Nikon Z* mirrorless

OK I'll say it then. I'm not kidding about being kicked out of a FB group because I haven't drunk enough cool aid though...

So let me firstly give some background. I've shot Nikon DSLR's since the D70 came out. And quite quickly ended up with the more professional ranges. I shot weddings with a D3 ( which I pre-ordered because I couldn't put down my D2x ) and a D700 as backup for quite a few years, but eventually wound up the business and sold all my bodies and moved to just a D750. I kind of drifted away from photography then due to lack of interest. When the Z6/7 were announced I started to pick up my D750 again and decided to move to a Z6. So I got the Z6 very early after the pre-orders.

So I got my Z6 and mid May I was asked to shoot a friends wedding in Cyprus to capture more candid stuff as they'd only paid for a basic photo package with the destination wedding package. So I shot this nearly exclusively on the 105/1.4 with V1 firmware. Quite frankly it was awful on V1 FW with lockups and focus all over the place but I managed. But after enjoying it, and getting loads of positive comments I started to consider getting back into the wedding business. So I decided I needed to shoot a lot with the z6 to learn it, assuming it was me.

Oh, let me also preface this by saying I have always used back button focus and AF-C. I've always shot every SLR since the button was there.

Now V2.00 came along not long after and everyone was raving about it. So let me get this one out of the way first... But keep reading after honestly. I ran home, uploaded V2.00 and immediately tested eye-af and... urggg, eye-lash af :puke: Now it's not a often you expose it badly by shooting close with a 1.4, but I could see it with the 24-70/4 lens just as easy. You have to stop down a fair bit to not find it noticeable. Interestingly I've seen loads of youtube videos trying to claim it's fine, but in most of them the examples clearly show the same thing. Anyway you can cope with that, shoot at f8 and it'll all be fine haha but eye-af gets confused quite a lot. Have people in the background, or people at different distances from each other, and quite often it seems to get badly confused. So I don't use it, it's turned off completely.

Dynamic-AF I have seen issues with. So there is no 3d tracking or anything similar, so dynamic af seems ok if the subject isn't moving towards or away from you, but I've noticed it can get confused easily by things in the background when a subject is moving towards or away from you. I was shooting a 5-a-side football match by professional footballers for a charity thing, and it often seemed to get confused and focus on something behind the subject, even though the focus box in the centre was on the subject.

Now this isn't a speed issue. I don't subscribe to the idea that the Z6/7 are not fast enough, some claim it's no good for sport because it's too slow, it's not slow. It's that it seems to get confused, and if you look carefully you will always find something in sharp focus, just not what you were pointing it at.

So I tend to use single point mode exclusively now as it's the most reliable. But even single point in AF-C has issues. I've had a couple of instances where it point blank refuses to focus on the target. I was trying to take a photo of a robin at the Eden project, sat in a bush right in front of me, the focus point completely on the robin, but it wouldn't focus on it. In fact it focused on the things through the bush. I even put my hand in front of the lens, focused on my hand, then back on the robin and it did the same. Maybe it has a Robin phobia. haha

But more often that not I find some shots just not in sharp focus. Close but not in focus. My main subjects tend to be people ( but not models ), who don't hold position while you take a photo, they move a little bit and often when you look at the photos they're just not sharply focused. Now if I use AF-S, it gets it right pretty much every time, but I don't use AF-S if the subject is moving as it won't work.

So for me, it's not that the speed is lacking, it's not that it can't be accurate ( it is in AF-S ), it's that there are bugs in AF-C mode algorithms. I also have a suspicion that the AF area is too large, and I'd love to have a Z7 to compare as that has smaller AF points because it has higher resolution, and actually when you look at the size of the sony points they are much smaller. The Z line just isn't as reliable as say a D750 on AF. I'd say the Z6 is a lot faster to focus than the D750, but not 100% reliable at the same time.

So switch to Sony I have people tell me. But I got the chance to borrow an A7ii and quite frankly I hated it. The feel, menus, button and everything about the physical body I didn't like. But the AF was fantastic. I haven't tried the A7R4 or an A9 but they are supposedly better. But I wouldn't switch.

So what I'm doing is putting my faith in Nikon that they will fix it. There's a new FW update coming at some point for the raw video, I'm hoping this will have AF improvements too. In the mean time, I over shoot. I over shoot a lot. I use bursts of shots and then I end up with less missed shots as pretty much every time you can ignore the soft image as you have a sharp one to make up for it. I've switched to nearly all Z line lenses, because they're stupidly good, and just waiting for the AF performance to catch up a bit.

Edit: Sorry that was a lot longer than I planned it to be, bit of an essay sorry :(
Thanks, very interesting. It’s interesting what you’re saying about the AF getting confused by backgrounds as I found the D850 did this more often than the D750, which didn’t really do it at all. I remember SK66 mentioning this on the D5 too and having lengthy discussions with Nikon regarding the issue. Maybe Nikon need to revert back to the 51 point AF system ;)
I’ve rarely used the AF tracking modes (Dynamic and 3D etc) as always found single point AF-C gives me better results. As for eye-AF it’s a nice feature but it’s not ready for pro wedding work imo. Not being able to select the face yourself initially (ie through single point) is no good when you’re in a room full of people, it’s pot luck if it will fall on the right face(s) a lot of the time.

It’s a good first effort but I’d be surprised if Nikon can squeeze out any more significant improvement in the AF tbh, but that’s just a hunch. I think we need to wait for the gen 2’s/Z9 for them to bridge the gap to Sony. I’m really excited by this system though, I think there’s great potential.
 
I never really understood the people who buy things knowing their performance isn't up to task then hoping manufacturer will fix it via. fw one fine day then complaining when it doesn't happen quickly or happen at all. When i buy cameras I buy them based on their current state and not a firmware update that may or may not happen especially when no such thing has been promised.

As for shooting weddings or professionally, not sure why people risk it with single card slots!! seems crazy to me but there you go.

Good luck to you but this line of thinking does not make much sense to me tbh!

But I didn't buy it knowing the performance wasn't up to the task, it was new at the time. They've already made a significant update with V2.00 firmware.

As for the single card slot, that's not an issue for me. I shot weddings with single card slots for a long time, and I know many wedding photographers still using D700's for weddings because they are still hard to beat for IQ. The card slot thing is blown up by people who should know better in my opinion.
 
Thanks, very interesting. It’s interesting what you’re saying about the AF getting confused by backgrounds as I found the D850 did this more often than the D750, which didn’t really do it at all. I remember SK66 mentioning this on the D5 too and having lengthy discussions with Nikon regarding the issue. Maybe Nikon need to revert back to the 51 point AF system ;)
I’ve rarely used the AF tracking modes (Dynamic and 3D etc) as always found single point AF-C gives me better results. As for eye-AF it’s a nice feature but it’s not ready for pro wedding work imo. Not being able to select the face yourself initially (ie through single point) is no good when you’re in a room full of people, it’s pot luck if it will fall on the right face(s) a lot of the time.

It’s a good first effort but I’d be surprised if Nikon can squeeze out any more significant improvement in the AF tbh, but that’s just a hunch. I think we need to wait for the gen 2’s/Z9 for them to bridge the gap to Sony. I’m really excited by this system though, I think there’s great potential.

I think Nikon are showing the potential with the lenses. You cannot in any way complain about the lens that are available. Other than them being expensive, but I'd argue the image quality justifies the prices, they are simply stunning.

It's just the AF performance that is lacking a little. Interesting that the 850 and D5 might have similar ish issues with AF-C, I didn't know that.
 
But I didn't buy it knowing the performance wasn't up to the task, it was new at the time. They've already made a significant update with V2.00 firmware.

As for the single card slot, that's not an issue for me. I shot weddings with single card slots for a long time, and I know many wedding photographers still using D700's for weddings because they are still hard to beat for IQ. The card slot thing is blown up by people who should know better in my opinion.

but you knew better after using it but you still choose to use it ;)

many years ago cars didn't have seat belts, so are they not needed now? cyclists should also stop wearing helmets and hi-viz jackets because I never had problems with accidents. in fact when was the last house fire or break in. May be cancel the house insurance, tell you want never had a car accident either may be I should cancel car insurance too.
It's not blown up at all IMO, there are plenty of card failure stories out there. In my opinion it's underplayed by careless photographer with only logical explanation to me being they couldn't care less about their customers and service because they are willing to risk once in a lifetime photos of their customers.

Also D700 is well beaten for IQ by many APS-C bodies these days and in fact even m43. So that's simply not true that its hard to beat for IQ. (that is not to say D700 is a bad body, it was top notch during its time)
 
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Most of the people I see really making a fuss over the single card slots are currently shooting with body using dual SD cards, which are probably the most unreliable memory cards ever. Or one of them is an SD card slot in most dual slot cameras. I've also seen cards corrupted by the camera itself, and actually a bug in FW corrupt both cards, had it happen once with my D3. I also know a photographer that currently shoots with a 7D and had the camera corrupt both cards mid shoot. Luckily it was a corporate shoot for portraits and so everything could be reshot, although still very embarrassing and he ended up giving a hefty discount.

Having dual card slots doesn't mean your safe.
 
I think this is many people's first impression after switching from larger dslr to any of the ML bodies. I remember when I switched from the D800 to the Fuji X-T1 and wondering if I'd done the right thing. Took me no time to adjust once I'd gotten over that initial 'down size' shock. Of course back then, bigger was always thought to be better, not so much anymore.
I am still planing on keeping the d850 to run along side the z6 until the next gen comes out so might take a bit of time to get used to both at the same time
 
of course it doesn't mean you are safe, its still better than having one card.
So you yourself know of cases where card can fail and of course both cards could fail and even the cameras could fail. But chance of overall failure to deliver is halved compared to having a single cards. Most folks shoot with two bodies (sometimes they even carry 3!). One of the reasons being they provide a back up but of course all 2 or 3 could fail!

Talking about camera bodies corrupting SD cards due to bugs (we were just discussing this couple days back). its more likely for such bugs to manifest with XQDs as they are rather new compared to the old SD cards which has been mostly ironed out by now. So I see more a reason to have two cards with XQD cards than SD cards.

As above a lot of people still use F-mount bodies like D850 and D750 because they are more reliable and rightly so IMO.
 
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hope the next gen z8/z9 is bigger my hand are big he he:giggle:
I have big hands too but bizarrely prefer the smaller bodies, it feels more natural and stable to me to wrap my little finger under the camera o_O
 
of course it doesn't mean you are safe, its still better than having one card.
So you yourself know of cases where card can fail and of course both cards could fail and even the cameras could fail. But chance of overall failure to deliver is halved compared to having a single cards. Most folks shoot with two bodies (sometimes they even carry 3!). One of the reasons being they provide a back up but of course all 2 or 3 could fail!

Talking about camera bodies corrupting SD cards due to bugs (we were just discussing this couple days back). its more likely for such bugs to manifest with XQDs as they are rather new compared to the old SD cards which has been mostly ironed out by now. So I see more a reason to have two cards with XQD cards than SD cards.

As above a lot of people still use F-mount bodies like D850 and D750 because they are more reliable and rightly so IMO.
TBH I think this purely boils down to the individual and how paranoid you are. I know several pros, and one very well known pro who have cameras with dual slots but only use one card. I must admit I was very surprised by this initially but then I started to think that my own paranoia about a single card slot was born out of hanging about on this forum, prior to that I never gave it a thought and have spent my life before shooting with either a single roll of film or a single card.

In an ideal world I think I would prefer dual slots, but I also understand why some don’t feel it necessary. With my previous Nikons I shot one card raw and one jpeg as it slowed it down too much shooting raw plus raw, I felt jpeg was better than nothing.
 
There's probably as much chance of the shutter mechanism failing as your xqd or sd card. Up until 3-4 years ago Sony only had one slot on their cameras too, didn't seem to be a big issue then.
 
TBH I think this purely boils down to the individual and how paranoid you are. I know several pros, and one very well known pro who have cameras with dual slots but only use one card. I must admit I was very surprised by this initially but then I started to think that my own paranoia about a single card slot was born out of hanging about on this forum, prior to that I never gave it a thought and have spent my life before shooting with either a single roll of film or a single card.

In an ideal world I think I would prefer dual slots, but I also understand why some don’t feel it necessary. With my previous Nikons I shot one card raw and one jpeg as it slowed it down too much shooting raw plus raw, I felt jpeg was better than nothing.

Indeed jpg is better than nothing and that's what I used to do also for speed. In fact a lot of sports shooters do the same since they need to hand over the card so they have over their jpg card.

Single roll of film is clearly not the same as single card slot. And it has nothing to do with paranoia, and more to do with carelessness or over confidence. There is no need to risk it when dual slots are so widely available.

Most professionals also have minimum of two bodies and backup being one of the reasons. Is that being paranoid or prudent :p
 
Very interesting read for the past few posts.

Single card never bothered me to be honest when I did have duel card I didn’t really take advantage of it anyway. This most probably down that I am not a wedding tog.

The AF I am quite impress with it with Nikon first attempt of FF Mirrorless I have not had any miss shot yet so that why I am quite happy and impress and this coming from a a7iii. Ok the Sony might have had better eye af and animal eye af this one thing I do miss at times but it not a game changer for me.

I must say that Nikon have made a brilliant attempt with their z lens quality the 50 and 24-70 f4 are both cracking lens and sharp for there money.
 
Very interesting read for the past few posts.

Single card never bothered me to be honest when I did have duel card I didn’t really take advantage of it anyway. This most probably down that I am not a wedding tog.

The AF I am quite impress with it with Nikon first attempt of FF Mirrorless I have not had any miss shot yet so that why I am quite happy and impress and this coming from a a7iii. Ok the Sony might have had better eye af and animal eye af this one thing I do miss at times but it not a game changer for me.

I must say that Nikon have made a brilliant attempt with their z lens quality the 50 and 24-70 f4 are both cracking lens and sharp for there money.
I used to shoot with A7RII and A7 before that all had single slots. A7 has worst AF than Z6/7.

But just as you I am not a wedding tog so single card slots don't bother me a huge lot.
But if I ever did weddings before A7(R)III came out I'd have gone with Nikon D750 no questions. It's simply reliable and flash system is just great and works which is good for business and customers
 
And it has nothing to do with paranoia, and more to do with carelessness or over confidence. There is no need to risk it when dual slots are so widely available.
That's obviously your opinion though and not fact. The fact there are pros that shoot only with one card and do not buy into the paranoia shows that not everyone shares your concern/opinion. I don't believe it's carelessness or overconfidence either, I think that's unfair on them to judge like that.

Most professionals also have minimum of two bodies and backup being one of the reasons. Is that being paranoid or prudent :p
It's a choice. I've always backed up through paranoia, and that includes having backup drives for my computer, but I am the ultimate "what if" guy. Many people don't bother and have never lost photos. In fact to date I've never had a failure or lost photos either.

Everyone's got an opinion on this, but it doesn't mean one is right or wrong.
 
That's obviously your opinion though and not fact. The fact there are pros that shoot only with one card and do not buy into the paranoia shows that not everyone shares your concern/opinion. I don't believe it's carelessness or overconfidence either, I think that's unfair on them to judge like that.

It's a choice. I've always backed up through paranoia, and that includes having backup drives for my computer, but I am the ultimate "what if" guy. Many people don't bother and have never lost photos. In fact to date I've never had a failure or lost photos either.

Everyone's got an opinion on this, but it doesn't mean one is right or wrong.

I don't think it's unfair at all when those pictures are someone's once in a lifetime.
There is no justification whatsoever to have not had two cards when it's so easily available! Heck a D750 is much cheaper and more reliable than Z6. So only explanation to use such bodies is either carelessness or over confidence that nothing will go wrong.

Well if you call it paranoia that cyclists wear helmets and lights then do be it. I call it being prudent. I have never had an accident on my bike so should I go around cyclist forums telling everyone to stop being paranoid lol.
This is the same to and in this case you are affecting someone else, at least in case of cyclists you are mostly harming yourself.
 
[QUOTE="snerkler,

It’s a good first effort but I’d be surprised if Nikon can squeeze out any more significant improvement in the AF tbh, but that’s just a hunch. I think we need to wait for the gen 2’s/Z9 for them to bridge the gap to Sony. I’m really excited by this system though, I think there’s great potential.[/QUOTE]

I do wonder if Nikon understands what can be done to a camera via firmware updates :rolleyes: i feel they think it's only for correcting cockups in the programming.
They should look at what others are doing via firmware updates, Olympus for a start, then again though we could just buy the next new model.
 
I don't think it's unfair at all when those pictures are someone's once in a lifetime.
There is no justification whatsoever to have not had two cards when it's so easily available! Heck a D750 is much cheaper and more reliable than Z6. So only explanation to use such bodies is either carelessness or over confidence that nothing will go wrong.

Well if you call it paranoia that cyclists wear helmets and lights then do be it. I call it being prudent. I have never had an accident on my bike so should I go around cyclist forums telling everyone to stop being paranoid lol.
This is the same to and in this case you are affecting someone else, at least in case of cyclists you are mostly harming yourself.
As I say, you have your opinion (y)

For the record if I was doing it professionally I would want dual slots too, but that's my choice/preference and not a rule that everyone should follow just because I feel it makes sense (y)
 
I suspect the sample people who can ‘manage’ on a single card slot would jump at the chance of having two.

I recently bought a brand new D3500 for (non tog) work and the first thing it did was corrupt all the images on the sd card.
 
I suspect the sample people who can ‘manage’ on a single card slot would jump at the chance of having two.

I recently bought a brand new D3500 for (non tog) work and the first thing it did was corrupt all the images on the sd card.
As I said previously, I know pros that only use one card despite having dual slots. Seems odd to me, but it shows they're out there ;)
 
The biggest mistake Nikon made going one card was to give people something to whitter on about, if you don't want one card buy something
 
The biggest mistake Nikon made going one card was to give people something to whitter on about, if you don't want one card buy something
I must admit I find it a bit strange. Ok they're billing the Z6 as an enthusiast camera, but the Z7 is billed as a pro camera (Nikon's listing not mine ;)). Now I've heard it said that there's not enough room for two slots, but that doesn't make sense to me being as they built this camera from scratch. This and the lack of functional battery grip have completely baffled me since launch. Now neither bother me directly and I'm really happy with the Z7, I love it, however that still doesn't prevent me by being completely baffled by Nikon's decision process to build a brand new "pro level" camera with one card slot and without the capacity for a functional grip. Bizarre :eek: ;)
 
I just wish Nikon would make the Z50 users manual available :(
 
As I said previously, I know pros that only use one card despite having dual slots. Seems odd to me, but it shows they're out there ;)


I brought up the 1 card slot topic a few weeks ago and fortunately I've never had an issue.

God forbid they lost the images. It would be quite an uncomfortable conversation with the client about why they thought it not necessary to use the available 2nd slot. I can't begin to think how they would justify that.

To ignore re the option of using a 2nd avialable able slot seems a bit weird.
 
I brought up the 1 card slot topic a few weeks ago and fortunately I've never had an issue.

God forbid they lost the images. It would be quite an uncomfortable conversation with the client about why they thought it not necessary to use the available 2nd slot. I can't begin to think how they would justify that.

To ignore re the option of using a 2nd avialable able slot seems a bit weird.
I do wonder how many no photographers are aware of dual card slots though?
 
I do wonder how many no photographers are aware of dual card slots though?

true. but anyone would probably ask "is there no form of back up?".

personally, if i had hired someone to shoot my wedding or childs christening or such like for example and they lost the photos i would be doing a full "drains up" exercise as to how it has happened. if i found out they had the option to pop a 2nd card in the camera and chose not to, i would crucify them.
 
I must admit I find it a bit strange. Ok they're billing the Z6 as an enthusiast camera, but the Z7 is billed as a pro camera (Nikon's listing not mine ;)). Now I've heard it said that there's not enough room for two slots, but that doesn't make sense to me being as they built this camera from scratch. This and the lack of functional battery grip have completely baffled me since launch. Now neither bother me directly and I'm really happy with the Z7, I love it, however that still doesn't prevent me by being completely baffled by Nikon's decision process to build a brand new "pro level" camera with one card slot and without the capacity for a functional grip. Bizarre :eek: ;)
I am sure the mk2 will have dual card slots, able to take a grip and improved af.*

Then I won’t be able to resist!

* Not saying it’s bad.... just room for improvement!
 
true. but anyone would probably ask "is there no form of back up?".

personally, if i had hired someone to shoot my wedding or childs christening or such like for example and they lost the photos i would be doing a full "drains up" exercise as to how it has happened. if i found out they had the option to pop a 2nd card in the camera and chose not to, i would crucify them.

exactly!

my wife didn't about know about dual cards etc (she does now), I remember when I lost my ebay advert shots and started reshooting them, got asked 101 questions:
"why are you shooting these again?"
"is your camera broken?"
"did you know the SD card was corrupt?"
"has this happened before?"
"why didn't you backup the images?"
"can't you use recovery tools?"

And if this was our wedding I am sure she'd have strangled they guy lol!
 
Got my Sony A7III being collected tomorrow and going to buy a Z6 with the 24-70 F4 am I mad lol.

I only really shoot hobbyist stuff landscape architecture and I have done a couple of model shoots. When I can afford it I will then get the 70-300 AFP and the 50 S 1.8 and may get the older cheaper 85MM 1.8.

Anyone made the move?
 
Got my Sony A7III being collected tomorrow and going to buy a Z6 with the 24-70 F4 am I mad lol.

I only really shoot hobbyist stuff landscape architecture and I have done a couple of model shoots. When I can afford it I will then get the 70-300 AFP and the 50 S 1.8 and may get the older cheaper 85MM 1.8.

Anyone made the move?

If you can get the 50mm now. At just over £300 I can’t see it ever being cheaper. Plus it’s just a stunner.
 
Got my Sony A7III being collected tomorrow and going to buy a Z6 with the 24-70 F4 am I mad lol.

I only really shoot hobbyist stuff landscape architecture and I have done a couple of model shoots. When I can afford it I will then get the 70-300 AFP and the 50 S 1.8 and may get the older cheaper 85MM 1.8.

Anyone made the move?

Me and no regret love the z6 much better than the a7iii imho
 
Thanks Andrew good to know.

The handling of the camera etc is spot on. The files it produce are better and easier work with but that me.

AF if not had a problem with what I’ve taken. Ok eye af might not be as quick looking at reviews but I’ve been fine with it.
 
Got my Sony A7III being collected tomorrow and going to buy a Z6 with the 24-70 F4 am I mad lol.

I only really shoot hobbyist stuff landscape architecture and I have done a couple of model shoots. When I can afford it I will then get the 70-300 AFP and the 50 S 1.8 and may get the older cheaper 85MM 1.8.

Anyone made the move?
You'll love it! As regards the 70-300 P, I have that. However, as tele shooting isn't my thing I've only had it out once! Might think about selling it, if someone put a Wanted ad up.
 
The handling of the camera etc is spot on. The files it produce are better and easier work with but that me.

AF if not had a problem with what I’ve taken. Ok eye af might not be as quick looking at reviews but I’ve been fine with it.

But can it take photos of a kid on a zip line coming towards you using a 35 1.4 @ 1.4 @ 10fps and nail pretty much every shot on the eyes?
 
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But can it take photos of a kid on a zip line coming towards you using a 35 1.4 @ 1.4 @ 10fps and nail pretty much every shot on the eyes?

Maybe not @ 10 fsp possibly @ 12 fsp
 
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