Not in my back yard ... surely? *We have cubs!*

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Last night we had fog and quite a bit of the video was affected but the Badger spend the early part of the night hoovering up all of the food, much to the disgust of the Fox cub who seems fairly unfazed by his presence, though wisely a little cautious.
The food bowl was cleared by the Badger, but the bowl did fight back! :LOL:


 
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You just need a voice over from Bernard Cribbins… "What is it? I'll get it, I'll get it!" :LOL:
 
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I wish I'd seen this thread a week ago before I ordered an Apeman H70.

It did capture a hedgehog on its second night out in the garden which was a pleasant surprise to us in our urban location.

Things have gone downhill since then. I noticed an odd colour cast on daylight footage; The middle third of the image was a slightly different colour to the left and right thirds. Only subtly, like a less saturated green on the lawn it was pointed at. Anyone else had that issue?

It's very prone to false triggers. It seems to take video after video after video until the memory card is full with nothing to show bar the occasional moth. I could put that down to swaying of trees on some occasions, but not on the last night it was out which was very still.

Then as it turned to morning, all the videos are pink just like the one gramps posted. Which seems to be a fault it developed (after only a few days!) because it didn't to it before.

Oh, and the 4K videos I took looked very jerky and when I clicked on properties on them, they are only 10 fps.

So it's going back.
 
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I wish I'd seen this thread a week ago before I ordered an Apeman H70.

It did capture a hedgehog on its second night out in the garden which was a pleasant surprise to us in our urban location.

Things have gone downhill since then. I noticed an odd colour cast on daylight footage; The middle third of the image was a slightly different colour to the left and right thirds. Only subtly, like a less saturated green on the lawn it was pointed at. Anyone else had that issue?

It's very prone to false triggers. It seems to take video after video after video until the memory card is full with nothing to show bar the occasional moth. I could put that down to swaying of trees on some occasions, but not on the last night it was out which was very still.

Then as it turned to morning, all the videos are pink just like the one gramps posted. Which seems to be a fault it developed (after only a few days!) because it didn't to it before.

Oh, and the 4K videos I took looked very jerky and when I clicked on properties on them, they are only 10 fps.

So it's going back.
Sorry to hear your disappointment, my first thought was that I had a bad one but it's clearly that the product is just not up to the job.
 
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Plenty of action last night and what looked like discord in the family amongst the youngsters, with mum intervening.
However up until now we have only ever seen two cubs, including two along with both adults which we took to be the family group, yet in this video clip it seems that there were three cubs in the garden (watch for eyes glowing in the background too).
As we have only ever seen two before and with the obvious discord, I am wondering ... was this a third cub from the family that we just haven't seen before, or was it a cub from another family.
What do you think?


 
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I wish I'd seen this thread a week ago before I ordered an Apeman H70.

It did capture a hedgehog on its second night out in the garden which was a pleasant surprise to us in our urban location.

Things have gone downhill since then. I noticed an odd colour cast on daylight footage; The middle third of the image was a slightly different colour to the left and right thirds. Only subtly, like a less saturated green on the lawn it was pointed at. Anyone else had that issue?

It's very prone to false triggers. It seems to take video after video after video until the memory card is full with nothing to show bar the occasional moth. I could put that down to swaying of trees on some occasions, but not on the last night it was out which was very still.

Then as it turned to morning, all the videos are pink just like the one gramps posted. Which seems to be a fault it developed (after only a few days!) because it didn't to it before.

Oh, and the 4K videos I took looked very jerky and when I clicked on properties on them, they are only 10 fps.

So it's going back.
I think one of the causes of blank videos is that the still photo area is bigger vertically than the video and movement which is off camera on video still starts the video — I noticed this when taking video + still and would see a blackbird, for example at the lower margin of the still but nothing on the video. I admit this is only a guess :(.
 
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Plenty of action last night and what looked like discord in the family amongst the youngsters, with mum intervening.
However up until now we have only ever seen two cubs, including two along with both adults which we took to be the family group, yet in this video clip it seems that there were three cubs in the garden (watch for eyes glowing in the background too).
As we have only ever seen two before and with the obvious discord, I am wondering ... was this a third cub from the family that we just haven't seen before, or was it a cub from another family.
What do you think?


More interesting interactions :)! ”Quality” is good too.
 
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I think one of the causes of blank videos is that the still photo area is bigger vertically than the video and movement which is off camera on video still starts the video — I noticed this when taking video + still and would see a blackbird, for example at the lower margin of the still but nothing on the video. I admit this is only a guess :(.
Yes I can see how that can happen, but I set the camera to 30 sec clips with a 2 minute gap and when I retrieved the files, the time stamps were almost exactly every 2 and a half minutes, so it just kept shooting a new video as soon as it could, nothing was there, except one clip in the morning with a squirrel running across the frame.
 
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Sorry to hear your disappointment, my first thought was that I had a bad one but it's clearly that the product is just not up to the job.
I had been looking at the Browning ones on nature spy originally, but wavered and went for the cheaper option from Amazon, mainly because I didn't know if I was going to find anything in my back yard to justify the cost. Lesson learnt.
 
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I had been looking at the Browning ones on nature spy originally, but wavered and went for the cheaper option from Amazon, mainly because I didn't know if I was going to find anything in my back yard to justify the cost. Lesson learnt.
If you do decide to continue I can certainly recommend the Browning.
 
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Thanks I might go for one. Is it the recon force edge you have?
Yes it is, NatureSpy class it as the best video capability available.
One thing that almost put me off was the max 20 secs at night but I set it at the minimum delay (under 1 sec) to re-activate if it detects movement. It is so good that sometimes you can barely detect that it has switched from one clip to another ... not always of course.
I would say that the only negative is an audible 'click' when it activates, I took this up with NatureSpy and they said it does improve over time. In truth the animals rarely ever notice it and it certainly doesn't interfere with their activity.

It also has a 'no card - no start' default so you can't do what I did a couple of times with the H70 and put it out intending to put the card in later ... and forget!
 
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I wish I'd seen this thread a week ago before I ordered an Apeman H70.

It did capture a hedgehog on its second night out in the garden which was a pleasant surprise to us in our urban location.

Things have gone downhill since then. I noticed an odd colour cast on daylight footage; The middle third of the image was a slightly different colour to the left and right thirds. Only subtly, like a less saturated green on the lawn it was pointed at. Anyone else had that issue?

It's very prone to false triggers. It seems to take video after video after video until the memory card is full with nothing to show bar the occasional moth. I could put that down to swaying of trees on some occasions, but not on the last night it was out which was very still.

Then as it turned to morning, all the videos are pink just like the one gramps posted. Which seems to be a fault it developed (after only a few days!) because it didn't to it before.

Oh, and the 4K videos I took looked very jerky and when I clicked on properties on them, they are only 10 fps.

So it's going back.

Very fast triggers on trail cameras can be a problem. They detect something and very quickly trigger the camera to record and sometimes the animal has left the scene so you get, as you've seen, empty videos. However, having too slow a trigger can also be a problem. On our trail camera videos can often start with even quite slow moving animals right in the middle of the scene, as if it had just teleported in.

The camera use passive infra red detectors that react to changes in the amount of IR light(rather than movement) in the scene. When an animal walks into the sensor range its heat triggers the sensor and the camera, hopefully, captures it.

If it was very windy and the top and bottom surface of leaves reflected different amount of IR light then the camera might be triggered but usually that doesn't happen.

Dave
 
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The 'Thieving Magpies' (nicking from my mealworm feeder) have done well in raising three lively chicks. :)


Aren't they just full of character? Around here it is almost as if magpies have a sixth sense for spotting live mealworms.

Dave
 
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Very fast triggers on trail cameras can be a problem. They detect something and very quickly trigger the camera to record and sometimes the animal has left the scene so you get, as you've seen, empty videos. However, having too slow a trigger can also be a problem. On our trail camera videos can often start with even quite slow moving animals right in the middle of the scene, as if it had just teleported in.

The camera use passive infra red detectors that react to changes in the amount of IR light(rather than movement) in the scene. When an animal walks into the sensor range its heat triggers the sensor and the camera, hopefully, captures it.

If it was very windy and the top and bottom surface of leaves reflected different amount of IR light then the camera might be triggered but usually that doesn't happen.

Dave
I think that the quality of the camera makes a lot of difference.
I set my Browning to re-activate after 1 sec (it is reported to actually be 0.6 sec) and from last nights 60 x video clips only 2 were 'vacant'. The PIR on the Browning is superb, it sees the movement of a heat source (which the PIR looks for) and immediately triggers the camera ... the Apeman H70 gave me quite a number of 'false' or 'late' triggers.

Last night we again saw the third cub and, as before, there was a squabble!
I am of the view that the third cub is not a member of the original family, though of course could be wrong ... behaviour just seems to be different than the others together.

 
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Yes I can see how that can happen, but I set the camera to 30 sec clips with a 2 minute gap and when I retrieved the files, the time stamps were almost exactly every 2 and a half minutes, so it just kept shooting a new video as soon as it could, nothing was there, except one clip in the morning with a squirrel running across the frame.
I keep to the minimum 5 second gap between clips and find an empty clip is often followed by one containing the source of the previous trigger (often the neighbours cat or a bird that was just out of frame on the first clip). Repeated empty triggers are usually caused by vegetation blowing in the wind and triggering the PIR, once again, this the offender can be just out of view so you can't see it (a branch or plant by the side or just underneath the camera but slightly in front of it), in which case, moving the camera to another position or removing the vegetation are the only options.

As for trail cams, for the £34 to £60 I paid for my H55s I've been happy enough with their performance, particularly the two I bought early last year, bearing in mind that mine might one day get stolen. If potentially losing a camera wasn't a risk then I'd buy from the Browning range as I believe they're the best quality for money at the moment. I think there might be a new 2020 model coming out some time this year, so it might be worth having a chat with Nature Spy and seeing if there's much difference and whether or not the 20 second clip limit has been increased?
 
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I think that the quality of the camera makes a lot of difference.
I set my Browning to re-activate after 1 sec (it is reported to actually be 0.6 sec) and from last nights 60 x video clips only 2 were 'vacant'. The PIR on the Browning is superb, it sees the movement of a heat source (which the PIR looks for) and immediately triggers the camera ... the Apeman H70 gave me quite a number of 'false' or 'late' triggers.

Last night we again saw the third cub and, as before, there was a squabble!
I am of the view that the third cub is not a member of the original family, though of course could be wrong ... behaviour just seems to be different than the others together.

Agree. We don't get many empty videos but as I said above the camera suffers from a delay in triggering and we can have no idea where the animal came from.

Great video of the cubs squabbling.

Dave
 
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Hiya Roger, more fascinating footage. Buddy I've noticed something at home, I think repeat think,one might ID a cub by the black (darker) markings that run down each side of the face. I can see a difference in two of the cubs that come here. I should have three. Because knowing each individual is so tricky and we haven't seen all of them together for a while , I'm unsure if the smallest is still alive. I have noticed this difference in their faces though,which might just help you with your theory about one cub being from a different family. Personally I think you are on the money ,but it would be lovely to be sure.

They are a bit squabbly:D are they not. We even watched a cub tell mum off really snapped at her,fair play it was his food but even so,that surprised me

Roger have you learnt of any patterns in their behaviour ie regular times of visit...stuff like that?

Anyway mate just a little off the wall thing that might be of use. to you I can't say it's a sure way of ID,lol just something we picked up on this last couple of days

take care

stu
 
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I keep to the minimum 5 second gap between clips and find an empty clip is often followed by one containing the source of the previous trigger (often the neighbours cat or a bird that was just out of frame on the first clip). Repeated empty triggers are usually caused by vegetation blowing in the wind and triggering the PIR, once again, this the offender can be just out of view so you can't see it (a branch or plant by the side or just underneath the camera but slightly in front of it), in which case, moving the camera to another position or removing the vegetation are the only options.

As for trail cams, for the £34 to £60 I paid for my H55s I've been happy enough with their performance, particularly the two I bought early last year, bearing in mind that mine might one day get stolen. If potentially losing a camera wasn't a risk then I'd buy from the Browning range as I believe they're the best quality for money at the moment. I think there might be a new 2020 model coming out some time this year, so it might be worth having a chat with Nature Spy and seeing if there's much difference and whether or not the 20 second clip limit has been increased?
I think that the H55 is a more reliable cam than the H70, if the H55 had the video quality and even IR of the H70 it would be great.
The current Browning Recon Force Edge is marked as "2020".

Agree. We don't get many empty videos but as I said above the camera suffers from a delay in triggering and we can have no idea where the animal came from.

Great video of the cubs squabbling.

Dave
Thanks :)

Hiya Roger, more fascinating footage. Buddy I've noticed something at home, I think repeat think,one might ID a cub by the black (darker) markings that run down each side of the face. I can see a difference in two of the cubs that come here. I should have three. Because knowing each individual is so tricky and we haven't seen all of them together for a while , I'm unsure if the smallest is still alive. I have noticed this difference in their faces though,which might just help you with your theory about one cub being from a different family. Personally I think you are on the money ,but it would be lovely to be sure.

They are a bit squabbly:D are they not. We even watched a cub tell mum off really snapped at her,fair play it was his food but even so,that surprised me

Roger have you learnt of any patterns in their behaviour ie regular times of visit...stuff like that?

Anyway mate just a little off the wall thing that might be of use. to you I can't say it's a sure way of ID,lol just something we picked up on this last couple of days

take care

stu
Thanks Stu, I'll watch out for the face markings, I've looked at fur markings but I'm barking up the wrong tree there.
The dog fox is always the first to appear, he used to come around 6pm now it's more likely to be 8-9pm ... not sure if that's just due to lighter nights and me putting out food later to avoid it being taken by gulls.
The rest will visit regularly through the night but rarely much after 4am, sometimes they feed, plat or just wander around the garden but sometimes thet are just passing straight through en route to somewgere else.
Unfortunately the camera can't cover the whole garden so I am missing a chunk of activity ... do I want to spend another £170? :thinking:
 
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I can guarantee £170 is easier than being up all night ready to move a camera so you don't miss anything, so I'm guessing yes you do want to spend another lot of dosh:LOL:

Meh one life live it:) To the best of my knowledge no dog fox is visiting us. Cheers on the times, I was curious as to what, if any, rough patterns there are, to the visits. I think we are starting to see some . mum comes first about midnight to 1AM cubs tend to follow her a little while after or she comes back with them. I wonder if the adults scout a place before bringing the cubs,that seems to be happening with both of us? We ten seem to get another set around 3AM through to daylight. i've only seen one cub here in daylight since that first visit when I nabbed a few frames

As I say I don't know whether the face markings are unique, just something we have noticed. it might just be of help.

Mate I need some form of crash course in video editing posting, well everything really. Any ideas,you just might have some if not no worries;) Lol I haven't a clue as of yet god this is a steep learniing curve:LOL:

many thanks

stu.
 
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Mate I need some form of crash course in video editing posting, well everything really. Any ideas,you just might have some if not no worries;) Lol I haven't a clue as of yet god this is a steep learniing curve:LOL:

many thanks

stu.
I'm now using movavi and uploading to youtube. :)
 
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Funny I went from here to the video section and read through your thread there;) thanks, for the above. i'm more than a little bewildered at how different video is compared to stills through the same camera Roger :D Hey ho onwards and upwards
 
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Funny I went from here to the video section and read through your thread there;) thanks, for the above. i'm more than a little bewildered at how different video is compared to stills through the same camera Roger :D Hey ho onwards and upwards
Yes Stu, I was using Videopad Free only to find it's not free it's a trial then £85!
The GoPro one in that thread works too but Movavi has more useable features, the Serif one I still couldn'y trach the download link.
 
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Thanks buddy i'm getting there footage wise, vixen seems more comfy with the lights each night.I think the vids look ok bar POV and dodgey DOP Got her alone for ages and a cub briefly this night gone,but I haven't a clue what i'm doing, :LOL: i'll look into the above. there is a base editor from canon, but bar clip viewing and cutting and an option to make stills ,it doesn't seem to do alot,mind as above my head is spinning.

Roger, a question......... if I set up a trail cam with lights, at night would it film in colour?

Cheers again
 
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Thanks buddy i'm getting there footage wise, vixen seems more comfy with the lights each night.I think the vids look ok bar POV and dodgey DOP Got her alone for ages and a cub briefly this night gone,but I haven't a clue what i'm doing, :LOL: i'll look into the above. there is a base editor from canon, but bar clip viewing and cutting and an option to make stills ,it doesn't seem to do alot,mind as above my head is spinning.

Roger, a question......... if I set up a trail cam with lights, at night would it film in colour?

Cheers again
Stu, the trailcam (night mode) operates via a photocell to switch to IR as light levels drop.
If there is insufficient light to fool the photocell then it wouldn't work and would possibly mess up the footage.
If you create enough light that the photocell is fooled then you should be fine but bear in mind that the photocell will monitor close to the camera, so bright light 25 yards away possibly wouldn't cut it.

It takes time for the animals to feel 'at home' in your location, my initial visits were brief and cautious, now they are much more frequent and generally very relaxed.
 
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Thanks Roger that's a great help. I have them feeding now feet from lights so it might work. My vixen will never relax,but that's as it should be. That said i'm making 10 15min long clips now,so she's as settled as can be . The light introduction has been less invasive than I thought , sure I've been slow and careful,but I thought she would be really scared by them and it turns out she isn't really. .

I'm not getting the fabulous interactions you are as yet,but definitely making progress thanks for the help, mate.
 
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Thanks Roger that's a great help. I have them feeding now feet from lights so it might work. My vixen will never relax,but that's as it should be. That said i'm making 10 15min long clips now,so she's as settled as can be . The light introduction has been less invasive than I thought , sure I've been slow and careful,but I thought she would be really scared by them and it turns out she isn't really. .

I'm not getting the fabulous interactions you are as yet,but definitely making progress thanks for the help, mate.
Give it time Stu, 'my' vixen is the most cautious of all the visitors, initially she wouldn't touch the food although she obviously wanted it and would stretch to sniff it.
Then she would pick up bits that had been dropped/knocked to the floor but she would never take from the feed tray ... she now takes from the feed tray but she is still very cautious in doing so.

 
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Give it time Stu, 'my' vixen is the most cautious of all the visitors, initially she wouldn't touch the food although she obviously wanted it and would stretch to sniff it.
Then she would pick up bits that had been dropped/knocked to the floor but she would never take from the feed tray ... she now takes from the feed tray but she is still very cautious in doing so.


Yeah I remember that:D well i've been littering up your thread from the beginning so I would wouldn't I:LOL: It is all about time, I agree, frankly it's going better than I thought ,

I really thought putting lights on them would be something very hard to do especially as the light need to be so close to the subject, . Ok, I stuffed a table lamp out for maybe a week before the leds went out,to start the process, but it's fair to say things are going much better than expected .

Softly softly catchy foxy;)
 
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Less activity over the last couple of nights, just 24 clips last night and not many long stays.
I am wondering if the cubs are begining to be chased off by the adults ... could that be why there was a third cub for a couple of nights, chased off by its parents and trying to join another group?
Last night there was a brief moment with two cubs alone but later a single cub with the Vixen and the actions of the cub were very different, very submissive and avoiding the Vixen, as though feeling the need to be there but worried at what might happen.
This is very different behaviour ... or was it just because of the heavy rain?
On the plus side, the Vixen is much more willing to feed from the food tray now.




On a side note, I notice that the Apeman H70 is now marked as "Currently unavailable." at Amazon and with no estimate of stock date.
 
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I don't think they are going to drive them off roger,not just yet, i think what you are seeing is them being weaned???? I think i'm seeing the same. Her relationshiip is changing slightly and she's probably had a guts full of nursing . I suspect young 'un has just had a clattering and that's the above behaviour cause.

.
 
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I don't think they are going to drive them off roger,not just yet, i think what you are seeing is them being weaned???? I think i'm seeing the same. Her relationshiip is changing slightly and she's probably had a guts full of nursing . I suspect young 'un has just had a clattering and that's the above behaviour cause.

.
I hope so Stu or I'm going to have a surplus of fox & badger food! :oops: :$
 
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and i'll be in an equal amount of hardship as I'm midway through the front door mod:banghead: . Ahh for once lets just both hope I'm right, it would make a change for starters;) but more importantly we can both keep moving forwards . :D I'm downloading Davinci resolve Roger ( ok trying to) I'm going to start my editing journey there ,maybe one day you'll actually see some results from all this mayhem i've created at home...Ya never know stranger things have happened :)
 
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and i'll be in an equal amount of hardship as I'm midway through the front door mod:banghead: . Ahh for once lets just both hope I'm right, it would make a change for starters;) but more importantly we can both keep moving forwards . :D I'm downloading Davinci resolve Roger ( ok trying to) I'm going to start my editing journey there ,maybe one day you'll actually see some results from all this mayhem i've created at home...Ya never know stranger things have happened :)
Wow Davinci Resolve ... all the best with that, steep learning curve, I would be still on my first video!
Look forward to seeing some of your footage though. :)
 
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With my abilities in post ,please don't hold your breath :LOL: I absolutely haven't a clue what i'm doing Roger but I'm getting some footage that I feel is worth putting myself through the mill a bit for to work out how to share it . But Yeah, I'm going to struggle !!

I'm REALLY excited now Roger i've managed to film mum and cub these last couple of nights but the POV is horrible and through glass but I'm winning Mind I'm picky about POV I guess others might not have bothered going further The front door mod is done all out of scrap stuff smaller window for viewing and a nice big hole at base to make images through. Used an old dark green thick heavy skirt as a snood to go around lens and hide any light from back of camera and hopefully movement. I've just got to work out a way to hold snood around lens hood and I'm good to go. The fake door can't be opened from outside and obviously i'm unsure whether the foxes will react ,I suspect not. We'll see. Ha, house conversion( front side ) to full blown wildlife hide complete

get in:D
 
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