move to try to find it. Maybe it is just me (although from what @TimmyG said at the start of this thread I don't think it is just me). It can be very frustrating. I know exactly where the subject is, I can see it fine, but can I line the camera up on it? And this is with little things that are not moving around.

I'm hoping that with practice I'll get better at this. I got a hint of a method today that seems to make it easier, so I'll be practising that.



:)
What method is that? Springtails don't always need to be 4x mag - this was at 3.3

SpringtailIMG_1523 by davholla2002, on Flickr
 
What method is that?

I've described it in the fifth and sixth paragraphs of my latest post in my Journey thread.

Springtails don't always need to be 4x mag - this was at 3.3

I'm using full frame though. According to my calculations (always subject to correction!) the scene was 3.8mm tall and using the same mild crop you did I would need to use 5.4X magnification for the subject to occupy the same proportion of the image height. Of course, your 40D is 10mpix while my A7ii is 24mpix, which means I have more scope for cropping. Indeed, I could use the A7ii in APS-C mode which would use 10mpix on the sensor, with which I then could use the same 3.3X magnification that you used here.

 
Thanks. It is a beast of a lens: compared to what I am used to it is heavy, awkward and slow to use, it extends a huge amount to get out to 5:1, it needs a lot of turning to get from one magnification to another, especially for big magnification changes, it is difficult to locate small subjects, focusing is difficult at higher magnifications and this is not helped by the fact that on the A7ii at least focus peaking only occasionally works at higher magnifications, and even when it does there are only a very few peaking dots showing, so few that they they can be difficult to see. On the other hand, it is beginning to look like for small subjects it can produce much better image quality than the kit I currently use. It feels at the moment like either I come to grips with the MPE-65 or I give up on the idea of photographing small subjects.

That said, the Laowa does interest me too. The magnification range is restricted compared to the MPE-65, but that would actually fit with my requirements. I like the fact it is smaller and lighter than the MPE-65, and the front of the lens barrel having a smaller diameter than the MPE-65 means that it would be possible to use at a less acute angle than with the MPE-65. I'm not sure how much of a disadvantage it would be not being able to fit a twin flash on to the front of the lens. I have a Venus Optics bendy arm twin flash, so that might not be too much of a problem in my case. YMMV of course.

I haven't (yet) attempted to photograph anything that small. Most of the stuff I shoot is close-up, occasionally bordering on proper macro. I usually use a FF Nikon, with 105 macro and sometimes with either 1.4x or 2x teleconverter or extension tubes/Raynox 250 so I'm well used to the weight. My 300 F4 and TC's quite often gets used for close-up work too. I echo your thoughts about finding small subjects when using either the extension tubes or Raynox (so goodness knows how hard it is at 5x magnification!) - it can be nigh-on impossible sometimes due to the extremely shallow focus sweet spot.

Focus peaking is one of those things that I suspect would be very useful for close-up work. I'm planning to have a proper look at the mirrorless options that might suit the stuff I shoot in the not too distant future

Interesting that you're using the Venus twin flash - that's one that's been on my wish-list for a while, might pick one up at some point funds permitting...

Thanks for the mention in your 'Journey of exploration' thread - I'll have a proper read when I've a little more time :)
 
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I haven't (yet) attempted to photograph anything that small. Most of the stuff I shoot is close-up, occasionally bordering on proper macro. I usually use a FF Nikon, with 105 macro and sometimes with either 1.4x or 2x teleconverter or extension tubes/Raynox 250 so I'm well used to the weight. My 300 F4 and TC's quite often gets used for close-up work too. I echo your thoughts about finding small subjects when using either the extension tubes or Raynox (so goodness knows how hard it is at 5x magnification!) - it can be nigh-on impossible sometimes due to the extremely shallow focus sweet spot.

That is one of the big advantages of my setups with close-up lenses on telezooms. It makes finding small subjects much, much easier: zoom to wide angle, find the subject and put it in the centre of the frame, zoom in on it. Quick, and easy. Image quality is a bit iffy at higher magnifications though, which is why I'm prepared to endure the hassles of using a macro lens setup for small subjects, as long as the image quality is better. I don't yet know whether that will be the case yet. Either way, I intend continuing with telezoom+close-up lens setups for most of what I do with invertebrates, my current thinking being to stick with my small sensor bridge cameras in that context.

Focus peaking is one of those things that I suspect would be very useful for close-up work. I'm planning to have a proper look at the mirrorless options that might suit the stuff I shoot in the not too distant future

The focus peaking on the A7ii is quite good, but as the magnification goes up its effectiveness goes down. At the highest magnifications I'm using at the moment it is almost completely invisible, just when I most need it. That has been disappointing.

Interesting that you're using the Venus twin flash - that's one that's been on my wish-list for a while, might pick one up at some point funds permitting...

It's an odd device. I like it and have been using it for several years, but I know of at least one person here who has tried it and not got on with it. I don't recall whether anyone else here uses it.

Thanks for the mention in your 'Journey of exploration' thread - I'll have a proper read when I've a little more time :)

It is rather long and overly detailed, but I've found it helpful to write stuff down; it makes me think about things more thoroughly and do tests/experiments more carefully. And there can be helpful feedback too. How useful it would be reading it is another matter altogether. :)
 
That is one of the big advantages of my setups with close-up lenses on telezooms. It makes finding small subjects much, much easier: zoom to wide angle, find the subject and put it in the centre of the frame, zoom in on it. Quick, and easy. Image quality is a bit iffy at higher magnifications though, which is why I'm prepared to endure the hassles of using a macro lens setup for small subjects, as long as the image quality is better. I don't yet know whether that will be the case yet. Either way, I intend continuing with telezoom+close-up lens setups for most of what I do with invertebrates, my current thinking being to stick with my small sensor bridge cameras in that context.



The focus peaking on the A7ii is quite good, but as the magnification goes up its effectiveness goes down. At the highest magnifications I'm using at the moment it is almost completely invisible, just when I most need it. That has been disappointing.



It's an odd device. I like it and have been using it for several years, but I know of at least one person here who has tried it and not got on with it. I don't recall whether anyone else here uses it.



It is rather long and overly detailed, but I've found it helpful to write stuff down; it makes me think about things more thoroughly and do tests/experiments more carefully. And there can be helpful feedback too. How useful it would be reading it is another matter altogether. :)

I doubt I'll ever get to the levels of magnification you're getting to TBH so it does sound like a useful aid

I like the idea of being able to independently set the position of the two heads - sounds very versatile and (hopefully) allows you to avoid the really in your face flash look that you often get with single inbuilt or hotshoe mounted flash. Think I've read somewhere that the flash power can be set independently on each head? At the moment I'm almost exclusively shooting in natural light but that's not something that'll continue to work if I want to get closer to my subjects...

I'll take a look - macro is an area of photography I find quite challenging, but rewarding and it certainly makes me take my time and think about it - anything that helps increase my knowledge or give me new (to me) ideas can only be a good thing! :)
 
I doubt I'll ever get to the levels of magnification you're getting to TBH so it does sound like a useful aid

I like the idea of being able to independently set the position of the two heads - sounds very versatile and (hopefully) allows you to avoid the really in your face flash look that you often get with single inbuilt or hotshoe mounted flash.

I don't think it is a case of whether it is inbuilt, hotshoe mounted, externally mounted or whatever, but to do with the diffusion. For example, search for "Velcro" on this page by Mark Berkery, who for years used inbuilt flash using snoots of the type illustrated on that page. People such as Brian Valentine ("Lordv") have produced wonderful results with hotshoe mounted single flash units. Both of them may (I don't know) be using different setups now, but they have produced amazing images with simple setups.

Think I've read somewhere that the flash power can be set independently on each head?

Yes, the power is set independently for each head. This is done on the unit that sits in the hot shoe (well, that is where I have it anyway) and it is quick to do because there are dedicated up and down buttons for each head, with a four-way using up and down for the focusing light intensity and left and right each toggling one of the heads off/on.

At the moment I'm almost exclusively shooting in natural light but that's not something that'll continue to work if I want to get closer to my subjects...

Unless you catch them at a time of day when they are not moving, and use a tripod, remote release etc. For example you can get super images for a while after dawn before insects have warmed up enough to get active. You may be able to find inactive ones late in the day too.

I'll take a look - macro is an area of photography I find quite challenging, but rewarding

I think it is challenging for everyone. Well, until you have had lots of practice, then maybe not so much.

and it certainly makes me take my time and think about it - anything that helps increase my knowledge or give me new (to me) ideas can only be a good thing! :)

There is a lot to explore with close-up macro, subjects obviously, but also techniques, kit, processing...
 
I don't think it is a case of whether it is inbuilt, hotshoe mounted, externally mounted or whatever, but to do with the diffusion. For example, search for "Velcro" on this page by Mark Berkery, who for years used inbuilt flash using snoots of the type illustrated on that page. People such as Brian Valentine ("Lordv") have produced wonderful results with hotshoe mounted single flash units. Both of them may (I don't know) be using different setups now, but they have produced amazing images with simple setups.



Yes, the power is set independently for each head. This is done on the unit that sits in the hot shoe (well, that is where I have it anyway) and it is quick to do because there are dedicated up and down buttons for each head, with a four-way using up and down for the focusing light intensity and left and right each toggling one of the heads off/on.



Unless you catch them at a time of day when they are not moving, and use a tripod, remote release etc. For example you can get super images for a while after dawn before insects have warmed up enough to get active. You may be able to find inactive ones late in the day too.



I think it is challenging for everyone. Well, until you have had lots of practice, then maybe not so much.



There is a lot to explore with close-up macro, subjects obviously, but also techniques, kit, processing...

Thanks for the info and links, I'll take a look...

I tend to go out early morning or early evening to see what I can find - seems to work OK for catching Butterflies, Dragonflies, etc. either before they've warmed up or after they've started to settle down for the evening

Definitely a very interesting area of photography :)
 
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