Nikon Z* mirrorless

Sootchucker said:
I think also when and if the independent lens manufacturers (such as Sigma, Tamron and Tokina) start producing lenses in native Z (for Nikon) and RF (Canon) mounts, it will inject new life in to these systems. As mentioned above, if companies like Nikon and Canon are scaling back their R&D investment, then despite the cracking start Nikon has already had and will have in the short term with the available native Z lenses, if somehow Sigma and Tamron could not only start filling in the blanks but perhaps also offering cheaper versions of the classics (say 24-70 F2.8, 70-200 F2.8) in a smaller, lighter package, I'm sure there would be a lot more interest in the system.

As it stands (and as I understand it), Nikon isn't very forthcoming with data to allow these manufacturers to do that (and some would argue why should they with the millions they have no doubt already invested), so unless it's relatively straightforward to reverse engineer the tech, and that these manufactures can actually see a viable market for such lenses to make it worth their while, then I don't think unfortunately it's going to happen anytime soon. Whilst the FTZ adapter can of course currently be used to adapt existing 3rd party lenses to the Z format, a lot of people are quite averse to "adapting" lenses, and it is an additional piece of equipment to have to carry with you (or not forget) ?
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I don't think Nikon's share is big enough for Tamron and Sigma to get involved yet tbh. I can understand wanting to not open up their lenses to others as that's where the most profit is.
 
I have to say the animal AF on my Panasonic G9 works much better than i ever thought it would, so I don't think we are too far away from really excellent animal AF anyway. Sony of course already has it, but (at least according to a friend of mine who shoots exclusively Sony), it's not perfect yet.
 
snerkler said:
What I meant is that to get real time tracking eye Af don't you have to be in dynamic wide or something, and therefore are relying on the camera to pick up on the correct set of eyes (if there's more than one person in the frame). What I'd like it to use single point AF to focus on the correct person, and then have it track the eyes across the entire frame. At the moment you can use single point AF with eye AF but it doesn't track across the entire frame. That's how it was on the A7r4 anyway (y)
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Real time tracking uses all AF modes {at least with the A9} (wide, zone, center, flexible spot sml, expanded flexible spot), it is its own tracking mode that can include eye AF when eyes are detected. Faces can be registered, so eyes of that person will also register via unique facial features and prioritize.

When you real time track a chosen subject by placing the box over a facial feature, the camera will track that face/eyes all the way across the frame. Even if there are other people in the frame, its very clever at identifying and tracking the chosen subject.

These cameras offer a ton of customization and AF modes.
 
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Sootchucker said:
I think also when and if the independent lens manufacturers (such as Sigma, Tamron and Tokina) start producing lenses in native Z (for Nikon) and RF (Canon) mounts, it will inject new life in to these systems. As mentioned above, if companies like Nikon and Canon are scaling back their R&D investment, then despite the cracking start Nikon has already had and will have in the short term with the available native Z lenses, if somehow Sigma and Tamron could not only start filling in the blanks but perhaps also offering cheaper versions of the classics (say 24-70 F2.8, 70-200 F2.8) in a smaller, lighter package, I'm sure there would be a lot more interest in the system.

As it stands (and as I understand it), Nikon isn't very forthcoming with data to allow these manufacturers to do that (and some would argue why should they with the millions they have no doubt already invested), so unless it's relatively straightforward to reverse engineer the tech, and that these manufactures can actually see a viable market for such lenses to make it worth their while, then I don't think unfortunately it's going to happen anytime soon. Whilst the FTZ adapter can of course currently be used to adapt existing 3rd party lenses to the Z format, a lot of people are quite averse to "adapting" lenses, and it is an additional piece of equipment to have to carry with you (or not forget) ?
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Absolutely! That could only be beneficial to Nikon. When I first got my Z6 I spoke to the UK distributors of both Tamron and Sigma to pose this question, but the reply was that as far as they knew their Japanese head offices had no intention of doing so. Let’s hope they change their minds. But it’s a vicious circle - if, say, Tamron see lowish sales of the Z they won’t make lenses to fit them. And Nikon sales are lower because 3rd party lenses aren’t available. The only glimmer of light is Samyang.
 
twist said:
Real time tracking uses all AF modes {at least with the A9} (wide, zone, center, flexible spot sml, expanded flexible spot), it is its own tracking mode that can include eye AF when eyes are detected. Faces can be registered, so eyes of that person will also register via unique facial features and prioritize.

When you real time track a chosen subject by placing the box over a facial feature, the camera will track that face/eyes all the way across the frame. Even if there are other people in the frame, its very clever at identifying and tracking the chosen subject.

These cameras offer a ton of customization and AF modes.
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Ahh cool. We couldn't figure that out on the A7R4, and I've not seen a youtube video where they've used a box to select the subject first but sounds like Sony have sorted it. I wish the A9-II was a grand cheaper ;)
 
Sootchucker said:
I have to say the animal AF on my Panasonic G9 works much better than i ever thought it would, so I don't think we are too far away from really excellent animal AF anyway. Sony of course already has it, but (at least according to a friend of mine who shoots exclusively Sony), it's not perfect yet.
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I didn't realise you had the G9 but have just seen your signature with all your kit, just a few cameras then ;)
 
twist said:
Real time tracking uses all AF modes {at least with the A9} (wide, zone, center, flexible spot sml, expanded flexible spot), it is its own tracking mode that can include eye AF when eyes are detected. Faces can be registered, so eyes of that person will also register via unique facial features and prioritize.
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snerkler said:
Ahh cool. We couldn't figure that out on the A7R4, and I've not seen a youtube video where they've used a box to select the subject first but sounds like Sony have sorted it. I wish the A9-II was a grand cheaper ;)
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@rookies and I figured this out a while back on Sony thread. A9 and A9II have real time tracking in all modes inc. animals.
A7RIV does not have it for animals.
 
snerkler said:
Ahh cool. We couldn't figure that out on the A7R4, and I've not seen a youtube video where they've used a box to select the subject first but sounds like Sony have sorted it. I wish the A9-II was a grand cheaper ;)
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Just for you.... nice and lo-res with added compression, phone through EVF, but it shows what it needs to.

A9, real time tracking, flexible spot small, animal eye af...


https://flic.kr/p/2ifPJmH
 
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nandbytes said:
@rookies and I figured this out a while back on Sony thread. A9 and A9II have real time tracking in all modes inc. animals.
A7RIV does not have it for animals.
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I couldn't et it to do it on humans :LOL: If I used expanded flexible spot I could AF using that and if the subject near the AF point had eyes then it would AF on the eyes, but as soon as the eyes weren't in that part of the frame anymore it stopped 'tracking' the eyes and just focussed on what was ever on the AF point (which was still in the original position that I set it to).
twist said:
Just for you.... nice and lo-res with added compression, phone through EVF, but it shows what it needs to.

A9, real time tracking, flexible spot small, animal eye af...


https://flic.kr/p/2ifPJmH
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Thanks, although that's not quite what I had in mind. That looks to me that you're just engaging (whole frame) eye AF when in a single point AF mode, rather than using a single AF point to focus on the eyes and saying "now track these", if you get my drift? In that video you don't position the AF point over the cat yourself and if you had two cats positioned the same distance away from the camera how can you be sure that the camera picks up on the correct cat? If you're in single point mode as above but moved the point over the correct cat first and then engaged eye-af would the camera pick up on the cat where the AF point was, or would it pick either?
 
snerkler said:
I couldn't et it to do it on humans :LOL: If I used expanded flexible spot I could AF using that and if the subject near the AF point had eyes then it would AF on the eyes, but as soon as the eyes weren't in that part of the frame anymore it stopped 'tracking' the eyes and just focussed on what was ever on the AF point (which was still in the original position that I set it to).
Thanks, although that's not quite what I had in mind. That looks to me that you're just engaging (whole frame) eye AF when in a single point AF mode, rather than using a single AF point to focus on the eyes and saying "now track these", if you get my drift? In that video you don't position the AF point over the cat yourself and if you had two cats positioned the same distance away from the camera how can you be sure that the camera picks up on the correct cat? If you're in single point mode as above but moved the point over the correct cat first and then engaged eye-af would the camera pick up on the cat where the AF point was, or would it pick either?
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I can move the point anywhere in the frame and it'll track that point, if eye AF is on it will track the eyes, if its a plant it will track the plant. It tracks whatever you tell it to track. If there is a black cat and a white cat and I want it to track the black cat I place the point on the black cats face and it will only track the black cats eyes. It does what you're asking and more.

The video showed what happens when eye tracking priority is on and it finds an eye even if I haven't confirmed AF yet, so it's not just looking in the single point area but also constantly across the frame. Very clever.
 
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snerkler said:
I couldn't et it to do it on humans :LOL: If I used expanded flexible spot I could AF using that and if the subject near the AF point had eyes then it would AF on the eyes, but as soon as the eyes weren't in that part of the frame anymore it stopped 'tracking' the eyes and just focussed on what was ever on the AF point (which was still in the original position that I set it to).
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I don't think you had it setup properly in that case. Now this is just turning into a Sony thread! You should really ask such questions on the actual sony thread lol.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn0fh4XHpLY
 
twist said:
I can move the point anywhere in the frame and it'll track that point, if eye AF is on it will track the eyes, if its a plant it will track the plant. It tracks whatever you tell it to track. If there is a black cat and a white cat and I want it to track the black cat I place the point on the black cats face and it will only track the black cats eyes. It does what you're asking and more.

The video showed what happens when eye tracking priority is on and it finds an eye even if I haven't confirmed AF yet, so it's not just looking in the single point area but also constantly across the frame. Very clever.
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Wow, yes very clever (y)
nandbytes said:
I don't think you had it setup properly in that case. Now this is just turning into a Sony thread! You should really ask such questions on the actual sony thread lol.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn0fh4XHpLY
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I'm always derailing threads, they should be used to it by now ;)
 
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They're still not selling?

I'd have thought that the Nikon name alone would be enough to sell even an average product, not that I'm saying the Z kit is average, I'm just saying the Nikon brand is a strong one and kit should sell if it's even half decent or is the problem that people no longer see Nikon as the/a leading brand? Or maybe the market has just accepted that Sony is the market leader?

PS.
If I had a Zx I'd stick a Nippon Kogaku 50mm f2 or 35mm f2.8 on it and be happy.

Jnzf7HW.jpg
 
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twist said:
Not just Argos
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Probably not, and Nikon will be offering incentives to retailers. But show me a retailer which is not having to increase their turnover at the expense of profits. In any sector.
However, it hasn’t yet stopped my Z6 from working. ;)
 
This is mute to the discussion but when I picked up my new a7r3 from WEX yesterday I had a good long test of both the z6 and Canon’s R & RP. While judging purely between these models I would have come away with the Canon Eos R. Whilst the z6 is ergonomically great in the hands as previous posts have suggested I would take the ergonomics of the R, this sat better in my grip and the balance felt better than the z6. I personally also thought the menu’s and the button placement was better. Canon‘s R&D team are producing some interesting new Camera’s while Nikon’s are going backwards (again only my opinion). Whilst I couldn’t quite justify the cost of the R and lens combo I would have liked if choosing Canon it gave me food for thought and after also chatting with the Canon Rep who informed me that an update to the R may be out later this year, I will have a serious look if I choose to switch systems.....
 
Diamonddec said:
Z6 on "clearance" at Argos for £1300.... https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8379843?utm_campaign=11553376&cmpid=COJUN&cjsurferid=412704029678750890:dqjv3R7UB2qk&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=Pepper+Deals+LTD&utm_source=CJ&cjevent=ed1d10843aa011ea823201940a18050f&catalogId=10001&storeId=10151&_$ja=tsid:11674|prd:1546795&utm_term=1453124&referredURL=https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8379843&referrer=COJUN
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I don't need one but for that price I'm tempted to buy one anyway :LOL:
Gandalf said:
This is mute to the discussion but when I picked up my new a7r3 from WEX yesterday I had a good long test of both the z6 and Canon’s R & RP. While judging purely between these models I would have come away with the Canon Eos R. Whilst the z6 is ergonomically great in the hands as previous posts have suggested I would take the ergonomics of the R, this sat better in my grip and the balance felt better than the z6. I personally also thought the menu’s and the button placement was better. Canon‘s R&D team are producing some interesting new Camera’s while Nikon’s are going backwards (again only my opinion). Whilst I couldn’t quite justify the cost of the R and lens combo I would have liked if choosing Canon it gave me food for thought and after also chatting with the Canon Rep who informed me that an update to the R may be out later this year, I will have a serious look if I choose to switch systems.....
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I like the Canon R's, but it's the lenses that put me off, although I like the compact nature of the 70-200mm f2.8.
 
snerkler said:
I don't need one but for that price I'm tempted to buy one anyway :LOL:
I like the Canon R's, but it's the lenses that put me off, although I like the compact nature of the 70-200mm f2.8.
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I (for my needs) think the canon lenses look ace but I’ve no idea about how good their af is compared to Sony. I’m guessing I would have heard if it was good...
 
Brazo said:
I (for my needs) think the canon lenses look ace but I’ve no idea about how good their af is compared to Sony. I’m guessing I would have heard if it was good...
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By all accounts Canon AF looks good. The Canon lenses look great, if you have a big wallet, at least with the Z’s there are some moderate options, such as the 50mm f1.8.
 
woof woof said:
I'd have thought that the Nikon name alone would be enough to sell even an average product, not that I'm saying the Z kit is average, I'm just saying the Nikon brand is a strong one and kit should sell if it's even half decent or is the problem that people no longer see Nikon as the/a leading brand? Or maybe the market has just accepted that Sony is the market leader?
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I'd suggest that although Nikon kit is great, the Z6 isn't going to work for an impulse buyer who might be swayed by the name, leaving the enthusiast (since it's an enthusiast-targetted camera) who will be adding up the various pros and cons to see which camera is technically better before making the choice. There will be a few who will have decided it's the right camera for them on it's own merits, but given the competition AND the need to change lenses (when I had Nikon almost all my glass was incompatible with the adapter) it's hard to see it making enough sales.
 
They simply have to smash it out of the park with their next Z camera. A true D850 + D500 mirrorless with outstanding autofocus. I know it only took them until a few years ago to perfect the DSLR and asking them to match it in the mirrorless in only a few years might seem like much, but it's exactly what's needed. I continually hope that there's another Z6/Z7 firmware around the corner that's gonna fix the focus problems before they forget about them and move on to the next iteration.
 
wilt said:
They simply have to smash it out of the park with their next Z camera. A true D850 + D500 mirrorless with outstanding autofocus. I know it only took them until a few years ago to perfect the DSLR and asking them to match it in the mirrorless in only a few years might seem like much, but it's exactly what's needed. I continually hope that there's another Z6/Z7 firmware around the corner that's gonna fix the focus problems before they forget about them and move on to the next iteration.
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As a matter of interest, what problems are you having with your Z6?
 
Stephen L said:
Sounds like you’ve got a faulty one. Mine doesn’t exhibit any of those characteristics. Mind you, I’ve never tried eye af.
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Both Z’s show EVF lag when panning etc, refresh rate is only 50hz iirc.
 
wilt said:
EVF lag, Shutter lag, auto focus has a mind of its own. Eye af inconsistent.
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I was looking at getting a Z6 but that really puts me off. I'm going to pull the trigger on a 2nd camera body shortly, and it looks like either another D750, a D810 or an XH-1. I'd love to go into the mirrorless world, but not keen on Sony.

Here's one fo the reasons - a lovely shot with live view on my D750 but focus is just pants in this mode on a DSLR - boo. This image is just about acceptable - but wish it had focused more accurately - it's a tad soft. Mirrorless as far as I know performs much faster in live view?

JSC_8630 by Gilbo B, on Flickr
 
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