Nikon Z* mirrorless

rookies said:
I was thinking the same about that upgrade.. I wonder if people be waiting for a long time for the next generation such as 2 years?? as can't understand why nikon would bring this out and then bring out a generation 2 soon after
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I think it will be 2-3 years after the initial release that we'll see a gen 2 tbh, so maybe October 2020 at the earliest.
 
rookies said:
Could be the update within the pay update ?? Need someone to get the new pay update and report back
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I think they'd have said something if they have, but I can't see that as that would cause some major backlash.
 
Must be something need altering for this pay update if got be sent back and this makes me think they tweak the AF module ? Then this make it better
 
You know despite the disappointment from the latest firmware release, let's not forget that the Z6, Z7 and Z50 are Nikon's first generation MILC's and for a first try I think they did bloody well. Ergonomically my Z6 and Z7 are two of the best handling cameras I've ever owned (on par with my EM1 MK II and EM1X). Also, the lenses launched so far are all crackers, and let's not forget for a system that is only just over 12 months old to have 10 lenses already available (including the 2 DX ones for the Z50) is quite incredible especially for a company that's allegedly financially struggling like has been reported.

Sure there are a few things that could be polished up and a few firmware tricks that would make the user experience that little bit better, but it doesn't stop me using them at all and grabbing some incredible images. Like I say, for a first iteration set of cameras, I think they did really well. The firmware tweaks I mentioned a few post sup would be the icing on the cake.
 
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How to say this without sounding like a Sony fan boy. Well, firstly I'll say that my first serious camera was a Nikon SLR and I used it for decades. I'd like to buy British to keep the UK and the NHS and all that going but none of this kit really does that so I don't really see why I should care if my kit is Sony made in Thailand or Nikon made In Vietnam (or wherever.) So hopefully having killed off any allegations of fanboyism… and all of this is just my opinion and you're free to disagree and probably will...

I don't really buy the "they did well view." They had years to look at what other players were doing, see the trends, learn from the mistakes and benefit from the advancements and lets not forget that pretty much all of the technology is available to all of the players if they want to spend the money to buy in the know how, expertise and hardware. But instead of coming out with a top end product they haven't and arguably what they have is a me too product which instead of vying for top spot arguably makes the most sense to buyers heavily invested in existing Nikon lenses or the badge kudos.

If that's doing a great job then they've smashed it.
 
Isn't that a bit simplistic though Alan. Unlike Sony, Nikon (and Canon) also have a full and current range of traditional DSLRs and FX and DX mount lenses which also had to be produced and supported alongside, and new units designed (e.g. 500mm PF, D6, D760 etc. etc.) so a company like Nikon obviously needed to be a little conservative about putting all their eggs in one basket. Afterall, if their mirrorless offerings fell flat on their face and all of their time and R&D money went into the mirrorless system and alienated their DSLR base it would pretty much be suicide. I'm guessing from a conservative company like Nikon, it was always going to be a gradual transition into mirrorless rather then all or nothing.

Also, don't forget that at the same time they were also designing a new lens mount for the system and completely new design of lenses to fit that. Furthermore, just copying what others have already done and picking pieces of technology already available and hoping for the best doesn't always guarantee success. It would always be the case that a Nikon MILC system would have to look and most importantly feel like a Nikon (not a Sony), just like the new Canon's feel like a Canon, to ease their current user base into this area.

I stand by what I said before I feel they have done a great job with the hardware for a first iteration.

Now if we are talking about Nikon as a great communicator or as a company that understands or knows what it's customer really want...well that's a different conversation :)
 
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Sootchucker said:
You know despite the disappointment from the latest firmware release, let's not forget that the Z6, Z7 and Z50 are Nikon's first generation MILC's and for a first try I think they did bloody well. Ergonomically my Z6 and Z7 are two of the best handling cameras I've ever owned (on par with my EM1 MK II and EM1X). Also, the lenses launched so far are all crackers, and let's not forget for a system that is only just over 12 months old to have 10 lenses already available (including the 2 DX ones for the Z50) is quite incredible especially for a company that's allegedly financially struggling like has been reported.

Sure there are a few things that could be polished up and a few firmware tricks that would make the user experience that little bit better, but it doesn't stop me using them at all and grabbing some incredible images. Like I say, for a first iteration set of cameras, I think they did really well. The firmware tweaks I mentioned a few post sup would be the icing on the cake.
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TBH I don't get all the disappointment, Nikon never promised anything it was all (wrong as it turns out) speculation.
woof woof said:
How to say this without sounding like a Sony fan boy. Well, firstly I'll say that my first serious camera was a Nikon SLR and I used it for decades. I'd like to buy British to keep the UK and the NHS and all that going but none of this kit really does that so I don't really see why I should care if my kit is Sony made in Thailand or Nikon made In Vietnam (or wherever.) So hopefully having killed off any allegations of fanboyism… and all of this is just my opinion and you're free to disagree and probably will...

I don't really buy the "they did well view." They had years to look at what other players were doing, see the trends, learn from the mistakes and benefit from the advancements and lets not forget that pretty much all of the technology is available to all of the players if they want to spend the money to buy in the know how, expertise and hardware. But instead of coming out with a top end product they haven't and arguably what they have is a me too product which instead of vying for top spot arguably makes the most sense to buyers heavily invested in existing Nikon lenses or the badge kudos.

If that's doing a great job then they've smashed it.
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I don't know the answer to this so it's just a question, but is it as simple as just being able to copy everyone else? If it were wouldn't everyone have class leading tech? Look at how much sigma and Tamron have struggled to reverse engineer Nikon F mount and Canon EF mount. I'm sure there's some heavily guarded secrets in the tech world, and Sony's AF algorithms and blackout free shooting are probably two such secrets.

If it was that simple to bring create class leading AF why didn't Sony do it from the get go? No there weren't any other systems to copy but look where they are now, you could argue that they should have waited to bring the A7 series out until 2018 (when the A7iii came out) when they had pretty much perfected the AF system (for most users). They saw a gap in the market and went for it, even though their cameras weren't up to scratch and a way off the DSLRs at the time.

Canikon were heavily criticised for not bringing out mirrorless cameras sooner, and when they finally got their act together and made the decision to join the party I'm sure it was in their interest to do it sooner rather than later. It might take them another year or two (maybe longer) to get the AF up to speed, and if they waited until then would they not have been criticised more? Would there be any market left for them at all by then?

If my logic is right then I think Nikon (and Canon for that matter) did a very good job. As pointed out by sootchucker Nikon have a great DSLR lineup to fall back onto (the same couldn't be said for Sony) and so the transition could well be slower. Also, not everyone wants\needs the best AF, and I'm not sure the Z's were ever billed as sports cams. The Z7 for example is a tremendous landscape and studio camera, you don't see many folk complaining about the AF with Leica and Hasselblad. Now I"m not saying the Nikon are as good as those, but they are great for their purpose and that's my point. Now yes in an ideal world personally I'd like better AF, faster fps with real time view, and a quicker EVF refresh rate, but that doesn't mean the Z7 is a bad camera or a poor effort from Nikon.

Now I'm sure this will probably read as a Nikon fanboy trying to defend Nikon but I really don't think it is, I'm trying to be as objective as possible, plus I don't think I'm a Nikon fanboy really. I use Olympus, and if the A9-II was cheaper I'd have given Sony a whirl.
 
I think it would take a couple of generations for me to buy a camera from a company which doesn’t have a proven history of film camera development. That’s possibly why Sony aren’t as ergonomic (to me) as others.
 
Stephen L said:
I think it would take a couple of generations for me to buy a camera from a company which doesn’t have a proven history of film camera development. That’s possibly why Sony aren’t as ergonomic (to me) as others.
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Not sure about that, the A77 and A77-II were fantastic ergonomically imo.
 
Stephen L said:
I think it would take a couple of generations for me to buy a camera from a company which doesn’t have a proven history of film camera development. That’s possibly why Sony aren’t as ergonomic (to me) as others.
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Well don’t forget they took Minolta over and more than just the name. Then of course using Minolta they produced numerous generations of the Sony A mount and then numerous generations of the E mount. More generations than Nikon certainly and it most definitely shows.
 
Brazo said:
Well don’t forget they took Minolta over and more than just the name. Then of course using Minolta they produced numerous generations of the Sony A mount and then numerous generations of the E mount. More generations than Nikon certainly and it most definitely shows.
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Fair comment.
 
twist said:
Another thing to look into is how many recalls Nikon has had vs Sony if you think the Sonys are made poorly.
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Now I never said anything about quality, build or image. In fact, being an electronics company, I would expect their soft/firmware to be top notch.
don’t “twist” my words. :)
 
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Stephen L said:
Now I never said anything about quality, build or image. In fact, being an electronics company, I would expect their soft/firmware to be top notch.
don’t “twist” my words. :)
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Not twisting your words, a lot of people will stick with Canikon because they think they are more solid, but tbh thats not true.
 
Stephen L said:
Fair comment.
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I do agree with you reference the ergonomics. I was Minolta in the film days and then Sony A mount which I loved but when it died I switched to Nikon F mount rather than the A7 which didn’t appeal to me. That’s why I lurk in here, awaiting for some Nikon magic to start happening! That said really happy with F mount still.
 
twist said:
Not twisting your words, a lot of people will stick with Canikon because they think they are more solid, but tbh thats not true.
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I’ve been around long enough to know that all modern camera systems are pretty equal from an engineering pov. Not like the olden days. Nor do I have any particular allegiance to any brand. My antipathy towards Sony originates from handling one at a photographic exhibition quite a few years ago. Probably I should handle one again, but there’s no point as I find the Z6 adequate for my needs.
 
Stephen L said:
I’ve been around long enough to know that all modern camera systems are pretty equal from an engineering pov. Not like the olden days. Nor do I have any particular allegiance to any brand. My antipathy towards Sony originates from handling one at a photographic exhibition quite a few years ago. Probably I should handle one again, but there’s no point as I find the Z6 adequate for my needs.
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TBH the latest incarnations are much better ergonomically, although still noticeably behind the Z's imho. That being said they're now at a point where I'd consider buying one if I wasn't so heavily invested into Nikon, or I didn't think Nikon would bring out a better body in the next year or so.
 
Just hope on the next iteration Nikon back off from this smaller is better mentality.
I think I'd find the Z's easier to handle in a slightly larger body. Not heavier, just slightly larger.
Would mean they could make the buttons a little larger as well (illuminated would be good too)

When do you think we're likely to see the next generation?
 
An ever so slightly larger body would be nice. I simply couldn't get along with the Z50 due to its tiny size. Illuminated buttons although not used often is always a handy feature, especially at this time of the year. There's quite a list of things I'd like to see in second gen FF Z's. Obviously they need to sort out the focusing and lack of modes. I originally was going to hold off until the second generations but bit the bullet on a Z6 during the summer. I'd expect another FF Z camera to be released next year, whether this is a second gen Z6/Z7 or a completely new line is a possibility. I'd like a A9 competitor, 30mp, 20 fps, dual cfexpress, blackout free evf. The Z series has good foundations and the lenses are stellar in my opinion.
 
Skypilot said:
Just hope on the next iteration Nikon back off from this smaller is better mentality.
I think I'd find the Z's easier to handle in a slightly larger body. Not heavier, just slightly larger.
Would mean they could make the buttons a little larger as well (illuminated would be good too)

When do you think we're likely to see the next generation?
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No-one knows when the next gens will be, but as the first weren't released until October 2018 I think it'll be October 2020 at the earliest, but could well be 2021 (purely my speculation).

I don't want a larger body, for me it's the best ergonomics of the lot. I like, and find it more comfortable, wrapping my pinky finger underneath the camera and find it's more stable too. That's why I always liked the D750, EM1 and now Z's. I prefer them all to cameras like the D850. (For the record I have large hands)

In terms of what they'll offer I think it will be like any other upgrade, better AF, more fps (especially in real time view), and probably better connectivity. I would also like them to include a better refresh rate for the EVF, 60fps is too slow. I would also like (as I think it would be good for Nikon) two card slots. Illuminated buttons would be good, I liked them on the D850.
 
To be fair ime not doing bad with deciding which focus setting to use for different things on the Z50, i do find his thoughts on the area modes desire to focus on the closest subject interesting, i think i will look at this.

snerkler said:
It’s
It’s a concise review but different to what Nikon themselves advised me. They said pinpoint is CDAF and everything else is hybrid, and does not select one or the other.
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Any sign of any pancake lenses? Would love something like the Sony 35 F2.8 for a light weight travel set up.
 
AndrewSt said:
Any sign of any pancake lenses? Would love something like the Sony 35 F2.8 for a light weight travel set up.
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There are 28 and 40mm "compact" lenses on the roadmap which people are describing as pancake lenses. No apertures suggested.
 
is there a battery grip available for the z6 / z7 body ?
i find there a very small camera body in my big buckle hands.
 
holty said:
is there a battery grip available for the z6 / z7 body ?
i find there a very small camera body in my big buckle hands.
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Yes, there is one available that Nikon have produced that is precisely that. A battery grip but be warned it has no controls included.
 
holty said:
is there a battery grip available for the z6 / z7 body ?
i find there a very small camera body in my big buckle hands.
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Here it is on my Z7. As has been mentioned there are no external controls at all. It does take two batteries though.



 
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