Nikon Z* mirrorless

the D lenses "work" and register the aperture but are MF only if and until Nikon bring out a new adaptor with inbuilt focus motor. I don't personally find that a problem with my 105mm f2.8 micro but for others AF may be crucial.
Do you manually focus or does it actually Auto focus with the 105 Macro on?
 
you have to manually focus with the D lenses as the current FTZ adaptor doesn't support AF with them.
 
you have to manually focus with the D lenses as the current FTZ adaptor doesn't support AF with them.

Interesting. I'd thought the adapter was supposed to work well with AF lenses, but perhaps that's only a select group rather than all of them.
 
Interesting. I'd thought the adapter was supposed to work well with AF lenses, but perhaps that's only a select group rather than all of them.
D lenses are very old and screw drive motors hence the adaptor for Z not working, it will work on the AF-S built in focus motor lenses
 
Be interested to see how it compares to the current F mount fl 70-200. Which is amazing!
Looking at the MTF above compared with this for the AF-S FL the new one looks sharper, especially at the edges. The FL might have nicer/softer bokeh though looking at that, but we’ll have to wait and see.
A69D54A3-E239-4325-A0E4-F6D0B14A61EA.png
 
Last edited:
Seems Nikon have taken over second spot from Sony again in Japan. Interesting to see Olympus so high when people keep saying m4/3 is dead.

https://www.43rumors.com/both-olympus-and-panasonic-system-camera-shares-increased-in-japan/

So Nikon sold slightly more in 2 weeks, impressive. Work out the rest of the 2019 marketshare and split it amongst everyone else.

Mirrorless cameras market
..........................2018..........2019
Canon................31.6%........30.9%
Sony...................22.7%........25.9%
Olympus.............23.5%........23.4%
 
So Nikon sold slightly more in 2 weeks, impressive. Work out the rest of the 2019 marketshare and split it amongst everyone else.

Mirrorless cameras market
..........................2018..........2019
Canon................31.6%........30.9%
Sony...................22.7%........25.9%
Olympus.............23.5%........23.4%
Well it was a month not two weeks, but it was more just to point out a glimpse of positivity for Nikon, nothing more.
 
The graph shows a peak in sonys favour. It'll be an interesting year :)
Tbh it wouldn’t surprise me if Canon tops the mirrorless list, people just want to buy Canon.

I’ll be watching Nikon’s fortunes more closely this year as I need to know if I should bail out or not. Nikon’s Z glass looks superb, but they really need to show they can release a competitive body, in terms of AF and other common areas such as a grip that bloody well works (can you tell I’m still exasperated that Nikon didn’t design a system with a functional grip) and dual card slots. I’m not too bothered by the latter but it’s obviously not going to tempt many pros.
 
I’ll be watching Nikon’s fortunes more closely this year as I need to know if I should bail out or not.

If this is your intentions I suggest you to look at the stats on lens rentals blog and listen to some recent podcasts on there.
For me at this point it's not so much the sales/interest, it's more the drop in R&D budget, then losing people to competitors (discussed by Roger) and top it all off spreading themselves thinly across many areas with the above limited resources.
 
Whilst it's clear that Nikon most likely doesn't have the R&D budgets of say Canon and Sony (they are after all much bigger companies making more than just photo equipment), it's still quite commendable in my eye, that since the launch of the Z series in September 2018 (so 17 months), Nikon have launched (or about to launch),
  • 3 Z bodies (Z6, Z7, Z50)
  • 2 DSLR's (D780, D6) - both imminent.
  • 9 Z lenses (11 including the 2 DX ones),
  • 2 F mount lenses (500mm F5.6 PF and the new 120-300 F2.8)
  • 12 further Z mount lenses already committed to this year and until the end of next year.
Also, who knows how many bodies they are working on was well. Maybe also there's a D850 replacement being developed, and surely more Z bodies in the pipeline.

Just looking at the Z lenses for a moment - to have 11 lenses for a new mount ready to market in under 18 months since initial launch, it pretty creditable.

For a company as relatively small as Nikon, that's quite an accomplishment in less than 18 months. I'm not saying Nikon are doing everything right (clearly they can make some very bad or peculiar decisions) , or that financially they will be OK in the long term, but it seems they really are pushing on at a pace with new product developments.

Also, the flip side is that I sometimes think launching new products one after the other to supersede the previous model in a short timescale is counter productive, as it just p***es off those that just invested in a body or lens all to have it superseded in 12 months or so. Much better in my eye to get the model as right as possible before launch then mature it over 2-3 years with meaningful firmware upgrades to prolong it's life (like for instance as Fuji and Olympus do very well). To be honest, in the 17 months since launch as well, the Z6, and Z7 have already received some quite major firmware upgrades as well, without people having to dump their body after a short amount of time to "upgrade" to the latest and greatest.
 
Last edited:
If this is your intentions I suggest you to look at the stats on lens rentals blog and listen to some recent podcasts on there.
For me at this point it's not so much the sales/interest, it's more the drop in R&D budget, then losing people to competitors (discussed by Roger) and top it all off spreading themselves thinly across many areas with the above limited resources.
Nikon said themselves that they are cutting back and trying to streamline to save losses which I don't have an issue with. As long as they stay in business and develop a competitive Z body that's all that they need to do to keep me in the Nikon camp. However, if they continue to make losses and it looks as though they'll pull the plug then I need to get out before my gear is worthless.
Whilst it's clear that Nikon most likely doesn't have the R&D budgets of say Canon and Sony (they are after all much bigger companies making more than just photo equipment), it's still quite commendable in my eye, that since the launch of the Z series in September 2018 (so 17 months), Nikon have launched (or about to launch),
  • 3 Z bodies (Z6, Z7, Z50)
  • 2 DSLR's (D780, D6) - both imminent.
  • 9 Z lenses (11 including the 2 DX ones),
  • 2 F mount lenses (500mm F5.6 PF and the new 120-300 F2.8)
  • 12 further Z mount lenses already committed to this year and until the end of next year.
Also, who knows how many bodies they are working on was well. Maybe also there's a D850 replacement being developed, and surely more Z bodies in the pipeline.

Just looking at the Z lenses for a moment - to have 11 lenses for a new mount ready to market in under 18 months since initial launch, it pretty creditable.

For a company as relatively small as Nikon, that's quite an accomplishment in less than 18 months. I'm not saying Nikon are doing everything right (clearly they can make some very bad or peculiar decisions) , or that financially they will be OK in the long term, but it seems they really are pushing on at a pace with new product developments.

Also, the flip side is that I sometimes think launching new products one after the other to supersede the previous model in a short timescale is counter productive, as it just p***es off those that just invested in a body or lens all to have it superseded in 12 months or so. Much better in my eye to get the model as right as possible before launch then mature it over 2-3 years with meaningful firmware upgrades to prolong it's life (like for instance as Fuji and Olympus do very well). To be honest, in the 17 months since launch as well, the Z6, and Z7 have already received some quite major firmware upgrades as well, without people having to dump their body after a short amount of time to "upgrade" to the latest and greatest.
I think they've done very well too. I agree that superseding bodies too quickly annoys existing users which is why I don't think we'll see a Z6-II or Z7-II until the end of the year at the earliest. I think a Z8/9 is more likely.
 
Whilst it's clear that Nikon most likely doesn't have the R&D budgets of say Canon and Sony (they are after all much bigger companies making more than just photo equipment), it's still quite commendable in my eye, that since the launch of the Z series in September 2018 (so 17 months), Nikon have launched (or about to launch),
  • 3 Z bodies (Z6, Z7, Z50)
  • 2 DSLR's (D780, D6) - both imminent.
  • 9 Z lenses (11 including the 2 DX ones),
  • 2 F mount lenses (500mm F5.6 PF and the new 120-300 F2.8)
  • 12 further Z mount lenses already committed to this year and until the end of next year.
Also, who knows how many bodies they are working on was well. Maybe also there's a D850 replacement being developed, and surely more Z bodies in the pipeline.

Just looking at the Z lenses for a moment - to have 11 lenses for a new mount ready to market in under 18 months since initial launch, it pretty creditable.

For a company as relatively small as Nikon, that's quite an accomplishment in less than 18 months. I'm not saying Nikon are doing everything right (clearly they can make some very bad or peculiar decisions) , or that financially they will be OK in the long term, but it seems they really are pushing on at a pace with new product developments.

Also, the flip side is that I sometimes think launching new products one after the other to supersede the previous model in a short timescale is counter productive, as it just p***es off those that just invested in a body or lens all to have it superseded in 12 months or so. Much better in my eye to get the model as right as possible before launch then mature it over 2-3 years with meaningful firmware upgrades to prolong it's life (like for instance as Fuji and Olympus do very well). To be honest, in the 17 months since launch as well, the Z6, and Z7 have already received some quite major firmware upgrades as well, without people having to dump their body after a short amount of time to "upgrade" to the latest and greatest.

Fujis not doing things very well either, they release a new camera (across various body styles) with the same sensor every 5 mins, discount heavily via promotions pretty much every 3 months and that p***es people off, because the camera they just bought is updated, theyd like to purchase the new one but then find their camera is worthless on the used market due to promotions and dealer discounts.

I agree about Nikon, what they have achieved with the Z line is impressive, other lines of business not so much.
 
Last edited:
I think they've done very well too. I agree that superseding bodies too quickly annoys existing users which is why I don't think we'll see a Z6-II or Z7-II until the end of the year at the earliest. I think a Z8/9 is more likely.

Really hope so, I know a lot of guys who are holding back on swapping/adding a Z series body.

The added dilemma then will be choosing between a Z8/9 or a D6, time will tell...

GC
 
Whilst it's clear that Nikon most likely doesn't have the R&D budgets of say Canon and Sony (they are after all much bigger companies making more than just photo equipment), it's still quite commendable in my eye, that since the launch of the Z series in September 2018 (so 17 months), Nikon have launched (or about to launch),
  • 3 Z bodies (Z6, Z7, Z50)
  • 2 DSLR's (D780, D6) - both imminent.
  • 9 Z lenses (11 including the 2 DX ones),
  • 2 F mount lenses (500mm F5.6 PF and the new 120-300 F2.8)
  • 12 further Z mount lenses already committed to this year and until the end of next year.
Also, who knows how many bodies they are working on was well. Maybe also there's a D850 replacement being developed, and surely more Z bodies in the pipeline.

Just looking at the Z lenses for a moment - to have 11 lenses for a new mount ready to market in under 18 months since initial launch, it pretty creditable.

For a company as relatively small as Nikon, that's quite an accomplishment in less than 18 months. I'm not saying Nikon are doing everything right (clearly they can make some very bad or peculiar decisions) , or that financially they will be OK in the long term, but it seems they really are pushing on at a pace with new product developments.

Also, the flip side is that I sometimes think launching new products one after the other to supersede the previous model in a short timescale is counter productive, as it just p***es off those that just invested in a body or lens all to have it superseded in 12 months or so. Much better in my eye to get the model as right as possible before launch then mature it over 2-3 years with meaningful firmware upgrades to prolong it's life (like for instance as Fuji and Olympus do very well). To be honest, in the 17 months since launch as well, the Z6, and Z7 have already received some quite major firmware upgrades as well, without people having to dump their body after a short amount of time to "upgrade" to the latest and greatest.

There is a difference in having a smaller budget and cutting down on your budget. :)
Note, I never compared them to budget of other companies, I just said it's worrying that they are cutting down on it.

My point isn't what have done isn't commendable, my point was they trying to be commendable in too many areas. Even canon who admittedly have a larger budget is concentrating on one mount and have made it openly clear. Nikon with a smaller budget and one that's going down is spreading it across. I don't like that.
 
agree with what you say nandbytes, but I think that Nikon is still investing (but maybe not as much) in their legacy lenses (i.e. F mount) and DSLR's because the take up on mirrorless for them, wasn't as great initially as they'd hoped for. I fully expect once the D780 and D6's are to market, to see much fewer announcements of these legacy type products, and more in the mirrorless field.

It was sort of easy for Sony to pull their followers across to mirrorless as they had no real DSLR offerings and certainly nothing like the history and units sold globally of the likes of Canon and Nikon. Fuji never had a real DSLR offer (just rebadged Nikon bodies), so it was much easier for them as they didn't have to worry about upsetting a huge user base.

Whilst mirrorless we all know has some real advantages over the optical system of the DSLR, people that have been using SLR's then DSLRs with large amounts of F mount glass were always going to be slow on the uptake of these new products. I think if Nikon is honest with itself, they shouldn't have expected all the Pro's and Semi-Pros shooting with their brand and very heavily invested in the Nikon ecosystem to simply go out and dump all their equipment for Z type alternatives. That's the reason why the FTZ adapter was released at the time to "ease" peoples transition into mirrorless. Furthermore, until there's a real D850, D500, D5 (D6) alternative professional type bodies available in the Z series, and the lens range is fleshed out to a point where most if not all of the "standard" glass (i.e. not the more exotic lenses) are available in native Z mount versions, then I think Nikon has to have a foot in both camps, as it's a dual revenue stream for them. At present the DSLR's and F mount offerings most likely are still the huge drivers financially for them.

As I said, I do firmly believe once mirrorless for Nikon starts to gain a little more traction, with some newer higher spec bodies and the lenses currently on the roadmap are released, that the amount of R&D for their traditional products will start to dwindle. These are just my thoughts though.
 
Last edited:
Really hope so, I know a lot of guys who are holding back on swapping/adding a Z series body.

The added dilemma then will be choosing between a Z8/9 or a D6, time will tell...

GC
I'd be very surprised if a hypothetical Z8/9 could compete with a D6, or even D5 for that matter, but as you say time will tell (y)
There is a difference in having a smaller budget and cutting down on your budget. :)
Note, I never compared them to budget of other companies, I just said it's worrying that they are cutting down on it.

My point isn't what have done isn't commendable, my point was they trying to be commendable in too many areas. Even canon who admittedly have a larger budget is concentrating on one mount and have made it openly clear. Nikon with a smaller budget and one that's going down is spreading it across. I don't like that.
You could argue that Nikon are being smart. Mirrorless uptake hasn't been as big as anticipated (I believe it's the same as Canon) which I assume is in part due to those that wanted mirrorless have already migrated to Sony, and a large portion of the others want to stay with DSLR. If this latter is true (and everything I read suggests that it is) then Nikon are wise to continue to invest in the DSLR market, and it could be Canon who regret putting all their eggs in ones basket (although it's not as though they don't have enough EF lenses anyway). Once again time will tell.
 
I'd be very surprised if a hypothetical Z8/9 could compete with a D6, or even D5 for that matter, but as you say time will tell (y)

Dont be to sure about that, look at what Sony did with the gen3 and even more impressively a simple FW update to the A9.
 
Dont be to sure about that, look at what Sony did with the gen3 and even more impressively a simple FW update to the A9.
I think they'll get there eventually, I'm just not sure they will with their first foray into a sports mirrorless. But it's only a guess, and what do I know :LOL:
 
I'd be very surprised if a hypothetical Z8/9 could compete with a D6, or even D5 for that matter, but as you say time will tell (y)
You could argue that Nikon are being smart. Mirrorless uptake hasn't been as big as anticipated (I believe it's the same as Canon) which I assume is in part due to those that wanted mirrorless have already migrated to Sony, and a large portion of the others want to stay with DSLR. If this latter is true (and everything I read suggests that it is) then Nikon are wise to continue to invest in the DSLR market, and it could be Canon who regret putting all their eggs in ones basket (although it's not as though they don't have enough EF lenses anyway). Once again time will tell.

and its not as though Nikon don't have enough F lenses :)

I think the migration continues albeit at a slower rate (and i don't mean to sony, includes oly, fuji et. all)
 
I think they'll get there eventually, I'm just not sure they will with their first foray into a sports mirrorless. But it's only a guess, and what do I know :LOL:

Theyve done pretty damn well with their first FF MILCs, the AF is far from poor from what Ive seen, it will be interesting to see if Sony continues to dominate in AF over the next 2-3 years.
 
and its not as though Nikon don't have enough F lenses :)

I think the migration continues albeit at a slower rate (and i don't mean to sony, includes oly, fuji et. all)
Very true, but there's still gaps that clearly people have been asking for. But as I say, looking at the way the market it going I think Nikon are wise to keep their f-mount going for the time being. That being said, I do question their pricing of it :eek:
 
Theyve done pretty damn well with their first FF MILCs, the AF is far from poor from what Ive seen, it will be interesting to see if Sony continues to dominate in AF over the next 2-3 years.
True, it's very good for a first attempt. I not sure how Sony can dominate in time tbh, it's difficult to see how AF can get much better without it being telepathic and as such everyone else will play catch up. Sure animal AF can be improved a bit, and maybe you can have real time eye-AF tracking activated when just using single point, but I would imagine in the grand scheme of things they are not going to be major struggles. Surely to get much better it needs to be telepathic ;)
 
True, it's very good for a first attempt. I not sure how Sony can dominate in time tbh, it's difficult to see how AF can get much better without it being telepathic and as such everyone else will play catch up. Sure animal AF can be improved a bit, and maybe you can have real time eye-AF tracking activated when just using single point, but I would imagine in the grand scheme of things they are not going to be major struggles. Surely to get much better it needs to be telepathic ;)

Yeah, the A9ii AF system is the same as the A9 so the tech to make it better likely doesnt exist or Sony is working on it. I think the next big thing has to be global shutter.

Realtime tracking point is already pretty small, to get it smaller would be very difficult indeed because it has to analyze the data around that point, not enough data (difference in texture/colour/etc.) and it will be all over the place. Animal eye AF could as you say be improved to match human eye AF.
 
Without an improvement in sensor dynamic range it will be difficult to improve the accuracy of animal AF as an animals iris tends to be darker than humans therefore not much different to the pupil (if I have my biological terminology right!).
 
Without an improvement in sensor dynamic range it will be difficult to improve the accuracy of animal AF as an animals iris tends to be darker than humans therefore not much different to the pupil (if I have my biological terminology right!).

it doesn't need to capture details under the darker iris just need to recognise and focus on it. I feel the challenge is the sheer number of different shaped animals eyes as suppose human eyes rather than dynamic range.
 
Without an improvement in sensor dynamic range it will be difficult to improve the accuracy of animal AF as an animals iris tends to be darker than humans therefore not much different to the pupil (if I have my biological terminology right!).

I dont think in all cases, look at birds, cat family, fish, some dogs etc. Theres a lot of animals that with contrasting iris/pupil. I think perhaps its more the data / shape around the eye and lash that could be tricky (if it uses that data to pinpoint the eye).
 
it doesn't need to capture details under the darker iris just need to recognise and focus on it. I feel the challenge is the sheer number of different shaped animals eyes as suppose human eyes rather than dynamic range.
Fair enough. I thought a factor may be the (lack of) contrast between iris and pupil.
 
Fair enough. I thought a factor may be the (lack of) contrast between iris and pupil.

could well be. I am not disputing it but just thinking which is bigger challenge to overcome. I feel the vast differences in animals is hard to solve. throw insects into the mix and it goes crazy!
 
It’s probably a case of me, once again, not knowing what I’m talking about. Although this attribute has served me well all my working life. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, the A9ii AF system is the same as the A9 so the tech to make it better likely doesnt exist or Sony is working on it. I think the next big thing has to be global shutter.

Realtime tracking point is already pretty small, to get it smaller would be very difficult indeed because it has to analyze the data around that point, not enough data (difference in texture/colour/etc.) and it will be all over the place. Animal eye AF could as you say be improved to match human eye AF.
What I meant is that to get real time tracking eye Af don't you have to be in dynamic wide or something, and therefore are relying on the camera to pick up on the correct set of eyes (if there's more than one person in the frame). What I'd like it to use single point AF to focus on the correct person, and then have it track the eyes across the entire frame. At the moment you can use single point AF with eye AF but it doesn't track across the entire frame. That's how it was on the A7r4 anyway (y)
 
I think also when and if the independent lens manufacturers (such as Sigma, Tamron and Tokina) start producing lenses in native Z (for Nikon) and RF (Canon) mounts, it will inject new life in to these systems. As mentioned above, if companies like Nikon and Canon are scaling back their R&D investment, then despite the cracking start Nikon has already had and will have in the short term with the available native Z lenses, if somehow Sigma and Tamron could not only start filling in the blanks but perhaps also offering cheaper versions of the classics (say 24-70 F2.8, 70-200 F2.8) in a smaller, lighter package, I'm sure there would be a lot more interest in the system.

As it stands (and as I understand it), Nikon isn't very forthcoming with data to allow these manufacturers to do that (and some would argue why should they with the millions they have no doubt already invested), so unless it's relatively straightforward to reverse engineer the tech, and that these manufactures can actually see a viable market for such lenses to make it worth their while, then I don't think unfortunately it's going to happen anytime soon. Whilst the FTZ adapter can of course currently be used to adapt existing 3rd party lenses to the Z format, a lot of people are quite averse to "adapting" lenses, and it is an additional piece of equipment to have to carry with you (or not forget) ?
 
could well be. I am not disputing it but just thinking which is bigger challenge to overcome. I feel the vast differences in animals is hard to solve. throw insects into the mix and it goes crazy!
They may never be able to get it to work for everything, but if they could get it to work with dogs, cats, horses and birds (assuming large enough in the frame) then that'd cover most folk I'd have thought (y)
 
Back
Top